The Advaita School Of Changes

[Guest guest]

The Advaita School Of Changes

 

 

Dear Prabhus:

 

I am not a writer or a philosopher but a fallen devotee who came to Krishna Consciousness because of the unlimited mercy of Srila Prabhupada by receiving "Bhagavad Gita As It Is" on the 6th of January 1970. One of your contributors advised me to submit this letter retelling of my experiences with the changes made to Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita .

 

I was serving in Vrindaban, India in 1984-86 as manager of the BBT, leader of book distribution and Bhakta Program Director under the direction Srila Gopal Krishna Goswami, who was my initiating spiritual master. At the time we had a very enthusiastic group of Sankirtan Book Distributors and had also organized the Gurukuli's to distribute books from a Traveling Bus. When the new editions of the Bhagavad Gita came to us, the attraction of the new edition caused many of the Sankirtan devotees, the new Bhaktas in the bhakta Program and the Gurukuli's to want the new edition, so I obliged by giving them the new edition in exchange for their old copies. However for some reason I was very attached to my old edition that had made me a devotee so I kept it.

 

At that time there was a Bhakti Shastri course guided by Jagadish Maharaj (GBC member and Iskcon's Minister of Education) that many Sankirtan Devotees attended and many Gurukuli's .. When the marathon came at the end of the year I was enthusiastic to engage as many devotees as I could, especially the older Gurukilis, I had always believed that distributing Srila Prabhupada's books was the best way of repaying him for having delivered me from ignorance. However I noticed that many of the devotees had sort of dried up, many Sankirtan devotees and the Bhaktas had no choice but to join the Marathon, but none of the Gurukulis wanted to engage in sankirtan. So we continued with the Marathon arrangements as best as we could and I had obtained permission to set up a large stall in a busy marketplace in Gwalior and left a party of devotees there. When I came back one week later, I found they had given up the place and were in some obscure fair outside the city and doing very poorly, so we had an istaghosti and I took my old Bhagavad Gita and turned to chapter 18 verses 13-14 and read:

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

O mighty-armed Arjuna, learn from me of the five factors which bring about the accomplishment of all action. These are declared in the sankhya philosophy to be the place of action, the performer, the senses, the endeavor, and ultimately Supersoul.

 

 

So I explained that I had investigated the best place to set up our book stall (location, location, location) and they had to follow up with the rest of the factors and Krishna as the Supersoul would do the rest. So then one of the devotees in the party opened his book ( the new edition revised and changed by Jayadvaita Swami) and said: "That is not what it says here, it says that adhistanam is the body"

 

SO I LOOKED IN AMAZEMENT FOR THE FIRST TIME AT THE BHAGAVAD GITAS WE WERE DISTRIBUTING AND REALIZED INDEED THE PHILOSOPHY HAD BEEN CHANGED.

 

From then on I started investigating the changes, how they had occurred and how extensively and importantly these sacred book had been tampered with, of course at that time no-one wanted to hear me out, I wrote a paper on this and it was burnt, I interviewed many GBC's. Hridayananda Das Goswami called me a "lousy philosopher" but my paper demonstrated that many of the changes were serious attempts to change Srila Prabhupada's very practical explanations of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's philosophy towards the Advaita School (Jay Advaita!)

 

I finally met with my initiating spiritual master Srila Gopal Krishna Goswami at the Mayapura festival and he said that Jayadvaita Swami had investigated the original tapes dictated by Srila Prabhupada and revised the text to the real original version. So I asked Srila Gopal Krishna Goswami: "Then, whose version is this one through which I became a devotee?" He answered: "That is Hayagriva's version" ..

 

The next day I was leaving Mayapura and before I boarded the boat Srila Bhaktisvarup Dhamodar Goswami came and asked me: "Why are you leaving Mayapur in the middle of the festival, you have so many managerial responsibilities in Vrindabana?"

 

I answered: "My spiritual master told me that this book that made me a devotee and which presented this philosophy so perfectly that I wanted to surrender my life to its author was written by Hayagriva Das, therefore I have to find him and surrender to him."

 

When I met Hayagriva Das who was still alive at the time, he told me that if he had changed so much as a coma in the manuscripts he was editing for Srila Prabhupada he would have been sauced so badly, it was definitely not possible to change anything in his presence.

