Devarsirat Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Dear Prabhus I guess this is a spiritual subject, because the outcome is spiritual, even so the initial post seems to be material. This message is intended for those who like to go deeper into the practice of celibacy and be successful with it. I am a qualified Hypnotherapist and devotee first of all of course and have been associating with the devotees since 1974. I have also been initiated by Srila Prabhupada in 1976 During my time as devotee I have witnessed so many devotees including my self of course, struggling with the senses and more then often out of this struggle, many real life tragedies have developed because so many devotees could not cope, fell down badly, blooped, divorce,Gurus left and so on, we all know about it. Thinking about this, I decided to create a professional audio CD, based on the latest Insights and developments in the fields of Hypnosis and Neurolinguistic programming. The project took me a while and the result is a powerful 60 minute CD, divided into two 30 minutes studio recordings, one for mornings and the other for evenings. Please find out more at http://www.grimsbyhypnosis.co.uk/cd.html Yhs Devarsirat das ACBSP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 celibacy is not a problem, we want to chant hare krishna, not celibacy.. krsna is all inside his name, he's the master of the senses, if he want us more caste, more controlled he will give us this grace.. we are only interested in chanting hare krishna, i never want to be a disciple of a sannyasi who mantains the celibate by hypnotism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devarsirat Posted February 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I do not disagree with you at all, but everything that is favorable for devotional service can be accepted and should not be rejected. To follow the regulative principles is very important for initiated devotees.Brahmacharis and sanjasis are not nessecarily free from sex attachment and many of them struggle maintaining their vows, unfortunately, as history shows even big sanjasis in the past, have fallen from their high positions due to sex attachment and left. The real spiritual master is free from sex attachment, his devotional service is completely pure and you can be certain that he is completely absorbt in meditating upon Sri Sri Radha Krishna, no need for any extra help in the form of hypnotism or anything else. But our history has proven beyond a shadow of a daubt, that sex attachment has always been one of the greatest stumbling block for devotees. Hypnosis is a perfectly acceptable and completely natural process, to help fixing our minds on chanting, controlling the senses and much more. Ones a hypnosis session is over, the suggestions given continue working inside the subconscious mind helping people to make the desired changes in their lifes. For excample a devotee who likes to make progress and get initiated, but who is still very attached to smoking tabacco, will find after having received hypnotherapy to stop smoking, that he is indeed able to do so. Devotees dont always like to take pain killers, hypnosis can help in many cases with pain relieve. Many devotees can be very tense or stressed out because they like to have control over their sexual urges, but frustrait themselves again and again. It is not that we can just chant and in the same time continue to be sinful, so yes, initiated devotees are interested in celibacy for Krishna if they are not, then that is wrong and they have not understood our philosophy. The CD is there to help, it is not that after listening the devotee is still hypnotised, in fact, during hypnotism a person can be wide awake, only the subconscious mind is open, allowing old negative and destructive mindsets to be replaced with positive ones. Afterwards positive beneficial changes are experienced which can be long lasting and most of the time they are. Find out more about Hypnosis here http://www.grimsbyhypnosis.co.uk/Hypnosis%20Facts.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 "I do not disagree with you at all, but everything that is favorable for devotional service can be accepted and should not be rejected. " ,,,,,,yes, and hypnosys is not favorable, because it is a form of repression, it is artificial... a devotee stops egoist gratification because he finds a more great pleasure in krishna celibacy is not a problem if we take shelter in krishna, if we do not do it it can be a problem, but is is not possile to reach it by separated efforts Brahmacharis and sanjasis are not nessecarily free from sex attachment and many of them struggle maintaining their vows, ....if a brahmachary and sannyasi are not free from sex attachement, they are not brahmachary and sannyasi, so better for them to give up the lie to be sex controlled and change ashram. What's the use to mantain a farce? they marry, put the white dress, and go on with devotional service.. your product and propaganda is most negative because in this way you want to teach that spiritual advancement, and change of behaviour (achara) is in the hands of some material trick and not in increasing devotion to sri krishna.. i imagine your sampradaya of hypnotixed sannyasis ready to jump on anything when the hypnotism has some kind of failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dervish Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I think that some devotees see celibacy as the ultimate. They think they can become brahmacharis then Sanyasis and leave this world. Mere celibacy and/or vairagya in the mundane sense is insufficient. Sri Manah Siksa Sloka 6 are cetah prodyat-kapata-kuti-nati-bhara-khara- ksaran-mutre