Iskcon's newest guru, a woman

[veronica8888]

not really a woman, but a spirit soul inside, having accepted a woman's body. It shows the position of Srila Prahbupada that he alone could do such a thing. I don't know who it is yet, but I vow to become her disciple and never to commit any offenses to her lotus feet. And I beg her to speak to Tamal Krishna Maharaja in the spiritual world and beg from him my forgiveness. Srila Prabhupada said Tamal Krishna Maharaja was a cowherd boy. I forgot! I am an offender! I committed the worst kind of offense Vaishnava aparadha! And to all the devotees even if you are in the Gaudiya Matha please forgive my offenses also. And especially the ones in Iskcon who I have offended the most.

[livingentity]

talk about it? Is there something that is disturbing you?

 

[gHari]

I am very happy you did not leave. I had not noticed that you misunderstood my purpose in presenting quotes from Srila Prabhupada's purports in the now locked thread.

 

I was not in disagreement with you, nor actually was the devotee who spoke of Srila Prabhupada as Paramatma. My first purpose was to show that the guru is considered to be the external manifestation of caitya-guru (Paramatma). We are too dull, as Prabhupada says, to hear from Paramatma, so the message He would have us hear is spoken by a pure devotee serving Krsna in a guru function.

 

My second set of quotes was only to clarify that Prabhupada considered Paramatma to be caitya-guru, since you had mentioned that you had thought there was some difference between the two. There is only one entity riding beside our soul. He is our constant companion, witness, guru, well-wisher, and He can be called Supersoul or caitya-guru or Paramatma or Atmantaryami or Ksirodakashayi Vishnu.

 

I hope that clears things up. I actually liked your message about what we here call The Second Coming of ISKCON. We'll all be there. We will JUST STOP, and JUST CHANT. It's quite easy. Gaura will give the word, and the party will begin. And you will be there with us.

 

In closing, a little Prabhupada to remind us of our humble position as dull specks of dust at Guru's lotus feet:<blockquote>So KRSNa, when instructs from within the heart, He is called caitya-guru. And that caitya-guru is expanded by the process, personal presentation of spiritual master. So both ways He is helping us. KRSNa is so kind. Guru-kRSNa-kRpA. KRSNa is helping from within, but sometimes we are so dull, naturally, that we cannot understand. Therefore He sends His representative to instruct externally. So He is helping internally and externally. There is no difference between the internal and external instructor. We should take advantage of this instruction. That is called vyavasAyAtmikA buddhiH, fixed-up resolution. Fixed-up resolution. If we become fixed up in this resolution, that "Whatever we have heard from my guru, the representative of KRSNa, I must execute. I do not care for my personal convenience or inconvenience. This is my life and soul," then your life is perfect. Then your life is... If I make some amendment, addition, alteration, in the name of KRSNa, guru, then it is spoiled. No. We should receive the instruction as it is, especially... [Mayapura 1974]</blockquote>

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

I don't know who it is yet, but I vow to become her disciple and never to commit any offenses to her lotus feet.

 

 

If you mean disciple in the general sense of taking instruction, then certainly it is a good thing to receive instructions from all devotees. But if you mean you want to receive initiation (diksha) from the person, then I would suggest you first find out who the person is and listen to them to see whether you are actually inspired by the person. It would be a mistake to take initiation from an unknown person simply because they are in a female body. That is just more body consciousness, which Krishna consciousness is meant to remove.

 

 

Srila Prabhupada said Tamal Krishna Maharaja was a cowherd boy.

 

 

I personally believe Tamal Krishna Maharaja is in the spiritual world, but I would not put much solid faith in stories that say Prabhupada said XYZ is ABC in the spiritual world. In ISKCON there are similar rumors about dozens of people, but none of the stories can be confirmed in recordings or writings. Prabhupada said don't believe what "Prabhupada said" unless you see it in writing or hear it in one of his recordings.

 

The problem with such rumors and stories is that it replaces the disciple's diligent study and observation of the guru with blind allegience based on unverifiable qualifications. Factually no aspiring disciple can verify whether or not someone is XYZ in the spiritual world, but he can study the teachings and character of the guru to see if they conform to Srila Prabhupada's standard. Thus it is detrimental to stress these rumors as they discourage disciples from studying the verifiable qualifications of the guru.

