Prabhupada disciples please come back!

[Guest guest]

There isn't much time. Many of Srila Prabhupada's original disciples have left their bodies. Many have gone to the Gaudiya Matha against his wishes due to misunderstandings with fellow godbrothers etc. . We need to all come together as one big family and serve His Divine Grace as he wanted us to. Some have even gone to completely different denominations? Come back home back to prabhupada! And back to Iskcon. And back to real Krishna Consciousness, where the bliss is and ecstacy.

[veronica8888]

None of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers helped him though he begged them and offered them positions to rule temples in Iskcon as bribes. Yet these same devotees when Prabhupada left the planet claim that Prabhupada wanted them to lead his movement. Why didn't they then? They were too busy eating in the temples they fought to secure from the Gaudiya Matha after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta left the planet. It has long been considered in Iskcon to be like a swear word, THE GAUDIYA MATHA! Don't even mention them they are so offensive to their guru Srila Bhaktisiddhanta.

They criticise Srila Prabhupada and take his disciples but without Srila Prabhupada this web site wouldn't exist. All is happening by His mercy. Srila Prabhupada ki jai! And they blaspemously claim Prabhupada didn't give us everything. What nonsense! Some kanistha reads a few books he isn't qualified to touch even and then spouts some philosophy and suddenly he is an uttama adhikari! A true uttama adhikari would recognise another one in Srila Prabhupada and not criticise. As for me criticising, Srila Prabhupada said his godbrothers ruined the Gaudiya Matha.

[theist]

I would think that some of them are following Srila Prabhupada by following his instructions. Remember its the instructions and not the address that counts.

 

Sure many have just fallen and in many ways. They will back to his vani also in due course.

[theist]

veronica, in the spirit of accepting gold from a dirty place please consider this advice. Watch who you hear from. If you find yourself in a group of people sitting around criticizing Prabhupada's God brothers it is best to just cover your ears and leave.

 

Rather the remarks are true or not there won't be any nectar there. You have accepted Srila Prabhupada as the person you want to follow. That's complete and it doesn't include that old worn topic.

 

Prabhupada said:"Who you hear from, that is your guru."

And we also have heard that "one who is free from the desire to criticize others is fit to make disciples worldwide."

[Guest guest]

It always strucks me with wonder to see that the false, sectarian concept of "only Iskcon is good and only Prabhupad is good" still exists in some persons, reminding me of the new-born "Christians" who mindlessly chant "only Jesus saves, all others burn!!!". Religious fanaticism remains religious faaticism, no matter who the chosen "idol" is...

[yasodanandana]

it is true.. but the meaning of iskcon is international society of krsna consciousness.. so who's practicing krsna consciousness is in iskcon or in the spirit of iskcon

 

and prabhupada is good, the only good, the exclusive... but prabhupada is not a material leader who when he dies he's gone away, prabhupada is the visible manifestation of sri paramatma and it is not possible that paramatma abandones us after the passing away even of such great and exalted acharya

 

so we must recognise prabhupada's spirit, acharya's spirit, paramatma's spirit even in other vaishnavas present and acting in this world in various organizations

 

god gives us freedom making us blind with maya when we desire to come in this material world, but god grants the same freedom, sending eternally uttama adikari vaishnavas to save us

 

prabhupada's/paramatma's spirit lives eternally in pure vaishnavas acting to save us by maya's bondage

[veronica8888]

Where do you get your information from? Prabhupada is parmatma now? It is best to accept an uttama adhikari so if we all sit around talking about Prabhupada and not the Gaudiya Matha don't feel sorry for yourselves, escpecially if you left Prabhupada. Even if you didn't, you can always take the exclusive association of His Divine Grace.

[Guest guest]

" It is best to accept an uttama adhikari so if we all sit around talking about Prabhupada and not the Gaudiya Matha don't feel sorry"

 

is prabhupada muslim or buddhist?

[gHari]

Srimad Bhagavatam 4.8.44:<blockquote><CENTER>

prANAyAmena tri-vRtA

prANendriya-mano-malam

zanair vyudasyAbhidhyAyen

manasA guruNA gurum

</CENTER>

prANAyAmena--by breathing exercises; tri-vRtA--by the three recommended ways; prANa-indriya--the life air and the senses; manaH--mind; malam--impurity; zanaiH--gradually; vyudasya--giving up; abhidhyAyet--meditate upon; manasA--by the mind; guruNA--undisturbed; gurum--the supreme spiritual master, KRSNa.

