Memories.....

[Jagadananda]

I would be interested to hear my senior godbrothers memories of the early days in ISKCON. Particularly the day to day operations, functions,etc. How indepth was the teaching? How often did you engage in public sankirtan? What were the basic duties of the temple president? the pujari? How was your time spent each day?

 

 

Also, if anyone can tell me anything about the history of the former ISKCON center in Cincinnati,Ohio that would be nice too.

 

Thank you for your kindness and patience.

 

 

 

[Priitaa]

WOW A lot of questions.

 

Hope its ok if I reply, since I am not a godbrother, but a godsister.

 

Not sure what you mean by, 'how indepth were the teachings,' but IMHO, more indepth than they are now!

 

How often did we engage in public sankirtana? Every day!

 

I won't say a lot about the duties of the temple president, but even he was suppose to go out on skp daily, tho often he skirted it. lol But eventaully got called up on that. And I suppose it depends on which temple someone was living in.

 

Again, not sure what you mean by, 'what were the duties of the pujari?' To take care of the Deities of course.

 

Time spent each day? Well, everyone would rise no later than 4 a.m., and many rose earlier to get started on their japa, or in some cases to chant extra rounds. Mongala was 4:30 a.m. and ALL attended - and every bit of it. Some had duties during it (like the Pujari dressing the Deities, or the cooks, or devotees would would do 'cut up' of vegetables, etc), but the majority of devotees were mostly attending the program. Even those with duties were in the mood of the morning program, and as soon as their duty was completed, would join us.

 

After the morning prgram there were chores. Then breakfast. Then going out on sankirtana - usually book distribution. Then stopping to take lunch and returning to sankirtana until about 6 p.m. or so. Had to be back in time for the evening prgram, which we were. This was a little more sparce than the morning program (these days its the other way around!), but enough came.

 

Sunday was a little different. Usually we went out on Hari Nama that day instead of book distribution (tho not always), and we returned much earlier so we could attend the Sunday Feast.

 

After that, hot milk, maha prasad, a little Krishna book, then take rest.

 

Next day, start it all over.

 

It was bliss. Not everything, or everyone, was perfect, but the program itself was bliss.

 

Sorry, don't know much about the Cincinnati Oh temple, tho I did live in Clevland for a while. That temple also followed what I typed above. Mostly, they all did.

 

Maybe you are looking for unique or transcendental stories?

 

[ancient_paztriot]

Very nice Priitaa. That was my experience too.

 

There were certainly alot of very dedicated devotees at that time. I remember seeing KC in alot of them. Whether a sankirtana devotee returning from the front lines, or a fired-up pujari in the morning program or dancing devotees, I saw alot of nice devotional moods.

 

At times, I could swear I could see the Bhagavatam in them. The Bhagavatam is all about devotees and the Lord. Devotees had their different KC moments where there appeared to be samadhi and just watching them was a lesson in devotional service.

 

Most everyone was satisfied with their religious taste or 'proof' in those early years.

 

He he. Everyone wanted Prabhupada's energy!

[Priitaa]

Yes, things were so different back then. Devotees were completely immersed in Krishna to such a degree sometimes we thought we heard the nondevotees say something Krishna conscious. ha For example, I remember one godsister said that whlie out on sankirtana, she could have sworn (but knows it was not fact) she heard one nondevotee say to another, "Did you go to Bhagavatam class this morning?" LOL We were getting purified to such a degree that this is how our minds worked.

 

Times have changed, but times can change again.

[Jagadananda]

Priitaaji,

PAMHO. Thank you so much for sharing. I guess I am trying to understand the mood, the atmosphere, in hopes of catching a fleeting glimpse of what it must have been like.

 

And I truly apologize for not including my wonderful god-sisters, since I know that each of you have contributed so very much to Prabhupadas mission.

 

My interest in the Cincinnati temple is due to the fact that this is where I first became interested and familiar with Vaisnavism. I was in the punk scene, and the devotees had such wonderful prasadam every Sunday. While at first it was just for the free food, I can testify to the fact that the prasadam has a purifying effect, since eventually I came to enjoy kirtan and studying Srila Prabhupadas books. I so desperately miss the association of the devotees.

 

My memories of that temple are wonderful and uplifting, as I'm sure yours are of the early days.

 

Again, thank you so very much for sharing with me.

 

Hare Krsna,

Jagadananda Gauranga Dasa

[Guest guest]

I am curious about the Cincinatti Temple you attended. What year was this? I never really knew that there was an established Temple there, although I had heard stories of Sankirtana parties going there on occasion and perhaps renting a house for a few months, holding Sunday Feasts while they were there. I had heard that there was a temporary preaching center there back in 1977, perhaps organized by devotees from the Radha Damodhara Travelling Sankirtana Party. Do you remember any of the devotees from that Temple, by chance? I have heard that Louisville Kentucky was similar in that from time to time devotees would go there and preach and do Sankirtan for a few months, then move on. Cincinatti seems like it would be a great place to establish a Temple. It is a major city, and there aren't many other Temples in that area.