[Guest guest]

well veronica, first you advocate Prabhupada as the only guru, then you decide you want to take initiation from the first woman guru based on what? The fact she is a woman? This is bodily concept. Whereas to accept Prabhupada would not be. It appears one minute you are committed to Prabhupada, then suddenly you are willing to accept a voted in woman as your guru. What makes you think she's any different from Tamala anyway? If he were here, my bet is they would be on the same page. You might want to rethink your ideas here. Have you even researched the qualities of a guru before deciding on which one you want? slow down and you might do ok.

[Guest guest]

 

What makes you think she's any different from Tamala anyway? If he were here, my bet is they would be on the same page.

 

 

Meaning that ------ I dont find him to have been in line with what Prabhupada described for guru, but am also not criticizing.

[gHari]

Through experience we've learned that these unknown characters with axes to grind are only an impediment to our best interest. It is simply aparadha, pessimism and hidden aparadha (like here where it criticizes then says it doesn't mean to criticize). Such guests are simply swimming downstream with the current, away from Krsna. Don't get pulled under. That's the hell of the internet.

 

 

[veronica8888]

The guest must be in some high rasa to ignore Srila Prabhupada's decision to grant guruship to Tamal Krishna Goswami. I saw his face and he looked pure to me.

I will blindly accept this guru whoever she may be. She is serving Srila Prabhupada to the highest degree. I take the dust from her lotus feet and smear it all over my body. I will serve her faithfully until i return back to the spiritual world where we all came from.

[veronica8888]

What are you a psychiatrist?

[Guest guest]

"I will serve her faithfully until i return back to the spiritual world where we all came from. "

 

krsna has made for you a special spiritual world with only iskcon devotees and masters

[gHari]

Living Entity is an experienced devotee. She is very dedicated to Srila Prabhupada, and aware of the sometimes trying situations female-bodied devotees have had to endure in ISKCON.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

The guest must be in some high rasa to ignore Srila Prabhupada's decision to grant guruship to Tamal Krishna Goswami.

 

 

 

To assume anyone has an axe to grind who has a different understanding, or to assume the offense of some "high rasa" becaues as a new devotee you STILL don't know the philosophy, both are on the road to offenses. Yes, I am ritvik. Guess that means in your book that I'm going to hell. Prove to me otherwise and I will surrender. Name calling is easy. Prove to me ritvik is wrong and dont leave out the July 9th letter or the one from May letter, or his Will, or other documents you folks like to minimize, while you show only scriptural quotes but ignore or refute his personal instructions right there in black and white. Then complain we dont sign because of an axe to grind. We dont sign due to constant name calling, harassment, belittlement, and disrespect for our religious beliefs.

 

{quote] I saw his face and he looked pure to me.{/quote]

 

Therefore you are picking a guru based on "looks." Bhaktipada also looked pure to his followers.

 

 

I will blindly accept this guru whoever she may be.

 

 

 

To blindly accept any guru is maya. Show me where Prabupada said this is a blind process or we should blindly accept a guru. No. He clearly instructed we recognize the qualificaitons of a guru. Its christians who do blind following. Ours is a philosophy based on knowledge. Get a shastric list of the qualifications of a guru and learn them. If you find a qualified guru, go for it. If you dont and try to fool yourself, .......... a society of the cheaters and the cheated is what we then turn into.

 

 

She is serving Srila Prabhupada to the highest degree.

 

 

 

She got a divorce.

 

Lots of devotees are serving Srila Prabhupada to the highest degree. That doesn't qualify them as guru. Strict following is NOT qualification for guru.

 

 

I take the dust from her lotus feet and smear it all over my body.[/qote]

 

That's fine. Hope you dont mind going *wherever* she may be going. The guru can only take you as far as they are going. What is each gurus destination? Voted in gurus especially? Prabhupada clearly spoke against voted in gurus

 

 

 

Thats ok. Hope your not in a hurry. No guarantee where she will bring you. maybe back to Krishna, maybe not. With Prabhupada as your guru, there is guarantee. Give up sentimental attachments to woman and take shelter of the pure devotee.

