seeing with the eyes of knowledge

February 4, 2004

this is a debate i had with a devotee.

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me

I was reading the comments on the ascending and descending approach or

vision of approach to matters of understanding or transformation of understanding.

It came to me that there really is no such thing as an ascending process or method,

although there is the perception or illusion of that as being real.

I see that as the difference between perception of reality as a manifestation of Paramatma

or reality as a chaotic uncontrolled experience.

What we may percieve as gaining knowledge through the empirical study of anything is really

an illusion,knowledge is always descending into our consciousness,if the method of descent

takes on the form of some external study of words ,images,or concepts from whatever

external source, that is an illusion of ascending knowledge or experience.

Paramatma is the substantive manifestation of control over all aspects of reality our senses and mind

interact with,a book or sound or anything that is relating experience into our cognizant ability

is really always descending,always being spoonfed to us although it may appear that we are the

instigators or controlling the whole affair.

This is supersoul realization,Paramatma realization,When we understand philosophically that all

interactions our consciouness has with reality is under complete and constant manipulation

and control ,then we can appreciate the controller in both the internal and external

world,then everything changes into a world of virtual reality,the world animates and reveals

itself as a living being.

This is not an ascending process even though any form of endeavor can appear to be so,

you need to make some kind of effort to do anything so in that sense you are creating or

manipulating reality in an ascending or controlling way,this of course is an illusion of reality,

in fact there is no way to distinguish reality as real or unreal in any sense without constant

descending participation and empowerment by Paramatma in every sense of our existence.

We think we create thoughts in our mind but this also we discover is a deception of ascending

reality,Our minds when seen clearly are being observed for what they really are,not ourselves,

not under our control nor able to be brought under our control,all control by ourselves in any

way ,shape,or form is illusory ,when this illusion is philosphically defeated within your understanding

then the true nature of reality can show you what reality really is,alive and kicking,everything

we see or hear or think is realized as being what it really is,a constant descending reality into

our awareness,a virtual reality like environment similar to a computer generated environment

where One substance is both "field" of existence and consciousness/controller of that field,

then the world becomes transformed from the "material world" to the spiritual world it really is,

really it is just a matter of understanding matter as spirit.

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her reply

You wrote: “Our minds when seen clearly are being observed for what they really are, not ourselves, not under our control nor able to be brought under our control.” Why then does Krishna say “Higher than the mind is the intelligence and higher than that is the soul”? The mind can be controlled by the living entity “by constant practice and determination.” This is our experience also. Your philosophy it appears is a particular type of theistic voidism, degrading the living entity to zero. It is true that all ability and intelligence come from Krishna, as well as all knowledge. But by the desire of the jiva, this universe is maintained, actually. Paramatma acts in reciprocation with the jiva’s desire, supplying the necessary ingredients for prolonging his stay, or ending it.

When the living entity has too much faith in his faulty senses and lesser faith in God, he chooses the ascending process of gaining knowledge, which will prolong his entrapment. The descending process is distinct, as it requires different faith. Neither require being “spoonfed,” as both require the active participation of the intelligence. Both require knowledge and ability which originates from God. But they are different approaches, with different results, based on different desires and faith. The philosophy of achintya bhedabheda tattva concludes that the soul has all the qualities of God in minute quantity. To negate the Godly qualities, such as the ability to control, or to proclaim the minute quantity as unlimited, are both aberrations of this philosophy.

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my reply

Thank you for your thoughts,although to say that we have no control only

an illusion of control is not an aberration of Gaudiya thought.

We need to understand the nature of the self in relation to the supreme self,

we are consciousness,the mind is not ourselves it is a vehicle for our convienence,

there is only One mind,that is God's mind,we are given access to that mind

to fullfill our desires and make life easy in the conditioned state.

When you read these words a silent voice is reading these words into your

consciousness,that is the mind,that is God,we listen to the mind,everything in

existence is God,but ourselves,we are not the mind,the mind is in fact God.

We cannot control the mind,we have an illusion of control in the conditioned state

of consciousness,try and read these words without that silent voice you hear

'speaking' these words into your awareness as you read,

you will find it to be impossible,as we cannot control

anything,that is the illusion we are under,we desire

control so we are given that illusion.