 

Bhakta Dan

[Govindaram]

Not meaning to spoil this thread, or be offensive, since I'm not face-to-face with anybody so you can't give me a slap, (ahem), but aren't you all devotees just thinking of the good times (and thats all), but it seems maybe, just maybe that you are saying the Iskcon now is not 'with it', I mean just because it was ok for you then doesn't mean that new devotees or even old can't feel the same thing, thinking about the good old days is cool, but anyway, i hope i made myself clear, (my point i mean), any thoughts?, again I mean no offence, hare krsna

[Priitaa]

Govindaram prabhu,

 

I can't speak for others, but I myself most definitely feel the movement aint what it use to be. There are various things one could use as a barometer to test it. An important one is how the temple room was so filled back then during Mongala Aroti that sometimes there wasn't much room! Whereas these days, plenty of room, not everyone attends, and the Evening Program is more likely to get a higher attendance then the Morning program! That is just one example. Then there is the vast degree that book distribution dropped. Even when it gradually began to increase, it came nowhere near what it use to be. Prabhupada's presence charged the atmosphere with spiriutal eneryg! Things were different back than. But I really don't want to change the mood of the thread. Matter of fact, with all I feel on this topic, I simultaneously believe anything can be turned around. We can experience that again! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Therefore yes, I do believe the new devotees, etc., can still feel the bliss.

[yasodanandana]

1)the departure of the acharya

2)the fact that all that joining at the temple was good because authorized and favoured by prabhupada, but it was an emergency, a special help to give to the pure devotee.

Now the right thing is to put the focus on varnashrama, then gradually, when we will have devotees in any social class, well situated in their "karma-bhakti yoga" we will see surely the temple filled with real brahmacharyas attending to a real gurukula... someone remaining as monk for the lifetime, and happy and sober grihastas visiting and happy to help with work and donations

 

i remember the disappearance movie:.. srila prabhupada in the translation/comment of the srimad bhagavatam, in his "death"bed, only few days before disappearing, could have spoken on any higly esoteric subject, but, no.. he stressed on varnashrama... "varnashrama is essential...."

 

in my ignorance i consider varnashrama, collaboration between devotees and the peace and union with the other gaudya maths his final instructions

 

i am not at all advanced, maybe i am not at all competent to have an opinion on srila prabhupada... so, please, forgive my offences to you and to our jagad guru

[cRimAl]

This thread almost has a depressing ring to it.

 

And I think there's another problem also: back in the days the movement seemed to accept people way more easily than is the case nowadays which is often a cop out for a lot of new devotees. I hate to say that but I have seen tons of kids getting into KC with a lot of enthousiasm only to be treated like . by other devotees, and ofcourse this makes them leave the movement and in a lot of cases even spirituality. I personaly can testify for that. A lot of temples really aren't that inviting...

 

And ofcourse there's also the whole politics issue which hasn't done much good imho.

 

Anyways, I sure do love to hear about 'the old days'.

 

 

[ancient_paztriot]

This is for you and Prittaa.

 

This occurred in the Atlanta temple one morning a few months before Prabhuada left back in '77.

 

Devotees had gathered early before Prabhupada or Tulasi puja (can't remember which) and it was crowded.

 

In comes a very young, immaculate looking bramacari with the offering tray. But this was not an ordinary scene. The boy was glowing like a god. Everyone was awed. He seemed to not be aware of us, yet when the offerings would in turn be offered to the crowd, it seemed so perfect. And he could see right through you. The whole ceremony seemed like something transplanted from another time. It was quite surreal. To witness his movements and associated consciousness was nothing short of spell-binding… the energy was electric!

 

I was definately a highlight in my life. And I noticed others were impressed too. His movements, his mood, everything just seemed so transcendental! This young pujari was not functioning in the way the mind normally contemplates affairs, he was showing the perfection Prabhupada so often did. It's like witnessing life on or in another dimension through the window of this person.

 

So it was my good fortune to see this deep and inspiring spiritual energy appear on various devotees during my time in ISKCON. I had the misfortune of not seeing Prabhupada (except through video).

[Kulapavana]

I have been an ISKCON member for 25 years. Some things in the past were great (as listed in previous posts) some were downright scarry, such as videspread devotee manipulation, abuse of power (and devotees!) by authorities and general "brainwashing" passing as Vaishnava philosophy. You have to remember it all.

 

Past is only relevant if you want to learn from it. It has no "romantic" value.