 

At that time I took refuge of Srila Kirtananada Swami who was also vociferous about the changes and had been expelled from ISKCON at that Mayapura GBC meeting. and when I asked him about the benefits of distributing the new Bhagavad Gita and also the lack of enthusiasm I had encountered in the devotees who were reading the new Bhagavad Gita , he said " MILK TOUCHED BY THE LIPS OF A SERPENT CAUSES A POISONOUS EFFECT"

 

I have seen with great delight the new edition of the original version of the Bhagavad Gita As it Is by Srila Prabhupada, complete with beautiful original pictures, I am as I said at the beginning of the letter in a very fallen state and have committed many offenses to many vaishnavas so I am begging forgiveness from all those who may read this and remember that I have offended them, and also ask for the mercy of everyone so that I may be able to distribute this original version to the conditioned souls, I am trying to obtain a permit to set up a book table at the Port Authority in New York, I think this is one of the ideal places to distribute books in New York City, if anyone is interested in doing sankirtan there please contact me by e-mail at: washingtonlakeretreat@

 

Chaitanya Charitamrita Das

 

 

------------an article found at http://adi-vani.org

[Dervish]

And where might I purchase one of these 1972 Bhagavad Gitas?

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

 

before you get the original Gita, please know that you should change two words of chapter 18 verse 44: change "cattle raising" to "cow protection." His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada wanted this change made to it, and for the rest of the book, i believe, he approved it as it was.

 

think about it. most definitely Srila Prabhupada would not have approved the changes. all He wanted was 1 change(from what i have come to know); He did not want anywhere close to "800" changes. most definitely He would most definitely not have approved of the changes.

 

To get to your question Dervish prabhu, last time i checked(about 10 seconds before typing this), this book is available at:

http://www.asitis.com

 

just click on: "Purchase the Book" in the left of the page, and then select the Gita on the page that pops up.

 

the description for the book on the website is:

Original 1972 Complete edition. With translations and elaborate purports by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

The Bhagavad-gita is universally renowned as the jewel of India's spiritual wisdom. Spoken by Lord Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead to His intimate disciple Arjuna, the Gita's seven hundred concise verses provide a definitive guide to the science of self realization.

 

No other philosophical or religious work reveals, in such a lucid and profound way, the nature of consciousness, the self, the universe and the Supreme.

 

Bhagavad Gita As It Is is the largest-selling, most widely used edition of the Gita in the world.

 

 

Special Features

 

Original Sanskrit Text

English equivalent for each Sanskrit word

Elaborate commentary

Complete glossary

Complete verse index

High readability

Profuse full-color illustrations

Original 1972 Complete edition. With translations and elaborate purports by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

Hard-cover, 1008 pages, 48 color plates. 6" x 9"

 

 

-------KrishnaBhakta

[gHari]

Man, that guy who leaves his guru and jumps on a boat to surrender to Hayagriva sounds completely off the wall to me. I wonder what his guru, Gopal Krishna has done with him? I wonder what Krsna has done with him. This is no one to be following. And no one to be reasoned with, it seems.

 

[Guest guest]

it seems that he had decided to completely surrender by reading the Bhagavada Gita As It Is original version. and when he learned that the book that caused him to change so much was by someone besides Srila Prabhupada. maybe he did not know that no one else could create a more perfect literature. anyways, there is no need to insult someone because he/she is misguided by someone else.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

 

you may say whatever you like prabhu, but Srila Prabhupada approved the 1972 version of the Gita, but did want the change in chapter 18 verse 44: "cattle raising" to "cow protection." do you think that He would have approved the 800 or so changes to the Bhagavada Gita As It Is? I don't think so.

 

Hare Krishna

[gHari]

Die by the sword.

 

[gHari]

As recounted by H. H. Jayadvaita Swami:<blockquote>For those who have questions about the editing of Srila Prabhupada’s books, examining those First Canto revisions should be a very fruitful exercise.

 

And here’s a relevant story.

 

Four years after the first edition, the second edition came out, with the translations for the first two chapters extensively revised.

 

I am the person who did the revisions.