It is impossible to factually control the mind,WE are consciousness,our mind is not that,our mind is allowing us to experience reality in a comfortable way,but at no time do we actually control the mind,IT controls us.

The practice of yoga in trying to control the mind is for those in the

conditioned state,they are unaware of the true nature of reality so they are advised

to practice controlling the mind by engaging the mind in learning from the

Vedic sources,by this co called control of the mind the sadhaka gains knowledge

of the true nature of the self and our relation to the supreme self,that knowledge

reveals another reality that the practioner is unaware of until he enters into

full knowledge.

That higher reality is only able to be appreciated by those who are able to distinguish

reality from non reality,the process of Yoga is meant to connect you to God we are told,

but upon realization of knowledge from God we realize that we are always connected

to God,So Yoga really doesn't connect you to God instead it awakens the practitioner

to the fact of God's constant presence and your constant oneness and connection

to God,we learn that we are always connected to God,we are just unable to

appreciate absolute reality,we see reality but we do not recognize it for what it really is.

So this concept of self realization means we need to understand what we are and what we are not,

if we identify the mind with ourselves,then we are the same as someone who identifies the

television with the program showing on the television,there is an illusion of control of the mind

because in the ignorant stage a person needs to have that illusion in order to function without

problems.

The self realized seer of absolute truth sees the supreme soul within himself,within his

heart or mind he sees the supreme being,this is the essence of self realization ,we need to

disengage our self identifying with the mind,all that will be left is the supreme soul,

the mind of God.

There is only God and ourselves in the infinite reality,we are pure conscious energy,

everything else is not us,it is God,we cannot control God,although God creates the illusion

of control for our benefit,we think we control our memory for example,but that is also

beyond our ability,memory just appears when God desires regardless of our attempt ,

the attempt to gather a memory is funny if you think about it,what do we do ?

We do nothing but desire,all the rest is supplied or not, depending on God's will.

This is how this reality works everything is being done by God,God is the field and the

controller of the field of existence,we are along for the ride,we are given an illusion of control

but we need to awaken to that illusion,everything is God,we cannot control God,it is really

as simple as that,although it may appear to the conditioned soul that He or She is controlling some

aspect of reality,we need to transcend that illusory conception of the world as seperate from God.

God is comprising everything,when this is fully and completely understood and realized then we

can understand how we have no real control over anything,we cannot control God,

the only thing that we can do is desire,by our desire God manifests a reality that we need

to either fullfill that desire or change that desire,but make no mistake about it,God

is everywhere and everything,we can never control any aspect of God ,when

we fully integrate this knowledge we no longer see reality with blinders on,

our mind and this world reveals it's true nature when we can appreciate the true

nature of reality,God is reality.

God is our mind and everything we are aware of

in our environment ,that awareness is our passport to the spiritual realm,

when we understand and can utilize this spiritual knowledge to be aware of God

within and without,then God appears,everywhere,always,He/She no longer has

to hide from your view.

Bhagavad-gita As It Is 7.4

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego — all together these eight constitute My separated material energies.

purport

This material world is a temporary manifestation of one of the energies of the Lord. All the activities of the material world are directed by these three Visnu expansions of Lord Krsna. These purusas are called incarnations. Generally one who does not know the science of God (Krsna) assumes that this material world is for the enjoyment of the living entities and that the living entities are the purusas — the causes, controllers and enjoyers of the material energy. According to Bhagavad-gita this atheistic conclusion is false.

13.3

TRANSLATION

O scion of Bharata, you should understand that I am also the knower in all bodies, and to understand this body and its knower is called knowledge. That is My opinion.

PURPORT

While discussing the subject of the body and the knower of the body, the soul and the Supersoul, we shall find three different topics of study: the Lord, the living entity, and matter. In every field of activities, in every body, there are two souls: the individual soul and the Supersoul. Because the Supersoul is the plenary expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, Krsna says, "I am also the knower, but I am not the individual knower of the body. I am the superknower. I am present in every body as the Paramatma, or Supersoul."

One who studies the subject matter of the field of activity and the knower of the field very minutely, in terms of this Bhagavad-git, can attain to knowledge.

