? for Narayana Maharaja Disciple

[Guest guest]

"This is not correct."

 

Actually it is correct, when taken in the proper context. Srila Narayana Maharaja wasn't giving initiations to anyone, GM or former Iskcon, during the 1980's. (There may have been one exception, not sure.)

[Guest guest]

Excuse me, but when the ISKCON GBC passed resolutions critical of Srila Sridhar Maharaj in the 1980's then Narayana Maharaj did not separate himself from Tamal Krishna Maharaj etc. because of their "avaisnava attitude", as you call it. He only became annoyed when ISKCON gurus started to tell their disciples not to associate him, Narayana Maharaja.

[Guest guest]

"because of their "avaisnava attitude", as you call it."

 

As I call it? I can't locate where I said that. I searched all over... Who are you talking to, anyway.

 

"He only became annoyed...."

 

What are you, a mind-reader or something? How can you dare to presume to know the heart of a maha-bhagavata? You are only seeing the externals, and even there, only what you want to see. Because of Srila Narayana Maharaja, so many people who misunderstood Srila Sridhara Maharaja, having committing offenses against him, have now seen the light, and now recognize Srila Sridhara Maharaja as a maha-bhagavata.

 

Please. Do everyone a favor, and check this offensive tendency you have in trying to pit one Acarya against another. It it neither healthy for your devotional creeper nor for anyone else who reads such filth.

[Guest guest]

 

You wrote

 

To be correct: NM started to give initiations only when ISKCON gurus forbade their disciples to associate with vaisnavas from GM. This restriction was considered to be avaisnava attitude, hence the reason to reject one's guru.

[Guest guest]

For your information, Srila Sridhara Maharaja told his disciples not to associate with Narayana Maharaja or Vaman Maharaja. Devotees of Srila Sridhar Maharaj were told not to go inside the gates of Devananda Gaudiya Math, because, in Srila Sridhara Maharaja's own (exact) words: "They abused me".

[Guest guest]

As I see some others have replied to my posts while I was away. I apologize for doing the same as I cannot receive my registration password (maybe it gets deleted in anti-spam filters of my ISP). But believe me I always sign my posts with my name below.

 

I don't pretend to know what GM gurus in India really have in mind when they say that we should never associate with this or that matha or Maharaja and then secretly read their books. I would rather believe that it has something to do with Indians' manner of speach. It is very polarized but the personal dealings is completely another thing.

 

If you are living in India and belong to a certain mission then probably you are living either in matha, or near it, or otherwise you are just grihastha with wife and children with your own sadhana and plans to retire in Vrindavana and Mayapur. Thus there is no real need to pronounce the similarity of different vaisnava missions, you would rather emphasize your exclusivity. Indeed, brahmacari living in the asrama of his guru should be 100% immersed in serving guru and not wandering around different mathas.

 

I am mostly familiar with Russia but I guess that also in other western countries vaisnava temples are rare. In a few big cities there might be ISKCON, and SCSVM, and Narayana Maharaja followers but in most places we are lucky if there is even one fully functioning temple. In some smaller European countries (Yugoslavia, I think) devotees even don't have a temple. In these places still there is the preaching going on, and a large part of that is done by grihasthas whose don't have a possibility to directly serve their guru or his mission all the time. The cooperation is very needed to preach Krishna consciousness.

 

But the leaders of the one mission, let's say ISKCON, that has become established, has built a temple and receives steady donations, tend to distance themselves from other vaisnavas with thinking that we can afford to lose them for being unchaste and ungrateful /images/graemlins/smile.gif And the real reason for this has nothing to do with the actual dynamics of the place or country where it is taking place. The struggle for power or politics are happening thousands of kilometers away, perhaps on another continent but the relationships with other devotees are spoilded right here. Then why should we became so averse towards other vaisnavas just because someone “telegraphs” us, "don't associate with Narayana Maharaja followers" or "don't read books of such and such Maharaja".

 

This is all so wrong. Firstly, if guru is not controlling the miniscule details of our life, then why is this instruction needed. He don't, for example, instructs us, you should not associate with Christians or Muslims, etc. Yet, I have witnessed multiple times how perfectly good friendship between devotees have been ruined with one e-mail letter from "guru" with words "don't associate with X Maharaja followers". GBC or any other policy is based on politics. Our personal relationships with other devotees is completely another matter and that should not be controlled others. In this category I would include coming to the temple for the darsana, doing some humble service in the temple etc.

 

Secondly, Krishna consciousness in the West currently is diminishing. We need to apply double efforts to help to preserve and increase it, not to fight with each other. We should forgive some mistakes or bad behaviour of other devotees and give devotees a chance to serve and expand Krishna consciousness. The time for our guru's exclusivity here has not yet come.

