Starman Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Hare Krishna, All of me tells me this knowledge is correct and if followed will do what it says it will...liberate us, and position us in our rightful position as eternal, loving servants of God. But at times as I read I come across what 'appear' to be outlandish claims, such as the moon being farther away than the sun, gaurada, and many more. How should I approach these things when my so called logical mind wants to reject these claims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dervish Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Every religion in this world has some so- called "outlandish" claims that current science will try to discount. For instance, Jews and some Christians believe the world was created by God 5,000 or so years ago, and will not yield to any other explanation. Srila Prabhupad once said that the astronauts did not truly go to the moon, but probably Rahu (SB 4. 29. 69p). We have to open ourselves up to the possibility, that perhaps current science, although useful for a lot of things, does not have all the answers, and that all the time, things are being disproven, and new theories are brought forth. Krishna Consciousness is a long process. The process was outlined by Srila Rupa Goswami in the verse below. Even Sraddha is not an easy thing to achieve. adau sraddha tatah sadhu- sango 'tha bhajana-kriya tato 'nartha-nivrttih syat tato nistha rucis tatah athasaktis tato bhavas tatah premabhyudancati sadhakanam ayam premnah pradurbhave bhavet kramah ["In the beginning one must have a preliminary desire for self-realization. This will bring one to the stage of trying to associate with persons who are spiritually elevated. In the next stage one becomes initiated by an elevated spiritual master, and under his instruction the neophyte devotee begins the process of devotional service. By execution of devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master, one becomes free from all material attachment, attains steadiness in self-realization, and acquires a taste for hearing about the Absolute Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna. This taste leads one further forward to attachment for Krsna consciousness, which is matured in bhava, or the preliminary stage of transcendental love of God. Real love for God is called prema, the highest perfectional stage of life. In the prema stage there is constant engagement in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. So, by the slow process of devotional service, under the guidance of the bona fide spiritual master, one can attain the highest stage, being freed from all material attachment, from the fearfulness of one's individual spiritual personality, and from the frustrations that result in voidist philosophy. Then one can ultimately attain to the abode of the Supreme Lord." (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.4.15-16)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Vedas tell us about cities on the Sun. Do you think these sages were so naive as to not know that the Sun was very hot? Life is not limited to carbon based bodies. There is a deeper understanding to Vedic wisdom and it will come to you with time and humble study. I'm a scientist by profession and I have no problem with Vedic concepts, but your understanding of both Vedic wisdom and the world around you must deepen. Hare Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Yes, my mind has to be open to things that inconceivable to me presently....but my mind also wants to bring up to that Galileo suffered much persecution because of his proof that the earth isn't the center of the universe, as the Bible claimed....which leads on to the point of, 'if there's one error in the Bible, then you have to suspect there may be more, so how can you have faith in it?" The same thing might be said of the vedas, and the thought that the moon is farther away than the sun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 That at the beginning of Krishna Consciousness, while reading you can come across something which makes you think, eh? that can't be true, sometimes maybe we are not yet ready for certain info, so we should try to devote time to chanting AND reading, I also may read something and think WHAT?, but there is always an explanation for it, you just have to either believe it in Toto, or try and research more deeply and ask devotees about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dervish Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Haribol! Please show me one verse in the bible that says the earth is the center of the universe. You will not find it. This conclusion was drawn by the leaders of medieval times. The bullies who harassed Galileo had very little scriptural evidence, if any, to justify their harassment. Just like many other things in medieval Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Notice how these people always challenge? They keep challenging and by doing so keep you on the defensive. When defeated they move on to another subject… it's all the same game. If there's nothing we can say to convince them, then why are they interested in staying? The agenda should be getting (crystal) clear. I think it's self-defeating to give them your energy. You'll only get trouble from them. They are, after all, demons… and they are seducing people to play their game. Simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 the distance between moon and earth as described in the Vedas refers to approximate difference between the lunar and earthly plane of existence given for the sake of comparison. it is not the linear distance (which btw changes as the lunar orbit is an elipse). there is even a "distance" given to the end of our universe, yet the same shastra will tell you that you will not be able to reach it even if you travel with the speed of mind. this "distance", again, is NOT linear. many material scientists think that space is not at all linear, but curves on itself, forming an endless loop. well, this is old news for us /images/graemlins/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 "But at times as I read I come across what 'appear' to be outlandish claims, such as the moon being farther away than the sun, gaurada, and many more. " one problem is that we often consider krishna consciousness as a regular religion, a faith in catholic religion there's a prayer "CREDO" (=i believe) when everyone in the church, at every stage of consciousness say that he believe in 1)only one god, 2)omnipotent father 3)god of the sky and the