Hrisikesh movie:A global revival of Srila Prabhupada and Gaudiya Siddhanta?

[theist]

Nobody is trying to judge you. I was upset by the statement you made years back and it stuck with me. You deny or don't remember it, I do. You were engaged with others in that old argumenet about the Bon-Black Snake comment. I figure you were really just lashing out against them and trying to hurt them in a way that they had done to you, for many years perhaps.

 

You also wrote that Srila Prabhupada was a committer of the mad elephant offence. You also said your returning to Prabhupada in Mayapur was "unfortunate". Those editorials are still visible on VNN. I understand your your troubles with ISKCON. Perhaps those lines between ISKCON and Prabhupada get blurred sometimes.

 

I also acknowledge that you have written many many more kind words of appreciation towards His Divine Grace.

 

I also understand that you have lived a most unique life and done much valuable service. My life compared to yours appears at the same time both comical and sad. In fact the bulk of my life can also be seen as an offense to Srila Prabhupada and all he stands for. I really don't want to get into, or prolong, another rift with a superior.

 

I wrote what I wrote above and I stand by it, although expressing it seems to have been a cathartic enough experience for me that I have been freed from my anger towards you.

 

A stanza from Bhaktivinode has just appeared in my mind.

 

"Forget the past that sleeps

And ner' the future dream at all

Act in times that are with thee

And progress ye shall call"

 

Paraphrased so please forgive the mistakes.

 

Not that it means much coming from me, but I do wish you great success in your Krsna conscious endeavors.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

[krsna]

Bhaktivinda Poem Sutra:

 

"Forget the past that sleeps

 

And ner' the future dream at all

 

Act in times that are with thee

 

And progress ye shall call"

 

 

Thank you Theist Prabhu for your thoughtfulness. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your kind words. AGTSP!!! Although I am not a good devotee, or even a real devotee, still I have one thing to my credit and that is love for Srila Prabhupada. He is my eternal sambandhacharya. He saved me countless times; and even though he appeared displeased with my staying with Bon Mj yet he very much appreciated what I had learned there. Especially my grasp of "Vaishnavatva"

 

One morning during SB class given by HDG in Mayapur 1973 I was sitting right next to HDG's vyasasan (as he directed me to do), then, in the middle of the lecture, with no warning, HDG turned to me and asked me (in Bengali) to list and explain the ten offenses against the Holy Name IN BENGALI to the newly initiated Indian disciples. Then HDG just sat back and let me talk and talk, especially about Hati Mata which is specially bad in relationship to Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother. There were so many "big" devotees present (such as JPS) and they remember. I made it to number nine and became so nervious speaking in front of HDG that I lost my memory. But HDG just picked up without any hitch.

 

Even after I went to Nepal and married Srila Prabhupada wrote me to, "Worship Salagram Sila nicely, husband and wife..." (ref. Vedabase). Far from angry he was so compassionate. I felt a special love from HDG (in his presence) because I had come back after 7 years in the GM and rejoined HDG.

 

But Swami Bon had mailed out a Wanted Poster all over India, and it went to the PRESIDENT and Mayors, MPs, and a whole long list of my friends and contacts in the address book I left behind at Swami Bon's ashram. I don't blame him. Even in the material world if I lose an employee I have to inform all my contacts. Swami Bon had signed for my Indian Citizenship application, that was also signed by Indian President VV Giri, Billionaire Jaya Dayal Dalmia (who built Krishna Janma Bhumi Mandira in Mathura), as well as the Chairman of the Law Commision, all signed for my citizenship... THAT IS SERIOUS STUFF!!! But when I left to return to HDG I gave up that safety and shelter in the Dham, and Srila Prabhupada new what my situation was. And it is all in the movie.

 

What I seem to recollect, after being asked by WVA to write a brief bio of Swami Bon, I also forewarded it to a very senior Iskcon leader, who in reply sent me over 100 "quotes" by Srila Prabhupada, saying his Godbrothers were, "non-devotees", "mayavadis", "living only for bread", "envious black snakes" ... I mean, over 100 quotes, all worse than the next.

 

That's when I told everyone I knew that Bon Mj was a born life-long Tridandi sannyasi who left his body in Vrindavan. He had over 5000 initiated disciples, mostly in villiages in Bengal (W & E) and these were all super good devotees, and for them Bon Mj was their life and soul. He was Guru Tattva.

 

But still my Godbrothers couldn't understand their offense. First, they are offending and then laying "blame" of HDG... "Prabhupada said..." Making Srila Prabhupada look faulty for saying such offensive jati buddhi statements, so vicious, against his Godbrothers. But in fact this is achintya...I mean Prabhupada saying seemingly offensive words against his Godbrothers. It was like the start of a new Klu Klux Klan against the GM. In fact we all know that Prabhupada said to us, "You cannot say such things - it is between brothers!" Yet still they would stick to their offensive mentality. Not careing for the feeling of other vaishnavas.

 

It is a fact that Srila Bon Mj came with KD Babaji Mj to visit Srila Prabhupada before his departure. Tamal Krishna Maharaj was there along with some Indian devotees and he told me about it and also wrote about it in one of his early books. HDG was so weak, yet when they entered HDG sat up, offered the obeisances, and begged them to please forgive any offenses he may have committed, and to tell all his Godbrothers for him. This is a deep lila, and we disciples had better take note, because this is one of Srila Prabhupada's final teaching, i.e., he respected and loved his godbrothers, and WE better beware of using Prabhupada quotes to defame any other bona fide spiritual masters.

 

That's when I thought, I have to let them see what it feels like on the "receiving end" and I mentioned things about HDG which were all true and far FAR less sever that what the devotees quote HDG as saying. At that time I asked them how do they feel hearing jati buddhi view of HDG? I said that the disciples of Bon Mj might be so insulted to hear what was being said about their Sri Gurudev, that they might go and ... I mean, can you imagine one of Prabhupada's Godbrothers telling their disciples that "Swami Mj is NOT a devotee, or A Mayavadi, or Black snake" ---it is just horrible. I never once heard a personal insult uttered against HDG by his godbrothers, including Bon Maharaj.

