Christianity: Religion of Blood Sacrifice

[Guest guest]

I read a very interesting analysis of the Christian tradition of communion. The idea was that Christianity had inverted a very old ritual of human sacrifice common in most primitive cultures. In many cultures a human sacrifice was needed to pacify the gods. An individual was selected, and the community projected upon him/her all of the negativity/sins of the community. That is they viewed that individual as very sinful and so needed to be killed. This sacrifice was a communal activity that created a certain solidarity in the society, and allowed a venting and purging against what was perceived as ills in society.

 

In Christianity they inverted it. The human sacrifice was not a person full of sins, but rather the only person who was sinless. But in his sacrifice he took on the sins of the community. Again, it was a sort of communal catharsis. You empty all of your ills upon this one individual.

 

It is said that "Sacrifice creates unity." By recreating this sacrifice every week, the Christian community creates a sort of catharsis and unity. It was done once as a literal blood sacrifice. After that it is recreated through bread and wine (representations of flesh and blood).

 

[Kulapavana]

chanting of the Holy Name is the supreme sacrifice...

 

btw: even Christians themselves are bewildered on the subject of communion and different denominations have very different take on it.

[theist]

Communion strikes me as somewhat like taking prasad.

 

One place I have trouble with the present conception of Christ's sacrifice is in the basic idea of God demanding someother living being being killed and his blood shed to cleanse someone else.

 

Like the Jewish practice of sacrificing an animal to cover over my sin. Or the vedic version of the same up to the sacrifcing of man/animals.

 

Indeed Christ sacrificed and suffered for the world. The guru will take on the past sins of the disciple. He may suffer illness or nightmares. My view is Christ agreed to take that responsibity in advance and for the entire world he is so great.

 

But that doesn't replace the necessity of each individual "picking up their own cross and following" Jesus. At some point we have to learn to crucify our own flesh on behalf of others for fulfilling the will of the Father.

 

Christ carried His cross,

Arjun entered the battlefield,

Theirs is the example of the way the truth and the life.

 

But we still have our own cross to bear and our own battle to fight.

 

Please don't trip on my speculations.

 

 

[ancient_paztriot]

I think the "this wafer is the body of Christ" and "this wine is the blood of Christ" is weird.

 

You're eating your spiritual master? I mean what is the bottom line?

[Guest guest]

<Indeed Christ sacrificed and suffered for the world. The guru will take on the past sins of the disciple. He may suffer illness or nightmares. My view is Christ agreed to take that responsibity in advance and for the entire world he is so great.>

 

All the views you have expressed are not acceptable. The theory of Karma does not say that, one should do the sinful actions and someone else should be paying for the same. No! One has to pay for one's own sins and nobody can partake of it. The last sentence in the above paragraph must be interpreted in a very broader perspective. It is not one Sadguru, who will do this work, but the essence of it, that is, Sadgurutatva will do it. That is from time-to-time Sadgurus will take birth on earth (Our Puranas there were many God-realised sages like Yagnavalkya, Jadabharata and so on) and will uplift the people, who have done some good merits in the past births and who have developed devotion for God.

 

[theist]

 

The theory of Karma does not say that, one should do the sinful actions and someone else should be paying for the same.

 

 

Not quite what I was saying.

[theist]

Sorry, I was unclear. I was meaning to say this.

---------------------------

From Perfect Questions Perfect Answers

 

 

Syämasundara: One time you said that sometimes you feel sickness or pain due to the sinful activities of your devotees. Can sometimes disease be due to that? Caused by that?

 

Srila Prabhupäda: You see, Krsna says:

[bg. 18.66]

“I will deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.” So Krsna is so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make them right. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Krsna, he also takes the responsibility for the sinful activities of his devotees. Therefore to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb them. So sometimes—because he is not Krsna—sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu has forbidden, “Don’t make many sisyas, many disciples.” But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples—for expanding preaching—even if we suffer. That’s a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility for all the sinful activities of his disciples. Therefore to make many disciples is a risky job unless one is able to assimilate all the sins.