 

ISKCON has the right idea of jointly preaching versus single guru mission. Unfortunately presently this idea has not been realized and I have the feeling that the GBC is not helping it either but rather promoting "multiple guru's club" instead.

 

Hare Krishna!

 

Ys Karunanidhi

[Guest guest]

Here is post taken from Chakra that displays the reasons why ISKCON is disappointed with the behaviour of Narayana Maharaja and his followers.

 

Thoughts on the Narayana Maharaja Controversy

By Prithu Dasa

Wherever great souls go, they cause happiness, harmony and peace.

However it is evident by now, that wherever Narayana Maharaja goes, division develops, and due to relentless proselytizing of his followers, communities are being disrupted by sectarian strife and disharmony.

Indeed division often occurs even within one and the same family: Wives are being initiated without consultation of the husband, even parents, initiated by Srila Prabhupada, are often left in utter dismay since children are being initiated without concerns for the feelings of their parents. In fact Narayanan Maharaja sees no wrong initiating even minors.

Hostile actions like the one's in the Australian graffiti case threatening house burning and demonstrations at the Manor even at the most holy day of Janmastami speak louder than words. They are the fruits of those sharp and intensely belligerent words NM has been leveling since years now towards ISKCON and ISKCON leadership.

Even towards Srila Prabhupada, subtly or at times even overt:

No, giving the Gayatri Manta by tape as Srila Prabhupada used to is not authorized.

Deity names in New Delhi and LA are unauthorized.

As for restricting sexuality to procreation in married life by initiated householders: "I don't know where Swamiji is getting these ideas from.." (as said to Gopal Krishna Maharaja).

Initiating people on the spot no matter whether they are able to follow the 4 regs is the daily fare.

And yes: - 4 rounds are O.K. though Srila Prabhupada wanted us to chant 16. Even offering a wealthy person whom he met for the first time, first and second initiation the same day, while shrewdly stating: "I have been observing you since a very long time. So I decided that you should take first and second initiation today." (in Germany) Believe it or not: people fall for it

Not only does NM do things very differently and teaches very differently in many areas from what we have been told by Srila Prabhupada - even though he is claiming to be SP's disciple.

In light of his marginalizing or changing Srila Prabhupada's teachings, his pledges how much love he has for Srila Prabhupada ("my siksha Guru"), are merely a shallow claim.

History has shown again and again that indeed NM will say whatever works to collect followers. He even goes so far as to intensely criticize Srila Prabhupada at an opportune moment and as such engaging himself in an unprecedented case of faith breaking.

Here is just one example:

One very wealthy devotee's wife was initiated by NM in his absence and without his consent. When Narayana Maharaja suggested that he take initiation from him as well (to restore peace in the family) this man refused, already being initiated by an ISKCON guru. When this devotee said: "Maharaja you should know, that every hair on my body belongs to ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada" Narayana Maharaja retorted: "Do you know that Srila Prabhupada was selling liquor?"

The man told me: "My blood was boiling that the Maharaja would go so far to break my faith in Srila Prabhupada. I told my wife: Give him the beads back, and we left his room."

This is a first hand report heard by me and Ravindra Swarupa Prabhu during the 1999 Mayapur festival. I'll be willing to call any deity in any ISKCON temple to be my witness for what I have personally heard and described above as being the truth and nothing but the truth.

Due to Narayana Maharaja's unceasing criticism of ISKCON and ISKCON leadership (e.g. "99 % of ISKCON sannyasis are fallen"...."All the good people have left ISKCON"...."ISKCON is our enemy....” "I am targeting ISKCON...ISKCON is dead..."..." just a society of rules, we are a society of love"..."The real ISKCON is here...") while at the same time preaching that one should never offend the Vaishnavas, his followers lose their discretion and ability to put two and two together.

Drifting further and further away, they all too often develop a militant and belligerent attitude towards ISKCON, endlessly harassing ISKCON temples, ISKCON festivals, ISKCON members and congregational members with their mantra of the "mahabhagavata we all need to follow to be saved.” They're a menace wherever they go.

In fact with their faith in Srila Prabhupada systematically being eroded, they are a menace to themselves.

I feel very sorry for them.

Your servant

Prithu dasa Adhikary

 

 

[stonehearted]

Despite the risk of keeping this thread going, I wonder enough why our "guest" posted this twice--for emphasis? To bring us to Prithu prabhu?

[gHari]

Prithu Prabhu's volunteering to take an oath to verify that he heard someone say that someone said something doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We need the oath from the husband (and wife). I wonder if the wife really renounced her guru.

 

Perhaps Prabhupada sold rubbing alcohol in his pharmaceutical business.

 

[Guest guest]

***Ys Karunanidhi

 

You from Litva?