[Priitaa]

Ancient Patriot,

 

Thank you for that story! That was an excellent example of what it was like. You probably don't remember his name, but would be cool if you could. That way we could contact him and ask what he was thinking at the time. Tho I bet I know - about Prabhupada! /images/graemlins/smile.gif And so often, we had such experiences!

 

When you wrote "glowing like a god," it triggered a thought. I remembered that once Prabhupada's commented Narada Muni had joined our Sankirtana Party. Also in England that Lord Shiva was attending the aroti's, therefore he had us build for him (Shiva) a vyasana!

 

Kulapavana,

 

"some were downright scarry, such as videspread devotee manipulation, abuse of power (and devotees!) by authorities and general "brainwashing" passing as Vaishnava philosophy."

 

You mean that has stopped? /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

"You have to remember it all."

 

I think the unsaid point is (and so now I will say it) these other things that were not nice, not good, not right, they were also not Krishna consciousness.

 

"Past is only relevant if you want to learn from it. It has no "romantic" value. "

 

I dont consider anything transcendal from the past to be in the category of romantic. Otherwise, so would be the reading of Sukadeva Goswami, etc. Prabhupada as pure devotee always offers transcendental feelings which we can advance from, even in this time and space.

[ancient_paztriot]

What would really help in understanding history is 'understanding' the feelings that motivated it. Even to empathize and understand the anger, lust, greed and numerous irrational insanities that people experience - as you pointed out - would provide real experience to knowledge gleaned from the mistakes - and sometimes fortunes - of others.

 

Actually, I think the literature involved in Prabhupada's efforts do just that better than anything else.

 

Of coarse we have our own experience. We tend to ignore our own faults and see the faults in others. I don't see anybody making progress with that… certainly not the offensive Guests. We can't understand the problems of history if we are determined to do the same.

 

How has modern science or any institution learned from the past? With all this official history and so-called evidence, what have we learned?

 

Obviously, our own desires can block our vision. We will not recognize our faults (or maybe how we imitate others) if our own imperative is the position of our mind. We might even see slavery and the decimation of the American Indians as necessary for the right people to rule (or now it's the Iraqis). We have to be sensitive and empathize.

 

History contains GOOD and bad, like anything else. I'll be sentimental and NOSTALGIC about the good. It's fast disappearing.

 

I'll certainly be sentimental AND ROMANTIC in my mind about my KC experiences in which Krsna revealed things to me. IT WAS THE FEELING AND EMOTION OF THAT EXPERIENCE which have no comparisons and which are more real to me than you.

 

I'm not attacking or insinuating anything personally. That would be stupid and wrong. It's just a fleeting philosophical thought as I practice.

 

I too have alot of resentment against ISKCON. Any serious person would. I'm talking KC and not any institution (Theist would be proud of me).

 

I want to serve ISKCON by my website because I KNOW that's a service to Prabhupada (I'm tryiing to promote the knowledge, not the ignorance you exposed). I will not be promoting the guru propaganda. That's all in Prabhupada's writings and I have designed the website to reflect the disciplic succession - abstractly. Beyond that, I'm uncommitted.) I am trying to be honest and not hypocritic. Therefore, there is no mention of me either.

 

If you have positive ideas outside of ISKCON, I support you. Let's see some action. Just reveal to me some solution. What positive thing do you have to offer?

 

Help Me Through the Night

 

Somewhere along the way

I found the meaning

Woke up dreaming

Along the way

Never quite seems the same

When you awaken

And making up for the time

Is such a price to pay

Then they take your dream away

And it just ain't fair

 

So help me thru the night, mama

Help me to ease the pain

And tell me it's alright

Help me thru the night

Once again

 

That's the danger in pretending

Trying to defend yourself

From someone else's war

Don't know what they're fighting for

And they just don't care

 

So help me to see the light, mama

Open my eyes again

And tell me it's alright

Help me thru the night

Once again

Ooh, defend me... - Joe Walsh

[Jagadananda]

I guess it could just as well have been a preaching center. However, it was a large victorian house on McMillan Avenue only two blocks from the university. This would have been 1986-1988 or 89. I have no idea how long it had existed before I became aware of it. They had deities installed there as well. They held regular Sunday programs as well as sankirtans. At one time there were about 5 or 6 devotees living there. I can remember Chandramauli Swami, Srutadev dasa, another devotee who shares my name (Jagadananda),and African American devotee who seemed to have a perpetual broken leg, and several female devotees whose names I honestly do not recall. There were frequent visits from Kirtanananda Swami and Radhanatha Swami. After Kirtanananda Swami was removed from ISKCON it became a Interfaith League of Devotees center and quickly failed. There was one more attempt by Chandramauli Swami to set up the League at another local location, but by then the people who attended ISKCON activities were totally turned off to Kirtanananda Swami's methods.

