i chant more than YOU!

[Govindaram]

 

Hare Krsna

 

Say for example somebody chants more rounds than you, or that somebody chants 100 names of Lord Gauranaga and you do not, who is the better person?

 

Following Prabhupada programme is essential for us, so manufactoring rules/regulations at this stage is not good,

 

what I mean by that is somebody saying 'I am better than you because ..' Can't get my head around this, its been bothereing me for a while, not getting any staight answers.

 

could somebody offer me advice please. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[vanamali]

I think people who have the chops to chant so much are there for our inspiration. I don't know if they are better people or not. But I do think that if they are chanting more, they will *become* better people (improve themselves). Don't worry about trying to chant more than someone else, especially if it makes you feel bad or that you are chanting less. That will only fan the ego. Instead take it as a challenge to increase your chanting a little at a time. It's good to see people doing more than us, to help us become even more inspired.

 

Personally I like being around those who are even more drunk on the Divine Name than me, because their fervor of devotion tends to be very contagious. Like hearing bhajans of Meera or Annamayya awakens and inflames devotion within.

Same thing with other devotees.

 

On the other hand, if someone is actually bragging about how many rounds they chant, maybe they are a little confused about the purpose of chanting, no?

 

This is my feeling. Please forgive me if I am wrong or have committed any offense. I bow to the lotus feet of <font color="red"> </font color> Sri Krishna.

 

~Vanamali

[Guest guest]

we at initiations say that we will chant AT LEAST 16 rounds a day, so who chants more, if he does not offend devotees with manifestations of pride, he's not at all deviant

 

if he's proud he's making vaishnava aparadha

if he's humble he will be soon back to godhead

[Guest guest]

... but ultimately if he chants he will go back to godhead

[theist]

If somebody asks how many rounds you chant, and you suspect they are just doing some ego camparisons tell them "Not enough" and let it stand at that.

 

Some things may be best kept to your, guru, Krishna and close friends.

 

 

Hare Krishna

[stonehearted]

so you can decline to play that game at all.

[theist]

Plus its a good way for some of us to hide. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Govindaram]

 

"It's not a contest, so you can decline to play that game at all."

 

Yes, I suppose so, inspiring to be a devotee of a devotee, servant to the Holy name, no matter how much we serve Krsna, it is not enough, so we could chant 24/7 its still not enough, ocean keeps on expanding.. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[stonehearted]

I think I meant to echo your advice.

 

Did I miss something about the hiding part?

[theist]

I was just joking around. Since I haven't been chanting myself in a while if someone asks me how many rounds I chant, by declining to be specific I can hide that I haven't been doing any.

[gHari]

It all comes down to this, every nanosecond.

 

Why do we chant? Why do we accumulate knowledge? Why do we post on the net? Why do we watch the tube, the movies, the world go by?

 

It is all about purifying the "WHY".

 

Not all little false ego WHYs are bad, just as not everyone was fighting against the Pandavas. The false ego who will chant just to compete with and quiet the japa contestant can serve a purpose for Arjuna before it is eventually slain by that very sweet japa itself. They are good but they are flawed; only the five pure Pandavas will survive the battle.

 

Somehow or other turn to Krsna. If now it is the internet that gets you going, then use it. If it is reading that gets you going, then use it. If it is envy, then use it. If it is competition, then use it. Approaching Krsna is the secret; He will eventually purify the motive.

 

 

 

[theist]

I like gHari's point about motive. In America there is this saying going around, started with some stupid ad for something. It is "Image is everything". Ok that really states the material perspective quite succinctly.

 

For the aspirant "Motive in following the correct instruction is everything."

 

We can fool each other but not Krishna.

[theist]

Continuing gHari's theme I find that I have yet to chant even one pure name of Krishna. What to speak of a whole round.

 

I try to tell myself that I am chanting with the hopes of chanting that on suddha-nama. But if that was true then I should have already chanted one pure name. Would Krishna not fulfill that desire if it was real.

 

So my mind has a glimpse of what should be done but no desire to do it. So then what is my real motive for chanting. Basically I have some vague concept that it will decrease my suffering in various ways and a tiny glimmer that in some distant future the pure name will be given to me along with that life beyond birth and death, and beyond mukti as well. Whatever that means.

 

Until then I remain trapped in mindstuff.