The Lord says, "I am the knower of the field of activities in every individual body." The individual may be the knower of his own body, but he is not in knowledge of other bodies. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is present as the Supersoul in all bodies, knows everything about all bodies. He knows all the different bodies of all the various species of life. A citizen may know everything about his patch of land, but the king knows not only his palace but all the properties possessed by the individual citizens. Similarly, one may be the proprietor of the body individually, but the Supreme Lord is the proprietor of all bodies. The king is the original proprietor of the kingdom, and the citizen is the secondary proprietor. Similarly, the Supreme Lord is the supreme proprietor of all bodies.

The body consists of the senses. The Supreme Lord is Hrsikesa, Which means "the controller of the senses." He is the original controller of the senses, just as the king is the original controller of all the activities of the state; the citizens are secondary controllers. The Lord says, "I am also the knower." This means that He is the superknower; the individual soul knows only his particular body. In the Vedic literature, it is stated as follows:

ksetrani hi sarirani

bijam capi subhasubhe

tani vetti sa yogatma

atah ksetra-jña ucyate

This body is called the ksetra, and within it dwells the owner of the body and the Supreme Lord, who knows both the body and the owner of the body. Therefore He is called the knower of all fields. The distinction between the field of activities, the knower of activities, and the supreme knower of activities is described as follows. Perfect knowledge of the constitution of the body, the constitution of the individual soul, and the constitution of the Supersoul is known in terms of Vedic literature as jñana. That is the opinion of Krsna. To understand both the soul and the Supersoul as one yet distinct is knowledge. One who does not understand the field of activity and the knower of activity is not in perfect knowledge. One has to understand the position of prakrti (nature), purusa (the enjoyer of nature) and isvara (the knower who dominates or controls nature and the individual soul). One should not confuse the three in their different capacities. One should not confuse the painter, the painting and the easel. This material world, which is the field of activities, is nature, and the enjoyer of nature is the living entity, and above them both is the supreme controller, the Personality of Godhead. It is stated in the Vedic language (in the svetasvatara Upanisad 1.12), bhokta bhogyam preritaram ca matva/ sarvam proktam tri vidham-brahmam etat. There are three Brahman conceptions: prakrti is Brahman as the field of activities, and the jiva (individual soul) is also Brahman and is trying to control material nature, and the controller of both of them is also Brahman, but He is the factual controller.

In this chapter it will also be explained that out of the two knowers, one is fallible and the other is infallible. One is superior and the other is subordinate. One who understands the two knowers of the field to be one and the same contradicts the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who states here very clearly, "I am also the knower of the field of activity." One who misunderstands a rope to be a serpent is not in knowledge. There are different kinds of bodies, and there are different owners of the bodies. Because each individual soul has his individual capacity for lording it over material nature, there are different bodies. But the Supreme also is present in them as the controller. The word ca is significant, for it indicates the total number of bodies. That is the opinion of Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana. Krsna is the Supersoul present in each and every body apart from the individual soul. And Krsna explicitly says here that the Supersoul is the controller of both the field of activities and the finite enjoyer.

13.23

Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul.

PURPORT

It is stated here that the Supersoul, who is always with the individual soul, is the representation of the Supreme Lord. He is not an ordinary living entity. Because the monist philosophers take the knower of the body to be one, they think that there is no difference between the Supersoul and the individual soul. To clarify this, the Lord says that He is represented as the Paramatma in every body. He is different from the individual soul; He is para, transcendental. The individual soul enjoys the activities of a particular field, but the Supersoul is present not as finite enjoyer nor as one taking part in bodily activities, but as the witness, overseer, permitter and supreme enjoyer. His name is Paramatma, not atma, and He is transcendental. It is distinctly clear that the atma and Paramatma are different. The Supersoul, the Paramatma, has legs and hands everywhere, but the individual soul does not. And because the Paramatma is the Supreme Lord, He is present within to sanction the individual soul's desiring material enjoyment. Without the sanction of the Supreme Soul, the individual soul cannot do anything.

13.27

O chief of the Bharatas, know that whatever you see in existence, both the moving and the nonmoving, is only a combination of the field of activities and the knower of the field.