[“I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiñëava devotees of the Lord. They are just like desire trees who can fulfill the desires of everyone, and they are full of compassion for the fallen conditioned souls.”] He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That idea is also in the Bible. Jesus Christ took all the sinful reactions of the people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of a spiritual master. Because Krsna is Krsna, He is apapa-viddha—He cannot be attacked by sinful reactions. But a living entity is sometimes subjected to their influence because he is so small. Big fire, small fire. If you put some big thing in a small fire, the fire itself may be extinguished. But in a big fire, whatever you put in is all right. The big fire can consume anything.

 

Bob: Christ’s suffering was of that nature?

 

Srila Prabhupäda: Mm-m?

 

Bob: Was Christ’s suffering—

 

Srila Prabhupäda: That I have already explained. He took the sinful reactions of all the people. Therefore he suffered.

 

Bob: I see.

 

Srila Prabhupäda: He said—that is in the Bible—that he took all the sinful reactions of the people and sacrificed his life. But these Christian people have made it a law for Christ to suffer while they do all nonsense. [bob gives a short laugh.] Such great fools they are! They have let Jesus Christ make a contract for taking all their sinful reactions so they can go on with all nonsense. That is their religion. Christ was so magnanimous that he took all their sins and suffered, but that does not induce them to stop all these sins. They have not come to that sense. They have taken it very easily. “Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we’ll do all nonsense.” Is it not?

 

Bob: It is so.

 

Srila Prabhupäda: They should have been ashamed: “Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us, but we are continuing the sinful activities.” He told everyone, “Thou shalt not kill,” but they are indulging in killing, thinking, “Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us and take all the sinful reactions.” This is going on. We should be very much cautious: “For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer, so I’ll not commit even a pinch of sinful activities.” That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation, all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, his spiritual master has to suffer. A disciple should be sympathetic and consider this. “For my sinful activities, my spiritual master will suffer.” If the spiritual master is attacked by some disease, it is due to the sinful activities of others. “Don’t make many disciples.” But we do it because we are preaching. Never mind—let us suffer—still we shall accept them. Therefore your question was—when I suffer is it due to my past misdeeds? Was it not? That is my misdeed—that I accepted some disciples who are nonsense. That is my misdeed.

 

Bob: This happens on occasions?

 

Srila Prabhupäda: Yes. This is sure to happen because we are accepting so many men. It is the duty of the disciples to be cautious. “My spiritual master has saved me. I should not put him again into suffering.” When the spiritual master is in suffering, Krsna saves him. Krsna thinks, “Oh, he has taken so much responsibility for delivering a fallen person.” So Krsna is there.

[bg. 9.31]

[“O son of Kunti, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes.”] Because the spiritual master takes the risk on account of Krsna.

 

Bob: Your suffering is not the same kind of pain...

 

Srila Prabhupäda: No, it is not due to karma. The pain is there sometimes, so that the disciples may know, “Due to our sinful activities, our spiritual master is suffering.”

 

Bob: You look very well now.

 

Srila Prabhupäda: I am always well... in the sense that even if there is suffering, I know Krsna will protect me. But this suffering is not due to my sinful activities.

[ShegavichaRana]

If Sadguru has to take all the sins of his disciples, he would be too sick to leave his bed! Let me ask you one quesetion, after becoming a disciple, have your all troubles, physical, mental, financial or from any other sphere of life have vanished altogether? Not quite, I suppose, that is you are still paying for your Prarabdha Karma. If all of your Prarabdha Karma is burnt up by making a Sadguru, you should be the most blissful man on earth. I am sure, this is not the case. Yes Sadguru does help you when you are passing through the phase of your bad Karmic reaction period, by way of keeping your mental equilibrium and peace intact and by way of getting some sort of help to you, to see that you overcome the worst period. Did not Arjuna make the Lord his Sadguru and get all the knowledge, but still had to face many troubles, even after the war was over? He was defeated and killed by Babruvahana, his own son from Chitrangada and was resurrected by the Lord Himself? So making a Sadguru does not mean, automatically passing on all the bad Karmic rections to him.

 

[theist]

I'm not a disciple. Nor am I qualified to expand on Prabhupada's words.

 

Believe what you like.

 

Hare Krishna