 

After I’d prepared the work, and before it was printed, I neatly typed all the revised translations for Srila Prabhupada to see and put them in an envelope with a letter of explanation. And when Srila Prabhupada next visited New York, I brought the envelope to his quarters to leave for him.

 

But I found Srila Prabhupada right there before me, and he chose to deal with the matter at once. He had me sit before him and told me to start reading out loud. As he listened attentively, I began.

 

After I had read a few verses, Srila Prabhupada stopped me. ‘So,’ he said. ‘What you have done?’

 

I replied, ‘I’ve revised the translations, Srila Prabhupada, mainly to bring them closer to what you originally said.’

 

‘What I have said?’

 

‘Yes, Srila Prabhupada.’

 

Srila Prabhupada made a dismissive gesture with his hand and said, ‘Then it is all right.’</blockquote>

Get the truth: <a href=http://www.krishna.com/newsite/downloads/responsible_publishing.pdf>DOWNLOAD booklet describing the editing</A>

 

 

[Govindaram]

 

I have no idea about all this stuff,

but the above doesn't sound like something

His Divine Grace would say. HK

[gHari]

The vedabase finds "Then it is all right" 146 times. Here are a few from lectures:<blockquote>So this perplexity, "Whether I shall fight or not fight," that will be explained that "Yes, you must fight for KRSNa. Then it is all right."

 

When KRSNa says "This is all right," then it is all right. When KRSNa says it is not right, then it is not right.

 

You cannot make your own morality. No. If KRSNa says "This is all right," then it is all right. Otherwise, it is not.

 

He can test himself, "How far I am prepared?" Then it is all right. This is the standard. All right. Chant Hare KRSNa.

 

So if we worship demigods as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, then it is all right.

 

But the test is whether you have learned to love God. That is all right. Then it is all right.

 

But if you use that cheating propensity for KRSNa's satisfaction, then it is all right.

 

If you receive knowledge from the person who is liberated, then it is all right.</blockquote>

 

[Govindaram]

 

ok, but I think the quote used, was long before His Divine Grace was present in body, and to use it Now, to makes changes is not good. I am seeing ppls making quotes not in context, and when you look again, you can see whats being said, I think Gaura Purnima made me see stuff which I didn't notice before heh.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna

 

prabhu, no offense, but you make it seem like Srila Prabhupada never cared to even look once at His Bhagavada Gita As It Is after it had been printed in 1972. yes, he wanted the correction of 'cattle raising' to 'cow protection'. not 800 changes. if he did want those changes, he would have demanded that.

 

Hare Krishna

[gHari]

Letter 1976:<blockquote>Concerning the editing of Jayadvaita Prabhu, whatever he does is approved by me. I have confidence in him. Your changes which I have seen of the sanskrit synonyms is also approved by me. Tanmayataya refers to the fact that the trees and the father were absorbed in the same feelings.</blockquote>

June 1977:<blockquote>TamAla KRSNa: Your original work that you're doing now, that is edited by JayAdvaita. That's the first editing.

PrabhupAda: He is good.

TamAla KRSNa: He is good. But then, after they print the books, they're going over. So when they reprint...

PrabhupAda: So how to check this? How to stop this?

TamAla KRSNa: They should not make any changes without consulting JayAdvaita.

PrabhupAda: But they are doing without any authority.

SvarUpa DAmodara: I think we should make whole survey, all books already printed, before printing the next batch and check any mistakes so that it should be all corrected. Otherwise, if the scholars find out that there are so many mistakes in the books, then the quality and the appreciation will be reduced.

GirirAja(?): (indistinct)

SvarUpa DAmodara: Yes. We find so far that they are appreciating so much within the scholarly circle, and we want to maintain that actually.

PrabhupAda: Very serious feature. It is not possible for me to check, and they are doing all nonsense, freedom. (pause)

YazodA-nandana: Jaya SrIla PrabhupAda.

PrabhupAda: What to do?

TamAla KRSNa: I think SvarUpa DAmodara's point, that all the books should now be checked before they're reprinted again... And they have to be checked not by some so-called learned Sanskrit man but by a learned devotee. Just like you always favored JayAdvaita because his KRSNa consciousness...

PrabhupAda: JayAdvaita, SatsvarUpa...

YazodA-nandana: Bhakti-prema, SatsvarUpa is there.

