Spiritual Master & Disiple...

[Govindaram]

 

Hare Krishna

 

I came upon this paper which seems to be being circulated around the devotee community, I am not sure about it myself, I am wondering what senior devotees/experienced devotees/advanced devotees (love you all), think about this.

 

Oh unto the feet of all peoples who sing the names of Krishna with love! all glories unto you! ahem..

 

Mr Link (krishna's servant) ..

http://krsna_katha.tripod.com/GandI.html

Nitai-Gaura Hari-Harbol!!

[Dervish]

Haribol Prabhu,

 

Is this why you asked about CC Madhya Lila 15.108? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

I am curious to know the author of the article's affiliation. They don't appear to be of ISKCON or IRM. No doubt, the maha mantra is all powerful, and even the uninitiated can partake of its benefit. Of course, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj was a powerful devotee by the time he first met Srila Prabhupad:

 

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His whole life prior to meeting his spiritual master His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, was one of purity, preparation and devotion. In search of his eternal spiritual master he left home with only two gamchas (short dhoti), a bamboo stick, a begging bowl, and no money. He completely depended on Krishna for everything. He would walk and talk about Krishna to the devotees, eat whatever Krishna would provide and sleep under any tree at night. As a mendicant, he visited many Holy tirthas, from the Himalayas to Cape Comorin in South India.

 

Meeting Srila Prabhupada

 

During his first meeting with Srila Prabhupada in Sri Vrindavan, Srila Prabhupada asked him, Have you taken sannyasa? He said No. Then Srila Prabhupada said immediately, “I will give you sannyasa.” Thereafter, Srila Prabhupada gave him first initiation in Sridham Mayapur, second initiation in Bombay, and sannyasa in Sri Vrindavan, India.

 

A Devotee from Birth

 

Srila Prabhupada quoted the following verse at the time of giving Sannyasa to Srila Gour Govinda Swami, “The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated, is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no duty.” He uttered this verse and said, “He is a real sannyasi” and then gave him the sannyasa mantra and danda. Shortly thereafter, many sannyasis and GBC members started complaining, “How has he taken sannyasa? He is a new man!” Then Srila Prabhupada told them, “He is a devotee from his birth - you are new men!”

 

 

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Also look at the life of Sriman George Harrison:

 

Sriman George Harrison has certainly done an unique service by contributing $19,000 for publishing my Krsna book. When I was in London, he saw me four times and he was very submissive and devout and he was not at all proud of his very well-to-do material position. He has a reputation as a first class musician and he is considered to be rich or as they say one of the richest men in the world. Still he was not at all puffed up, but was humble, meek, polite, and devout. So all these qualities and his service to Krishna will certainly help him in his advancement of Krishna Consciousness. Thus I see that although he is not an initiated disciple, still he has been trying to help us in so many ways.

 

This change of his heart has been possible by the endeavor of Syamasundara.. Syamasundara. tried to win his friendship by all means and the result obtained thereof was offered to Krishna. In the London Temple the first class Italian marble throne worth about $3,000 was also contributed by George through the service of Syamasundara.. So actually George's leaning towards Krishna Consciousness has been greatly influenced by Syamasundara.'s endeavor. Srimad-Bhagavatam recommends that we shall employ our life, money, intelligence, and words for the service of the Lord. So Syamasundara. employed his intelligence to bring George Harrison into the service of Krishna Consciousness and thus George's money has been employed in Krishna's service. This is the whole process of Krishna Consciousness--First of all one should dedicate his life for Krishna's service; that is very nice. If he cannot dedicate his whole life, then let him devote his money; if he cannot devote his money, then let him devote his intelligence; and if he cannot devote his intelligence also, then let him devote his voice in Krishna Consciousness by uttering Hare Krishna Mantra. Therefore Hare Krishna Mantra is the greatest common factor for self-realization. Please preach this philosophy whole-heartedly and Krishna will be very much pleased upon you.