 

My friend Lee actually became a devotee when it was still ISKCON and lived there and at New Vrindavan for awhile.

 

It was from there that I took a trip with the devotees to New Vrindavan myself.

 

As for this being a good area for a temple, I have wanted to establish something here for a long time now. There are a few devotees here, but I think without the support of devotees from elsewhere with sankirtan parties, or initial help with programs it seems an overwhelming proposition.

 

However, having said that I'm trying to do something in my home presently.

 

Anybody care to help?

 

Hare Krsna,

Jagadananda Gauranga Dasa

[ancient_paztriot]

I don't understand all this criticism without a viable spiritual solution. Personal formulas have never worked. They never will.

[cRimAl]

ancient paztriot...and the others...THANX for these stories. It's awesome...

[Kulapavana]

Priitaa prabhu,

 

My comment was primarily meant to balance the thread. We usually edit our memories, depending on our outlook on the past. I have lots of great memories from the earlier days in but my focus is on the present. There is so much to do! Echoes of the great kirtans from the past are OK but we should make great kirtans every time we meet. As to the abuses, I think the situation is 10x better now, altough not perfect by any stretch. The bad things in the past were certainly not transcendental but were THERE as well. I dont dwell on them but I will never forget them either. We should NOT forget them so they will never be repeated. Some devotees simply create legends in their head and pass them on to newcomers, but I'm not one of them. In many very important ways Lord Caitanya's movement is in much better shape now than it was 25 years ago.

[Kulapavana]

"If you have positive ideas outside of ISKCON, I support you. Let's see some action. Just reveal to me some solution. What positive thing do you have to offer?"

 

Maybe you misunderstood my post. I have no problem working inside ISKCON as this is primarily where I have always been active. I also have no problem with former ISKCON members preaching outside this organization - many of them do a splendid service to the mission and I take dust off their feet. The positive thing I was trying to stress is the need to live and act in the present. This is the practical essence of our philosophy with respect to time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Priitaa]

Kulapavana prabhu,

 

I didn't feel anyone was trying to hide or ignore past abuses or problems, simply that was not the inquiry. After all, ask a devotee about abuse and they will be quick to tell! So I honestly don't feel anybody was trying to present only one side, but rather the transcendental percpetive. We all ready know about the garbage, whereas there is not enough factual info about the spiriutal experiences. Even, many of us have wished a book filled with the experiences of the old devotees would be printed.

 

Also, I understand your point about still coming together to make good kirtans, etc; I feel we can't make good kirtana's or good anything in the present and future, if we don't taste the good kirtana's, etc. of the past.

 

I suspect tho, one reason some view memories as mere 'nostalgia' (which it is not, as that's a material designation) is because they feel since they were unable to be there at the time they missed it, cannot experience it, thus fear they were left out. Therefore I wish to clarify that it is not limited to the past. Time is not linear. Whatever was experienced back then, IMHO can be experienced now. I will agree it may take more work, there is less association of that nature too (but they can be found), and other obstacles may present themselves, but they can be overcome if we want to overcome them. So my understanding of all this is: that which was experienced in the past, can be experienced now. All we have to do is want it, read Prabhuapda's books, and also we need to know what we are looking for - thus the memories. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

When we read about anyones past experiences with Prabhupada or the early Movement, we too are experiencing that! As we read, we get spiriutal feelings, and we are there.

[ancient_paztriot]

So everyone is caught up in this energy. And it's VERY UNIFYING.

 

Funny… maybe an anology would be it's like being baptised together. It magically dissapated alot of barriers between people.

 

Anyway, such moments are over too soon.

 

Some of my best memories are of the kirtans; temple and on the streets.

 

Kulapavana, we were SO SURE then we would save the world. We ended up crying instead.

[Kulapavana]

"we were SO SURE then we would save the world. We ended up crying instead"

 

I know what you mean. I lost hope for some time but it is back now. the work is still there and we can still do it. in a way I'm more optimistic now than I ever was. my only lament is that it may not happen in my lifetime.

[ancient_paztriot]

There is always hope. I couldn't live without it.

 

"… my only lament is that it may not happen in my lifetime."

 

That's my big lament too. It seems like time is running out.

 

If we are engaged in disinterested obligatory devotional service, we are finding our satisfaction in that. The results are up to Krsna. If we do not find a way to be engaged, then Krsna is left with options like nuclear war to strike a balance in nature.

[ancient_paztriot]

I personally, would like to see the Vedic knowledge marketed using all these sophisticated marketing techniques.

 

How about billboards with a big picture of Krsna on it… or verses of the Bhagavad-gita?

 

What are these rich devotees doing anyway?

[Guest guest]

"What are these rich devotees doing anyway? "

 

LOL LOL