earth and so on with all the dogmas of the catholic christian religion so it does not matter if one has realized or not, if he have studied or not, if he have a teacher or not.. he, simpy, sentimentally.. BELIEVES very often we transfer this kind of mentality (me the first of course) in krishna consciousness and we expect, as neophites, to grasp immediately all the controversial and esoteric things.. we want to believe.. but we can't because it seems illogic but it is not possible, nor requested by the spirituaol authorities, to understand everything at the beginning, it is a school, there's a master and we have to follow the procedure, why not, with the risk to find at last that it is all mythology faith is complete gambling, school is without doubt risky prabhupada, in my opinion, had no problem to explain these scientific points, but at certain point he said "please do not waste time, energies, it is not so important.. follow the complete method, follow the school" obviously i do not want to minimize the doubts and the questions of the practitioneers in krishna consciousness.. but i think that we have to be able to put some little marginal things aside and go deeper in krishna consciousness of course a big scholars or philosophers like srila prabhupada, or sridhara maharaja, bhaktisiddhnata sarasvati maharaja and so on cannot make gross astronomic or scientific errors this in my opinion.... what you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted January 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I agree with what you've said. The idea that it doesn't have to make sense totally to me at this point in time is ok with me...I can understand that. My question was simply HOW to deal with my mind when I come across the 'seeming' wild claims. Thank you for your response it makes sense to me. What does not make sense to me is to be called a 'demon' by one person in here...where did THAT come from? And if it's true that I am a 'demon' what hope is for me then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 There have been alot of pretenders around here recently. They have been VERY offensive and shameless. I think the term demon fits them very well. I am not calling anyone specifically a demon. But if the shoe fits… If it doesn't, then be comfortable with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 "What does not make sense to me is to be called a 'demon' by one person in here...where did THAT come from? And if it's true that I am a 'demon' what hope is for me then?" demon means that we have refused to remain with sri krishna bhagavan in vaikunta.. only a mad demon can do something like that.. so there's no problem, let's quit this world before kalki avatara advent, he's not so sweet as chaitanya mahaprabhu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman Posted January 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 What is the kalki avatara advent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 at the end of this kali yuga (428.000 years from now) krsna as kalki avatara will come http://www.truthconsciousness.org/lightofconsciousness/images/LOC%20KALKI%20lg.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I started a new thread which solves this issue in one stroke. I entitled it Sun and Moon Distance Solved. You can read there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangadhar Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I can't help notice that claiming astronauts went to Rahu as opposed to the moon would sound just as silly to folks who don't believe in the Vedas. To the Vedic believers, Rahu I understood is let's say the "personable shadow" of the moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 If you are truly serious you must first start by executing the instructions of Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita. In a few months you can add to that, but for now you must become more intimate with your soul and Krsna. Collecting a big bag of holy words is not the path. Wrong motivation is sure to kick you away with paradoxes which without Krsna's intimate help will leave you disillusioned. There are many crocodiles in the mind. You need Krsna's help (buddhi-yogam as per BG 10.10). When God becomes more than a word, then you can reach beyond the Gita. The Bhagavad-gita process will make Krsna so real that when He says "Black is white", you will say "Yes, master"; and sure enough in a day or two the process will show you that indeed black can be white. The moon-thing crocodile is slain HERE where we learn that the moon is actually described as higher than the sun, not necessarily farther (higher with respect to the ecliptic plane - spin of the solar system). But please stop crocodile hunting before it is too late. Hunt Krsna first in the Bhagavad-gita. Hunt with your heart exactly as He instructs. SB 3.6.9:<blockquote>This process of transcendental help by the Lord is described in Bhagavad-gItA (10.10) as follows: <center> teSAM satata-yuktAnAM bhajatAM prIti-pUrvakam dadAmi buddhi-yogaM taM yena mAm upayAnti te </center> The buddhi-yoga process of self-realization with intelligence transcendental to the mind (devotional service) can alone elevate one from the conditioned state of material entanglement in the cosmic construction. The conditioned state of the living entity is like that of a person who is within the depths of a huge mechanical arrangement. The mental speculators can reach the point of buddhi-yoga after many, many lifetimes of speculation, but the intelligent person who begins from the platform of intelligence above the mind makes rapid progress in self-realization. Because the buddhi-yoga process entails no fear of deterioration or retrogression at any time, it is the guaranteed path to self-realization, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gItA (2.40). The mental speculators cannot understand that the two birds (SvetAzvatara UpaniSad) sitting in one tree are the soul and the Supersoul. The individual soul eats the fruit of the tree, while the other bird does not eat the fruit but only observes the activities of the eating bird. Without attachment, the witnessing bird helps the fruit-eating bird perform fruitful activities. One who cannot understand this difference between the soul and the Supersoul, or God and the living entities, is certainly still in the entanglement of the cosmic machinery and thus must still await the time when he will be free from bondage.</blockquote> gHari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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