Krishna/Narayana/Lord Siva

[seamusjcarroll]

nonsence

[kimfelix]

Bhaktajan, my private library contains Upanishads, Gita, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Puranas etc as well as writings of acharyas including AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Narayan Maharaja. What higher authority should I seek counsel from? All of us read and hear and then make our judgements as to what path to follow.

[kaisersose]

 

Shankaracharya's doctrine,by definition,refuses the phenomenon of 'Brahm's mercy.

 

Do you have evidence of this? Evidence that can be show in a quote or two without a barrage of two dozen quotes in one post?

 

Thanks

[ranjeetmore]

Kaisersose,

 

Your questions have always perched on sheer speculation.It's fine,but sometimes they're just plain stupid(seriously).

 

Mercy is bestowed by an embodied personality,Who has a Mind and who has the required intelligence to identify one thing from another.

 

***

 

you ask me to quote but when some clear views are presented in front of you,you ignore them.I think you consider these as part of just another 'philosophy'.But there's the catch.

These teachings are the only ones in accordance with the vedas.

 

***

 

I would like to see a Formless,Nameless,Workless,Inteligence-less,Mind less,Sense-less entity bestow mercy on you.

Actually its not your fault,Shankaracharya himself says,"Oh Brahm,Come and RESIDE in my heart.Give me your mercy."

 

Vaishnava: Why Jagadguruji ? You are Brahm,Everything is Brahm,why do

you say that Brahm should COME and Give MERCY ?

Also,you say that Brahm is inert.That whatever undergoes transformation

is illusory,unreal and that Brahm NEVER undergoes transformation and

is thus you term it 'inert'.So HOW can that Brahm POSSIBLY 'COME

and RESIDE' in your heart ???

 

Adi Jagadguru : Shut up and go read Padma Purana.Let me do my work.

[ranjeetmore]

Give me a point blank explanation without any speculations and incredulous observations of your own.If you support Advaita and KNOW that it is 'IT',surely you must've an answer for what Veda Vyasa has to say.

 

I'm waiting.

CHEERS.

 

:

 

 

 

Advaita vadis support their views by stating that Jeevatma is like the space(ghata-akasha) in a pot.As soon as the Pot breaks,he becomes Brahm(Purna- akasha).

 

 

Srila Veda vyasa confirms in the Vedanta that the Jeevatma UNDERGOES Utkraanti,Gati,Aagati and thus he is Not Brahm/Infinite/All pervasive.

 

Utkrantya gatyaagtinam...Brahm sutra.

 

Utkraanti- Leaving the body.

 

Gati- The journey of the Jeevatma after leaving the body according

to his own certain karma.

 

Aagati - Taking up another body.

 

So ?

 

An all pervasive element like the akasha NEVER undergoes the process of

 

'travelling' from one place to the other.A 'handful' of space DOES NOT travel

 

from the earth to the moon planet,after the pot,which contained it ,breaks.

 

This is the clear logic of Srila Vedavyasa.

[bhaktajan]

 

Bhaktajan, my private library contains Upanishads, Gita, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Puranas etc as well as writings of acharyas including AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Narayan Maharaja. What higher authority should I seek counsel from? All of us read and hear and then make our judgements as to what path to follow.

 

Sir kimfelix,

 

I must confess that I simply am ENVIOUS!

 

For that I beg your indulgences, and ask for your pardon.

 

In my mind's eye I preceive an elegant and bit victorian-like clutered library with your books behind glass encased bookshelves [do you have dessicant packettes scattered about?] with windows overlooking tea plantations; with noon visits by a genuine 10th generation brahmana carrying maha-sweets for your due patronage of his family mandir etc etc etc.

 

Can you berate me if I am ENVIOUS of you--and thus I loose control of my speech?

 

Sorry. Please carry on.

 

Hurrah! Harreh!

bhaktajan

[kimfelix]

If only it were so, dear friend!

[kaisersose]

You said

 

 

Kaisersose,

 

Mercy is bestowed by an embodied personality,Who has a Mind and who has the required intelligence to identify one thing from another.

 

and then

 

 

I would like to see a Formless,Nameless,Workless,Inteligence-less,Mind less,Sense-less entity bestow mercy on you.

 

and finally

 

 

Actually its not your fault,Shankaracharya himself says,"Oh Brahm,Come and RESIDE in my heart.Give me your mercy."

 

So Shankara's doctrine does not accept the concept of Brahman's mercy, but nonetheless Shankara asked for mercy?

 

Again, I suggest you stop your nonsense on Advaita and stay away from the topic. No one is gonna miss your drivel on the topic, trust me.

 

Cheers

[ranjeetmore]

In case you haven't gotten it,I just pointed out the gross condradictions in Shankara's teachings.

 

Shankaracharya says that Brahm has no kriya Sakti,for according to Mayavada,Brahm has no energies(Mayavada NOT VEda).

 

Now observe carefully,Kaisersose.:

 

No kriya sakti => no Work

No work => No 'residing' and 'giving' mercy.

 

And then he says,"Come and reside in my heart".