After sitting on your seat, practice the three kinds of breathing exercises, and thus gradually control the life air, the mind and the senses. Completely free yourself from all material contamination, and with great patience begin to meditate on the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

PURPORT

In this verse the entire yoga system is described in summary, and special stress is given to the breathing exercises for stopping the disturbing mind. The mind, by nature, is always oscillating, for it is very fickle, but the breathing exercise is meant to control it. This process of controlling the mind might have been very possible in those days millions of years ago when Dhruva MahArAja took to it, but at the present moment the mind has to be fixed directly on the lotus feet of the Lord by the chanting process. By chanting the Hare KRSNa mantra one immediately concentrates on the sound vibration and thinks of the lotus feet of the Lord, and very quickly one is elevated to the position of samAdhi, or trance. If one goes on chanting the holy names of the Lord, which are not different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, naturally his mind becomes absorbed in thought of the Lord.

 

It is here recommended to Dhruva MahArAja that he meditate on the supreme guru, or supreme spiritual master. The supreme spiritual master is KRSNa, who is therefore known as caitya-guru. This refers to the Supersoul, who is sitting in everyone's heart. He helps from within as stated in Bhagavad-gItA, and He sends the spiritual master, who helps from without. The spiritual master is the external manifestation of the caitya-guru, or the spiritual master sitting in everyone's heart.

 

The process by which we give up our thoughts of material things is called pratyAhAra, which entails being freed from all material thoughts and engagements. The word abhidhyAyet, which is used in this verse, indicates that unless one's mind is fixed, one cannot meditate. The conclusion, therefore, is that meditation means thinking of the Lord within. Whether one comes to that stage by the aSTAGga-yoga system or by the method recommended in the zAstras especially for this present age--to constantly chant the holy name of the Lord--the goal is to meditate on the Supreme Personality of Godhead.</blockquote>

 

[Jagadananda]

I am so very grateful for his books! Srila Prabhupada is so awesome!

[veronica8888]

I thought somehow there was a difference between the Paramatma and the aspect of Caitya-guru.

[Guest guest]

so you do not know very well the basics but you are ready to judge devotees, gurus, organizations

[theist]

guestji please don't be quick to judge veronica either. We are all influenced by our association.

[Guest guest]

to give an advice is also association

[theist]

You are correct. I may have misjudged your motive. I apologize if that's the case. It's just that if someone has their initial introduction to Krsna consciousness via one group they are not really in a position to understand so clearly and just tend to accept the opinions of those around them. I was thinking that may be the case with veronica and wanted to mention that we should show some patientce.

 

Sorry to disturb your mind.

[gHari]

From teachings of Queen Kunti:<blockquote>The Vedic knowledge is given to everyone because KRSNa is within everyone's heart (sarvasya cAhaM hRdi sanniviSTaH), but one must be qualified to receive that knowledge. KRSNa helps us by giving us knowledge both from within as the Supersoul (caitya-guru) and from without as the spiritual master.</blockquote>

From Narada-Bhakti-Sutra:<blockquote>The oneness of God and guru (or God and all living beings) is a oneness in quality. The living entities are small samples of the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is full, powerful, and opulent. The living beings tend to forget their qualitative oneness with the Lord, and so He appears in the form of scriptures, great souls, and the caitya-guru (Supersoul) to remind us of our spiritual identity. The Supersoul doesn't have to be reminded of His own divinity, because He is never designated by a material body. This is another difference between the jIvas and the Lord: The Lord is always self-enlightened in His spiritual form, while the jIvas are always prone to come under the influence of mAyA. Another difference between the two is that the Supersoul is present in everyone's body, whereas the individual conditioned soul is present in one particular body.</blockquote>

SB 4.28.42:<blockquote><CENTER>sAkSAd bhagavatoktena

guruNA hariNA nRpa

vizuddha-jJAna-dIpena

sphuratA vizvato-mukham

</CENTER>

sAkSAt--directly; bhagavatA--by the Supreme Personality of Godhead; uktena--instructed; guruNA--the spiritual master; hariNA--by Lord Hari; nRpa--O King; vizuddha--pure; jJAna--knowledge; dIpena--by the light of; sphuratA--enlightening; vizvataH-mukham--all angles of vision.

In this way King Malayadhvaja attained perfect knowledge because in his pure state he was directly instructed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. By means of such enlightening transcendental knowledge, he could understand everything from all angles of vision.

 

PURPORT

In this verse the words sAkSAd bhagavatoktena guruNA hariNA are very significant. The Supreme Personality of Godhead speaks directly to the individual soul when the devotee has completely purified himself by rendering devotional service to the Lord. Lord KRSNa confirms this also in Bhagavad-gItA (10.10):

<CENTER>

teSAM satata-yuktAnAM

bhajatAM prIti-pUrvakam

dadAmi buddhi-yogaM taM

yena mAm upayAnti te

</CENTER>

"To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me."