 

I don't want Srila Prabhupada to appear faulty. That is one reason I am trying to become world famous with my service, so it will make HDG look good. Prabhupada loved to have "famous people" as followers. That's because BIG people could make a BIG difference and make HDG look even BIGGER & BETTER. Well that is only possible in two ways, 1) a famous person becomes a disciple OR 2) a disciple becomes a famous person. So far all the global news has focused on the infamous leaders who committed crimes. But where is the Prabhupada disciple on Larry King Live! OR in the box office.

 

I just fear Iskcon affiliations because of the Klu Klux Klan mentality, and blaming everything on Srila Prabhupada, and even banning Prabhupada's godbrothers from Iskcon temples. Even his best friend Srila Narayana Maharaj, who performed samadhi of HDG, he is banned. It is unthinkable.

 

And it is so offensive that it is the single ROOT cause of all Iskcons problems, "Vaishnava-aparadha" against "Guru Tattva"

 

I for one can't present my self to the world as a Srila Prabhupada disciple until I achieve the world recognition I am gaining every day. That is because I may be blocked in my attemps by persons who could associate me with the infamy achieved by Iskcon.

 

If there was anything to associate these words with then please do. As it makes the matter clear. I have only ever defended HDG, but my Godbrothers generally make Srila Prabhupada look ashamed of the infamous status... certainly NOT something pleasing to HDG.

And certainly not the advice of a PR man like myself. There is a difference between fame & infamy, white/black.

 

So the best thing I can do to achieve my goal of making Srila Prabhupada look faultless is to achieve the same status as a globally influential person. A disciple HDG will be proud of. I believe HDG is willing this movie to happen as it will certainly gives the common man a look at HDG in action, plus a good dose of KCon, in a practical way, an interesting saga.

 

The screenplay on the movie website http://www.hrisikesh.net is nothing like the actual pre-production script. If anyone would like to read the actual script they are welcome to download the pdf.file by clicking http://www.hrisikesh.net/misunderstood.pdf Then you can see the movie in advance and know what it will be. I think you will have to agree that it is a VERY "commercial" story. And that is why it is getting made. We have been writing the screenplay since 1988.

 

Another site: http://www.themisunderstood.com where any of you hard rock lovers can download our (the Misunderstood's) London Rock classics as MP3. Serious music for 1966!!!

 

Dandavats. AGTSP!! Hare Krishna!!!

 

Om svasti astu!!!

 

Y/s,

Hrsikesananda das

 

---"The future is turning into the past constantly; there is ONLY the present!"

[stonehearted]

Theist (and others), I hope I didn't come off too heavy-handed in my recent post. I guess I just hope we can bury the past before it buries us. These are not our disputes.

 

Here's one thing I heard Srila Prabhupada say about Bon Maharaja. Someone had reported on a confrontation at a conference in Canada. In the course of the conversation, one of the devotees mentioned that Bon Maharaja had been barred from speaking (and staying?) at the New York temple. Srila Prabhupada replied, "He is Gaudiya Vaishnava; he can speak. Only if he speaks against us [meaning Srila Prabhupada], he may be challenged. Otherwise there is no harm."

 

Srila Prabhupada repeated tried to call his Godbrothers out to help him spread Krishna consciousness around the world. He said over again that there is so much room, so much scope for preaching, that they could all be busy for the rest of their lives. No one appeared to appreciate what he was doing for a long time, and some criticized him as impertinent. Brothers squabble, but there's no reason to perpetuate such bad feelings, especially when the brothers put them to rest themselves.

 

Let us not become like the Montagues and Capulets in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. Not one among them could remember why the two families were supposed to hate each other. The result was tragedy (and a great story!).

[theist]

Yes it is easy to get dragged into these things. Only a sincere taste of serving Krsna can save us. Otherwise Maya-devi will due her duty.

 

No Babhru you didn't come off too strongly. I owe Hrishikesha and apology, which I submit, as well as this whole board for letting loose with a pyschic puke in public.

 

Hrishikesa, I thought often today about what a difficult position you were in. Kind of caught between two who loved you and whom you loved, with many 'big timers'chiming in their opinions. My parents were divorce when I was five and it was hard for me, I loved them both and they were at odds with each other. Of course on their level there is no good mundane comparison but this one increased my view of the situation somewhat.

 

Being a fringey I missed a lot of this. Good thing too I could not have handled it.

 

Jaya Radhe!

 

 

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

I don't want Srila Prabhupada to appear faulty. That is one reason I am trying to become world famous with my service, so it will make HDG look good.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada doesn't need you or any one else to look good.

 

To me this is just ugly blind people trying to look in a mirror to observe their own perceived beauty.

 

Your conlusion that the best way to deal with other's offenses to vaishnavas is to make offensive statements about one's own guru so that the others will feel hurt is the sure sign of a neophyte. I know I am also a neophyte, but at least I can see that. And I know for certain Srila Prabhupada doesn't need a fallen soul like me to make him look good.

[Guest guest]

Dear devotee...you wrote:

 

"And I know for certain Srila Prabhupada doesn't need a fallen soul like me to make him look good."

 

---If you know for certain, then you can understand why your life is insignificant on a Global scale. You have low self-confidence that probably matchs your chart. Does your chart say "world famous"?

 

On the contrary I am certain that Srila Prabhupada WANTS me to become BIG TIME. It is by the will of Srila Prabhupad that I am already Globally world famous and influental as the most inovative precious jewelry designer on Earth (Bulgari won't even argue), but not yet to the level I am aiming for. When I reach that level beyond damage, then I can properly glorify HDG by becoming HDG's world famous disciple. It is his plan for me. That is my conviction and experience.

