The Different faces of Bhagavad Gita?

[rohit]

I have seen many translations of the Bhagavad Gita and still new

translations are coming. I also noticed that the translation by anyone

believing in "Karma Yoga", gives more stress on "Karma Marg", the one

in the "Bhakti Marg", gives stress on Bhakti and the one with "Gyana

Marg" gives more stress on "Gyana". Even recently I saw a new

translation by a yogi who gives more stress on the "Yoga Marg" in the

Bhagvad Gita.

 

The author of the most recent translation I have looked says in the

preface that anyone who is at the level of Krishna can actually (really)

be able to tell the actual meanings of the Slokas Krishna said in the

Bhagvad Gita. He says that his late guru was a great yogi with a very

high spiritual state, was at the level of krishna. So he has compiled

the translation of the Gita which his Guru had done.

 

The above statement really suits me that "one at the level of krishna

can tell the actual meanings."

 

I know that some may criticise the above statement as to how one can

be of the level of krishna.

 

Even if we consider Siddhas and Rishis who have reached to very high

spiritual states, the translation done by them can reflect the actual

meaning of the Bhagavad Gita since they are the practical man and have

experienced the truth personally.

 

So how can a normal man rely on any of the translations available in

the market. He will be baffled with the different meanings.

And there, at that moment, a god-realized saint, a practical man,

is needed as a Guru who can guide the disciple.

It is also written in our scriptures that the "Shastras, Veda etc."

can be understood only with "Guru Mukh". And not a theoretical Guru,

but a Siddha practical guru.

 

I have also seen Vaishnavas saying that only those surrendering to Krishna

(Vishnu) will become free from birth and death. And those worshiping

Shiva, Durga and other devas will come back again.

 

If you see Devi Bhagavat, the Devi has also said about the same three

Margas, Bhakti, Jnana and Karma, to reach her. She is also considered

"Moksha Dayini" in the Devi Bhagavat. What happens to the "Nishkama"

devotees of Devi. Are they not liberated from birth and death?

Then what about the renowned saints like Shri Ramkrishna Paramhamsa?

 

Similar interpretations can be found in "Shiva Puran" also. If Lord

Shiva is considered the main lord of this universe only, then

why Krishna asked Arjuna to please Lord Shiva and obtain "Pashupatastra"

from him. There was no need for Arjuna to obtain "Pashupat Astra"

since Lord Krishna was driving his chariot. Without his will no

Astra could have penetrated Arjuna's Chest.

 

So I think that the laws of Gita are universal whether we worship

Shiva, Durga, Bramha, Vishnu.

 

Regards,

Rohit.

 

 

[yasodanandana]

I also noticed that the translation by anyone

believing in "Karma Yoga", gives more stress on "Karma Marg", the one

in the "Bhakti Marg", gives stress on Bhakti and the one with "Gyana

Marg" gives more stress on "Gyana". Even recently I saw a new

translation by a yogi who gives more stress on the "Yoga Marg" in the

Bhagvad Gita.

...the secret is "no stressing"... bhagavd gita has to be read "as it is", everything is explained plain and simple:

 

sarva-dharman parityajya

mam ekam saranam vraja

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah

 

SYNONYMS

sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry.

 

TRANSLATION

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

 

"you abandon unto me" means that arjuna and krsna are separated person, no advaita, no merging, no mental projections by arjuna

"abandon" and "surrender" means "abandon any self interest and surrender to me your tendence to be independent"... so love, bhakti

"I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. " means that after the surrendering there's no merging or "oneness", because krsna keep caring of the devotee protecting him from the reaction , so two persons united in a loving relationship... bhakti

 

.

 

I have looked says in the

preface that anyone who is at the level of Krishna can actually (really)

be able to tell the actual meanings of the Slokas

..sure, if one's krsna he understand perfectly bhagavad gita!! the problem is that if one's not krsna he cannot reach His level, it is not possible to get god's status, if one's god, he's eternally god. The only thing to say is that we have to study spiritual scriptures under the guide of a person who sees krsna, who sees the spiritual truth, the real, pure spiritual master

 

So how can a normal man rely on any of the translations available in

the market. He will be baffled with the different meanings.