TamAla KRSNa: So Bhakti-prema... That's a good solution.

PrabhupAda: Yes.

TamAla KRSNa: You know, the real point is that the Sanskrit is often not translated properly in the translation, what NitAi and others have done.

PrabhupAda: He's a rascal. That's... He's finding out guru and job for filling the belly. That is the latest news.

TamAla KRSNa: What is he doing?

PrabhupAda: To find out some job to fill up the belly. Otherwise he'll starve if he doesn't get any job. And he's finding out guru. Job-guru. Now do the needful. Otherwise everything will be spoiled. These rascal editorial... That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) HayagrIva has changed so many things.

TamAla KRSNa: He actually took out the whole part about their going to the moon being childish. He deleted the whole section.

YazodA-nandana: Also in the BhAgavatam, where PrabhupAda was talking about Lord Buddha... You mentioned that if the followers of Lord Buddha do not close the slaughterhouse, there is no meaning to such a caricature. That word was very nice. But in new book that word is not there any more. They have pulled the word. The meaning of the word is not... So many times.

PrabhupAda: It is very serious situation. RAmezvara is in direct...

SvarUpa DAmodara: I think they're working too independently without consulting properly.

YazodA-nandana: Sometimes they appeal that "We can make better English," so they change like that, just like in the case of IzopaniSad. There are over a hundred changes. So where is the need? Your words are sufficient. The potency is there. When they change, it is something else.

SvarUpa DAmodara: That's actually a very dangerous mentality.

YazodA-nandana: What is it going to be in five years? It's going to be a different book.

PrabhupAda: So you... What you are going... It is very serious situation. You write one letter that "Why you have made so many changes?" And whom to write? Who will care? All rascals are there. Write to SatsvarUpa that "This is the position. They are doing anything and everything at their whim." The next printing should be again to the original way.

TamAla KRSNa: They should have a board of SatsvarUpa and JayAdvaita.

PrabhupAda: Hm.

TamAla KRSNa: Those two men are both in Los Angeles now.

PrabhupAda: So write them immediately that "The rascal editors, they are doing havoc, and they are being maintained by RAmezvara and party."

TamAla KRSNa: Sometimes there's a fear that some word will be unpopular, and on account of desire to gain popularity or acceptance, they lessen the strength of the word. They change the word. They choose a word which is more so-called acceptable.

SvarUpa DAmodara: Same thing is with the Back to Godhead. Just publish some photo, try to change so many things in order to make it popularized. They have been doing that even with the philosophy. (pause)

Satadhanya: I remember when RAmezvara was here, he had mentioned that in one article you had denounced the Christians strongly, so he said he left one part out because he was afraid there would be a bad reaction from the Christians in America.

PrabhupAda: That is possible. That is possible. He should be careful. Then?

TamAla KRSNa: I think in addition to SatsvarUpa and JayAdvaita checking the English, that Bhakti-prema MahArAja has to check all the Sanskrit of all of the books... He's translating now, so as he's translating, he can check. He's going, starting from the First Canto.

SvarUpa DAmodara: I think this is very appropriate, because checking English doesn't have any meaning without checking the Sanskrit, the original.

TamAla KRSNa: There was one verse in the Fifth Canto. From the way that they translated it, there was no way that anyone could possibly have understood what the verse meant. I mean, it was made unintelligible by the translation. So we were reading. Finally Bhakti-prema says, "Wait a minute. This translation is wrong. They have edited an extra statement here that is not there, and it makes it completely not understandable." Then suddenly, when he corrected the Sanskrit, it was easy to understand. It was very clear.

PrabhupAda: So what to do?

TamAla KRSNa: So I think we just have to be slow but sure. We have to go over all of the books and make sure that they're perfect before they're printed again. Not be in such a rush, print, print, and print all nonsense.

SvarUpa DAmodara: One time I had a strong talk with RAmezvara MahArAja about our article for printing in the Back to Godhead. I didn't want them to be printed in Back to Godhead because they made so many changes...

PrabhupAda: Oh, he has dared to change yours also?