 

This is not an ego-rant, it is common sense and fact. Those who love Srila Prabhupada should also love his famous devotees. I saw how much HDG loved to have any FAMOUS disciple or even supporter. The reason is self evident: BIG PEOPLE CAN HELP HDG IN A BIG WAY BY BEING LOOKED UP TO BY THE HUMAN RACE.

 

Lord Krishna is Bhagavan, yet He took his pleasure in seeing his devotees become victorious and hugely famous, even to this day, e.g. Arjuna.

 

If Infamous disciples disgrace HDG, then the FAMOUS ones glorify HDG by their achievements, as they are disciples of ACBSP and offer all credit to Gurukripa.

 

This is common PR sense.

 

Granted, not ALL Prabhupada's disciples will become world-famous, big time people. And the most insignificant dasa or dasi is of a spiritual higher order. Yet still HDG especially wants some of his disciples to become world famous BIG TIME!!! Not many, may be only one or two. It really depends on our birthchart which can predict certain special things for a person (like myself) who has 4 exalted planets in 9th, 10th, and 11th houses. Because of this I am already the biggest jewelery designer in Asia with Royal connection to the top. My 7 year old son, Jiva, was admitted by Thailand's Royal Crown Princess to study in the Palace School (for free) along with the royal students inside the Chitrlada Palace that is surrounded by a huge mote and machine gun totting Royal Guards around the 4 sq km area of Palace grounds.

I mention this because it is vertually impossible for any Thai, however rich, to get their child into the Palace school, but my karma is such that I, in an American body, was able to get my son in the palace. This is indicated by my birth chart. As is my rise to maga fame before I'm 60 (ten years younger than when HDG came to NY). It will happen, along with the movie, by Krishna's grace and the laws of karma.

 

Now if any other Prabhupada disciple can achieve global recognition and fame within the REAL media (not tiny ITV) for any noteworthy thing then I offer them my humble obeisances, and respects, and give them my full support to reach as high as possible (to make HDG look GREAT).

 

I believe I have a special karma. And I can already see my situation and standing in world society. I have heads of state and Royalty and movie stars as my supporters, among so many thousands of others. And over 1,000 media articles ave been published (including the back cover of the Internationl Herald Tribune in 1991) plus so many TV shows. As a jewelry designer I am about to explode on the global scene.

 

---AND HDG WILL BE VERY PLEASED that is disciple has achieved great heights, because then, as chaitya guru, HDG can influence the world in a BIG WAY (like with George Harrison).

 

I encourge all Prabhupada disciples still alive, and who have VERY POWERFUL BIRTH CHARTS, to please shoot for the stars and help illuminate HDG to the normal world's population - the same population who now think Iskcon is a band of nut case gangsters and perverts. Just read Nandini's book, "Betrayal of the spirit" (By Nori Muster) who was center PR dept during the "11 Gurus" nightmare. Then you will understand what the world public (outside the tiny devotee communities) really thinks of Prabhpada's disciples

 

So far they have only seen BAD ones.

 

Ambrish Das is the closest thing to a BIG Prabhupada disciple. But he didn't earn it himself, he's not famous for what he did. So think about HOW MANY Prabhupada disciples will become WORLD FAMOUS - and thus cancel out the long-standing BAD IMAGE caused by infamous disciples.

 

Do it for Prabhupada - IF U CAN! And cheer on those who try. Don't be enviouis of the success of those few godbrothers. They are the gate keepers of Prabhupada's GOOD reputation. And are therefore good for the reputation of all devotees of ACBSP.

 

Please don't take this as arrogence, or anything other than simple common sense.

 

Hare Krishna!!

Y/s,

Hrsikeshananda das

 

[gHari]

Hrisikeshananda,

 

Okay, let's sell this thing. That's my talent.

 

Why will people want to see the movie? What will the trailer look like?

 

I understand we have some mega action-drama related to the ruby mine. Is that the attraction for Hollywood?

 

Perhaps you could let us know why they have expressed interest. Knowing that is important since it sounds like there is still some selling left to be done. I think we need to write the trailer teaser now to present to the studios, not only to close the deal but also to shape the direction of the production.

 

From what little I've read on this forum, it sounds like Romancing the Stone meets Gandhi meets Almost Famous meets Siddharta. Three of those received box office success while Siddharta will live forever as a seeker classic. There is every chance Hrisikesh will work.

 

gHari

[Guest guest]

Hrsikesananda Prabhu, I went to your website and this is what I found:

<< When I (unfortunately) returned to B.V. Swami Maharaj in Mayapura, 1973, I asked him to again give me diksa; he asked me (tumi jani na?) "Don't you already know it?" I replied, "yes Gurudev, I know it" (from Srila Vana Maharaj). Prabhupada replied, "Tik achi!" (then that is OK). And that was that.

 

 

So ACBSP never gave me Gayatri Diksha. HDG clearly said that I already knew the mantras (including the bona fide sannyasa mantra, which is different from the incorrect mantra chanted by most Iskcon sannyasis) and that I did not need to hear or be initiated in Diksha again. Prabhupada said to just continue chanting the Gayatri I received from Vana Maharaj.

 

 

Therefore Vana Maharaj never "stole" me because I belong to Krsna, not only one single manifestation of Guru tattva. It didn't matter this group or that group. I was desperate and I begged Vana Maharaj to guide my spiritual life. My Iskcon Godbrothers called me a traitor, and I was surprised at that after having sincerely practiced Krsna consciousness in Vraja Dham at the feet of ACBSP's own life-long senior Godbrother. This is material duality and nonsense! In the event I became polluted by Iskcon devotees which caused me to adopt the mundane fault-finding party-line of ISKCON; and become a prakrta-kanistha offender full of misery at having traded the sweet shelter of Srila Vana Maharaj and the feet of Lord Caitanya for life in an out-cast American personality cult>>.