..consider "bhagavad gita as it is" translated and commented by srila bhaktivedanta swami prabhupada... you will have text, sanskrit text, word for word prospect to check if the translation is faithful to the text, traduction, and the commentary of a master who has turned (and he's going on even now trough disciples and other vaishnavas) thousands of "outcastes"(me the worst of them all) all over the world in vedantist and brahmins in an exalted and ortodox spiritual path like gaudya vaishnavism

 

I have also seen Vaishnavas saying that only those surrendering to Krishna

(Vishnu) will become free from birth and death. And those worshiping

Shiva, Durga and other devas will come back again.

..not if you worship devatas with the purpose to have an help to reach the supreme lord. The supreme goal is to reach the supreme, not the subordinate.. everything is written in gita, the most important thing is not to twist krsna's words, when krsna says "i am supreme.." we have to read "i am supreme..." or, if we have different purposes than reading the words of krsna, better to reject gita and write our own book

 

Are they not liberated from birth and death?

Then what about the renowned saints like Shri Ramkrishna Paramhamsa?

..simply we have to learn the basics. The great advantage of vedas in comparison to other ways to reach god is that vedas give privilege to the school approach, not to the faith approach. So there's simply to read bhagavad gita as it is and accept a pure spiritual master with the qualities suggested in gita, from a dinasty (parampara) started by god himself. Guru is acharya,"the one who teachs behaviour... with behaviour", so perfect guru has to be a perfect disciple of another pure guru, otherwise how he can pretend obedience by us?. In this way we will learn who we are, what are our real needs, what's a supreme goal, what's a subordinate goal and what is a dead street or wrong path... gradually..... school, not whimsical inspiration or blind faith

 

why Krishna asked Arjuna to please Lord Shiva and obtain "Pashupatastra"

from him

..lila..... one of the opulences of god is humbleness, many times god act as a subordinate of his devotees.. like krsna when he's acting as the little child of yasoda mata receiving chastizements and being bounded by her rope, so in this circumstance lord siva is included in mahabharata lilas in this wonderful way

 

and gita is a lila... the karmic aspect of kuruksetra war is already defined by krsna at the start of the gita "these warriors are already dead....", so krsna, as the creator and sustainer of karma law has already the preminence and victory before the battle starts

 

the real purpose og kurukserta battle is to delight devotees with the display of all these wonderful exchanges between these exalted personalities and to have the opportunity, for sri krsna bhagavan, to newly announce his gospel, message, truth with the gita and give new start to spiritual dinasy, parampara

 

There was no need for Arjuna to obtain "Pashupat Astra"

since Lord Krishna was driving his chariot.

..no, why? the protection of krsna is in the suggestion to get pashupata from lord siva, krsna many times, chooses to act through his devotees

 

So I think that the laws of Gita are universal whether we worship

Shiva, Durga, Bramha, Vishnu.

..the laws of gita are universal and effective even for us if we abandone a little the "i think", "i believe" concept and we study these laws in a cultural, scientific way (=school) under the guidance of a real spiritual master coming directly from a dinasty, school, university (=parampara) started by krsna, the one who speaks the gita.

Other considerations are marginal...

 

hare krishna dear rohit.... tell me pleaSe what you think of my answer

 

check this..

http://www.asitis.com/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rohit]

yasodanandan,

 

You wrote:

--------------------------------

SYNONYMS

sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry.

 

TRANSLATION

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

 

"I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. " means that after the surrendering there's no merging or "oneness", because krsna keep caring of the devotee protecting him from the reaction , so two persons united in a loving relationship... bhakti

--------------------------------

I have seen in life people who have surrendered completely, in painful conditions, neither there is life nor death. What else is the "sinful reaction". Even the advanced devotees suffering from incurable diseases. If the diseases get permanently cured, then it is true that "I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction", but it is not so.

Can you imagine the pain of a person lying in death bed, unfortunately a devotee too, suffering from dreaded disease, and also of not much age. He has no option.

 

There is a small book called "Hanuman Bahuk" which Tulsidas wrote. It is said that once Tulsidas suffered with severe pain in one of his hands and the vaidyas were unable to cure. So he prayed to "Hamumanji" and he got cured permanently. That prayer is contained in "Hanuman Bahuk". So here and in many other times people only get compleltely cured from small diseases through prayer. But today's dreaded incurable diseases are not cured even with prayers and even true devotees die from them.

 

Is it so that in those diseases neither PRAYER not MEDICINE works?