[stonehearted]

theist: I was just joking around. Since I haven't been chanting myself in a while if someone asks me how many rounds I chant, by declining to be specific I can hide that I haven't been doing any.

 

Sorry for the dullness that made you state that again so plainly. I should have just let it go. I apologize.

 

But you're right, of course. It could easily serve as a way to obscure our own shortcomings in the chanting department. However, it may be a good way to convey to them that it's really none of their business. That's the kind of question that's more appropriate in a more confidential relationship. While we're discussing motive, it's important to consider their motive in asking you. If it's a close friend who you know cares about you, that's one thing. If it's someone who wants to compare, forget him.

 

I apologize again.

[theist]

I never saw anything you need to apologize for. Yes I have always used the phrase "not enough" as apolite or at least oblique way of saying "it's none of your business". It really is between ourselves Guru and Krishna and a small circle amongst devotees.

 

Usually someone is trying to qualify someone else so they will know what script to turn to as to how to deal with them. We don't yet see the soul so something else leaks in to fill the gap.

 

Oh well, in time yeah?

[Govindaram]

 

I tried to pin-point the moment I thought 'I don't want to chant anymore', it was my desire said in Ignorance, and because I caused offence to devotees.

 

I have felt over the years, thinking in my mind {only sometimes} that I don't want to chant {Maya}, so this maybe builds up, makes us cause offence, we get bad association, then...?

 

Either you can stop or take it slow, I don't consider myself a devotee anymore, until I am following again, but I am a 'limbo' devotee lol, just waiting to take up the practice again. My Mind is such a Raskal it just doesn't listen to reason, it wants to do its own think, I wish it could manifiest as a person, so I could beat the hell out of it!

 

[stonehearted]

theist: I never saw anything you need to apologize for. Yes I have always used the phrase "not enough" as apolite or at least oblique way of saying "it's none of your business". It really is between ourselves Guru and Krishna and a small circle amongst devotees.

 

Babhru: I agree wholeheartedly.

 

t: We don't yet see the soul so something else leaks in to fill the gap. Oh well, in time yeah?

 

B: God, I hope so. Pray for me.

[ancient_paztriot]

"If it is envy, then use it. If it is competition, then use it. Approaching Krsna is the secret; He will eventually purify the motive."

 

My dandavats! (There are no wiser words!)

[theist]

I agree with paz.

[stonehearted]

Well said. Whatever you start with, using it as to motivate your chanting will purify your motives; if your rival is lucky, your association will purify his or her motives. Whatever gets you chanting, seize it.

[Guest guest]

Like the saying goes, "just do it!" After awhile, chanting becomes completely addictive. The purification in chanting is through the Holy Names, not by our own efforts anyways. No point in beating ourselves for innumerable shortcomings, better to just "keep on keeping on."

 

I thought that hiding by saying "not enough" was away to avoid some job in the temple, because of still needing to chant rounds (hah)...truth is whenever I'm there, I often have to keep one hand in my japa bag, just to survive. Somehow chanting, even silently, helps me cope and avoid getting caught up with fault-finding.

 

Mostly my answer to how many rounds is, "I don't count anymore", but now usually just the right look will suffice. My advice would be not to get too involved on a social level while in the association of devotees. Remember that chanting is a plea for service, and concentrate on that by eagerly grasping every opportunity offered.

 

In the end, it's between each of us individually and Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. They are the only ones we need try to impress and since we are better known to Them than to ourselves, why worry? Let others think what they will of me, I'm in it for the long run. Chanting will continue eternally, even in Goloka, so best to accept and develop a taste for the Holy Names asap.

 

Many great saints have expressed their gratitude for being born in this Age of Kali, simply because all that's required is to wholeheartedly embrace the Holy Names, which have been especially empowered by Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. I very much agree with gHari prabhu, whatever it takes to get the child to eat. Why fight it, eh?

[ancient_paztriot]

… for all of us?

 

Desperado

 

Desperado…

Why don't you come to your senses?

You been out ridin' fences for so long now,

Oh, you're a hard one

I know that you got your reasons,

These things that are pleasin' you can hurt you somehow

 

Don't you draw the queen of diamonds, boy

She'll beat you if she's able

You know the queen of hearts is always your best bet

Now it seems to me some fine things have been laid upon your table,

But you only want the ones you can't get

 

Desperado

Oh, you ain't gettin' no younger

Your pain and your hunger, they're drivin' you home,

And freedom, oh freedom

well, that's just some people talkin'

Your prison is walkin' through this world all alone

 

Don't your feet get cold in the wintertime?