<<The reason I left Vana Maharaj was because I became polluted by the mundane association of ISKCON devotees, who convinced me that Vana Maharaj (and all Gaudiya Matha devotees) were no good. It was my bad karma, but also the greatest spiritual mistake of my life leaving the sweet shelter of my Shiksa & Diksa Guru Srila Bhakti Hrdaya Vana Maharaj; and since returning to ISKCON I found everything different from the bona fide Gaudiya Math system of Srila Param-Gurudev. The whole taste is completely different.

 

 

Ever since returning to ISKCON in late 1973 I was stunned to see the ill-consciousness and bad behavior of ISKCON devotees. Going from Gaudiya Math to ISKCON was worse than "falling down." Like going from heaven to hell. The devotees were NOT trained in Gaudiya thinking, Vaisnavata (etiquette), puja, nor achar. They even sang the Maha-mantra wrong and made many mistakes such as bowing during the prema-dhavani prayers. The only goal was $$$. Even though ACBSP knew that I was a fugitive with no passport, still he wanted me to go and collect money in Amritsar. That (laxmi-points) was the be all and end all of Iskcon life. It was such a shock. It went against everything I had learned for six years from Caitanya-caritamrita, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, etc., in the association of REAL devotees.

 

 

I watched in horror as an ISKCON sannyasi used his feet to kick other devotees during kirtana in front of the Deities (to make them dance); to see the puja standard performed incorrectly; to see men and women living in Ashram life together like cats and dogs; to witness the complete lack of knowledge and Vaisnavata; and to see the mundane attitude of all these total kanistha beginners who were more like fanatic Jesus-freaks than a group of humble devotees. It was such BAD association. Everyone was running in circles like headless-chickens chasing after material goals in the worst way. It was personality-cult communism with ACBSP (in his 'old man' vapu) as the center, not Krsna.

 

 

Since then I lost respect for Iskcon people; it was obvious that they didn't understand Gaudiya-dharma prayojan, and they were dead-set against taking any help from or showing respect to Gaudiya Math devotees nor Prabhupada's still living great Godbrothers. They were so sure that they were already liberated and all-perfect. But I knew, clearly, that just the opposite was the truth. A perfect example is the zonal acarya guru worship I had to endure in L.A. before the "something-pad" fell down completely, leaving hundreds or even thousands of individual jivatma's with their faith completely shattered and their lives up-side-down. It was and still is disgusting to me. I take "svarupa-siddhi" to mean self-realization. These untrained fools were bad-mouthing all of Prabhupada's great Godbrothers and Sri Gaudiya Math, while kissing the ass of rich karmis just to get those all-important "laxmi points.">>

The truth is that Srila Vana Maharaj MADE THE ATTEMPT to fulfill the order of Sri Param-Gurudeva. Exactly at the time that Srila Vana Maharaj was in England in the early 30's it was during the British Raj and the Great Depression, and getting donations from UK was impossible. And there was no counter-culture mood like in the mid-60's.>>

<<REPLY: This is absolutely NOT true! This is an unfair attempt to re-write history. When I arrived in Vraja to live with Vana Maharaj in Jan. 1968 his great translation of BRS was already published, years before Srila Swami Maharaj's was published. In my personal opinion Srila Vana Maharaj's translation is much more clear than Srila Swami Maharaj's summary study. Also, Vana Maharaj had such a bad experience of mlettchas when he was in the UK during the 1930's that he refused to translate the remainder of the book into English. He said the mlettchas were so polluted from birth and up-bringing that it would be a sin to reveal the higher portions to them in English.>>

 

<<NOTE: Iskcon devotees try to re-write history to show that only ACBSP was a GOOD devotee of Prabhupada, and that he is the 2nd coming of Christ. The TRUTH is that ACBSP was of little consequence during the time of Prabhupada. He lived outside the Gaudiya Mission and was never strictly trained in Gaudiya Math ashram life nor activities. That is the reason why there are so many discrepencies in Iskcon. Srila Swami Maharaj always said that he "would NEVER change anything of his Gurudev" (Prabhupada), but in fact many things got changed.

 

 

Here are just a few examples:

 

 

---There was never any Narasimha puja in any Gaudiya Math. And if there was to be, then the mantra used is from SB (Om namo bhagavate Narasimhaya......Om kshrom!) That is the bona fide Narasimha Mantra for all disciples of Prabhupada. So this separate Narasimha puja is a concoction.>>

---In Gaudiya Math the Panca-tattva and Maha-mantras are almost always sung in half stanzas followed by refrain. The complete mantras are almost NEVER sung together like always done in Iskcon.

 

 

---There is NO separate Guru-puja in any Gaudiya Matha, except on Vyasa puja day.

 

 

---There is never any one bowing down during Prema Dhavani prayers like the impractical Iskcon concoction.

 

 

---There are NEVER women>>

 

NOTE: Iskcon devotees try to re-write history to show that only ACBSP was a GOOD devotee of Prabhupada, and that he is the 2nd coming of Christ. The TRUTH is that ACBSP was of little consequence during the time of Prabhupada. He lived outside the Gaudiya Mission and was never strictly trained in Gaudiya Math ashram life nor activities. That is the reason why there are so many discrepencies in Iskcon. Srila Swami Maharaj always said that he "would NEVER change anything of his Gurudev" (Prabhupada), but in fact many things got changed.

 

 

Here are just a few examples:

 

 

---There was never any Narasimha puja in any Gaudiya Math. And if there was to be, then the mantra used is from SB (Om namo bhagavate Narasimhaya......Om kshrom!) That is the bona fide Narasimha Mantra for all disciples of Prabhupada. So this separate Narasimha puja is a concoction.

 

 

---In Gaudiya Math the Panca-tattva and Maha-mantras are almost always sung in half stanzas followed by refrain. The complete mantras are almost NEVER sung together like always done in Iskcon.

 

 

---There is NO separate Guru-puja in any Gaudiya Matha, except on Vyasa puja day.

 

 

---There is never any one bowing down during Prema Dhavani prayers like the impractical Iskcon concoction.

