Buy dairy and slaughter a calf

[theist]

That's a great choice Pankaja. It's all about the cows. How can we become kind while contributing to their slaughter? You are also very right about the attitude. Many vegans get almost almost as self-righteous as religionists over this point.

 

We are still killing plants. Small animals and insects die when plant food is harvested for us by this monterous machines. We step on insects etc.

 

The only truly non-violent beings are the Krsna conscious ones and they just aren't interested in being puffed up.

 

But humble or proud we must protect the cows and other animals.

 

Maybe spend some time reading about the process that is modern dairy farming and that will strengthen your resolve.

 

Maybe more devotees will become successful in their cow protection programs and provide sattvik milk again, that is milk produced from cows who are cared for in a proper manner.

 

Until then it's a boycott of that evil industry.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I'll open a Dairy Farm. hehe

 

Well maybe not but if 5000 years ago they could do it why not now? They were kinda rich as well. You could make all kinds of foods. Anybody in UK opens KC Dairy Farm let me know.

[theist]

http://www.milksucks.com

[Guest guest]

big business ,hard work for devotees unless you do what is done at Saranagati Canada check out "thou shall not kill thread" heavy .. and I don't mean with knowledge , I mean heavy karma ,nasty.

[light53]

Read Michael Zemel's research articles carefully and see how insidious the dairy industry and their cronies can be. Zemel's study in obesity research compared dairy to calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate has a very low bioavailability. I wonder if she would have found a benefit from calcium if a form that is better absorbed was used? I wonder if the dairy industry influenced her calcium choice when the study was designed? I also found on the Internet that Zemel was a nutrition advisor for the East Tennessee Vegetarian Group. A vegetarian who sold out to big food producers? What a shame!

[krsna]

Contributed by Carla Sharetto | 08 March, 2005 05:00 GMT

 

 

 

During the teen years, half of all bone is formed and about 15 percent of adult height is added. This is a critical time for calcium, and by far the most common source for calcium is milk and dairy products, says the National Dairy Council.

The National Dairy Council is striking back against the review paper by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine(PCRM) published in the March issue of Pediatrics, saying it is merely "an opinion piece."

The National Dairy Council maintains that the three authors of the article are representatives of an "animal rights organization that has only a 5 percent physician membership." When conducting their review, PCRM authors chose to ignore decades of comprehensive research endorsing dairy's role in bone health, the National Dairy Council charges.

 

Bone-Building Calcium

 

Consensus in the scientific and medical community is strong regarding the value of dairy foods in a healthy diet, says the dairy council. Information on the American Academy of Pediatrics' (AAP) current calcium policy statement is available online, the group notes.

 

The U.S. Surgeon General, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD), Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and many other reputable nutrition organizations confirm that milk and milk products are a good way for kids and teens to get the bone-building calcium they need.

 

In addition, the positive role of milk and milk products in the diet has been established through numerous clinical trials, which are considered the "gold standard" for evaluating cause-and-effect relationships, says the dairy group.

 

Calcium Crisis?

 

Kids are in a calcium crisis, contends the dairy council, which argues that they need more milk more often. During the teen years, half of all bone is formed and about 15 percent of adult height is added. This is a critical time for calcium, and by far the most common source for calcium is milk and dairy products, the group says.

 

When it comes to nutrition, people should listen to health and nutrition experts -- not animal-rights activists, the National Dairy Council believes.

 

The organization encourage consumers to learn more about sound science on calcium and bone health at the following websites:

 

 

NICHD's extensive, publicly funded education program called Milk Matters explains why milk is so essential in the development of kids and teens.

 

In 2004, the U.S. Surgeon General called for all Americans to take action to improve and maintain healthy bones. He urged people of all ages to meet daily requirements for calcium and Vitamin D with three glasses of lowfat milk each day to reach this goal.

 

The CDC's longstanding National Bone Health Campaign, Powerful Girls, Powerful Bones, encourages teen girls to get the calcium they need for healthy bones.

 

 

[krsna]

 

by Durdhara das

 

Posted on chakra April 4, 2005

 

Many devotees consume great amounts of milk products, thinking this is good for their health and helpful for their Krishna conciousness. Usually they buy it in shops or supermarkets without knowing where these products are coming from. There are many reasons why a devotee should avoid such products.