snatva dahasi katham atmanam api mam sada tvam gandharva-giridhari-pada-prema-vilasat- sudhambhodhau snatva svam api nitaram mam ca sukhaya "O Mind, why do you burn us both by bathing in the urine trickling from the ass of great deviousness and hypocrisy? Instead, you should delight us by eternally bathing in the glistening nectar-ocean of pure love for Sri Sri Gandharva-Giridhari (Sri Sri Radha-Krsna)." You need seva and as the desire for seva slowly grows, sex desire will go down naturally. In the meantime, stay away from sweet foods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I agree with the previous guest -- it's all about how we take shelter. Devotional service is not material and has nothing to do with mind or body control by whatever technique or mechanical process. Keep chanting the Holy Names with faith and worship the dieties without duplicity while associating with devotees free from deceit. We depend only on His Divine Grace, never our own efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 "In the meantime, stay away from sweet foods. " What does that mean ? Haribol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dervish Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 It means according to Ayurveda, the continued consumptions of sweet foods facilitate feelings of lust. By consuming less sweet and more bitter food, you will be consuming the so-called brahmachari diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devarsirat Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Dear guest, do your self a favour and try to understand, that the CD, does not hypnotises anyone, it just reinforces a persons already existing desire to be very strong in weak moments, thats all. Believe me there are many followers every day surrendering to their weakness not being able to chant themselfes out of it and many are suffering, because they have made a promise to their spiritual masters. Anyway I wellcome your points of view, it gives me an opportunity to explain more about hypnosis. Dervish posted a good sloka "from a translation of His Divine Grace Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja" and made a good point. Celibacy in itself is not sufficient to be successful but successful celibacy with love for God as goal, works wonders. Why do devotees go to classes? To reinforce their commitments, to hear nectar,for association,to gain more knowledge, gain enthusiam and so on and what are they doing during that time? They are voluntarily open their subconscious minds to receive the message of the speaker and allow themselfes to be programmed for devotional service. When we are kids, we are told what we are, where we are, who we are,what we should think and so on, our minds are open, we do not know if all these things are true and still we accept, all those things are like hypnosis. Therefore hypnosis is just a name for a process which we subconsciously accept naturally every day. It is a fact, that the subconscious mind can not distinguish between fact and fiction, it can only act on the information given. Therefore much of what has trickled through into our subconscious minds over the years might be pure nonsense, but it is also a fact, that our emotions and feelings are based on of what is in our subconscious minds. Many devotees wonder, why after many years of chanting and seva they still have inner attitudes or tendencies which are unfavorable for devotional service and they seem to have great difficulties to give them up. These inner blockages prevent us from going on and making progress. Its no good to be heavy handed and smash somes ego and say "just chant you fool, everything is in Krishnas Name" You might be someone who has realised that everything is in Krishnas Name, which I daubt, but even if, you can not expect others to be like you and therefore dismiss any process which might help them in a big way towards their goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dervish Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Dervish posted a good sloka "from a translation of His Divine Grace Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja" and made a good point. Actually my translation is from another source, but I do recall a time when one of his followers told me the purport of that sloka was about the hypocracy of celibacy with pratishta etc. Is this interpretation universal among all the Gaudiya missions, or was that unique to his translation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 "Believe me there are many followers every day surrendering to their weakness not being able to chant themselfes out of it and many are suffering, because they have made a promise to their spiritual masters" ––if one desires to make sex, the principle, the promise is already broken.. and under the phisical point of view the sperm is already wasted trough nocturnal discharges and trough urine.. so better not to be hypochrite, stop to cheat ourselves, the guru and the people, change dress and live an honest life with a devotee wife. I repeat, if i desire to make sex, if i struggle, the principle is already broken.. at that point the most important thing to do is to be sincere. The worst thing in the world, for bhagavad gita, is not the sex, but the insincerity in spiritual life Celibacy in itself is not sufficient to be successful but successful celibacy with love for God as goal, works wonders. --but sense control depends only from devotion.. not the opposite Why do devotees go to classes? To reinforce their commitments, to hear nectar,for association,to gain more knowledge, gain enthusiam and so on and what are they doing during that time? They are voluntarily open