 

 

---There are NEVER women

 

I would like to ask you the following questions without any desire to be disrespectful or offensive:

1 How do you glorify somme one you insult on your website 24 hours a day accusing him of creating a personality cult around his old vapu body?

2 How is it that a sannyasi like your good self who had the best of association, got dragged down by ignorant badly behaved ISKCON devotees?

3 HDG treated you rather well as far as your own account goes. How then did you become inimical to him?

4 You came to Krishna consciousness as a result of the preaching of HDG and his disciples. How does it augur well for your spiritual life if you insult them?

5 You say famous disciples are important but you minimise Ambarish Prabhu because he is not "self made". But his birth as a Ford is due to his Karma. If this is true, is he not a self made man?

6 I see that you abbreviate now naturally. Have you come to terms with the use of abbreviations in vaishnavism?

7 Vana Maharaja said everything is done in ISKCON wrongly and that is why he censured your mails from HDG. That is obviously a severe condemnation of Srila Prabhupada. Why do you condemn why side only?

8 Srila Prabhupada apologised to Vana Maharaja. Don't you think an apology was also needed from the other side for the same reason?

9 Iskcon devotees who insult Vana Maharaja never associated with him but you came to KC by the grace of Srila Prabhupada. How can ISKCON devotee disrespect(albeit wrong) to Vana Maharaja be compared to your own towards your own guru Srila Prabhupada? Even if you rejected him, still he brought you to KC. Are you not eternally indebted to him for that?

10 You claim Vana Maharaja did not benefit from the counterculture which HDG benefited from. Iskcon spread KC all over the world where different conditions were prevalent. Also many mayavadas also set up missionns in the west. Is it proper to minimise HDG achievement?

11 Do you not think that you should first of all clear your offenses to HDG( three weeks on the ganga on a raft like Vana Mj did) before you make a film glorifying him?

12 Do you not think you should start to glorify HDG by first removing offending posts against him on your website? You seem to be dodging from this question over and over again on this thread.

13 Are you prepared to offer apologies to ISKCON devotees and ask for their blessing on this film?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I would like to ask you the following questions without any desire to be disrespectful or offensive:

---All right! I will answer then in the same way...

 

1 How do you glorify somme one you insult on your website 24 hours a day accusing him of creating a personality cult around his old vapu body?

---Prabhupada didn't create a personality cult, WE did. The things you have mentioned are not insults. they are facts!!!

 

2 How is it that a sannyasi like your good self who had the best of association, got dragged down by ignorant badly behaved ISKCON devotees?

---Bad luck by worst of association

 

3 HDG treated you rather well as far as your own account goes. How then did you become inimical to him?

---I'm not inimical. I worship Srila Prabhupada daily since 1973. But I am certain that HDG is NOT pleased with Iskcon's 11 + absolute gurus, etc., etc. etc. and the mistreatment of Srila Prabhupada's friends and godbrothers, such as Srila Narayana Mj being banned. If I told Srila Prabhupada he would be very disturbed. I know for sure because I discussed things with Srila Prabhupada. All those things should be corrected to please Prabhupada. HDG never wanted anything changed from the system of his Gurudev. These things are just mistakes. And if mistakes don't get fixed then a seperate thing develops based on mistakes for which HDG might be criticized. HDG fixed the Sannyas mantra in a split second! I was there.

 

4 You came to Krishna consciousness as a result of the preaching of HDG and his disciples. How does it augur well for your spiritual life if you insult them?

---I have not insulted them. Everything you have quoted is true. But Niti shastra says any words that cause unhappiness to others are untrue. So your unhappiness makes true things become untrue.

 

5 You say famous disciples are important but you minimise Ambarish Prabhu because he is not "self made". But his birth as a Ford is due to his Karma. If this is true, is he not a self made man?

---I don't mean to minimise anyone, not even an "anu", sorry! I was putting him UP, as an example. But there IS a gulf of difference between a self-made man and his son, depending on what the son makes of himself. Ambrish, becoming a devotee, he has topped his father.

 

6 I see that you abbreviate now naturally. Have you come to terms with the use of abbreviations in vaishnavism?

---I've come to terms with it in Iskcon. It's an Iskcon "thing" The Sikhs have their odd things too.

 

7 Vana Maharaja said everything is done in ISKCON wrongly and that is why he censured your mails from HDG. That is obviously a severe condemnation of Srila Prabhupada. Why do you condemn why side only?

---If you read the pre-production script at:

http://www.themisunderstood.com/misunderstood.pdf

then you will know everything about the plot, including Srila Bon Mj the guilty loser and Srila Prabhupada the merciful winner.

 

8 Srila Prabhupada apologised to Vana Maharaja. Don't you think an apology was also needed from the other side for the same reason?

---That is between Srila Prabhupada and his brothers. How can I understand them!?? All I know is Srila Prabhupada said WE cannot say such things against any devotees, what to speak of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers. So banning them is beyond belief.

 

9 Iskcon devotees who insult Vana Maharaja never associated with him but you came to KC by the grace of Srila Prabhupada. How can ISKCON devotee disrespect(albeit wrong) to Vana Maharaja be compared to your own towards your own guru Srila Prabhupada? Even if you rejected him, still he brought you to KC. Are you not eternally indebted to him for that?

---I never rejected Srila Prabhupada. He is always my Gurudev. I never wrote anything I wouldn't discuss with Srila Prabhupada personally. And have done so as well.

 

10 You claim Vana Maharaja did not benefit from the counterculture which HDG benefited from. Iskcon spread KC all over the world where different conditions were prevalent. Also many mayavadas also set up missionns in the west. Is it proper to minimise HDG achievement?

---No. And is it proper to minimise Srila Bon Mj's achievement under different circumstances? How would YOU like if you heard that one of Prabhupada's Godbrother disciples were going around saying of our Srila Prabhupada, "He is not a devotee!He's a mayavadia black gorillia" --- would you tolerate that!!??? Well that's what Iskcon people think and say about others.