 

In western countries calves are separated from their mothers, or even killed, directly after birth. For 100 days they are imprisoned in small boxes where they cannot take even one step forward. They are fed with unnatural foods like ground-up fish or meat and are slaughtered to be sold as veal in the supermarkets or butcher shops. If the flesh is not good enough, they are transformed into dog- or cat-food.

 

Many devotees do not know that the high consumption of milk products is directly connected with the killing of the calves. The high production of milk products cannot be realized without meat production and calf killing. Millions of calves are killed every year just to maintain a high yield of milk products. Please do not say "We are offering our milk to Krishna; therefore everything will be fine." Nothing will be fine.

 

We are doing absolutely nothing for the protection of cows and calves if we buy milk products produced by non-devotees. On the contrary, we support demons by giving them our money, and they will not change anything; this much is certain. We will be entangled in very bad karma, for which we will get reactions.

 

Furthermore, the cows are also nourished with unnatural foodstuffs, which makes them crazy and diseased. In many countries they are treated with the hormone BGH, a growth hormone to increase their milk production to an absolutely unnatural amount. As a result they get mastitis, an infection of the milk-glands. Therefore they get all kinds of antibiotics, which can later be found in the milk. So do not wonder if you feel bad after drinking such milk.

 

Besides this, many people have an allergy against lactose (milk sugar) and animal proteins. Such people should completely abstain from taking milk products. For example 95 percent of Asians, 74 percent of North American Indians, 70 percent of Africans, and 53 percent of South Americans do not have the lactase enzyme necessary to digest milk. They will get sick if they drink milk, even if the milk is coming from protected cows raised on vedic principles. Symptoms can be diseases of the stomach and intestines, diarrhoea and flatulence.

 

They also are at risk of other chronic diseases if they drink milk regularly. Such diseases include type 1 diabetes; chronic infections, especially sinunitis and bronchitis; neurodermatitis; prostate, breast or ovarian cancer; arteriosclerosis, osteoporosis and diseases of the heart; and allergic reactions such as asthma. The list is long and scientifically proven.

 

It is a myth that milk is necessary for the brain or the bones. All eight essential amino acids, which cannot be produced by the body, are included in much higher concentrations in nuts, beans (especially soybeans), seeds (flax, pumpkin, sunflower, etc.), grains and fresh vegetables. Plants also contain much more vitamins than cow milk and they contain no cholesterol, a cause of arteriosclerosis that can be found in cow-milk together with different, unhealthy, saturated-fat acids.

 

Even if you do not have an allergy and you take milk from vedic farming only, please do not take too much, because it increases the mode of passion and makes one lustful. Milk is first meant for the calves; we can only take what is left after their needs are met (Isopanisad 1: ma gridhah kasyasvid dhanam).

 

We have no right to exploit the cows for our sense gratification; if we do so, we cannot make progress in our spiriual life. Before talking about higher topics, we should avoid milk products from the cow concentration camps. Nothing auspicious will come to us otherwise. I hope that the devotees will think about this.

 

[theist]

To drink or not to drink: that's the question

by Durdhara das

 

Posted May 17, 2005

 

Dear Devotees!

Please do not forget that many people can not digest milk and they will become sick if they drink cow milk, no matter what "vedic" scriptures say. I myself give up milk drinking completely,after 13 years of offering to Krishna and feel better than before, physically and mentally. For me that is sufficient enough.Vedic scriputures can not be transmittet 1:1 from india 2000 years ago to nowadays.Time, place and circumstances are very different. One should accept what is favourable and reject what is unfavourable, this is also a vedic truth.

 

If the devotees feel fine by drinking milk than they can do that. No harm. My personal realisation is, that milk is a wonderful food-- for calves up to the age of 2 or so. A calve has 4 stomaches, a human only one. Even calves give up milk drinking at a certain age.Why should we drink the milk of cows who have a very bad conciousness nowadays and are always unhappy due to the lost of their child. This is not good. I also think that no karmi farmer will give up his calve and cow killing because we buy milk from him and then offer it to Krishna. One should protest against cow and calve killing , and not support that.

 

But whatever, do what you like, but don't force people to drink milk if you know that more than a half of the world population can not digest it. One can chant Hare Krishna , control the mind love Krishna etc. also without drinking milk. It is not essential. Essential is that you feel fine and healthy by your nutrition. Accept what is favourable and reject what is unfavorouable. Different bodys need different nutrition.