SvarUpa DAmodara: Oh, yes. They change so many things in our article. And it was on the telephone. I was speaking to him in Atlanta from Los Angeles. And I told him that "This article should not be printed because they have made so many changes." And I didn't like that. Then they answered that "It has already been offset, and BBT policy is always to be rushing. It's always BBT policy." Then I told him that "If you sacrifice quality on the strength of rushing, then it is your business, but that's not my way, so please don't print it." But in any case, they have printed anyway that article. And we all had a bad reaction.

PrabhupAda: So you bring this to SatsvarUpa. They cannot change anything.

TamAla KRSNa: (indistinct)

SvarUpa DAmodara: So we stopped writing article for Back to Godhead since then because...

TamAla KRSNa: Now, I think, with SatsvarUpa there, you won't have that problem of changing like that. He wrote a letter saying that one of his first things is that he will not change what is given there unless... He will not make changes.

SvarUpa DAmodara: No, if they consult us, even with changing, that's all right. But they just edit here and there and cut it out, certain things. They're changing the whole meaning. And that makes sometimes nonsense instead of making sense.

PrabhupAda: So on the whole, these dangerous things are going on. How to check it?

TamAla KRSNa: There has to be strong philosophical leaders who can check this, like SatsvarUpa and JayAdvaita.

PrabhupAda: Hm.

TamAla KRSNa: They have to also be included in the decisions of the BBT. It can't simply be that managers make decisions.

PrabhupAda: Yes. Without their sanction, there will be... Let them... These all rascals...

SvarUpa DAmodara: One time in that article they made a change. Saying that, the whole VaiSNava philosophy became MAyAvAdI in that scientific article. So I told them that "You are better than..., a better (indistinct)." It all become MAyAvAdI, so it became all mad. That is why I strongly told them that "This shouldn't be the way. If you want to change, you have to consult with those who are writers."

PrabhupAda: So they are doing very freely and dangerously. And this rascal is always after change, RAdhA-vallabha. He's a great rascal. (pause) Read.</blockquote>

 

[Govindaram]

 

I hope jayadvaita prabhuji is doing all the translating work then? or?

[gHari]

I think that quote does show that Prabhupada did authorize changes to the Bhagavatam years after its initial printing, and that the criteria for acceptance included that the changes brought the works closer to Prabhupada's intended wording. It also again demonstrates Prabhupada's confidence in H. H. Jayadvaita Swami which is noted directly several other times in this thread.

 

 

[Guest guest]

whose word is more important to you? Prabhupada or Jayadvaita?

 

yes, Prabhupada trusted him, but Prabhupada also accepted the Gita as it was, with one necessary change.

 

Hare Krishna

[Govindaram]

 

I got to say that I first came into contact with Krishna and Prabhupada through the 2nd edition of Gita, so it can't be all that bad, in another thread Stonehearted (Babhru Prabhuji) said whatever you prefer, I think very wise words indeed.

 

Ps. Thankyou Ghari Prabhuji for handling this in a Vaishnava way, lots more to say, but lifes to short.

 

HARIBOL! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gHari]

Have you read the explanations for some of the changes that are documented in the links provided in this thread?

 

I think it is a positive service that has been performed for Srila Prabhupada, for us, and for the world by His Holiness Jayavaita Swami. I also think Srila Prabhupada would approve. Some changes are minor, yes, but many are needed corrections and likely Prabhupada would agree to make even the minor corrections if a new version is required. It does, after all, present more Prabhupada to the world.

 

Those who relish the Gita as their life will certainly enjoy reading about the changes, seeing Prabhupada's real words, getting more Prabhupada; especially people who really only know the early version.

 

Be very careful criticizing, for we are likely to be trying to refute original Prabhupada in the changes.

 

Unlike the lead article in this thread, I am not about to leave my guru in a quest to find the illusive original Gita, but I think Jayadvaita is doing us all a great service in trying to uncover the real original Bhagavad-gita as it was, as it was actually written by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

I seriously doubt that Prabhupada would appreciate having his trusted disciple and favoured editor ridiculed like a two-headed monster. People engaged in such aparadha are not to be taken seriously, if taken at all.

 

gHari

BTW, had you read the June 1977 conversation quoted above you could have seen Srila Prabhupada placing Jayadvaita and Satsvarupa in charge of examining all books before the next reprinting. One can only assume that this would include the Gita.