The sky won't snow and the sun won't shine,

It's hard to tell the nighttime from the day

You're losin' all your highs and lows,

Ain't it funny how the feelin' goes away?

 

Desperado

Why don't you come to your senses?

Come down from your fences, open the gate

It may be rainin', but there's a rainbow above you

You better let somebody love you,

 

Let somebody love you

You better let somebody love you,

Let somebody love you

You better let somebody love you,

Before it's too late - Eagles

[ancient_paztriot]

Coming Back to Life

 

Where were you when I was burned and broken

While the days slipped by from my window watching

And where were you… when I was hurt and I was helpless

Because the things you say and the things you do surround me.

While you were hanging yourself on someone else's words…

Dying to believe in what you heard

I was staring straight into the shining sun…

 

Lost in thought – and lost in time…

While the seeds of life – and the seeds of change – were planted

 

Outside the rain, fell dark and slow

While I pondered on – this dangerous but irrestiable past-time

I took a heavenly ride through one silence:

I knew the moment had arrived…

For killing the past – and COMING BACK TO LIFE!

 

I took a heavenly ride through our silence

I knew the waiting had begun

And headed straight... into the shining sun - Pink Floyd

[ancient_paztriot]

I'LL DO ANYTHING

 

You hold a life there in your hands

You probably don't know

Somehow your dreams became my plans

Somewhere long ago

Think about the things we've done and where we've been

Your touch made me a king

I don't want to live without your love again

I'll do anything

 

To make you see what I'm imagining

To know the pleasure your smile can bring

To keep the light from vanishing

I'll do anything

 

I fly this airplane upside down

I walk out on the wing

To see you watching from the ground

I'll do anything

When I see the light upon your upturned face

I can hear the angels sing

Don't ever let another take my place

I'll do anything

 

To make you see what I'm imagining

To know the pleasure your smile can bring

To keep the light from vanishing

I'll do anything

 

I make this world a place for you and me

I make your happiness my responsibility

To make this world the world you want to see

I'll do anything

 

When I see the light upon your upturned face

I can hear the angels sing

To see that no one ever takes my place

I'll do anything

 

To make you see what I'm imagining

To know the pleasure your smile can bring

To keep the light from vanishing

I'll do anything – Jackson Browne

[ancient_paztriot]

Begins with Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.39 – The History of the Life of Ajamila

 

As the soul is being dragged out by the Yamaduttas, the Visnuduttas (from the spiritual world) appeared to liberate Ajamila… They inquire about the duties of the attendants of death they are now checking…

 

(See the language; how they are desribing circumstance and duty even as they act… )

............................

 

What is the process of punishing others? Who are the actual candidates for punishment? Are all karmis engaged in fruitive activities punishable, or only some of them?

 

The Yamadutas replied: That which is prescribed in the Vedas constitutes dharma, the religious principles, and the opposite of that is irreligion. The Vedas are directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana, and are self-born. This we have heard from Yamaraja.

 

The supreme cause of all causes, Narayana, is situated in His own abode in the spiritual world, but nevertheless He controls the entire cosmic manifestation according to the three modes of material nature—sattva-guna, rajo-guna and tamo-guna. In this way all living entities are awarded different qualities, different names [such as brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya], different duties according to the varnasrama institution, and different forms. Thus Narayana is the cause of the entire cosmic manifestation.

 

The sun, fire, sky, air, demigods, moon, evening, day, night, directions, water, land and Supersoul Himself all witness the activities of the living entity.

 

The candidates for punishment are those who are confirmed by these many witnesses to have deviated from their prescribed regulative duties. Everyone engaged in fruitive activities is suitable to be subjected to punishment according to his sinful acts.

 

O inhabitants of Vaikuntha, you are sinless, but those within this material world are all karmis, whether acting piously or impiously. Both kinds of action are possible for them because they are contaminated by the three modes of nature and must act accordingly. One who has accepted a material body cannot be inactive, and sinful action is inevitable for one acting under the modes of material nature. Therefore all the living entities within this material world are punishable.

