Bhu-mandala and stuff

[Govindaram]

 

The original conversation is very long, just an excerpt, could anybody explain this stuff in a simple way or not /images/graemlins/crazy.gif?

 

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion

--

July 2, 1977, Vrndavana

 

Tamala Krsna: Look at the earth. Now, this is a real question that we still have to answer. They picture the earth round, and we say, no. Bhu-mandala is like a lotus, like this, and the earth is only one part of one island in Bhu-mandala, and it's not, you know, it's not round(?). It doesn't look like that. And all the pictures they take of the earth when they go up in their satellites show round. And we're going to tell them that it's not. This is a very tricky question. In other words, if this is the picture of the world, like this, and we say that... If we take an airplane from here, from Los Angeles. Now, supposing we go to India, which is here. So there's two ways to go. One way, you can go like this, and the other way, you can go like that. But if the earth is not a round globe, then how is it sometimes people go from Los Angeles via Hawaii to Japan and then India? So we can't figure this out. We have experience, those of us who have flown, that actually the plane went from Los Angeles to Hawaii to Tokyo to Hong Kong and then to India. So it doesn't work out in our maps so far, right? We can't figure it out. This thing has to be very complete in its answers. Otherwise everyone will laugh at us. We can't leave any loopholes.

[theist]

have you ever stood on the shore and watched a distant ship disappear over the horizen? So if the Earth was flat it wouldn't do that right?

 

I don't get too hung up on trying to understand vedic cosmology. One sun, the moon is father away then the sun, the Earth is flat etc.

 

People will say "oh its the spotless Purana". OK why argue. It may be correct in all those things but it means nothing to me if I don't understand it.

 

I mean one sun for the whole universe? In a universe of countless galaxies I think not. So maybe universe means solar system or something. Whatever it is its amazing. And to think that its all just a spark of the Supreme Person's splendor. Just contemplating it should stun us if we weren't so dull.

 

Besides all these universes are just temporary props on a stage. A very great stage no doubt, but just a drop compared to our eternal existence. "Nothing to get hung about..."

[Guest guest]

http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~ghi/catalog.txt

[Guest guest]

Scroll down...once in the below page

 

http://www.eastsib.ru/~bpchk/sacred.htm

[Govindaram]

 

The acintya-bheda-bheda, philosophy, we cannot understand Krsna with our minds, so the world is like a big soul, the only way to understand it is if we are pure, though we can get clues from Bhagavatam.

[theist]

Govindaram prabhu,

 

Here is a letter that has helped me deal will some of these doubt causing areas. Personally I can't understand very well the material scientist's viewpoint or the Bhagavatam's, or Sadaputa's attempts to harmonize them (as in above links). So I have found peace with the knowledge that I will never understand how its all constructed and arranged. Maya works wonderfully and she works under Krishna's superintendence.

 

All I can hope to take from it all in the end is a deeper appreciation for Krishna's greatness.

 

But I admire devotees with the expertise to speak intelligently to the scientific community. The scientists are big leaders in today's society. To turn some of them toward Krsna would mean turning masses of others as well.

 

Such may not be within the capacity of all of us. We must find our own niche and be satisfied that Krishna is in control and remain free from doubt.

 

This letter just blew all that anxiety I once felt on these issues away.

 

Letter to: Krsnadasa

--

Vrindaban

7 November, 1972

72-11-07

 

My Dear Krsnadasa,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that

vedaham samatitani

vartamanani carjuna

bhavisyani ca bhutani

mam tu veda na kascana

[bg. 7.26]

that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise.

But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King Puranjana. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version:

gam avisya ca bhutani

dharayamy aham ojasa

pusnami causadhih sarvah

somo bhutvah rasatmakah

(BG, 15.13)

``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know.

Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: ``Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and

you mam evam asammudho

janati purusottamam

sa sarva-vid bhajati mam

(BG, XV, 19)

``Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''--this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding. Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

[Govindaram]

 

from above

Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge,

---

 

Jaya Gaura-hari, Jaya Prabhupada!

 

Even after reading the letter I was deviating, then I told my mind to 'shut-it' and listen to Prabhupada.

 

After reading the letter I thought of this pastime: /images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

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www.krsnabook.com/ch41.html (excerpt)

 

Finishing the rest of his ritualistic performance, he went near the chariot of Balarama and Krsna and was struck with wonder. Krsna asked whether he had seen something wonderful within the water or in space. Akrura said, "My dear Lord, all wonderful things that are happening within this world, either in the sky or in the water or on the land, are factually appearing in Your universal form. So when I have seen You, what wonderful things have I not seen?"

 

This statement confirms the Vedic version that one who knows Krsna knows everything, and one who has seen Krsna has seen everything, regardless of how wonderful a thing may be. "My dear Lord," Akrura continued, "there cannot be anything more wonderful than Your transcendental form. When I have seen Your transcendental form, what is there left to see?"

<font color="red"> === </font color>

[theist]

Like Arjuna wanted to see Krsna in His Universal Form, had his mind completely blown, and then Krsna told him what need was there of such a vision as it was all just a spark of His splendor.

 

So, if we like and if Krsna grants it we may have a similar vision, but perhaps we will just seek out Syamasundara. But that doesn't mean ignoring Krishna as the taste in water, or the Sun etc.

 

Seems to be as many ways to relate to Krishna as there are jivas.

[Kulapavana]

planet Earth is only a small part of Bhu-mandala or the Earthly Circle. Meditate on the Gayatri mantra which speaks of the three worlds (Earthly, Heavenly and Hellish) and you will understand with time. If you are just walking on the ground, the Earth DOES seem to be flat. In the past yugas you could walk to other parts of Bhu-mandala and this part of the universe CAN be described as flat.

[Govindaram]

 

"In the past yugas you could walk to other parts of Bhu-mandala"

 

Wow! what do you know about the dinosaurs, did they live 250millions of years ago? and why isn't there any human remains to be found of this age, is it false propaganda?

[Kulapavana]

There were probably very few humans at the time of dinosaurs (Earth is rarely overpopulated, and that happens only in some Kali-yugas). And it takes a very special set of circumstances for bones to be fossilized (rapid covering of body by very thick layer of fine sediment (sand or river mud) and subsequent covering by even more material to create sufficient pressure. there are known human footprints discovered along dino prints in very ancient river mud fossils, but that is about all discovered so far. Read Forbidden Archeology by Sadaputa dasa, there is a lot of good info there.

[Govindaram]

 

The Journey of Self - Discovery-

Chapter Seven (excerpt)

 

Devotee: But Darwin says there are many species, like dinosaurs, that are seen to be extinct.

 

Srila Prabhupada: What has he seen? He is not so powerful that he can see everywhere or everything. His power to see is limited, and by that limited power he cannot conclude that one species is extinct. That is not possible. No scientist will accept that. After all, all the senses by which you gather knowledge are limited, so how can you say this is finished or that is extinct? You cannot see. You cannot search out. The earth's circumference is twenty-five thousand miles; have you searched through all the layers of rock and soil over the whole earth? Have you excavated all those places?

Devotee: No.

========

 

Dinos may be 'extict' here on this Earth, but somewhere on another Island {planet} they are havin fun. /images/graemlins/grin.gif