Hrisikesh movie:A global revival of Srila Prabhupada and Gaudiya Siddhanta?

[Guest guest]

This is what I meant to say, as certainly there are many sincere bumble-bee-like disciples and grand-disciples of Srila Sridhara Maharaja. Sometimes on the Internet, sadly, the most vocal disciples sometimes give the impression that they speak for everyone in their line.

 

"Srila Sridhara Maharaja was reknowned for reconciling apparent differences and contradictions. Unfortunately, some of his disciples and granddisciples are unable and unwilling to follow in his footsteps."

 

All glories to Srila Sridhara Maharaja!

 

---DS

[Guest guest]

Thank you. In 1968 I went to Mayapur with Srila Bon Maharaj to attend the Golden Anniversary of the Gaudiya Math. All the disciples of BSSP were there at the huge festival (except ACBSP).

I was the ONLY mletcha present out of one lakh of devotees.

 

During that time I also went with Bon Mj to visit his very dear friend Srila Sridhar Mj. I watched as they hugged and wept together. It is one of the most powerful things I have ever seen. I was very impressed with Srila Sridhar Mj and his disciples (whom I stayed with). There was NO DOUBT that Bon Mj and Sridhar Mj were VERY DEAR GODBROTHERS. I am an "EYE WITNESS" not a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th hand hear-say.

 

All glories to the disciples of Srila Sarasvati Thakur. Offensive thinking against them is the surest way to make ACBSP displeased.

 

Hare Krishna!!!

 

Y/s,

Hrsikesananda das ACBSP/BHVM

[Guest guest]

I am Hrsikesananda ACBSP:1967

 

EYE - WITNESS!!!

 

And it is MY opinion, based to seeing Babaji Mj and hearing his glories both from Srila Bon Mj as well as ACBSPrabhupada.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I said "Who are you to judge the amount of prema amongst siddha devotees?"

 

In reply you state:

I am Hrsikesananda ACBSP:1967

 

EYE - WITNESS!!!

 

 

What more needs to be said?

 

 

Paramahansa Srila Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj, who had more Prema than all his godbrothers put together...

 

 

I still contend you have no qualification to judge that someone "had more Prema than all his godbrothers put together".

 

Explain how exactly you were able to measure their prema with your mundane eyes?

[Guest guest]

I used a yard stick from Sears.

 

Enjoy yourself!!

 

Y/s,

Hrsikesananda das

[Guest guest]

Me thinks the Character of Krishna Das Babaji Maharaj, who was chanting and laughing and crying ALL THE TIME and NEVER sleeping, will be the hardest part to play in the movie.

 

All glories to Akinchan Krishna Das Babaji Mj. His samadhi is located at Bon Maharaj's Ashram in Nandagram (formally Bhajan Kutir of Srila Sanatan Goswami). And Nandagram will also be in the film.

 

Krishna Willing!!!

[theist]

 

I used a yard stick from Sears.

 

 

Strikes me as just a way to brush off a very serious question that went to the heart of the matter. Offer a flippant response back and hope the original point gets forgotten.

 

Perhaps you would like to try again.

 

JNdas asked:

 

 

Explain how exactly you were able to measure their prema with your mundane eyes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rsbj]

OF COURSE: It is my opinion!!!

[rsbj]

http://www.richardshawbrown.com/mysticarticles/Babaji.html

[theist]

That's fair and honest. We all have opinions and express them.

[Guest guest]

Wasn't there some pastime involving both Sri Krsna das Bhabaji and Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja in Mayapur many years ago? I believe I may have read it somewhere, perhaps in Madhavananda prabhu's magazine based on lectures and pastimes of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja. Perhaps JNDas may know more. I think something happened such as SGGM fainting in Mayapura, and most of the devotees assumed it was a health problem. But, SKD Babaji M said no, that SGGM was experiencing symptoms of bhava.

 

While we're on the subject of discussing prema, and who has it, that of course is a subjective matter. Some great Acaryas may, due to being involved in their preaching missions, externally subdue the symptoms of prema. Inwardly, however, their prema may have been just as intense as any of the many other pure stalwart devotees of the time. Just my opinion, not trying to debate the issue, just wishing to offer a possible explanation as to why one Saint would "appear" to have more prema/bhava than another.