 

[yasodanandana]

I have seen in life people who have surrendered completely, in painful conditions, neither there is life nor death. What else is the "sinful reaction"

-realized devotees live in the spiritual realm even if we wrongly see them entangled in meterial body, it is very easy, for example reading vaishnava acharyas biographies, to see that they, in apparent painful conditions, are completely entusiast and able to preach perfectly krsna consciousness.. and , most of all, they are able to keep their mind concentrated on krsna at the "death" moment. In this way we recognise that their pain is only apparent and a lila to teach disciples wich is the behaviour of a spiritualist at the moment of death. The spiritual master also displays apparent difficulty and pain to have a new relationship with the beloved disciples, before he cared for them, now disciples take the master's place, caring for him, giving advices for medicines, diet etc. In this particular verse of the gita the reactions are the ones that one takes if he does not respect his place in the society, family etc. Krsna says that if we surrender completely and we give up our material duties for it he will take the karma reactions. Think of a sannyasi who, for the society, become essentially a beggar, he leaves job, family, sons, wife etc... If he do it without real surrendering he will have to suffer greatly, if it is a real surrendering, only if it is real and complete, krsna will protect from karma reactions of his escaping from social duties

 

Can you imagine the pain of a person lying in death bed, unfortunately a devotee too, suffering from dreaded disease, and also of not much age. He has no option.

-i can imagine, because i had some health problems recently... and i know that i am very far to be a pure devotee because i have experimented that in great pain i forget of krsna very easily. But real devotees, the ones who have followed completely the krsna's instruction "sarva dharma..." are easily recognizable in these painful moments.... and ultimately they do not suffer at all, they're completely in transcendence

 

.

 

But today's dreaded incurable diseases are not cured even with prayers and even true devotees die from them.

Is it so that in those diseases neither PRAYER not MEDICINE works?

-devotees are not interested in living eternally in this world, if krsna arranges a lila making them stay a little more with us conditioned souls, they obey and stay.... if not.. they go giving their service in spiritual planets. The body is krsna's property and it is the instrument to make devotional service through varnashrama system, so we have the duty to care for it more as we can.. and to help other devotees in this care.... but one day we must go

[rohit]

As I quoted above in my previous post about Tulsidas's "Hanuman Bahuk".

Is praying to God at the time of painful suffering wrong? If yes, then

Tulsidas was not a true devotee?

 

Secondly, in Gita Krishna says:

 

"<font color="blue">Among "SHASTRADHARI's" I am RAM, Among "RUDRA's I am SHANKAR...</font color>".

 

As you said in one of the previous posts, in response to

"...Mamekam Sharnam Vrij", that "I" in this sloka of Gita is "Krishna".

He did not say about either RAM nor SHIVA. Then who is RAM and what

is the difference between KRISHNA avatar and RAM avatar.

 

Are RAM and KRISHNA one and the same thing? And is it so that among

the BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESH only VISHNU is supreme. Or, KRISHNA is

different from these three?

 

In Ramcharitmanas, Tulsidas writes that SHIVA and VISHNU are one. In

the same, RAM says that "<font color="blue">the one who sees DIFFERENCE between VISHNU

and SHIVA is a fool? And without SHIVA BHAKTI one cannot attain my Bhakti.</font color>"

 

And in Gita Krishna says "Mamekam Sharnam Vrij".

 

Please clear it.

[yasodanandana]

Is praying to God at the time of painful suffering wrong?

-absolutely not wrong, if we are not advanced and we want to be healthy for sense gratification we are at least acknowledging that all the good that happens to us is from sri krsna. And an advanced devotee can ask a good health with the only purpose to serve krsna.. so anyway no problem

 

Then who is RAM and what

is the difference between KRISHNA avatar and RAM avatar.

-ram, krsna and all avataras are the same person. It is correct to say that krsna is supreme because he shows intimacy and love with his devotees more than other personalities who show more or less a preminent official aspect as god, isvara, creator, mantainer. We make a comparison with a great king or president that has a public image when he's acting in the society and when he goes home and he deals very intimately with wife, sons, and relatives. Maybe the great king privately is disobeyed by sons, chastized by wife and mother and adviced by the father and he relationate with friends as another friend at the same level. So, generally, we consider more deep, intimate and complete this kind of manifestation of the king's personality than the official ones. For this reason is correct to consider krsna as the supreme personality of godhead, source of all other manifestations and impersonal brahman. Not because we are politeists believing in the existence of many gods, but because we see that krsna's personality is the most complete display of divine qualities.