 

In proportion to the extent of one’s religious or irreligious actions in this life, one must enjoy or suffer the corresponding reactions of his karma in the next.

 

Those who act in the mode of goodness are promoted to higher planetary systems to become demigods, those who act in an ordinary way and do not commit excessively sinful acts remain within this middle planetary system, and those who perform abominable sinful actions must go down to hellish life.

 

O best of the demigods, we can see three different varieties of life, which are due to the contamination of the three modes of nature. The living entities are thus known as peaceful, restless and foolish; as happy, unhappy or in-between; or as religious, irreligious and semireligious. We can deduce that in the next life these three kinds of material nature will similarly act.

 

Just as springtime in the present indicates the nature of springtimes in the past and future, so this life of happiness, distress or a mixture of both gives evidence concerning the religious and irreligious activities of one’s past and future lives.

 

The omnipotent Yamaraja is as good as Lord Brahma, for while situated in his own abode or in everyone’s heart like the Paramatma, he mentally observes the past activities of a living entity and thus understands how the living entity will act in future lives.

 

As a sleeping person acts according to the body manifested in his dreams and accepts it to be himself, so one identifies with his present body, which he acquired because of his past religious or irreligious actions, and is unable to know his past or future lives.

 

Above the five senses of perception, the five working senses and the five objects of the senses is the mind, which is the sixteenth element. Above the mind is the seventeenth element, the soul, the living being himself, who, in cooperation with the other sixteen, enjoys the material world alone. The living being enjoys three kinds of situations, namely happy, distressful and mixed.

 

The subtle body is endowed with sixteen parts—the five knowledge-acquiring senses, the five working senses, the five objects of sense gratification, and the mind. This subtle body is an effect of the three modes of material nature. It is composed of insurmountably strong desires, and therefore it causes the living entity to transmigrate from one body to another in human life, animal life and life as a demigod. When the living entity gets the body of a demigod, he is certainly very jubilant, when he gets a human body he is always in lamentation, and when he gets the body of an animal, he is always afraid. In all conditions, however, he is actually miserable. His miserable condition is called samsrti, or transmigration in material life.

 

The foolish embodied living entity, inept at controlling his senses and mind, is forced to act according to the influence of the modes of material nature, against his desires. He is like a silkworm that uses its own saliva to create a cocoon and then becomes trapped in it, with no possibility of getting out. The living entity traps himself in a network of his own fruitive activities and then can find no way to release himself. Thus he is always bewildered, and repeatedly he dies.

 

Not a single living entity can remain unengaged even for a moment. One must act by his natural tendency according to the three modes of material nature because this natural tendency forcibly makes him work in a particular way.

 

The fruitive activities a living being performs, whether pious or impious, are the unseen cause for the fulfillment of his desires. This unseen cause is the root for the living entity’s different bodies. Because of his intense desire, the living entity takes birth in a particular family and receives a body which is either like that of his mother or like that of his father. The gross and subtle bodies are created according to his desire.

 

Since the living entity is associated with material nature, he is in an awkward position, but if in the human form of life he is taught how to associate with the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His devotee, this position can be overcome.

............................

 

And Later the Visnudutta's reply…

 

Sukadeva Gosvami said: My dear King, the servants of Lord Visnu are always very expert in logic and arguments. After hearing the statements of the Yamadutas, they replied as follows.

 

The Visnudutas said: Alas, how painful it is that irreligion is being introduced into an assembly where religion should be maintained. Indeed, those in charge of maintaining the religious principles are needlessly punishing a sinless, unpunishable person.

 

A king or governmental official should be so well qualified that he acts as a father, maintainer and protector of the citizens because of affection and love. He should give the citizens good advice and instructions according to the standard scriptures and should be equal to everyone. Yamaraja does this, for he is the supreme master of justice, and so do those who follow in his footsteps. However, if such persons become polluted and exhibit partiality by punishing an innocent, blameless person, where will the citizens go to take shelter for their maintenance and security?

 

The mass of people follow the example of a leader in society and imitate his behavior. They accept as evidence whatever the leader accepts.

 

People in general are not very advanced in knowledge by which to discriminate between religion and irreligion. The innocent, unenlightened citizen is like an ignorant animal sleeping in peace with its head on the lap of its master, faithfully believing in the master’s protection. If a leader is actually kindhearted and deserves to be the object of a living entity’s faith, how can he punish or kill a foolish person who has fully surrendered in good faith and friendship?