 

11 Do you not think that you should first of all clear your offenses to HDG( three weeks on the ganga on a raft like Vana Mj did) before you make a film glorifying him?

---It is for Srila Prabhuppada to decide if I have offended him, not you or any others. If you feel offened that is your personal hang up. Don't blame me for YOUR hangups. I mean, I don't have a clue who you are...

 

12 Do you not think you should start to glorify HDG by first removing offending posts against him on your website? You seem to be dodging from this question over and over again on this thread.

---No. Everything I said is true. And although you may be offened, Still Srila Prabhupada is not. Anyone wishing to read more of my writing please visit :

http://www.richardshawbrown.com/mysticarticles/index.html

 

13 Are you prepared to offer apologies to ISKCON devotees and ask for their blessing on this film?

---I have nothing to apologise to any followers of Srila Prabhupada. They owe Prabhupada's godbrothers and all other Gaudiya Vaishnavas a million apologies. I stand by everything I have written as facts!!! With no offense to Srila Prabhupada. If you feel otherwise that's your personal problem. "Only the mighty have enemies! Who will kick a dead dog!?" Blessing we will always accept.

 

NOTE: It was an interesting exercise to inform the devotees of one of the projects I have been involved in since 1988 when a book was written. Since then a screenplay has been gradually developed. Only last year it was completed and passed by Pacific Film Works (Fox). Currently the script is being broken down into line-production. If you download the pre-pro-script from the link above, then you will see that the Srila Prabhupada is the winner.

 

A production script breaks down all he scenes into costs which enables the movie to be budgeted and produced. It is also not certain how much of the script will be cut, both before and after shooting. We have not confirmed the director yet either as we are negotiating with several including Stone and Rafelson. I will fight to save the spiritual theme that runs through out the story, starting with rebirth FX scenes. But this is a commercial venture, and the best way to reach "critical mass" is to keep saying "Yes Sir!!!" I know, I landed a major record deal in London when I was 19 years old---in a super band.

 

I feel enough has been said on this thread. I have only ever visited this site since last week when it was discovered in a search. It is a very nice site. But I don't have any plans to come back. So no need to fire any more bullets. Be content with yourselves, and don't try to judge Prabhupada's feelings for others. What if the things I wrote were dictated by Srila Prabhupada!? Then would you accept them? I think not. Because there is a tendency within Iskcon to think that Srila Prabhupada was right even when he was wrong. The sannyas mantra given in 1973 was wrong, and when we brought it to Srila Prabhupada, he ordered Sat Svarupa to CORRECT it and inform the others. Far from being angry with me Srila Prabhupada was pleased and relieved that something wrong was corrected. This is history.

 

It will be very interesting to have a Prabhupada disciple story on the silver screen; and if any other devotees have a very interesting life, worthy of an interesting screenplay, then by all means, knock yourselves out.

 

Koti dandavats to all devotees everywhere and apologies if any offense was felt on any account. Just remember, if you suffer, it is your OWN fault! Don't blame me!

 

If you think I'm a puffed up guy, well it takes one to know one!

 

Hare Krishna!!!

 

Hrsikesananda das

 

"Fie on him who is known through his father! Great is he who is known through his son!!"---Niti Shastri

 

[Guest guest]

Good questions get answered. Please read the movie synopsis at: http://www.themisunderstood.com/Synopsis.htm

OR

http://www.hrisikesh.net/Synopsis.htm

And listen to the Misunderstood music from 1966

 

For pre-shoot teaser see:

http://www.themisunderstood.com

OR

http://www.hrisikesh.net

 

y/s,

Hrsi

[gHari]

<center><img src=http://canoeparts.ca/KINGDOM/Hrisikesh.jpg></center>

 

[theist]

Sometimes my mind will tune in to devotees exchanging hurtful statements to each other. Usually I am in the mix but sometimes I try to relish the poison from a little distance.

 

But the reality is their is no safe place when aparadha is flying back and forth.

 

Will Krishna be merciful to me and free me from this abominable taste for negativity and gossip before I leave this body? I really don't wish to die like this again.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

HD: Jaya Gurudev, I’m so thankful to see you.

 

ACBSP: But I am always, with you, is it not!?

 

HD: (bowing down): Namo om vishnu . krishna presthaya bhutale srimate bhakti-siddhanta Sarasvati iti namine... Namaste Saraswati deve Gauravani pracharine nirveshesha sunyavadi paschatya desha tarine

 

ACBSP: Hare Krishna! Tumi baalo achin?

 

HD: Imi tekachi, Gurudev (pause)

 

ACBSP: Yes, something is on your mind?

 

HD: Well, I'm troubled by a few things, some mistakes...

 

ACBSP: Yes, for example?

 

HD: Gurudev, when I first came back you changed the Sannyas Mantra cause Satsvarupa gave me the wrong one, remember?

 

ACBSP: Yes. So what is wrong?

 

HD: Well, Gurudev, one thing is the prema dhavani; everyone bows down, and I'm left standing there. In every Math I have ever been they always stood and beat mridangas during Jaya; but here, they all bow down. So I feel awkward; I don't want to bow down cause I know it's wrong; but I don’t want to do opposite of my god brothers.

 

ACBSP: So it should be changed.

 

HD: Yes, Gurudev! Back to normal... Otherwise we can't mix properly with the Gaudiya Math

 

ACBSP: So call my secretary, I will tell, it is simple matter

 

HD: Ah, whose your secretary now Gurudev?

 

ACBSP: Who is my secretary?

 

HD: Yes, Gurudev, who should I call?

 

ACBSP (laughing): Tamal Krishna Maharaj, of course.

 

HD: Right! (Pause) But he's with you Gurudev, I can't reach him?

 

ACBSP: What, you cannot reach? How can you reach me?

 

HD: Well, I never prayed to Tamal Krishna Maharaj before

 

ACBSP: You can pray; to any vaishnava! But there is no need.

 

HD: No need for what, Gurudev?