 

There is no such think that "All people must drink milk, otherwise they can not become Krishna concious." Such an attitude is sectarian and not very intelligent. Krishna is in the heart of every living entity and he will give them the knowlege what is good for them and what is bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

did His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada drink this commercial milk while traveling in the world or did he prefer to drink from protected cows ?

[Guest guest]

 

Cheese uses a substance called rennet which comes from the fourth stomach of a calf. With advances, they now use syntehtic rennet, but the origin of the synthetic form still used animal rennet.

 

Cheese sold in europe, almost always uses animal rennet. vegetarian cheese is available in some places which uses synthetic rennet, but it is not really a 100% vegetarian product.

 

 

[theist]

"did His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada drink this commercial milk while traveling in the world or did he prefer to drink from protected cows ? "

 

I am told he accepted commercial milk while constantly speaking out on the need for cow protection. But you knew that didn't you? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

So is your idea to ignore his instructions on cow protection yet use him as an example of why you can continue to torture and slaughter cows for their milk?

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Lets say for example, I drank milk from a cow that was ill-treated, and I offered this milk to Krishna who duly accepted it. Is there any sin on my part? Oh no. But I accept I must try my best to practise KC and spread KC. That's the only way to stop cow killing not, refucing to drink the milk, but then you already knew that! haha!

[theist]

I have another view. I consider the best way to stop torturing and killing cows and calves to be the stopping of torturing and killing of cows and calves.

 

Like the best way to stop beating your wife and child is to stop beating your wife and child.

 

Simple direct methods appeal to me.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Has never worked and never will. I want to see you say something about doing this the KC way. Are you doing anything besides not drinking milk? McDonalds won't shut down because of this, it will because people are becoming devotees. Come on admit I am right.

[theist]

The spider kicking sand to aid Hanuman is my guru. I can't shut down McDonalds but I can refuse to prop them up.

 

"Doing this the KC way"? I thought cow protectiopn was harmonious with the KC way?

[Kulapavana]

Sometimes (usually?) devotees are very utopian in their armchair philosophies of life...

 

I heartily recommend to all these avid supporters of "100%natural and karma free" ways to actually try and grow some food and produce some milk themselves, using the techniques they recommend.

 

Sure we can quit using milk. What's next? Do you know how many bugs were killed to produce your granola bar? or your apple? tomato?

 

[Tarun]

I've heard of yogis who only lived from cow's milk.

I admire vegans, yet isn't some animal milk source required for human health?

Also, didn't SP state: "Japanese r smarter materially due to fish intake; devotees r smarter spiritually due to dugdha intake."

prasAda-sevAya

And don't those condemned cows (previous birth cow-killers)get benefit when their milk is newly/finally offered to Visnu, thus honored by practicing/preaching vaisnavas?

[Kulapavana]

vitamin B12 is synthesized by the microrganisms living in the intestines of vegetarians (both animals and humans)

[theist]

 

Sometimes (usually?) devotees are very utopian in their armchair philosophies of life...

 

 

Yeah we all witness this. /images/graemlins/wink.gif Myself I am interested in first dealing with the content of my own life.

 

 

I heartily recommend to all these avid supporters of "100%natural and karma free" ways to actually try and grow some food and produce some milk themselves, using the techniques they recommend.

 

 

I don't recommend ways of producing milk or growing my own food since I am alifetime city dweller I would most likely starve. Your point is what exactly? That because most vegans don't grow their own food you can slaughter calves? That is not so bright.

 

 

Sure we can quit using milk. What's next? Do you know how many bugs were killed to produce your granola bar? or your apple? tomato?

 

 

Typical meat eater argument. And how many more bugs are killed to feed the cows the extra grain needed to produce meat and/or milk for you to consume.

 

At least vegans can speak about cow protection without hypocrisy. You supporters of the veal industry with your claims that Krsna needs his blood milk even at the expense of the cows and calves ring hollow with those arguments to me.

 

[theist]

 

I've heard of yogis who only lived from cow's milk.

I admire vegans, yet isn't some animal milk source required for human health?