 

Srila Prabhupad's letter to Bhagavan das, Los Angeles, 8 February, 1970

 

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However, just as was discussed on your thread about CC Madhya Lila 15.108, initiation is a great boon to expedite the benefits of Hari Nama.

[Krishna_dasa_108]

My Dear Govindaram,

 

First let me thank you for promoting our Page by linking it in your post.

 

Second, let me take you to task for mis-representing your relationship with the Page, and the two devotees who offer it to the Hare Krishna community.

 

You have known us both - Rukmini-Devi dasi and myself - for a number of months. And you were one of the first persons to whom we refered out Page - despite having had consistantly "bad dealings" from you. We did so, because we hoped for you, and wanted to share our thoughts with you.

 

So you did not "happen upon" this Page at all.

 

Third, let me remind you to be honest about your own opinion of the Page - which is to have ignored the main points . then once you finally did read it, continuously harrassing and attempting to discredit both the Page and us.

 

This, to the point that we have had to ban you from our Paltalk rooms, and bar you from furthing private communications with us - as several other Paltalk members have had to do with you in the past.

 

As "advanced devotees" - at least in time and age (tho' neither of us believes any devotees are so advanced that they could be considered such) - we feel this page gives answer to the most difficult problem confronting the Hare Krishna community today.

 

We offer it in love and concern only ... with no "hidden agenda" - unlike you, with this posted message here.

 

To be 100% upfront - and to make it VERY simple for you: despite so many accusations on your part, we "adhere" to neither the Rtvik nor the ISKCON version of Guru and Initiation, as they are at this time.

 

Yes, this places us outside both "camps" - but it does not place us outside the Hare Krishna community, as Srila Prabhupada's disciples.

 

To be a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, the jaga siksa guru for this age, one must following his instructions, and chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra as he requires.

 

This, we do faithfully - out of our desire to serve him and his best friend, Lord Krishna. This, you self-admittedly do not do ... and I suspect this is the cause of your present toxic personality.

 

In the future, please be honest about yourself and your motives, and you may experience not only great spiritual growth, but maybe even find a few people who actually like you along the way.

 

Sincerely,

Krishna dasa Adhikari

[Govindaram]

 

"Yes, this places us outside both "camps" - but it does not place us outside the Hare Krishna community, as Srila Prabhupada's disciples."

 

As you say I should be truthfull, and why is it, that you are in an outside camp again, If I choose to disgree then you cannot blame me, there are so many devotees at present 'claiming' to be prabhupada diciples initiated or Not, who in his sweet name, do all kinds of noncence, I do not know who you are, I've had contact with you for maybe not even 2 weeks, I do not care what you have said about me, in a childesh manner you do it on an open forum, I am not a sannyasi, I am go out of my way to be 'nice', and I get this from you, I have better things to do than associate with somebody who preaches in this way. Goodday.

 

[Krishna_dasa_108]

no further comment is necessary.

 

just chant hare krsna.

[yasodanandana]

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darshinah

 

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.

 

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i do not find the matter so difficult... chanting hare krishna is asking service, from guruvastakam we know that we serve krishna through the spiritual master, who serves the gopis, who serve radharani, so if our chanting is sincere krsna will soon send us a pure uttama adhikari spiritual master to take siksa and diksa.

 

We make often a lot of mental speculation because we simply do not like to be personally chastized by a vaishnava in our same plane of existence, so we say to be disciples of a departed acharya, we say that we serve krishna also without initiation and so on..

 

chanting hare krishna does not need anything to be activated, but chanting brings naturally and harmonically to find a vaishnava representative of the paramatma, who reveals to us what our paramatma wants, things that we cannot know directly, having our connection and communication interrupted by the illusion... maya

 

 

"A siksa-guru is one who is a transparent medium, offering pure information and knowledge of spiritual value, as given by his/her spiritual master.