 

The Lord is the Supersoul seated in everyone's heart, and He acts as the caitya-guru, the spiritual master within. However, He gives direct instructions only to the advanced, pure devotees. In the beginning, when a devotee is serious and sincere, the Lord gives him directions from within to approach a bona fide spiritual master. When one is trained by the spiritual master according to the regulative principles of devotional service and is situated on the platform of spontaneous attachment for the Lord (rAga-bhakti), the Lord also gives instructions from within. TeSAM satata-yuktAnAM bhajatAM prIti-pUrvakam [bg. 10.10]. This distinct advantage is obtained by a liberated soul. Having attained this stage, King Malayadhvaja was directly in touch with the Supreme Lord and was receiving instructions from Him directly.</blockquote>

SB 4.28.53:<blockquote><CENTER>brAhmaNa uvAca

kA tvaM kasyAsi ko vAyaM

zayAno yasya zocasi

jAnAsi kiM sakhAyaM mAM

yenAgre vicacartha ha

</CENTER>

brAhmaNaH uvAca--the learned brAhmaNa said; kA--who; tvam--you; kasya--whose; asi--are you; kaH--who; vA--or; ayam--this man; zayAnaH--lying down; yasya--for whom; zocasi--you are lamenting; jAnAsi kim--do you know; sakhAyam--friend; mAm--Me; yena--with whom; agre--formerly; vicacartha--you consulted; ha--certainly.

The brAhmaNa inquired as follows: Who are you? Whose wife or daughter are you? Who is the man lying here? It appears you are lamenting for this dead body. Don't you recognize Me? I am your eternal friend. You may remember that many times in the past you have consulted Me.

 

PURPORT

When a person's relative dies, renunciation is automatically visible. Consultation with the Supersoul seated within everyone's heart is possible only when one is completely free from the contamination of material attachment. One who is sincere and pure gets an opportunity to consult with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His ParamAtmA feature sitting within everyone's heart. The ParamAtmA is always the caitya-guru, the spiritual master within, and He comes before one externally as the instructor and initiator spiritual master. The Lord can reside within the heart, and He can also come out before a person and give him instructions. Thus the spiritual master is not different from the Supersoul sitting within the heart. An uncontaminated soul or living entity can get a chance to meet the ParamAtmA face to face. Just as one gets a chance to consult with the ParamAtmA within his heart, one also gets a chance to see Him actually situated before him. Then one can take instructions from the Supersoul directly. This is the duty of the pure devotee: to see the bona fide spiritual master and consult with the Supersoul within the heart.

 

When the brAhmaNa asked the woman who the man lying on the floor was, she answered that he was her spiritual master and that she was perplexed about what to do in his absence. At such a time the Supersoul immediately appears, provided the devotee is purified in heart by following the directions of the spiritual master. A sincere devotee who follows the instructions of the spiritual master certainly gets direct instructions from his heart from the Supersoul. Thus a sincere devotee is always helped directly or indirectly by the spiritual master and the Supersoul. This is confirmed in Caitanya-caritAmRta: guru-kRSNa-prasAde pAya bhakti-latA-bIja. If the devotee serves his spiritual master sincerely, KRSNa automatically becomes pleased. Yasya prasAdAd bhagavad-prasAdaH. By satisfying the spiritual master, one automatically satisfies KRSNa. Thus the devotee becomes enriched by both the spiritual master and KRSNa. The Supersoul is eternally the friend of the living entity and always remains with him. The Supersoul has always been ready to help the living entity, even before the creation of this material world. It is therefore stated here: yenAgre vicacartha. The word agre means "before the creation." Thus the Supersoul has been accompanying the living entity since before the creation.</blockquote>