their subconscious minds to receive the message of the speaker and allow themselfes to be programmed for devotional service. --this is plagiarism, not krishna consciousness.. a devotee goes to hear srimad bhagavatam to gain other spiritual knowledge, and this spiritual knowledge make him more free and conscious not "voluntarily programmed" Many devotees wonder, why after many years of chanting and seva they still have inner attitudes or tendencies which are unfavorable for devotional service and they seem to have great difficulties to give them up. --because they (we, me) have not chanted without offences, because the following was only superficial and it is natural to have difficulties in our spiritual path after many many years in this material world. I repeat, when the desire comes, the principle is already broken... to do any kind of castration, hypnotism, repression will remove the problem only momentarily. The mind is not controlled by herself, the mind is controlled only by the the soul, the soul by krishna Its no good to be heavy handed and smash somes ego and say "just chant you fool, everything is in Krishnas Name" --no need to smash and no need to remove problems hypnotizing, one has to live honestly his life and chant hare krishna... if he has sexual desires there's no system to eliminate them with material efforts.. and if there's desire, the principle, the promise is broken.. if one dress as a sannyasi or a vanaprasta or a brahmachary simply he is cheating others. Better to give up the position and marry than use artificial methods to stop the external acting.. i repeat, if there's desire the principle is broken... at this point is much better to have real sex, much better. but even if, you can not expect others to be like you and therefore dismiss any process which might help them in a big way towards their goals. --simply your cd hypnotism is the opposite of krishna consciousness as explained in the bhagavad gita. this is hellish, this is exactly the hiranyakashipu/ravana system.. to reach heaven with material systems: "The CD is not limited to new or only male devotees; everyone, including some in the renounced order of life can benefit greatly from this amazing tool called hypnosis and achieve a higher standard of devotional service very quickly. Within a short time the nagging thoughts about sex and past memories associated with it will loose its appeal and become weaker. Sudden challenges will bounce off easily and the devotee will be able to handle sexual feelings, rather then being handled by them. As a result, chanting and devotional service will improve greatly, faith will increase to deeper levels and the devotee will be happier and stronger. The thought of "blooping" a thing of the past. The cold spoon in the freezer forgotten. And the spiritual master? He will be much more pleased with His disciple!" please, do not cheat devotees, they are very dear to lord sri krishna bhagavan... even the ones who live their relation with the sex without hypochrisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 What load of BS. This whole sex is evil .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devarsirat Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 The translation is definitely from the Sri Manah Siksa,upon looking at it again is seem to be his translation, when I have time I find out if it is for definite. A good verse in any case, it hits the nail straight on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dervish Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Aye, I really like to read Manah Siksa. I remembered this shloka immediately when I saw this thread, so I reached for the first translation I could find on google.com and found this: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/gaudiya_vaisnava_acaryas/manah_siksa.html Unfortunately, it doesn't cite the translator /images/graemlins/frown.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devarsirat Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 My purporse here is not to cheat devotees as you implied, it is excactly the opposite. In my 29 years as disciple of Srila Prabhupada, I have never cheated any devotee and always helped them where I could. No one has ever compared what I am doing with a modern day hellish hiranyakashipu / ravana system. I also never ones wrote that a hypnosis cd which re-enforces those values we hold dear and true in Krishna Consciousness is a replacement or alternative to chanting, reading or service. It does not matter to me what you think about this, I know my field well and know that nothing about it is artificial, no one will ever become a mechanical robot from it, or start chanting the holy name like a zomby. Sense control is not dependend on devotion at all, many karmis practice celibacy having no devotion at all, some of them are atheistic. In the fire of devotion of course "if you are that advanced?" we forget about our material desires and are overcome by real happiness, which is Krishna Consciousness. Dont think that getting married will sove any problems, it doesnt, for a few it does maybe, and they are the lucky ones for what I have seen and experienced in the movement, it can increase problems dramatically. Anyway I understand, that you have not much knowledge about hypnosis and its benefits, or how incredibly harmless a process it is. I dont hold it against you but I did not arrive here to be accused for something I am not. So in the future I let you be. Dont think "oh I have defeated him" this is not the case, I just simply dont have discussions with people who are set in their ways or fanatically have to prove their ideas, no matter what. Apart from this, those devotees who