 

This is called CONTRADICTION.

 

And what i was trying to do was 'POINT OUT THIS CONTRADICTION'.

 

You know,i'm quite tired of Explaining every little thing.I think you need some lessons in Advaita for starters.

 

***

 

BTW,I'm waiting for your logical reasoning that will surely have Srila Veda Vyasa at his wits end.

 

CHEERS.

[ranjeetmore]

I'm waiting for your logical reasoning that will surely have Srila Veda Vyasa at his wits end.

 

CHEERS.

[ranjeetmore]

I'm waiting.

[ranjeetmore]

I'm waiting......

 

Hope you have some spare time to correct Srila Veda Vyasa ?

 

That same Srila Veda Vyasa who is confirmed by Sri Shankaracharya as "Narayana Saaksat" and whom he accepts as the 'Supreme Guru'.

 

But then he says in the his bhasya of a vedanta sutra,"Srila Veda Vyasa has become 'bhraant' that means 'mad'/'illusioned'."

 

 

 

 

Oh...I pointed out another contradiction there.I hope you got this one atleast ??

 

Don't bother slinging mud on me by taking some words from this post(Not that have any problem:) ).Reply to Srila Veda Vyasa's logic.

 

CHEERS.

[kimfelix]

Ranjeet, have you got references for those citations? If not it is hard to locate them in the works of Shankaracharya; some of these works are of dubious authenticity and there is sometimes a tendency to quote out of context, which alters the meaning.

[kaisersose]

 

In case you haven't gotten it,I just pointed out the gross condradictions in Shankara's teachings.

 

You did no such thing. It is a little hard to point out contradictons when you have not read a single work of his, don't you think?

 

On the contrary, I pointed out several inconsistencies in your long ramblings - and I am not the only one.

 

 

Shankaracharya says that Brahm has no kriya Sakti,for according to Mayavada,Brahm has no energies(Mayavada NOT VEda).

 

Nonsense. But I will call your bluff anyway. Where did Shankara say that? We both know you have absolutely no idea about that.

 

 

Now observe carefully,Kaisersose.:

 

No kriya sakti => no Work

No work => No 'residing' and 'giving' mercy.

 

And then he says,"Come and reside in my heart".

 

This is called CONTRADICTION.

 

This is called stupidity. If you cannot quote a single verse from Shankara, you should do the right thing and stay away from mentioning him and his doctrine in every other post. With your tiresome copy/paste nonsense, you are just making an idiot of yourself - in case you have not realized it yet.

 

But if that is what you want, then go ahead.

 

Cheers

[sambya1]

 

This is called stupidity. If you cannot quote a single verse from Shankara, you should do the right thing and stay away from mentioning him and his doctrine in every other post. With your tiresome copy/paste nonsense, you are just making an idiot of yourself - in case you have not realized it yet.

 

But if that is what you want, then go ahead.

 

im really starting to wonder whether ranjeet had any personal feud with sri sankaracharya a thousand year ago in his past incarnation . maybe that samskar is still working in him .

 

otherwise how can a person go on with his incessant attempts to disproove sankaracharya virtually in every post ??!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[krishna_r]

Lord Shiva And Vishnu Both Have Powers, Shiva Gives Us Energy

To Fight Diseases, And Good Health, Visnhu Protects Us From Evils, And Negative Things, Both Gods Are Powerful, And Just Like Ganesh Removes Obtstacles, Shiva Destroys Ego And Lust, Durga Gives Shaktio, And Gayatri Gives Light, Al Gods Have Power.

[krishna_r]

Every God Is Powerful, But The Most Powerful Go Is Hanuman. No God Has The Power He Has, He Is Know As The King Of Gods.

[krishna_r]

The Most Powerful God Is Lord Hanuman.

[gokulkr]

 

The Most Powerful God Is Lord Hanuman.

 

Of course true, hanumanji is powerful. but powerful is given to him by all devas while vayu got angry with all because indra injured him. hanumanji is controlled by narayana. he is servant of narayana. his power is narayana. while hanuman tried to remove the linga installed by sita devi to put his linga (brought by him) his tail got broken. only after he realised his mistake, lord rama blessed him, then his tail grew as as usual.

Also while lord krishna wanted to remove ahankara of arjuna he asked hanumanji to walk on plank of arrowbridge created by arjun. that bridge got broke without bearing weight of hanumanji. so arjun realised his mistake and his ahankara removed. arjuna prayed to krishna. but due to arjunas defeat hanumanji got ahankara and krishnaji asked hanuman to walk again on newly constrcuted arrow bridge of arjuna. this time bridge didnt broke, even when hanumanji used all his strength. then hanumanji realised that lord krishna is ultimate power, not him. he bowed down to lord krishna. lord krishna forgived hanumanji and blessed him.

