Can I be a siksa Guru?

[Govindaram]

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

If I say to somebody hey chant you raskal!, and he does am I a siksa GURU, or just spreading KC, using the word GURU seems a bit much, or maybe not, what say devotees?

[Guest guest]

Forget this word guru and this whole line of thought. People are suffering and you know the path to the cure. You telling them is your service to Krsna,guru and them. And afterall why else do we even exist.

[stonehearted]

When you teach others faithfully about Krishna consciousness, you are acting as a guru. But our guest is right: forget titles and other such nosense. This "who's a guru?" business is a distraction from our real business. Guru means disciple. One who is properly connected with a vital guru, and who has life himself or herself, will naturally spread Lord Chaitanya's teachings. It's an undeniable fact that the Lord wants us all to do so (yare dekha, tare kaha 'krishna'-upadesha).

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

siksa diksa vartma-pradarsaka-guru whatever: forget the titles. Preach but practice what you preach. Our most important business is to chant.

[stonehearted]

Well said. Thank you.

[anadi]

Srila Jiva Gosvami examines guru tattva in Bhakti Sandarbha.

He says that there are two kinds of guru

<font color="blue"> SarAga </font color> – with material attachments – their influence is not enduring

<font color="blue">NirAga </font color> – without material attachments .

 

He than says that there are three types of guru

1.Sravana guru , who gives instructions on

- bhaktas

- bhakti

- bhagavat –tattva

2. zikSa guru is one that out of many competent Sravana gurus

gives instructions on bhajana which is specifically suitable to the bhava of his disciple

 

atha Sravana guru bhajana Sikza guroh

prayakam ekatvam iti tathaivAha

 

from Bhakti Sandarbha. Ann.206 which says that

the Sravana and bhajana Sikza guru are usually the same.

 

3. DikSa guru (mantra guru) is one who

- gives a mantra for worshiping according the rules of the scriptures

- should posses all symptoms of a mahat puruSa sad guru

- has direct experience and realization of bhagavan

- is well conversant in the conclusions of the Sastra

- is expert in expounding the conclusions of the acaryas

 

There is only one dikSa guru.

Normally the dikSa guru is also the bhajana Sikza guru. If not, one should accept a sad Sikza guru.

 

If guru

- has become inimical to vaiSnavas, Sastra, bhakti

- has become engrossed in sense enjoyment

- is lacking discrimination on what is duty and not

- is foolish

- is not following Suddha (pure) bhakti

should be given up.

One should take dikSa again from vaiSnava sad guru.

 

A Sikza guru is a NirAga type of guru.

A guru who is

- parama bhagavata bhakta (topmost devotee)

- adept in relishing bhakti rasa

- evoking spiritual emotions in others

- capable of extracting the essence of any thing (saragrAhi)

is known as nirAga vakta.

 

Maybe one should not forget this word.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Everyone is on the same page concerning Srila Prabhupadas positioin as a bonafide spiritual master. He is Acarya, meaning his example is his teaching. His teachings are that we remember our constitutional position as servant of the servant of the Gopis, who are the confidential servants of Krsna is the Madurya rasa.

 

Srila Prabhupada is guru, but not as something he strives for. He is servant, in fact, his own words, self-depreciating, prove his position. "Im not perfect, I am an old man. But what I give, as I have received from my Guru Maharaja, is perfect, and this is my perfection." Srila Prabhupada is first and foremost, servant.

 

The criteria for guru is that one perfectly serves. In such perfect service, never does he think that he is now master, and no longer a servant.

 

So, the big blunder is that some think of themselves as guru, something that Srila Prabhupada never did. He accepted guru puja, he accepted disciples, he acted as siksa guru for the whole world, for generations to come. All these activities were performed as humble devotional service, all these things were done as disciple, never forgetting for a moment that Srila Bhaktisaiddhanta Saraswati is his lifeline.

 

One is a siksa guru if he goes to a temple once, and tells folks that the food was good and the association was enlivening. Srila Prabhupada called such a sunday feast guest as a preacher in the first class status. But once the idea hits that "I am a guru", the message is changed, the potency and empowerment gone.

 

We preach as servants and disciples, the sampradaya is called a disciplic succession. Other schools have ascended masters, but this is nowhere to be found in the Vaisnava community. Even saktivesa avatars like Lord Jesus and Haridas, and full incarnations, like Sri Chaitanya, carry this servitude as the highest thing, and ideas of mastery are rejected as infringement on the position of their object of devotion.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Govindaram]

 

A thousand thxs for this post, I can actaully feel myself trying to be a Guru, and I was discusted with myself, I do not know yet, what it is to preach, (maybe I'm being a little too truthful), anyway, as Babhru Das Prabhuji says..

 

Yours in service.

[Guest guest]

Don't feel alone. Most everyone who is not guru in fact is suffering from the I want to be guru syndrome. We all want to be appreciated and praised for what we think we know.