PURPORT

Both material nature and the living entity, which were existing before the creation of the cosmos, are explained in this verse. Whatever is created is but a combination of the living entity and material nature. There are many manifestations like trees, mountains and hills which are not moving, and there are many existences which are moving, and all of them are but combinations of material nature and the superior nature, the living entity. Without the touch of the superior nature, the living entity, nothing can grow. The relationship between matter and nature is eternally going on, and this combination is effected by the Supreme Lord; therefore He is the controller of both the superior and inferior natures. The material nature is created by Him, and the superior nature is placed in this material nature, and thus all these activities and manifestations take place.

13.30

One who can see that all activities are performed by the body, which is created of material nature, and sees that the self does nothing, actually sees.

PURPORT

This body is made by material nature under the direction of the Supersoul, and whatever activities are going on in respect to one's body are not his doing. Whatever one is supposed to do, either for happiness or for distress, one is forced to do because of the bodily constitution. The self, however, is outside all these bodily activities. This body is given according to one's past desires. To fulfill desires, one is given the body, with which he acts accordingly. Practically speaking, the body is a machine, designed by the Supreme Lord, to fulfill desires. Because of desires, one is put into difficult circumstances to suffer or to enjoy. This transcendental vision of the living entity, when developed, makes one separate from bodily activities. One who has such a vision is an actual seer.

13.32

Those with the vision of eternity can see that the imperishable soul is transcendental, eternal, and beyond the modes of nature. Despite contact with the material body, O Arjuna, the soul neither does anything nor is entangled

13.35

Those who see with eyes of knowledge the difference between the body and the knower of the body, and can also understand the process of liberation from bondage in material nature, attain to the supreme goal.

PURPORT

The purport of this Thirteenth Chapter is that one should know the distinction between the body, the owner of the body, and the Supersoul. One should recognize the process of liberation, as described in verses eight through twelve. Then one can go on to the supreme destination.

A faithful person should at first have some good association to hear of God and thus gradually become enlightened. If one accepts a spiritual master, one can learn to distinguish between matter and spirit, and that becomes the steppingstone for further spiritual realization. A spiritual master, by various instructions, teaches his students to get free from the material concept of life. For instance, in Bhagavad-gita we find Krsna instructing Arjuna to free him from materialistic considerations.

One can understand that this body is matter; it can be analyzed with its twenty-four elements. The body is the gross manifestation. And the subtle manifestation is the mind and psychological effects. And the symptoms of life are the interaction of these features. But over and above this, there is the soul, and there is also the Supersoul. The soul and the Supersoul are two. This material world is working by the conjunction of the soul and the twenty-four material elements. One who can see the constitution of the whole material manifestation as this combination of the soul and material elements and can also see the situation of the Supreme Soul becomes eligible for transfer to the spiritual world. These things are meant for contemplation and for realization, and one should have a complete understanding of this chapter with the help of the spiritual master.

6.30

TRANSLATION

For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me.

PURPORT

A person in Krsna consciousness certainly sees Lord Krsna everywhere, and he sees everything in Krsna. Such a person may appear to see all separate manifestations of the material nature, but in each and every instance he is conscious of Krsna, knowing that everything is a manifestation of Krsna's energy. Nothing can exist without Krsna, and Krsna is the Lord of everything — this is the basic principle of Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is the development of love of Krsna — a position transcendental even to material liberation. At this stage of Krsna consciousness, beyond self-realization, the devotee becomes one with Krsna in the sense that Krsna becomes everything for the devotee and the devotee becomes full in loving Krsna. An intimate relationship between the Lord and the devotee then exists. In that stage, the living entity can never be annihilated, nor is the Personality of Godhead ever out of the sight of the devotee. To merge in Krsna is spiritual annihilation. A devotee takes no such risk. It is stated in the Brahma-samhita (5.38):

premañjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti

yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarupam

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

"I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda, who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Syamasundara, situated within the heart of the devotee."

At this stage, Lord Krsna never disappears from the sight of the devotee, nor does the devotee ever lose sight of the Lord. In the case of a yogi who sees the Lord as Paramatma within the heart, the same applies. Such a yogi turns into a pure devotee and cannot bear to live for a moment without seeing the Lord within himself.

February 7, 2004

Faith in a particular belief system is also not under our control,in our illusory conception we take our faith or

belief in this guru or that saint as our own doing,

we see ourselves as using our intelligence and choosing

to believe based on our realization.