 

ACBSP: No need for Tamal Krishna, he is my servant HERE

 

HD: That's what I thought, who will listen to Tamal Krishna Maharaj? I mean if he's there, with you? Anyway, lots of devotees are so envious of Maharaj that they even say he poisoned you!

 

ACBSP: (Belly laugh) But you, you know the truth? What do you think?

 

HD: About Maharaj? He was your strongest protector! I remember he loved you so much, I remember Gurudev! Right to the end.

 

ACBSP: Yes, and now he is here, he came in an instant; he did not suffer like me!

 

HD: It must be your mercy, Gurudev, on Maharaj

 

ACBSP: In my life he sacrificed, everything, to protect me, to serve me, to help me. So I have brought him back with out pain

 

HD: (speechless)...

 

ACBSP: But the matter of Vaishnavatva, the bowing when giving Jaya. It started as mistake. So clumsy. In those early days, after arati, when I was giving Jaya, they did not know what to do, and by devotion they would immediately bow, all of them. It just started... But it is not the tradition. No!

 

HD: I told my god brothers so many times, but they have to hear it from you, Gurudev, otherwise they can't mix with the Gaudiya devotees, cause during Prema dhavani all the Gaudiya devotees will remain standing to give jaya, but all my godbrothers will bow down, BEFORE pranams, and it will look opposite... I think it should be corrected, among other things, just like you corrected the sannyas mantra in Mayapur... Otherwise we will all make you look wrong, by bowing during jaya, because it's the opposite. Just like you said, it’s not the tradition… In fact, in drives a wedge between Iskcon and all other Gaudiya Maths. And there are other mistakes. It is embarrassing to me… what should be done, Gurudev?

 

ACBSP: So, we shall fix, as I said please call my secretary... I will dictate

 

HD: You mean Tamal Krishna Maharaj?

 

ACBSP:(Laughing) Maharaj is here with me, as you say, who will hear him?

 

HD: So who’s your secretary, Gurudev? Who should you tell?

 

ACBSP: (Smiling and folding his hands) Bhakti Vedanta Narayana Maharaj...

 

HD: Narayana Maharaj from Mathura?

 

ACBSP: Yes. He is my very dear friend, and HE is my secretary there.

 

HD: I thought so Gurudev, he even wrote the samadhi mantra on your vapu.

 

ACBSP: When I took sannyas, Narayana Maharaj was there, he also takes care of me, he is very respectful, very expert devotee. I asked him to look after you. He can tell them (my disciples) not to bow down during giving jaya. He knows everything. In ashram life he has more experience than me...

 

HD: He was a Sannyasi before you, isn’t it, Gurudev?

 

ACBSP: Yes, he is whole life devotee. He started early; perhaps he is the most expert preacher among shishas of Keshava Maharaj. You know Keshava Maharaj is my Sannyasi Guru and Narayana Maharaj has been my great friend, like a dear son.

 

HD: Yes Gurudev, I remember when I first saw him prostrate before the Deities at Keshavji he seemed so humble, so divine. And I saw he was respectful to all your godbrothers… He was very close to Bon Maharaj too. I saw many times.

 

ACBSP: Yes, he is my real successor; and I have told the leaders to take guidance, any guidance from Maharaj. But they have rejected my order!

 

HD: Well, he seems to be following in your footsteps, Gurudev. He's old now, but he's working, traveling so hard. He never stops, just like you, Gurudev!

 

ACBSP: Of course, I am teaching through him, we are doing together. The process of Krishna Consciousness reaches to the mind, manasa, manasa-seva. This must be achieved.

 

HD: That's what I thought. Like we discussed during Upadesamrita. But he's taken Krishna Consciousness so high, that some of your disciples are against him.

 

ACBSP: YES! Maharaj is right: Krishna consciousness is “SO HIGH!” But always someone will be against. So many were against me, but I am preaching...by example... Narayana Maharaj will surely meet resistance, but this is the challenge for acharyas. We must carry on in spite of resistance. You know Haridas Thakura was whipped in so many market places, the Muslims, they punished! So much resistance. But he carried on his Krishna Consciousness, it did not matter.

 

HD: Gurudev, I don't have to tell you, you must know, but Iskcon generally make such distinction that they say Narayana Maharaj is stealing your men! They act like he’s a thief!

 

ACBSP: My men? Who is stealing?

 

HD: That's what they say about Narayana Maharaj.

 

ACBSP: This is nonsense; we are Krishna's men.

 

HD: Gurudev, you're chaitya-guru, in their hearts, why can't you tell them?

 

ACBSP: Always I am telling, but who is hearing? I engaged them in ugra-karma because they were so restless, but now they no longer listen; they listen to what ever their mind dictates. I know they pass resolution, this is guru, this is not. But I was not passed as guru by any resolution. Guru is svayam-prakash; what is resolution!??

 

HD: And they even banned him from your temples!?

 

ACBSP: (Silent, brooding) Such rascaldom! Maharaj is serving me, even up to my samadhi, but they have become so rude, how can they ban my very dear friend? How can any devotee be denied?

 

HD: I don't know, Gurudev! I can’t stand it. If Maharaj isn’t welcome then I’m not going either.

 

ACBSP: Anyway, Maharaj will teach the matter of prema-dhavani, the correct way, and many will listen, so he can tell them.

 

HD: I'm pretty sure they already do it correctly with Maharaj. But how many?

 

ACBSP: Out of millions, one will listen. But I think many are listening to Narayana Maharaj!? Otherwise, without real sat-sanga, how will they ever realize my teachings?

 

HD: Gurudev, I think many people have taken shelter of Maharaj already, he really works hard… he must be inspired by you, Gurudev.

 

ACBSP: So he has become spiritual master! What is the wonder?

 

HD: Yes, Gurudev, more and more. He's just like you. It's like he picked up from when you left. But he was so humble he didn't even stake any leadership on Iskcon. Even he was the obvious choice for your successor. Without Maharaj my god brothers didn’t even know how to perform your samadhi. Me neither! I don’t know how. But by your arrangement he came and was your samadhi-pujari. Maharaj was there for you, always.