 

A diksa-guru is one who is empowered to conduct ritual brahminical initiation. "

 

the same person or exactly the same qualificaton:... who gives siksa knows the spiritual matter, he has realized "brahman" so he can give brahminical status to others by empowering (benedition) and teaching, who gives diksa, has to be situated in spiritual consciousness, brahman, so he can give pure teaching (siksa) to a disciple (sisya)

 

hare krishna... happy gaura purnima to everyone!!!

[Govindaram]

 

Ps. Thankyou Prabhus for your replys, Yashodanandana esp, I always value your advice. I am trying to get faith in chanting again as Krishna Das Adhikari said, don't give-up on me so easy Prabhuji!

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Krishna Das Adhikari Prabhu..

I will chant/and you shall too, there is np.

 

 

 

 

[gHari]

Isn't it?

[Govindaram]

 

You can't get away with Blaspheming devotees.

 

You can run, but you can't hide.

 

I think the Fear of Krishna has gone out,

its all about Love, don't forget who He is.

[Govindaram]

 

SB: 4.24.15

 

TRANSLATION

 

When all the sons of Pracinabarhi left home to execute austerities, they met Lord Siva, who, out of great mercy, instructed them about the Absolute Truth. All the sons of Pracinabarhi meditated upon the instructions, chanting and worshiping them with great care and attention.

 

PURPORT

 

It is clear that to perform austerities or penances, or, for that matter, any form of devotional service, one has to be guided by a spiritual master. Here it is clearly stated that the ten sons of Maharaja Pracinabarhi were favored by the appearance of Lord Siva, who, out of great kindness, gave them instructions regarding the execution of austerities. Lord Siva actually became the spiritual master of the ten sons, and in turn his disciples took his words so seriously that simply by meditating upon his instructions (dhyayantah) they became perfect. This is the secret of success. After being initiated and receiving the orders of the spiritual master, the disciple should unhesitatingly think about the instructions or orders of the spiritual master and should not allow himself to be disturbed by anything else. This is also the verdict of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, who, while explaining a verse of Bhagavad-gita (vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana, Bg. 2.41), points out that the order of the spiritual master is the life substance of the disciple. The disciple should not consider whether he is going back home, back to Godhead; his first business should be to execute the order of his spiritual master. Thus a disciple should always meditate on the order of the spiritual master, and that is perfectional meditation. Not only should he meditate upon that order, but he should find out the means by which he can perfectly worship and execute it.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the link to that paper. I also steer clear of the ISKCON or ritvik camps on this issue, finding it preferable to keep a respectful distance.

 

From the paper:

 

 

Of course, it is your choice ...

 

You can take any kind of Initiation from any kind of Guru you choose - ISKCON, Rtvik, or otherwise.

 

However, we strongly encourage you to very carefully study, contemplate, pray and chant Hare Krishna, before making such a momentous choice.

 

 

Remember, it’s your eternal spiritual life.

 

 

The above strikes me as the only advice necessary to find Krsna's representative.

 

Afterall no one finds guru apart from the Lord's revelation.

 

But if we don't really believe in God's existence or mercy then we will have to come up with some alternative schemes, which will be destined to fail,of course.

 

Hare Krsna

[Govindaram]

 

BELIEVE IT! well? no? why not? oh you know better.

 

Dooh stupid ego.

[Govindaram]

 

One of the offences to the Holy name, is also chanting while thinking anything you do will nulify your actions.

 

Please lets just practice KC in peace,

 

I am not a devotee yet, your not my Guru, neither do I look upon you for any guidance, bad behaviour or not, its natural to get into little heated exchanges, anyway, I though of this thread and your behaviour enrages me.

 

Calling me a demon? You can change your nick on paltalk a hundred times, I still know who you are.

 

Who do you think you are? and for the matter who do you think I am? You should hone your preaching techniques more, we both know what this is about, you are a SANYASI, by the way good job on editing your post, I hope after this post I get banned, I refuce ever to associate with devotees who accuse me, degrade me, put me down, do not hide behind the garb of a Vaishnava, BE a Vaishnava.