In this way we see those who agree with us as correct and those who oppose our belief as beneath our superior ability

to discern absolute truth.

When we are freed from the conditioned state of consciousness we no longer identify the mind as the self,

the mind is under the control of the higher power,

our belief system is not our doing,it is the doing of the

mind under the control of Paramatma.

Why do we believe as we do ?

This is based on large part with memory,memory is the

essence of knowledge,education and intelligence.

without memory given to us at every moment we cannot remember anything at all, we will not know who we are,

where we are,what we are,and what is to be done.

Memory is the gateway to life as an intelligent

person, we are completely dependent at every moment

on our memory,without memory being supplied we would

be like babies at all times, devoid of all knowledge.

So all of our beliefs and knowledge of all facets of our existence are completely dependent on memory.

where does memory come from ?

We have no control over memory,we have no ability to store

or gather a stored memory,even scientists are completely baffled by memory,without any doing on our part memory

appears as we need it, we do not consult a catalogue,

we do not have a search engine in our mind to search for us,

we have no clue as to how this magical memory storage and retrieval is going on.

But it is.

We are 100% dependent on memory for any and every thought

or knowing that we have .

In this way we should understand the illusory conception

of life we are in when we see our beliefs or thoughts

as something independent from an outside control,

We are at all times being given our conception of reality

by our memory which we have absolutely no control over.

February 14, 2004

There is no difference between the energy and the energetic, God and the energy of God are the same thing.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam yaj jnanam advayam

brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate

“Great seers of the truth, who understand the nature of the Absolute Truth, describe that non-dual truth in three ways as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan.” (Bhag. 1.2.11)

Non-dual, One substance that can be understood in three ways. We understand this as factual by understanding what God is: God is an infinite multi-dimensional field of energy, or Brahman. That field of energy has conscious awareness, not only spread out as a field of conscious energy but also at any point within that field the full conscious awareness is present. So God is both energy and consciousness in one. Then there is the Self conception or psyche of God, known as the Personality of God. That is considered to be the controlling aspect of God. Just as you have a body and consciousness spread throughout your body, but the controlling aspect of your body is your id or psyche, so your mind or psyche is the controller of the body that your consciousness animates. At least it appears that way.

From Vaishnava Siddhanta Mala by Thakura Bhaktivinoda

Q. “Then is Bhagavan subordinate to the shakti?”

A. “It is not that Bhagavan is one thing and the shakti is another; just as the burning power of the fire is inseparable from the fire, similarly Bhagavan’s shakti is inseparable from Bhagavan.”

So God is energy or Brahman, consciousness or Param Atma, and psyche or Bhagavan; they are all one and the same substance. The material energy is material only in a philosophical sense. In fact the material energy is God, Brahman, the infinite all pervading energy of God. What we take as energy or energetic needs to be understood in the sense that both are one substance. The energetic is the energy, the energy is energetic, both are the same thing. We call them by different names only by the function but there is no difference.

From Jaiva Dharma by Thakura Bhaktivinoda

“The commentary on Vedanta states, shakti-shaktimator abhedah: ‘There is no difference between the potency and the possessor of potency.’ This means that shakti is not a separate object. The Supreme Person who is the master of all potencies is the one truly abiding substance. Shakti is the quality, or inherent function, that is subordinate to His will.”

Matter, subtle or gross, or spirit, is comprised of One all pervading substance. The material energy is no different than spiritual energy; the difference is in perception. Bhaktivinoda states that “Ultimately there is only One energy of God. When that energy is engaged in material activities that energy is called Maya or Vishnu Maya, when that same energy is engaged in spiritual or transcendental activity it is called Radhika.” So here we see that God is described as being One energy, One substance. Maya is that substance when used for “material” activity; that substance is Radha when engaged in spiritual activity. Here we understand that the energy and the psyche or personality of Radhika are one and the same. Energy, consciousness, and personality are all one substance, expressed in different ways.