 

ACBSP: You all saw, Maharaj wrote mantra on my vapu, in my samadhi. So that is law, In India that is tradition, who writes samadhi mantra, he is successor.

 

HD: Well that's not the way Iskcon sees it. They hate him. They treat him like an enemy. (Pause) But Maharaj would never tolerate even one speck of criticism against you, Gurudev.

 

ACBSP: Not everyone, Hrisikesh! Many are progressing, just see Jadurani, and now so many. He is my great well-wisher, and certainly the most qualified, in every detail, in every respect.

 

HD: So what should I do, Gurudev! If I tell them about the mistakes they get angry and say I'm offending you. But if I bow down during Jaya I feel I'm doing wrong, and If I remain standing then I'm an outcaste.

 

ACBSP: Hrisikesh, I don't want you to get mixed up in this mess. You cannot help. Only Maharaj can teach them. You have you own mission. You must become big designer, as I have inspired you…

 

HD: You mean don't associate with Iskcon?

 

ACBSP: You are my disciple, not Iskcon's disciple. Iskcon is simply a slogan. They say it is my body only for money. Some of you have misbehaved so much that many people now look down; the general public. This is not good development. But such thing happened after disappearance of my Guru Maharaj… it was a disgrace! You have heard details from Bon Maharaj?

 

HD: Well, Swami Bon told me it was so violent and disgusting, they even smashed each other with bricks. He was horrified by the madness and left for Varanasi. I heard he voted for Tirtha Maharaj as successor.

 

ACBSP: Yes, there was a vote. It went to Tirtha Maharaj because he was already managing everything… he was like general manager of my Guru Maharaj.

 

HD: Swami Bon sure does respect him. And I met him twice, once in Bagh Bazaar and another time in Mayapur … I went with Swami Bon a few times to meet his Godbrothers, I mean your Godbrothers, in Bengal.

 

ACBSP: And how did you like it, in Gaudiya Matha?

 

HD: The thing that I liked was how Bon Maharaja’s disciples mixed with the other disciples of your Godbrothers. It was like a big family. No one compared Gurus. There was mutual respect… I really miss that non-sectarian friendliness. I have never seen it outside of Gaudiya Matha?

 

ACBSP: I know what you are thinking…

 

HD: (pause) What’s that, Gurudev?

 

ACBSP: You regret that I chose you to show what is jati-buddhi. No one may commit Vaishnava-aparadha – in my name. What ever I have said is between brothers, my Godbrothers. You make take it as lila, but I have given clear order that my disciples cannot say such things… There must always be respect. Otherwise you will all be ruined. By Vaishnava aparadha there cannot be happiness.

 

HD: But Gurudev, they do. That make horrible statements against your Godbrothers, like they were enemies, and they quote you, like, “well that’s what Prabhupada said!” (pause) And I am sorry that you chose me. It just as I feared. Instead of them thinking, “Ug, Now I know what devotees of other Gurus feel when they are spoken of in an insulting manner”, in stead they continue hating and they just add me to their hate list.

 

ACBSP: Huummmm!

 

HD: I even heard a young kanistha Australian Brahmacari, and he said the Gaudiya Matha were envious black snakes! I protested, but then he insisted he was only quoting you. He was blaming you, Gurudev! And because you wanted them to have a taste of Guru aparadha, now they have misunderstood; instead of respecting your Godbrothers, they just curse me too.

 

ACBSP: This matter they have misunderstood. My godbrothers, all devotees, especially Krishna devotees MUST be offered full respects. There must be no I and Mine, we must go back to Godhead, and by Vaishnava aparadha we become blocked up.

 

HD: Well, since your disappearance it didn’t take long for Iskcon to go weird.

 

ACBSP: What is weird, Hrisikesh?

 

HD: I mean about over-looking Narayana Maharaj and then choosing your 11 managers and promoting them to your position, as acharyas. They were all neophytes then, and most have fallen, like me, but I didn’t take anyone down with me. And all the crimes that were committed without your knowledge. It has caused irreparable damage since your disappearance. I mean to your good name. I feel ashamed to be associated, Gurudev, it is too bad. Even the Indian Ambassador rejected me because I was associated with Iskcon. He had such a bad opinion, in spite of all your books.

 

ACBSP: Yes, because they are doing all foolishness. And using my name as license. To commit offense. Therefore it has come to this (mess). Even Mukunda has done his best to protect. Still so many have gotten lost. What can I do? I tried my best... I gave everyone the chance! Even I was criticized. But I gave everyone the chance. And no one will be a loser… even a little Krishna Consciousness, it is so powerful.

 

HD: Gurudev, one of my main problems about Iskcon devotees is that if I allow them into my life they simply spoil my activities, usually just out of envy. They are a headache. Their warped idea that everything belongs to Krishna only means, “Give ME everything you have.” Or they just take it!

 

ACBSP: Envy! Yes, this is the thing. There must be no envy, no matsarjya. So you simply avoid envious people, then you can fulfill your destiny.

 

HD: What should I do to please you, Gurudev? I mean, now?

 

ACBSP: You fulfill your destiny. You work toward success. If you gain position please use that to serve Krishna... That will make me happy. I think you already know it.

 

HD: Tikachi, Gurudev! Aapnee klantoe achen? Aapnar jit taa hobee?

 

ACBSP: No, no! I am always in your heart. I am not going. You just remember, and do your best to succeed. Krishna also pushed Arjun, “You fight, you become BIG success!” Even Arjun was asking to become beggar. But Krishna ordered, “you fight, you will win, and the world will remember us”. Tumi bujee?

 

HD: Aamee bujeen! Thank you, Gurudev. I will meet you again, in the same way.

 

ACBSP: Hare Krishna!!!

 

HD: Jaya Srila Prabhupada!!!

 

 

 

[theist]

Is this from the movie?