 

Ajamila has already atoned for all his sinful actions. Indeed, he has atoned not only for sins performed in one life but for those performed in millions of lives, for in a helpless condition he chanted the holy name of Narayana. Even though he did not chant purely, he chanted without offense, and therefore he is now pure and eligible for liberation.

 

The Visnudutas continued: Even previously, while eating and at other times, this Ajamila would call his son, saying, “My dear Narayana, please come here.” Although calling the name of his son, he nevertheless uttered the four syllables na-ra-ya-na. Simply by chanting the name of Narayana in this way, he sufficiently atoned for the sinful reactions of millions of lives.

 

The chanting of the holy name of Lord Visnu is the best process of atonement for a thief of gold or other valuables, for a drunkard, for one who betrays a friend or relative, for one who kills a brahmana, or for one who indulges in sex with the wife of his guru or another superior. It is also the best method of atonement for one who murders women, the king or his father, for one who slaughters cows, and for all other sinful men. Simply by chanting the holy name of Lord Visnu, such sinful persons may attract the attention of the Supreme Lord, who therefore considers, “Because this man has chanted My holy name, My duty is to give him protection.”

 

By following the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies or undergoing atonement, sinful men do not become as purified as by chanting once the holy name of Lord Hari. Although ritualistic atonement may free one from sinful reactions, it does not awaken devotional service, unlike the chanting of the Lord’s names, which reminds one of the Lord’s fame, qualities, attributes, pastimes and paraphernalia.

 

The Visnudutas, who are superior authorities, gave orders to the Yamadutas, who did not know that Ajamila was no longer subject to tribulation in hellish life for his past sins. Although he had chanted the holy name Narayana to indicate his son, the holy name is so transcendentally powerful that he was automatically freed because he had chanted the holy name while dying (ante narayana-smrtih). As Krsna confirms in Bhagavad-gita (7.28):

 

yesam tv anta-gatam papam

jananam punya-karmanam

te dvandva-moha-nirmukta

bhajante mam drdha-vratah

 

“Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination.” Unless one is freed from all sinful reactions, one cannot be promoted to the platform of devotional service. Elsewhere in Bhagavad-gita (8.5) it is stated:

 

anta-kale ca mam eva

smaran muktva kalevaram

yah prayati sa mad-bhavam

yati nasty atra samsayah

 

If one remembers Krsna, Narayana, at the time of death, one is certainly eligible to return immediately home, back to Godhead.

 

One who chants the holy name of the Lord is immediately freed from the reactions of unlimited sins, even if he chants indirectly [to indicate something else], jokingly, for musical entertainment, or even neglectfully. This is accepted by all the learned scholars of the scriptures.

 

If one chants the holy name of Hari and then dies because of an accidental misfortune, such as falling from the top of a house, slipping and suffering broken bones while traveling on the road, being bitten by a serpent, being afflicted with pain and high fever, or being injured by a weapon, one is immediately absolved from having to enter hellish life, even though he is sinful.

 

Authorities who are learned scholars and sages have carefully ascertained that one should atone for the heaviest sins by undergoing a heavy process of atonement and one should atone for lighter sins by undergoing lighter atonement. Chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, however, vanquishes all the effects of sinful activities, regardless of whether heavy or light.

 

Although one may neutralize the reactions of sinful life through austerity, charity, vows and other such methods, these pious activities cannot uproot the material desires in one’s heart. However, if one serves the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead, he is immediately freed from all such contaminations.

 

As a fire burns dry grass to ashes, so the holy name of the Lord, whether chanted knowingly or unknowingly, burns to ashes, without fail, all the reactions of one’s sinful activities.

 

If a person unaware of the effective potency of a certain medicine takes that medicine or is forced to take it, it will act even without his knowledge because its potency does not depend on the patient’s understanding. Similarly, even though one does not know the value of chanting the holy name of the Lord, if one chants knowingly or unknowingly, the chanting will be very effective.

 

Sri Sukadeva Gosvami continued: My dear King, having thus perfectly judged the principles of devotional service with reasoning and arguments, the order carriers of Lord Visnu released the brahmana Ajamila from the bondage of the Yamadutas and saved him from imminent death.