 

By the way, Mr. Brown, I did go back and discover that you had written some nice articles on VNN about Srila Vana Maharaja and your stay with him for 6+ years. Nice pastimes. I may not necessarily agree with your opinion of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami and his Iskcon of the early days, but then, I guess we need to cut you some slack due to the fact that your experiences as a brahamacari while living with Bon Maharaja were much different than what the average Iskcon devotee was practicing. And, from what you wrote, there was a backlash from the Iskcon devotees against you, as well as something of a cultural shock when you left Srila Bon Maharaja's ashram to return to Iskcon.

 

I noted that in one of your articles you explained the pastime of which Murli accuses Srila Bon Maharaja. Half truths are more dangerous than outright lies. Thankyou for clarifying some of these things. That particular pastime reminded me of Chota Haridasa, and how he was banished by Lord Caitanya, but later, after he passed away, he became an angel and was serving Mahaprabhu by his song, unseen by anyone, except perhaps by the author of Sri Caitanya Caritamrita, being inspired within the heart.

 

---ds

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Here are a few selections from your website so others can have an idea of your views:

As I have repeatedly said before, by virtue of Vana Maharaja's face to face forgiving of Srila Prabhupada for his satam-ninda (apparently OFFENSIVE & UNTRUE STATEMENTS) so HDG is thus faultless.

 

 

...and I know that Srila Vana Maharaj came to visit HDG (along with Swami Vana's intimate friend Akincana Krsnadas Babaji Maharaj) shortly before HDG's disappearance and Srila Swami Maharaj directly asked Vana Maharaj for his forgiveness for any offenses; and he was forgiven. So Srila Swami Maharaj is clear of offensive.

 

 

According to you Srila Prabhupada was an aparadhi, but because he was latter forgiven there was no problem. So your view is that from the years from 1965-1977 Srila Prabhupada was an offensive person, a vaishnava-aparadhi, committer of the mad-elephant offense, etc.

 

 

NOTE: Iskcon devotees try to re-write history to show that only ACBSP was a GOOD devotee of Prabhupada, and that he is the 2nd coming of Christ. The TRUTH is that ACBSP was of little consequence during the time of Prabhupada. He lived outside the Gaudiya Mission and was never strictly trained in Gaudiya Math ashram life nor activities. That is the reason why there are so many discrepencies in Iskcon. Srila Swami Maharaj always said that he "would NEVER change anything of his Gurudev" (Prabhupada), but in fact many things got changed.

 

Here are just a few examples:

 

---There was never any Narasimha puja in any Gaudiya Math. And if there was to be, then the mantra used is from SB (Om namo bhagavate Narasimhaya......Om kshrom!) That is the bona fide Narasimha Mantra for all disciples of Prabhupada. So this separate Narasimha puja is a concoction.

 

---In Gaudiya Math the Panca-tattva and Maha-mantras are almost always sung in half stanzas followed by refrain. The complete mantras are almost NEVER sung together like always done in Iskcon.

 

---There is NO separate Guru-puja in any Gaudiya Matha, except on Vyasa puja day.

 

---There is never any one bowing down during Prema Dhavani prayers like the impractical Iskcon concoction.

 

---There are NEVER women living within any Gaudiya Matha ashram like in Iskcon life.

 

---There are mistakes in Prema-dhavani prayers such as the correct "Radha-Krsna, GOPA, GOPI GO,... which in Iskcon is said wrongly as GOPA GOPINATH.

 

---In Gaudiya Math, women are NEVER allowed to do the Salagrama and Arca-vigraha puja; and when they have their menstrual cycle they are not even allowed into the temple compound.

 

---In the bona fide Gaudiya Math spiritual words were never abbreviated like always done in Iskcon (Iskcon's name itself is an abbreviation!). When devotees greeted each other they said, "Dandavat!"...NOT "PAMHO!" or "AGTSP, "etc., etc. In Iskcon why not chant the Maha-mantra as, "HKHKKKHH, HRHRRRHH!?"

 

...And I could go on telling more of the endless differences where Srila Swami Maharaj has inadvertently changed many systems of Prabhupada and his Gaudiya Math. The entire taste of Gaudiya Vaisnavism is completely different in Iskcon than in the bona fide Gaudiya Math of Prabhupada Srila Saraswati Thakura.

 

 

Here you have pointed out many faults you perceive in the works and actions of Srila Prabhupada. The analogy of the fly being attracted to stool fits perfectly.

 

In my years living in and visiting many Gaudiya Math's as well as joining in over 2000 kirtans lead by paramahansa Krishnadas Babaji Maharaj (the personification of PERFECT kirtana), the method was always to sing the mantras one stanza at a time followed by the refrain (just like all other Gaudiya songs are sung).