have ordered the CD obviously like the idea and dont think anything wrong about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devarsirat Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 It certainly is one of the best books I have ever read. Especially the sloka we are discussing, its very much like a hammer on the head so to speak and literally pulles the carpet away under ones feet. Narayana Maharajas translation is as follows Sri Manah-Siksa Sloka six (In spite of having subdued the enemies of lust and anger, one may not have conquered the greatenemy of deceit. This verse instructs us how to gain victory over this powerful enemy.) O wickedmind! Although you adopt the path of sadhana, you imagine yourself purified by bathing in the trickling urine of the great donkey of full-blown deceit and hypocrisy. By doing so, you are simul-taneously burning yourself and scorching me, a tiny jiva. Stop this! Delight yourself and me by eternally bathing in the nectarine ocean of pure love for the lotus feet of Sri Radha Krishna Yugala. Commentary of Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja (1) Prodyat kapata-kutinati-bhara khara ksaran-mutre snatva: Bathing in the trickling urine of the great donkey of full-blown deceit and hypocrisy The overt deceit and hypocrisy which are present in a sadhaka even after adopting the path of sadhana are compared to the urine of a donkey. Considering oneself to be intently engaged in bhajana while remaining devious and hypocritical at heart is like considering oneself pure by bathing in the filthy, burning urine of a donkey. A sadhaka should carefully abandon this pitfall. There are three kinds of bhakti-sadhakas: (1) svanistha, (2) parinisthita, and (3) nirapeksa. The svanistha-sadhaka completely discards the rules and prohibitions prescribed within varnasrama and endeavors incessantly simply to please Bhagavan Sri Hari. The parinisthita-sadhaka performs all his activities in accordance with the rules and prohibitions laid down for the service and attendance of Bhagavan. Both these types of sadhakas are grhasthas. The nirapeksa-sadhaka is a renunciate. All three are benefited only when they become thoroughly honest. Otherwise, by resorting to deceitfulness, they are surely vanquished. The hypocrisy demonstrated by these three is described below. (1) Deceit of the svanistha-sadhaka--(a) indulging in sense-enjoyment on the pretext of sadhana- bhakti, (b) serving wealthy and influential materialists instead of unpretentious devotees, © accu- mulating wealth beyond one`s needs, (d) having great enthusiasm for futile, temporary enterprises, (e) indulging in illogical arguments on the pretext of cultivating knowledge, and (f) adopting the dress of a renunciate to get material prestige. (2) Deceit of the parinisthita-sadhaka---(a) making an external show of strict adherence to rules and regulations but remaining inwardly attached to material subjects, and (b) preferring the association of philanthropists, jnanis, yogis, and materialistic people to that of resolute, loving devotees. (3) Deceit of the nirapeksa-sadhaka--(a) to maintain pride by thinking oneself to be an elevated Vaisnava, (b) to adopt the dress of a renunciate and, due to false ego, regard other sadhakas as inferior, © to accumulate wealth and materials beyond the basic necessities of life, (d) to associate with women on the pretext of sadhana, (e) to keep close contact with materialistic people with the inten tion of collecting funds and donations instead of going to the temple, (f) to worry about collecting funds on the pretext of performing bhajana, (g) to enfeeble one`s attachment for Krishna by attributing importance and respect merely to the external dress and symbols of the renounced order and by being overly attached to the rules and regulations of renunciation. Therefore, the defects of mundane arguments ( kutarka), false philosophical conclusions ( kusid- dhanta), and anarthas, all arising from deceit in the domain of bhajana, have been compared to the urine of a donkey. Many sadhakas consider themselves purified by bathing in this unholy urine of the donkey of deceit, but in reality it only consumes their soul...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 "Sense control is not dependend on devotion at all, many karmis practice celibacy having no devotion at all, some of them are atheistic." if one's in this world there's no question of sense control.. if one controls his senses he direct them to krishna, if one is moral, satvik, even if he does not practice something now, he has done it in previous lifes and now is enjoying the benefits . But if he does not take krishna consciousness (not hypnotism) the problems will restart when the credits will be at end. So nothing definitive can be achieved on the material plane... only temporary repression.. "Dont think that getting married will sove any problems, it doesnt, for a few it does maybe, and they are the lucky ones for what I have seen and experienced in the movement, it can increase problems dramatically." and you will cure "sannyasis" who neither the sex in the marriage life will cure with the listening of a cd? please.. at least do not help them to hide their problem, let all be manifest so people could be safe and protected by them "Dont think "oh I have defeated him" who cares? "Apart from this, those devotees who have ordered the CD obviously like the idea and dont think anything wrong about it." a little more money for you at the expense of the devotees... very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Again I must agree with the previous guest post. "Delight yourself and me by eternally bathing in the nectarine ocean of pure love for