So we can see that everything is leela of Narayana. Lord Narayana (ie., Narasimhadeva) is ultimate. No one above him. Hanumanji is one of the top 108 siddhas. He is also called Mukhya prana. He is also called Siriya Thiruvadi. Of course he is soo great no doubt. But still Lord Narayana is ultimate.He is soul of everyone (including shiva,brahma)

[Harihar]

 

Hanumanji is one of the top 108 siddhas. He is also called Mukhya prana. He is also called Siriya Thiruvadi. Of course he is soo great no doubt. But still Lord Narayana is ultimate.He is soul of everyone (including shiva,brahma)

 

Can U pls tell me who all are included in 108 siddhas & who is top most among them????

[bhaktajan]

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1137272&postcount=77

From Forum named: Do Vaishnavas ever pray to Lord Ganesha?

04-24-2009

Bhaktajan:

Vaishnavas are the greatest Devotees of Shiva!

 

Offenses to Vaishnava are offences of the type that form the supreme conception of an 'offense'

 

--learn who is who, among the hiarchy and then serve accordingly.

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Bhaktajan to princegoutham:

iskconites usually claim . . .

 

iskconites sometimes . . .

 

i'm sure prabhupada cannot translate . . .

 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::;;

What is the reason for seeking artha, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>, Dharma & moksha?

 

Where is spiritural enjoyment, pastimes & purpose of existance --in your so-called Devotion to Shiva?

 

Where is heaven and why do we seek it?

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Sriman ranjeetmore to Sriman princegoutham [Post 81]:

Sripada Shankaracharya,the greatest "Shaivite" declares,"Shudhayati naa antaraatma krsna padambohj bhaktimriteh."

 

Without developing devotion for Sri KRsna's feet,the MIND CANNOT GET PURE.

 

Sri Shankaracharya declares about Sri Ramacandra in the Ramabhujanga stotra,"Lord Shiva touches His head at your feet."

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Sriman princegoutham’s response to Bhaktajan’s question:

A] What is the reason for seeking artha, <st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>, Dharma & moksha?

 

B] Where is spiritural enjoyment, pastimes & purpose of existance --in your so-called Devotion to Shiva?

 

C] Where is heaven and why do we seek it?

princegoutham [Post 88]:

My sanathana dharma believes in the concept of Dharma,Artha,<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place> and moksha.

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/?p=1137411&postcount=88

Follow Dharma ---- Earn (money)Artha ----- Fulfill Desires(<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>) ----- attain moksha.

'Dharma' is eternal. One who follows dharma is protected by dharma( Dharmo rakshati rakshitah). one who does Adharma is bound to perish just like Ravana,kauravas etc. Hence, we believe in eternal dharma.

Artha(money) is one of the purusharthas. one must toil to earn 'artha(money)' . with that 'artha' one must fulfill '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desires). unless one is free from '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desire) one cannot attain moksha. One must earn "artha"(money) and fulfil '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desire) only in 'Dharmic' way.

'<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>'(desire) is the very basis of existance. one who is free from '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>' can alone get 'moksha'. All the desires are to be fulfilled only in Dharmic way. satisaction can alone put full stop to '<st1:place w:st="on">kama</st1:place>' but not repetition of work.

Where is spiritural enjoyment, pastimes & purpose of existance --in your so-called Devotion to Shiva?

Shiva is the 'self' of all beings. The devotees of Shiva who realises their essential nature as Sat-chit-Ananda need not look for any kind of enjoyments. Pastimes are for those who are unable to rise beyond 'time'. but shiva is beyond space and time. He is the creator of both space and time. He is the nondual supreme self. The great yogis regulate their breath, control and still their mind, look inward and enjoy the bliss with their hair standing on edge and eyes filled with tears of joy It looks as though they are immersed in nectar that bliss which they see in their heart and exult thus, is verily Shiva.

Where is heaven and why do we seek it?

Heaven,hell,planets..etc are for those who are bewildered by ignorance. The devotees of shiva who realises themselves as 'Atman' are not bounded by hell or heaven. The 'self' is all pervading. Hence, There is neither going nor coming. This unborn Atman is the basis for time,space,heaen,hell,spiritual planets..etc.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Aside from the pursuit of comfort & pleasure(s) –or not to seek such things during any one’s chosen spiritual life:

princegoutham is a giant devotee of Lord Shiva ---YET He is a mayavadi!

____________ is a giant devotee of Lord _____ ---YET He is a mayavadi!

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To me IMO there are impersonalist and there are personalist philosophic schools of Hindu metaphysics.

The Shaktis, Sakthas, & Shivites are denying the Personal Existance of the Devatas –that is a wrong concept.

The Devas exist as real persons –with the higher more elite and aristocratic status that their titles convey.

Being “ENVIOUS” of Krishna’s revelation(s) in The Gita betrays the wellwishes of Vyasadev and all past noble paramparas since antiquity that preserved the Vedas for Later gererations such as our just now.

ATTENTION! SANSKRIT & HINDI –A-PHILES:

Q: What is the ultimate meaning of the word PARAMBRAHMAN ?

A: The ultimate meaning of the word PARAMBRAHMAN is <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>

[chandu_69]

 

<b>Let's not start this debate again</b>.Many a times this type of debate have already taken place in this forum.This is my humble request to all.

 

Pranaam

 

I second that.

[Smiley]

 

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