 

But in Iskcon they NEVER use this sublime and bona fide method, and it is even seen that Iskcon devotees are unable or unwilling to follow the correct Gaudiya Matha system of Srila Sarasvati Prabhupada himself. In fact, most Iskcon people are unqualified to join in any bona fide Gaudiya Math kirtana because of Iskcon's CONTRARY separatist kirtan style.

 

 

Let's see... because ISKCON devotees sing the full mahamantra at one time like Srila Prabhupada taught them, therefore they are unqualified to partake in "bonafide" kirtan. Wow, that's the statement of a genious.

 

Anyone who raises complaints against Srila Prabhupada because he didn't break the maha-mantra in half when singing it is either insane or envious. Someone has spread Krishna consciousness and the chanting of the maha-mantra throughout the world and you want to complain that he has concocted a new system for chanting the maha-mantra that makes the chanters unqualified.

 

For someone who professes the importance of not offending devotees its amazing how many general insults are hurled at devotees on your website.

[rsbj]

My views and web sites are an open book. Everyone says what they believe. Those old quotes were written in 1990s and are just a tiny fraction of my opinions on various subjects... all of which are public.

 

In fact, we are making a movie that also shows the differences in life styles of both insider Gaudiya Math as also insider Iskcon. So we can let the world decide what's funny and what's sad.

 

If the public buy tickets our Producers will be satisfied.

 

Right now Christ is WAY WAY WAY ahead at the box office... lets hope Lord Hari wishes to take over.

 

The sooner the better!!

 

Hare Krishna!!!

http://www.richardshawbrown.com

http://www.agt-gems.com

http://www.hrisikesh.com

http://www.hrisikesh.net

http://www.themisunderstood.com

http://www.astralgemstonetalismans.com

[ancient_paztriot]

Thankyou JNdas for pointing out what hypocrites people can be.

 

Too often I see devotees defending their philosophy or personal integrity to bigger hypoocrites than them. It is draining. I try to save myself the pain and it's moments like these that I think "what a smart boy am I". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

I thought of a keyword earlier that really describes this progressive world and how people deal with each other: Um 'pretext'… cheating… some angle. (And shameless too I think).

[Guest guest]

Here I was asking others to cut you a little slack. Then a few quotes from your website are brought to light, you don't deny them, you don't apologize for anything you said. One would think that someone in his mid-50's would have mellowed out a bit by now. Who cares if you wrote these things in the early '90's. You can always edit what you've written. Or grow with the changing times.

 

I respect Srila Bon Maharaja. But you, sir, Mr. Brown, are an offender el numero uno.

 

I apologize to the assembled devotees for having defended this person to some degree. I never checked out his website, so I did not know what his true feelings were.

 

---ds

[Guest guest]

The real problem I have is that Hrishikeshananda das seems to be suggesting that Bon Maharaj is senior in realization and devotion to Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

Many devotees will not like to see any storyline like that being made into a movie for the general public. And with good reason.

 

Do you really want to know who is senior? I suggest you compare the translations and commentaries of Bon Maharaj to verse 1.2.291 of Bhaktirasamrtasindhu with the Bengali edition of BRS by Srila Sridhar Maharaj, and with the corresponding section of the Nectar of Devotion by Srila Prabhupada. Bon Maharaj's translation to this very important verse is wrong. His views expressed in his commentary are also wrong. They are totally at odds with what Srila Rupa Goswami was saying in BRS; totally the opposite of what Srila Sridhar Maharaj and Srila Prabhupada presented.

 

[theist]

Some years ago on the old VNN forums a rauckus debate was in session with Mr. Brown. At one point he made the statement about how he was going to round up a bunch of people and they would all go piss on Prabhupada's samadhi.

 

Every since then I have held a desire to smash this ____ing ass in the mouth.

 

I thought of that many times today and my anger remains fresh. Perhaps he repented of that and I missed it. Somehow I doubt it.

[ancient_paztriot]

"… Perhaps he repented of that and I missed it. Somehow I doubt it."

 

I said 'shameless' in my earlier post because these people know enough to argue, but when they don't accept the standard philosophy and precepts which they cannot defeat, their 'pretext' is revealed. Some of them are proudly marching to the darkest depths of hell.