the lotus feet of Sri Radha Krishna Yugala." Apparently Srila Ragunatha Das Goswami neglected to mention that along with his above advice, we are also advised to buy hyposis CDs and what-not as helpful supplementary devices to faithfully hearing and chanting in the association of sincere devotees. Of course, some may utilize such association as a marketplace in the guise of devotional service, but most fortunately see that as DECEIT. Seems like anything goes these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 Unfortunately, I must disagree with the above guest, and find it offensive that without even knowing you or knowing much about hypnosis, accuses a sincere devotee of deceit. Sheesh. What a bunch of nitpicking. Srila Raghunatha Goswami never prescribed air conditioners (artificial cool air), nor tape players (artificial sound vibration), nor airplanes (artificial transportation), ACME Juicers (artificial juice expellers), nor a thousand other things we take for granted and use to assist us (and others) in devotional service. Srila Prabhupada said to tolerate the urges of sex desire. He didn't say "Keep chanting, do all nonsense, give in to your urges at will, until you have a higher taste, and then, and only then, follow the 4 regulative principles." Devarsirat's description of hypnosis is accurate. We are all being hypnotized everyday, whether we know it or not. And we've been hypnotized all our lives, and nearly every one of us has bad, destructive habits which prevent us from chanting suddha nama. I've known people (devotees included) who successfully used hypnosis to conquer the smoking habit (nicotine.) Surely this is favorable for devotional service. Priithaa dasi uses a form of reiki for helping others. Not exactly the same thing as hypnosis, but a means of helping others in their struggles to become Krsna Conscious, nonetheless. Devarsirat prabhu, please don't even bother arguing with these guests. They have agendas, they love to argue for argument's sake, and you will never succeed in seeking their approval. It's not worth it. Those who are interested will inquire further, privately or otherwise. Please don't let them drag you into the deep dark abyss of useless squabbling. I think you have done a nice service for struggling neophytes who wish to overcome bad habits. Certainly hypnosis is not needed for advanced devotees, but for the types of devotees you have already described, those who are neophyte and struggling, and falling down constantly. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati said we should beat our minds with a broomstick every day. Yes, hearing and chanting is there. No one has ever denied that. Making a conscious effort to avoid offenses and falldowns is also there, (read the purports to Sri Siksastakam) which, as it unfortunately appears, a couple of guests wish not to acknowledge. Hypnosis is not for them (despite the fact that they are being hypnotized unknowlingly everyday, regardless.) Bhakta Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2004 Report Share Posted February 20, 2004 "Srila Prabhupada said to tolerate the urges of sex desire. He didn't say "Keep chanting, do all nonsense, give in to your urges at will, until you have a higher taste, and then, and only then, follow the 4 regulative principles." yes and he sended all devotees to pychologists and hypnotists? to tolerate means to have faith that holy name will solve sooner or later all the problems, in the between better not to be hypochrite and be situated in the right ashram, or o not promise things in front of spiritual master and deities.. and not to be overly frustrated if something happens, we are in kali yuga.. (but a sannyasi with sex desire, has immediately to leave the ashram, in my opinion also the brahmachary) the big error is to identify the breaking of the principle with the act, but when one has the desire the principle is already broken, so the remedy (i have my doubts) perhaps will stop the symptoms, not the disease. And the disease is there until we desire maya and not krishna.. so there's not any medical cure for the average illicit sex desire. remember the hypnotist was recommending his cd for brahmachary and sannyasis, and imagine our temples and gbc councils full of people obsessed by sex but kept in line by half an hour a day by the cd isn't it funny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 surely this is not going to work, in fact the disease of lust will increase as the subject becomes more and more obsessed with sex illicit or otherwise,this sounds a bit like aversion therapy used in some mental hospitols with sex offenders and believe it or not homosexuals.yes even now in the west. so beware prabhus lest the grim reaper comes reaping with his gelding shears,no joke. im very shocked that such a cd is in existence and that too within the devotee community... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 HH Tripurari Maharaj: "Surrender is not about gaining control, but losing it." Sri Sri Radha-Krsna are the controllers, not us. When genuine transformation occurs in the heart, all the rest follows quite naturally. This can happen quickly or slowly, in His time not ours'. Hopefully we can cultivate proper desire through the blessings of good association and service, but devotion remains a priceless gift of His Divine Grace. Mercy is always needed, not simply a prerequisite. I find constant chanting and prayer, internally as well as externally, can be very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Thank you Prabhu When I was a new devotee in 1974 and came straight from the drug scene I struggled terribly to maintain the 4 regs, especially sex and during my many years in Iskcon and the devotee society in general I have encountered a lot of new and older devotees, who because of their circumstances and previous conditioning experienced much failure, so many where not able to join and others went away again. Guest is quiet right in promoting chanting and devotional service as the main cure for our material diseases, but it is also true that depending on what stage of spiritual understanding a person is that he will be able to carry out those instructions or has difficulties with it. The mind can be our greatest friend and our worst enemy and to many times the latter is true. The mind is also material and more then often due to its flickering nature forces us to act opposite to what we really want. I believe that anything that can be used to support chanting and to help bringing the mind under control, can be investigated and applied if it does not go against the 4 regs. For example I have a devotee friend here where I live, he knows the movement for over 20 years, but because of some deep rooted attachments, his steady progress was being disturbed and interrupted so many times, that he almost gave up for good. Since we have been working together for the past 2 months this has not happened again and he is beginning to see some light at the end of the tunnel and has found new enthusiasm, his personality is changing at one point he will not need therapy anymore and flap his own wings again. His progress is also the reason behind the idea of the CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 The above post was in reply to Bhakta Dans post. Someone asked who Peter Michaels is. Peter Michaels is Devarsirat das Initiated by Srila Prabhupada in 1976 in Germany, Schloss Rettershof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 "The mind can be our greatest friend and our worst enemy and to many times the latter is true. The mind is also material and more then often due to its flickering nature forces us to act opposite to what we really want." Our minds serve by reminding us what we want, based on past experiences. For so long we have chosen material over spiritual, due to our misidentification with matter. Krsna states in Bhagavad-gita that ALL memory and forgetfulness come from Him alone. We also know that from God we obtain Sri Gurudeva. In the association of His Divine Grace we are automatically reminded of our spiritual basis, coming to identify more and more with our true nature. Lord Caitanya has told us that ALL of Krsna's potency is invested in His Holy Names, therefore we have only to take shelter there. He prescribes the proper attitude in which to appreciate the Holy Names as well. As we embrace this divine gift, finally accepting it as the ONLY effective means in the present Age of Kali {quarrel and hypocrisy}, the desired results are inevitably personally experienced. Thus our faith gradually deepens, becoming firmer, until our minds recognize that what we really want is contained ONLY in those Holy Names. Rather than blaming ourselves when forgetfulness occurs, apparently willful or not, we need simply continue repeating the Holy Names and genuinely take shelter of Them in every respect. The entire maha-mantra is not required except during japa. Otherwise, one or two will do... While the mind and intelligence seek desperately to understand, they cannot, for the Absolute Truth we long for exists only in our heart-of-hearts. Any attempts acquiring external objective knowledge merely reinforce the false-ego's belief that we are somehow controllers. After a long time, the mind gives up and serves us the Holy Names, rather than spinning off on another dead-end, or, trying to convince us there is actually some better alternative as if we can "have our cake and eat it too". Like training an animal or young child, our minds are highly sensitized to our responses. If we are to make friends, patience and gentle persistence are much more effective in the long term than beatings and harsh discipline, which will surely provoke traumatization and innumerable negative responses, perhaps when least expected. Strong loving relationships usually take time to build. Self-realization and God-realization occur simultaneously and we must learn to love absolutely, which of course includes self-forgiveness along with that offered for others. What we've been given by God and guru remains perfect and complete, in fact easily practiced. It does take alot of practice though. What derails us is trying to run before we can even walk, bumping into others and blaming them, then remorsefully feeling guilty ourselves. Everything and everyone are exactly where and what they are meant to be, including us. God and His paraphernalia are non-different. Devotional service is freely available just by caring for each other as living dieties. Then our chanting bears tangible fruits, such as compassion. Trouble is, familiarity can breed contempt. Impatience is aggravated by persistent obvious faults. Still, when we see devotees after a long period of suffering on our own, how welcome that vision is. Even antagonists appear like old friends! There's a common bond which unites us, felt if not yet fully understood or realized. For me it's like coming home, though our family may not seem able to live harmoniously or at least the way I may think we should be. After all, that's not for me to decide, is it? Nor is it ultimately my responsibility. I can only accept the opportunity to play my little insignificant part when needed. However, when it comes to personal relationships, "little things often mean a lot". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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