 

Preaching can be a loaded word. I usually get a mental picture of somebody on a streetcorner standing on a soapbox or in a church behind a pulpit proclaim eternal truths to the masses.

 

But if we think about it as just trying to help another soul remember the self and God and keep it simple Krsna will be able to use us in some small way.

[Govindaram]

 

I asked a devotee about this he said like we should be as post men delivering letters, we do it nicly in a bona-fide way, we don't deviate 'as it is', I thought this was nice.

[anadi]

"One is a siksa guru if he goes to a temple once, and tells folks that the food was good and the association was enlivening."

 

False. According Srila Jiva Gosvami

zikSa guru is one that out of many competent Sravana gurus

gives <font color="blue"> instructions on bhajana </font color> which is specifically<font color="red"> suitable to the bhava of his disciple. </font color>

It is true that usually the Sravana and zikSa guru are the same (nowadays is not the case anymore), but this doesn't mean that Sravana and zikSa functions of the guru are one and the same.

[Guest guest]

 

...I can actaully feel myself trying to be a Guru,...

 

 

 

I think this is very helpful on the path.

[Dervish]

Can I be a siksa Guru?

 

I want to be a siksa guru, too! How much does it cost?

 

/sarcasm

 

I've spoken to some members of a very large group of Hare Krishnas, and I have heard some young people say on more than one occasion, "I want to be a guru when I grow up". One needs to find a pure mahabhagavat Vaishnav, surrender to them, and dedicate your spiritual life to their service, and these thoughts of wanting to be a guru of some kind should go away with this sincere dedication to seva. In the process you will be serving Hari Guru Vaishnava, and along the way you will be an inspiration to all you come into contact with. But if you have any motivation whatsoever for pratishta, this can spell trouble.

[Govindaram]

 

'I am just repeating what I have learnt from by Guru Maharaja'.

--

 

From this you can see we should merly think of ourselves as intruments in Guru & Gaurangas service, like parrots, just present the philosophy in a 'as it is' bona-fide way, simply. Like guestji before said leave the rest to KRSNA.

 

Mmmmm I wonder how we can get to this stage of humbleness.

 

Dervish Prabhu:

'sincere dedication to seva'

[anadi]

To be a parot, or a postman is very good.

Only that the history shows us that some are big pretenders.

They read a part of the letter, and pretended they understood

the whole message.

Our anarhtas over run us.

They even say we are the parots, and exept parots there is nothing else.

They don't know about the power of the transcendental sound, utterd only by the transcendental carrier, sat VaiSNava guru.

 

gurpadasrayas tasmat krsna diksadi siksanam

 

In bhakti RasAmRta Sindhu Srila Rupa Gosvami defining the angas of bhakti,

starts with Sri guru padaSraya, which means that first one should go to guru and take shelter of His lotus feet. What is the meaning of that?

Jiva Gosvami says:

 

yo mantra sa guruh sAkSat yo guru sa harih svayam

gurur yasya bhavet tuStas tasya tuSto harih svayam

 

By the process of initiation (dikSa), the mantras (the transcendental sounds) given are the Self of the guru.

What is the meaning? yo mantra sa guruh sAkSat, means that the transcendental mood of the guru is given through the mantra (the transcendental sound).

yo guru sa harih svayam and the guru is directly the Supreme Lord Hari. How?

 

Srila KRSNa dasa Kaviraja Gosvami says

 

guru KRSNa rupa hana Sastrera pramane

guru rupe KRSNa kRpa karena bhakta gane

 

guru (the one that gives initiation - dikSa) is directly the outward form of KRSNa's form (KRSNa rupa) and

and guru is the form that KRSNa's mercy (KRSNa kRpa) takes for the bhakta.

 

And further Srila KRSNa dasa Kaviraja Gosvami says

 

SikzA guruke ta' jani KRSNera svarupa

 

Sikza guru is the internal form of KRSNa (KRSNera svarupa)

And as there is no difference between KRSNa rupa and KRSNa svarupa,

in the same way one should not see any difference beween dikSa and Sikza guru.

[Guest guest]

"Sikza guru is the internal form of KRSNa (KRSNera svarupa)

And as there is no difference between KRSNa rupa and KRSNa svarupa,

in the same way one should not see any difference beween dikSa and Sikza guru."

 

 

Radha and Krsna are one, yet simultaneously different. He is responsible for establishing the principles of religion, while She handles the emotional side. Of course, this is an over-simplification, but although we may not be qualified enough to be actually called "guru", we can still support and encourage each others' devotional service. You know, "keep the faith" as we used to say.

 

Siksa is generally more personal than diksa, like a close friend who knows our lives intimately, although a certain respect must also remain present as it should in every devotee relationship. All offenses are termed aparadha of one kind or another because they separate us from Radharani in the devotional sense. Since Radhika is the very source and controller of devotional service, it should be obvious to us all how vitally important relationships can be amongst devotees, particularly close ones.

 

I'm sure Theist was both surprised and gratified to be missed as he was and welcomed back so warmly.