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees,

 

The statement made in the post which is being replied to contains a falsehood. Rumors run crazy. I am the direct and best witness what I think and feel, and I never felt disrespect for Srila Prabhupada, what to speak of such an ugly, disgusting idea. Inconcievable!

 

I have only fond and loving memories of my personal time with His Divine Grace, for which I am eternally thankful. FACT: I gave up the GM to rejoin Srila Prabhupada. And we remained in touch until his disapperance. And as I worship Srila Prabhupada every day I feel I'm still very much in touch.

 

I'm very sorry if any one feels hurt because of any real words I may have written some time ago. The examples posted earlier should be taken in context in which they were written around nine years ago, and that was an attempt to defend the Gaudiya Matha and show things from their point of view. In the Gaudiya Mathas they call each other my their names, like Swami Maharaj or Sridhar Maharaj, and no Gaudiya Matha member will ever use the title "Prabhupada" to mean any one other than Srila Saraswati Thakura. This is true just as in the present case with Iskcon that no one will be called as "Prabhupada" among disciples on down. So speaking in defense of the GM it was necessary to make all the disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakura as equal... remember, it's NOT only mletcha disciples that "count."

 

And in stating those things I have only pointed out the factual truth. I have not said a single wrong or untrue thing. Obviously HDG and all his god-brothers had a life BEFORE Iskcon. It may be called "jati-buddhi," but those words were spoken in defense of the GM who are seen and spoken of by Iskcon in jati-buddhi terms, e.g., "envious black snakes," which they are NOT.

 

If we want Srila Prabhupada to be treated with the respect he deserves then kindly offer the same respects to other devotees of Srila Sarasvati Prabhupada. Jati buddhi always works two ways. Iskcon people like to "dish out" jati-buddhi, but they can't swallow it themselves. Just consider the way you feel if HDG is disrespected and know that the disciples of other Gurus feel the SAME WAY! There are always two sides to everything. If you don't like "jati-buddhi" then don't "use it."

 

Actually I had written this forum only to clarify some matters concerning a movie project with Srila Prabhupada. In this movie HDG is featured as a great jagat-guru and my spiritual master. And the tug-of-war ends with Srila Prabhupada as the compassionate victor. Just the way it really happened!

 

Please wish the best of Krishna's blessings on this film project because it contains two important elements:

 

1) A dramatic story

2) Lord Chaitanya's teachings, dham & devotees

---------------------

= "ordinary people" might actually go to watch it.

 

It is not my wish to engage in arguments. And that is all I have to say on the matter.

 

Thank you.

 

Y/s,

Hrsikesananda das

 

Niti-shastra: Three things are beyond the creation of Brahma: 1) fragrance in gold, 2) non-withering of flower garlands, and 3) non-envy in a listener.

 

[theist]

 

 

The statement made in the post which is being replied to contains a falsehood. Rumors run crazy. I am the direct and best witness what I think and feel, and I never felt disrespect for Srila Prabhupada, what to speak of such an ugly, disgusting idea. Inconcievable!

 

 

No falsehood at all. I read it first hand. I do agree it is an ugly, disgusting idea.

 

You may have changed since then or maybe just genuinely forgotton. But I felt branded by those shocking words and remember them all too well. Inconceiveable? One would have thought so.

 

[Guest guest]

No need to suffer needlessly. If you "think" you read something that said what you think, then perhaps you could RE-read it just to be sure your understanding and memory serve you right. I NEVER wrote such a thing as you say I said. Not me.

 

So calm down and stop suffering. All disciples, good, bad, and ugly, love Srila Prabhupada.

 

But jati-buddhi hati-mata "in HDG's name" is unaccepable. And how it feels to you is the same as it feels when I hear, "Prabhupada said (some sadhu-ninda) and we think like that too." If Prabhupada ever criticized his Godbrothers it was "His business" and HDG clearly said, "Among brothers we sometimes talk, but you (disciples) can't think like that!"

 

I am Srila Prabhupada's well-wisher and I want him to be glorified by the really significant GOOD activities of his few disciples who have what it takes to become world-famous and thereby make HDG look SUPER GOOD. HDG is glorified by any good and great activities of his disciples.

 

Please chant and don't hate... hate is like taking poisen (one-self) and wishing the other person would die. If you want to hate someone then hate Hitler. He deserves it!