Also, didn't SP state: "Japanese r smarter materially due to fish intake; devotees r smarter spiritually due to dugdha intake."

prasAda-sevAya

And don't those condemned cows (previous birth cow-killers)get benefit when their milk is newly/finally offered to Visnu, thus honored by practicing/preaching vaisnavas?

 

 

Those yogis also drank milk from truly protected cows. So follow them.

Worried about b-12? Take a sublingual tablet. It beats taking the life of a calf.

 

Do you eat fish? Actually some fish are sources of DMAE which increase cognitive function.

 

Are devotees the only people that eat dairy. Looks like everyone in the west consumes a load of dairy everyday.

 

Offer Krsna what you like. It's your conscience you must deal with. I personally would not offer such a product of violence and cruelty.

 

[Kulapavana]

"I don't recommend ways of producing milk or growing my own food since I am alifetime city dweller I would most likely starve. Your point is what exactly? That because most vegans don't grow their own food you can slaughter calves? That is not so bright."

 

my point is, that people like you have no clue what it takes to produce your food, be it milk or grains. you folks would very quickly change your perspective after one season of growing your own eatables, fighting weeds, bugs, weather and animals. you have the luxury of living in the lala-wala land because somebody else handles the practicalities.

 

it is nice that you do not use milk - I support you 100% there - but my objection goes a lot deeper, and relates to food production in general. the Iskcon model of milk production is just plain fiction - we tried, and we failed - not because we did not try hard enough, but because the model does not work. is the answer turning vegan? I guess it is one of the options.

 

[theist]

The model itself I would not call fiction as I suspect you wouldn't really even. More like ideal but impractical for most in this particular social climate. So yes it is an option and one that makes sense to me although truthfully I did not give it up for the cow protection reason alone. I get very sick on any kind of dairy so I became vegan for health reasons first only to learn of the cow protection angle later.

 

But it is not much of a sacrifice. Think of the suffering these animals must endure.

[Guest guest]

Even ideally, there is just threefold miseries either way. As an aspiring krsna conscious cowherd, we have to make decisions to put a bullet thru the head of downer cows to protect the herd. We have to squish cut worms to save the tomato crop. Drop rock salt chunks on the slugs* and watch them melt a most horrible death to even have any veggies at all. And we lace the corn stalks with malathion to keep the fruit flies out of our certified organic watermelons.

 

So who suffers the most karma. my vote would go to the most unmerciful trade ever, that of a farmer/cowherd. Better to go into the health food store and imagine that there is no karma connected to the food we eat. mahak

 

PS *I love slugs otherwise. We have to have two big dogs to protect the berries from bears and deer, and slugs away from the actual gardens are protected. I actually collect them, place them on dog dung, and presto, no more dog dung. Two slugs per pile (from a big black newfoundland) takes only an hour or so. Sorry for my grossness, but its a first class farmer tip.

[theist]

Slugs on dog dung detail. Now that is a bonefide country boy tip if I ever heard one.

 

Here's one from a city kid. Always carry one of those small alcohol wipes for wiping your hands a couple extra times a day to kill off the little critters that get on your hands from the various hand rails and doors and stuff when moving through the city.

 

 

Hey Mahak, we should get a syndicated weekly column going with this common sense advice.

 

Country boy and city kid bringin' it to ya.

[Kulapavana]

"The model itself I would not call fiction as I suspect you wouldn't really even. More like ideal but impractical for most in this particular social climate."

 

I still consider it a fiction, because it has no basis in reality. Even in Vedic times they would get rid of the old cows by setting them free into the woods, where they had a pretty slim chance of surviving. And milk itself was quite scarce in general, as in the story of Asvatthama's childhood. As a boy, he never tasted milk, because they were very poor. Some other kids played a joke on him by giving him some white colored water. When Asvatthama danced with joy, happy that he finally tasted milk, the cruel kids just laughed at him. Seeing this, Dronacharya's heart broke, and he decided to become a paid teacher in the house of Kuru, so he can provide for his family...

 

Anyway, you can call it an "impractical ideal" if you like - there is no harm in that - but trying to base your practical economic system on such ideas leads nowhere. Brahmanas can afford to be impractical, because they are maintained by others. but the kshatriyas who actually run the society do not have that luxury. And that is precisely why Manu Samhita places all governing functions in the hands of kshatriyas.