Lecture 1972:<blockquote>Therefore we sing daily, yasya prasAdAd bhagavat-prasAdaH **. By the mercy of guru, immediately we become, get the mercy of God. Yasya prasAdAd bhagavat-prasAdo yasyAprasAdAn na gatiH kuto 'pi **. YasyAprasAdAt. By... If guru is not satisfied, then na gatiH kuto 'pi. He has no gati. Gati means advancement. He has no advancement. DhyAyaM stuvaMs tasya yazas tri-sandhyam. Therefore this GurvaSTaka, saMsAra-dAvAnala, we have to sing. So God's incarnation, here it is said, "There are many incarnations." So guru is also incarnation of God, mercy incarnation of God. Guru means that... God is within you, caitya-guru, the guru, or the spiritual master, within your heart. IzvaraH sarva-bhUtAnAM hRd-deze 'rjuna tiSThati [bg. 18.61]. So this ParamAtmA is also incarnation of God. And the same ParamAtmA, when He comes before you, being very much merciful upon you, to teach you from outside, that is guru. Therefore it is said, sAkSAd-dharitvena samasta-zAstraiH. Guru is the mercy incarnation of God. SAkSAt, direct. Hari-tvena, he is Hari, God. Samasta-zAstraiH. It is not that somewhere it is stated, somewhere it is not stated. No. In all Vedic literature. SAkSAd-dharitvena samasta-zAstrair uktaH **. UktaH means "it is said." And tathA bhAvyata eva sadbhiH. SadbhiH, those who are real devotees, they accept this. "Yes, guru is exactly representative of KRSNa, mercy representative."</blockquote>

[Guest guest]

To the person who started this thread...

 

In the quote below please see the qualities and consciousness of the kanistha adhikari devotee. Isn't this description of the kanistha adhikari devotee a description of you?

 

 

Isopanishad, verse 6,

 

Purport by Srila Prabhupada:

 

There are three stages to realization of the Supreme Lord's presence. The kanistha-adhikari is in the lower stage of realization. He goes to one place of worship, such as a temple, church or mosque, according to his religious faith, and worships there according to scriptural injunctions. Such a devotee considers the Lord to be present at the place of worship and nowhere else. He cannot ascertain who is in what position in devotional service, nor can he tell who has realized the Supreme Lord. Such devotees follow the routine formulas and sometimes quarrel amongst themselves, considering one type of devotion better than another. These kanistha-adhikaris are actually materialistic devotees who are simply trying to transcend the material boundaries in order to reach the spiritual plane.

[theist]

thing that I have observed is that some of Prabhupada's disciples have considered the teaching of someone like B.R. Sridhar Maharaja and have felt great inspiration from him. That doesn't mean they have less for Srila Prabhupada. It's not an either/or situation.

 

Now once having experienced that how can they into a situation,temple or not, where he is criticized? They spent many years hearing Srila Prabhupada warn about hearing offenses to devotees. They would offend Prabhupada by doing so.

 

Or even if things are left unsaid these attitudes can still be felt.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I'm into Gaudiya Math and we worship Srila Prabhupad... again some fanatical devotees are coming to start the ....

what can i say... it's so funny wheni go to soem temple and one asks me "who is your Guru?" i say: "Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaj" they say" well, that's ok, that's ok !" but i can see in their eyes it's not ok for them, so i just smile....

 

When will they understand !?

sunanda das

[theist]

Maybe it is like different branches growing in apparently different directions,seemingly apart but ultimately bearing the same type of fruit.

[Guest guest]

Dandavats,

 

Well, we are all serving Krishna. I don't understand why we don't focuss on that a little bit more.

And one thing's for sure: all the arguing and namecalling can definitely discourage a 'neophyte' devotee and if that devotee is not able to see the big tree, as has been mentioned, and if he keeps seeing all the branches seperate, well belief me, that can drive someone away from Krishna consciousness. The focuss should be Krishna.

 

YS.

cRimAl.

[theist]

and that is the greatest tragedy. It must be very difficult for a newbie to have to sort through all this .. And very unfair.

[Guest guest]

 

It always strucks me with wonder to see that the false, sectarian concept of "only Iskcon is good and only Prabhupad is good" still exists in some persons, reminding me of the new-born "Christians" who mindlessly chant "only Jesus saves, all others burn!!!". Religious fanaticism remains religious faaticism, no matter who the chosen "idol" is...

 

 

What always strikes me with wonder is the assumption that all Iskcon devotees are into the modern day miskcon or that they are automatically sectarian and dont believe there can be pure devotees elsewhere on the planet, merely based on the fact that they claim loyality to Prabhupada's (original) iskcon, or want to strictly follow his teachings are automatically fanatics and sectarian.

[veronica8888]

And you can quote a thousand verses a thousand different ways about the supersoul but that is the problem right there, Srila Prabhupada said not to listen to his godbrothers because they change things due to their misunderstandings and no offense but because they are NEOPHYTES! That is why you are brainwashed into thinking that the supersoul is Srila Prabhupada when Prabhupada means the guru is present in the disciples heart to give instructions, not to keep his heart beating, lungs etc. Only Iskcon has this understanding because only Iskcon has His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada as their very own guru. Prabhupada is not in the Gaudiya Matha. The Matha transformed into Iskcon and the rest of you who are not in it lost out. And I am the guest who started this thing.

[theist]

unfortunate