So as Krishna stated in the previous verse I posted, the material energy is His energy, in His all pervading feature he exists as material and spiritual energy only in the sense of our perception. In truth they are one and the same substance. God is everything, God controls everything. The jiva is made also of God’s energy, but we are different than the rest of God’s energy in that all of the rest of God’s energy is fully 100% God. Even though you may call matter inferior energy, in truth that is just for classification; in reality it is simply a transformation of One energy which is fully God. There is no other substance but God and jiva, and whatever is not jiva consciousness is fully 100% God, both energy and controller of that energy or energetic. The mind as already described is made of the material energy, it is not ourselves, it is 100% God. We are given the illusion of control over it just as we are given the illusion of control over anything else, but in fact that is all illusory. God is in control at all times. As Krishna states “the soul does nothing”; this is the fact, we just have the illusion of doing things. In fact Krishna tells us we are “forced,” and one who understands the body and the knower of the body and the supreme controller of both, that person is ready for liberation.

Bhagavad-Gita, 3.27

“The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.”

Srimad Bhagavatam, 4.9.7

“My Lord, You are the supreme one, but by Your different energies You appear differently in the spiritual and material worlds. You create the total energy of the material world by Your external potency, and after creation You enter within the material world as the Supersoul. You are the Supreme Person, and through the temporary modes of material nature You create varieties of manifestation, just as fire, entering into wood of different shapes, burns brilliantly in different varieties.

Purport

Dhruva Maharaja realized that the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, acts through His different energies, not that He becomes void or impersonal and thus becomes all-pervading. The Mayavadi philosopher thinks that the Absolute Truth, being spread throughout the cosmic manifestation, has no personal form. But here Dhruva Maharaja, upon realization of the Vedic conclusion, says, “You are spread all over the cosmic manifestation by Your energy.” This energy is basically spiritual, but because it acts in the material world temporarily, it is called maya, or illusory energy. In other words, for everyone but the devotees the Lord’s energy acts as external energy. Dhruva Maharaja could understand this fact very nicely, and he could understand also that the energy and the energetic are one and the same. The energy cannot be separated from the energetic.

Purport, Bhagavad Gita, 2.16

In the Vedanta-sutras, as well as in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the Supreme has been accepted as the origin of all emanations. Such emanations are experienced by superior and inferior natural sequences. The living entities belong to the superior nature, as it will be revealed in the Seventh Chapter. Although there is no difference between the energy and the energetic, the energetic is accepted as the Supreme, and energy or nature is accepted as the subordinate. The living entities, therefore, are always subordinate to the Supreme Lord, as in the case of the master and the servant, or the teacher and the taught. Such clear knowledge is impossible to understand under the spell of ignorance, and to drive away such ignorance the Lord teaches the Bhagavad-Gita for the enlightenment of all living entities for all time.

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The example of the sun and the sunshine is used as a symbolic representation of the oneness and difference between the individual soul and the supreme soul. Matter is in a different category. The soul is called tatastha shakti, which means borderline potency. This is due to the individual soul being neither fully one with the supreme soul, or chit shakti, nor is the soul the same as Maya shakti or the material energy; we are on the border or in between these two realities.

Durga or Maya shakti or the material world are different names for the same principle, the principle of the illusory conception of reality. The external or mayic energy subsists in our perception of untruth; when we are deluded in our vision we experience the illusory world, the world of Maya, the “external” energy. It is not that the energy that comprises this world is material in itself; rather, our vision makes it material. In fact matter and spirit are both one substance, and the difference lies in its use and in its perception. In other words the material world, the world as separate from God, is such only in the conditioned state.

Oneness and difference means that mind is one with God, and also different in the sense that it is not the totality of God. God is the mind and God is more than the mind, this is oneness and difference. God is matter and God is also more than matter. Our minds and this world are God, and our beingness (or consciousness) is also God; all three are also different than God, but not in the same way. The jiva soul is different in that we exist as a different consciousness other than God, whereas matter both gross and subtle does not exist as a separate principle of being; matter is as I said 100% God. The difference between God and the “material” is only in function and relative manifestation; both are God and nothing else, but the material energy is not the whole manifestation of God, therefore it is one and different. The idea of material energy being a separate energy is a philosophical notion; the same energy is either material or spiritual, internal or external depending on its use. If we see or utilize reality in an eternal function then that energy is known as the internal energy or the pleasure giving energy or spiritual energy.

The difference between jiva and matter, and Purusha and matter is not the same; this is easy to understand when matter is seen as relative to perception. Vedic sources tell us over and over that God and the energy of God are not different; they are one and the same. We should properly appreciate those conclusions.