 

Goodbye. I'm gone from this forum who hates ritviks and condemns them all to the eternal hell fire. Hate is not Krishna conscious.

[stonehearted]

Our oppressed friend asserts that Urmila dasi is divorced. In fact, she is legally separated from her husband, who has characterized the nature of the separation and Urmila's qualifications in wildly divergent ways. It occurs to me that legal separation may be a way to sort out several issues, including dealing with material assets, when a couple married for along time decides that vanaprastha life means separation (or leads to sannyasa). Although I'm known not to be a fan of the GBC's process of guru appointment (or whatever the heck they call it this year), I think that accusations that Urmila's realtionship with her husband are deliberate distractions from other things.

[Guest guest]

"Goodbye. I'm gone from this forum who hates ritviks and condemns them all to the eternal hell fire. Hate is not Krishna conscious."

 

I doubt very much that anyone here is going to hell. Sometimes frustrations arise that seem to get taken out on each other. It continues to sadden me, but is a good reminder of how far we've yet to go. Devotional service remains a one-way street. Momentum may appear lost at times, however there's no going back. Sri Guru and Gauranga simply won't allow it.

 

Whatever it takes will be given, over and over again if necessary. What is right for one at any given time may not seem right to another. This is a deeply personal path, leading inevitably to the most intimate personal relationship with the Absolute Truth. Everything takes time, and we ultimately are not in control. Thank God!

[Guest guest]

Prove to me otherwise and I will surrender.

 

the prove is to be given when one says something very strange.. strange like to say that the departed guru in a vaishnava sampradaya goes on giving diksa interrupting parampara

[Guest guest]

Why?, why dear friends so much violence in your ways to talk, in your words, in your ofences one to others, is all that your Krishna Councioussnes?, that is the way that you try to present to us?, I go in the forum and can not found the devotion, the love, the peace. Really sad.

[veronica8888]

I did not know that Mother Urmila devi dasi would be the new guru. Now that I know, I roll in the dust of her lotus feet. I sip the water from washing her feet. I would relish the remnants of her prasadam with great delight. She is a gopi as all our sampradaya and my only desire is to sit at her feet and listen to her talk about Krishna. Her Divine Graciousness Srimati Urmila Devi Dasi Vanaprasthini ki jai!

[veronica8888]

I thought you were being facetious? I had some previous bad experiences with the Gaudiya Matha.

[veronica8888]

How wonderful! A planet with all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples. Thank you Krishna!

[veronica8888]

Because I tried to say it wasn't

[Guest guest]

yes but no bhaktisiddhanta, no bhaktivinoda, no pancha tattva, no six goswamis... no krishna, no radha, no arjuna... no prabhupada

 

they're from gaudya (vaishnava sampradaya) math

 

iskcon is after prabhupada

[livingentity]

you are talking about here?

 

re: Are you going to tell me its ok to offend the devotees because I tried to say it wasn't

 

 

Why would I tell you something like that? And what would make you think I would tell you something like that?

 

Somebody has been very mean to you - I suspect - and i am sorry to hear that. But understand that not everybody is going to be that way with you.

 

There are some very nice people on this forum with many years of KC experience.

 

Give them a chance....

[Jagadananda]

I think Veronica needs to be shown real, God centered love and compassion. Something or someone has disturbed her at some point. I just hope we can be a vehicle for healing and bringing her into a deeper relationship with the Lord.

[livingentity]

Yes I agree with you. I am very sorry when I hear that someone has been abused and mistreated in some way by "devotees". Been there myself and I know how painful it can be.

 

Com'n Veronica, we aren't the ones that were mean to you.

 

Spend some time with us and you will see for the most part we are a caring group of people and happy to share with others. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Just ignore the few exceptions that pop in here to only disturb...

[veronica8888]

Here is the problem. Srila Prabhupada is an uttama adhikari therefore unless you are I cannot take any advice unless it is in accordance with his desires. If it is yes i will take your advice.