[stonehearted]

I'm not always happy to read some of the things Hrishikesha has posted, and I have mixed feelings about the prospect of the movie about him, as I have expressed here. But I agree with him that some of these posts criticizing him seem unfair. I agree that we make a big mistake repeating any criticism Srila Prabhupada made of any of his Godbrothers, and in repeating any of the Godbrothers' barbs against Bon Maharaja. As Hrishikehsa says, that's their business, not ours. A Godbrother of mine recently told me that he heard a tape of a morning walk (I believe) on which Harikesha Maharaja (again, I think) repeated something he had heard about Bon Maharaja, and Srila Prabhupada cut him off ot the knees, making it very clear that we were not to say such things.

 

The deal here is that whether the movie will move forward or not is in the hands of the producers, not yours or mine. Ultimately, Krishna's sanction is the ultimate factor. Let's just hope that any presentation of disagreements among Godbrothers will help viewers understand Lrod Chaitanya's teachings, rather than obscure them.

[theist]

not hard to misinterpret. Nor do i intend get entangled. Trying to take the high ground now just won't work on me. Calling me a hater is a simple smokescreen.

 

 

[theist]

So when did I say anything about Bon Maharaja? I don't know anything about him. In fact that was the gist of the arguement he was having with others and his retort was the infamous statement as I posted above.

 

I really have no interest in continuing this.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear devotees,

 

For those who live by hear-say and ugly rumors and who might suffer under the impression that I am not respectful of Srila Prabhupada please consider:

 

1) My son wears Srila Prabhupada's samadhi-dust in a tube around his neck since he was born; I respectfully collected the dust with my own hands before the samadhi was built;

 

2) In 1996 I was one of less than 10 Srila Prabhupada disciples who attended the Centennial in Vrindavan at the actual Samadhi. I was one of six people who lifted Srila Prabhupada's heavy Sri Murti from the sharp, slippery marble and placed back on his Vyasasan after maha-abisheka (that was really dangerous);

 

3) I was initiated By Srila Prabhupada in 1967 and thought he wanted me to stay with Bon Maharaj in his absence. When I found out that Bon Mj had intercepted Prabhupada's letters for me to return, I immediately left Bon Maharaj and returned to Srila Prabhupada in Mayapur (even I had no passport and was a fugitive);

 

4) I spent 3 weeks living with Srila Prabhupada in Mayapur and Calcutta and he was delighted to speak in Bengali for hours and to discuss things. During this time I suggested to HDG that he could translate Sri Upadeshamrita quickly as it was only 11 verses. So Srila Prabhupada stopped his CC translations and with my help as well as the help of Sri Satsvarupa Maharaj and Panditji, he completed the book (Nectar of Devotion) in two weeks. When HDG departed India I was entrusted with the only MSS which I took to Bombay - after a careful edit by Harikesh Brahmachari I posted the MSS to Srila Prabhupada in London. The publication came out afterwards.

 

5) While in Mayapura I spent a lot of time with HDG for many hours every day, and lived with Srutakirti, his servant. We spoke in Bengali and I had serious talks with Srila Prabhupada and these memories can be read by clicking:

http://www.richardshawbrown.com/mysticarticles/Smarana.html

 

6) I also worship Srila Prabhupada in my home and heart along with Sri Salagram Shila every day as instructed by Srila Prabhupada in writing before his disappearance (ref. Database).

 

7) Srila Prabhupada is my "Hare Nama" and "Shiksa Guru" and I read his books every day since 1967 (even while living in Vrindavan).

 

8) I have never said anything that I wouldn't discuss with Srila Prabhupada himself. Example: Mayapur in 1973 I was shown the Sannyas-Mantra by Satsvarupa M and noted it was wrong. Satsvarupa was offended. So he, Srutakirti, and I went in the next room to ask Srila Prabhupada. I told Srila Prabhupada that I had heard the mantra differently. Prabhupada instructed Satsvarupa to change the Gopi-gayatri to it's correct form and notify the sannyasis about the mistake.

 

9) I maintain a web presence for Srila Prabhupada since 1995 at http://www.richardshawbrown.com/mysticarticles/acbsp.html

 

Now it is up to your differing opinions to decide if I am a real disciple of Srila Prabhupada or not???

 

I just want to lay the absurd rumors of envious people to rest. "Only the mighty will have enemies! Who will kick a dead dog?"

 

The above is my position and relationship with Srila Prabhupada. If anyone has any doubts about any rumors to the contrary please read this again and then decide for yourself where I stand.

 

Hare Krishna!!!

Y/s,

Hrsikesananda das ACBSP:1967