Why does Krishna play hard to get?

[krsna]

[Guest guest]

Gaudiya Vaishnavism isn't about "getting" Krsna, but assisting Srimati Radharani in Her relationship with Him. Worshipping devotion and acting in service to the devotees everything naturally falls into place, including Krsna.

[theist]

The plight of the Palestinian maiden. Lying in bed expecting her lover. He comes right to her door and when she opens it He has gone. She becomes maddedned and her anxious longing heart has her running bewildered in street looking for Him, not carrying for looks of those around her as she searches for Him.

 

A little taste then nothing. Increases the longing.

 

Even at our pitiful state we tend to take Krishna for granted.

[theist]

From Song of Songs ch. 4

 

Beloved

2 I slept but my heart was awake.

Listen! My lover is knocking:

"Open to me, my sister, my darling,

my dove, my flawless one.

My head is drenched with dew,

my hair with the dampness of the night."

3 I have taken off my robe-

must I put it on again?

I have washed my feet-

must I soil them again?

4 My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening;

my heart began to pound for him.

5 I arose to open for my lover,

and my hands dripped with myrrh,

my fingers with flowing myrrh,

on the handles of the lock.

6 I opened for my lover,

but my lover had left; he was gone.

My heart sank at his departure.

I looked for him but did not find him.

I called him but he did not answer.

7 The watchmen found me

as they made their rounds in the city.

They beat me, they bruised me;

they took away my cloak,

those watchmen of the walls!

8 O daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you-

if you find my lover,

what will you tell him?

Tell him I am faint with love.

 

[theist]

http://vedabase.net/sb/10/31/

 

then here

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/10/32/

[Guest guest]

That's Ok but there is a difference between those who are worshippable and that who is lovable. Is Gaudiya Vaishnavism about making Krishna "fall in place"? Hardly! It is more prabably about making the devotee of Radha fall in place in Radha's coterie. However that is only possible if Radha is the function of one's causeless attention and craving for divine affection.

 

But for those who's heart skip a beat on seeing the sweet blue coloured Lord, nothing is a discouragement. So what if He is hard to get. The Lord may behave as He wishes, we are merely specs of dust to be blown about here and there by His wishes. We do not care to make Krishna "fall in place". That we hunger to make Him the unlinching object of our affection, that is our prerogative; He may take it, but not with our consent! Whether He should shower any attention towards us, that is His own sweet will! What care does such a person have about making things "fall in place". That He allows us to remember Him, is more than enough mercy!

[Guest guest]

"Fall in place" was intended to mean a more complete and deeper realization of Gaudiya Vaisnava philosophy. However, Krsna does indeed have a place so far as devotees are concerned. That's with Radha, subservient to Her desires, whatever they may be at any given time.

 

Of course, what you are saying is completely valid, but this is the essence of reality according to Rupanuga followers of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is bot Radha and Krsna combined, as you well know. How we relate To Them through His Divine Grace depends on each of us as individuals, what to speak of Their desire for us.

 

The most important thing is to always appreciate our eternal position of servitude/subservience to devotees, Sri Radhika being the topmost and the personified source of devotion. She always keeps Her Lover under tight control -- with a little help from Her friends. Exactly how we fit into that scenario will be progressively revealed confidentially, as needed. Sometimes too much knowledge can be a dangerous thing...

[Guest guest]

Does anyone have the Back To Godhead issue September/October 1992? Srila Prabhupada has written an article entitled "Simply Love Krsna". There's a charming picture of Mother Yasoda chasing baby Damodara. Prabhupada speaks of the difference between Queen Kunti's relationship with Krsna and that of Yasodamayi. I can only quote a few passages, one-fingered typist that I am, but maybe someone will want to fill in the gaps and provide a wider context.

 

"Seeing the rope in the hands of mother Yasoda, the Lord bowed His head and began to weep just like a child, and tears rolled down His cheeks, washing off the black ointment smeared about His beautiful eyes. This picture is adored by Kunti Devi because she is conscious of the Lord's supreme position. He is feared often by fear personified, yet He is afraid of His mother, who wanted to punish Him in just an ordinary manner...If mother Yasoda was conscious of the exalted position of the Lord, She would certainly have hesitated to punish the Lord...Kunti, remembering the scene, was bewildered, and She could do nothing but praise the transcendental filial love...

 

"We offer obeisances to Krsna with awe and veneration, but no one comes to Krsna with a rope, saying, "Krsna, you have committed an offense, and now I shall bind you." Yet this is the prerogrative of the most perfect devotee, and Krsna wants to be approached in that way... Who is not afraid of Krsna? No one. But Krsna is afraid of Yasodamayi. This is the super-excellence of Krsna...

 

"These are very exalted spiritual understandings in Krsna consciousness. They are not fictional, imaginary, or concocted. They are facts, and every devotee can have the privilege to understand and indeed take part in Krsna's pastimes if he is actually advanced. We should not think that the privilege given to mother Yasoda is not available to us. Everyone can have a similar prvilege...

 

"Thus the inhabitants of Vrndavana do not care who is God and who is not. They love Krsna, that's all. Those who think of first anaylizing Krsna to determine whether He is God are not first-class devotees. The first-class devotees are those who have spontaneous love for Krsna. How can we analyze Krsna, He is unlimited and therefore it is impossible... Therefore the mentality of Vrndavana is the perfect status of mind for devotees. The inhabitants of Vrndavana have no concern with understanding Krsna. Rather they want to love Krsna unconditionally. It is not that they think, "Krsna is God, and therefore I love Him."

 

"...The more we love Krsna, the more we shall become perfect. It is not necessary to understand Krsna and how He creates. Krsna explains Himself in theBhagavad-gita and we should not try to understand much more. We should not bother very much to know Krsna. That is not possible. We should simply increase our unalloyed love for Krsna. That is the perfection of life. Thank you very much."

[Guest guest]

Love is the highest form of worship and Sri Radha the topmost worshipper. Without His beloved Radhika, nothing is relishable for Krsna. He pines for Her as She does for Him. Devotees' first priority is to reunite the Divine Couple, their bliss always remains Their bliss. Still, it is experienced through Srimati Radharani, never Sri Krsna directly. The pleasure encountered in devotional service is due only to Her association.

 

Our identification must shift from the external to internal potencies, subjectively and objectively. When God [Krsna] desires a more intimate loving relationship with us, we are brought to one of Radha's confidential associates [guru] to imbue the necessary devotion, without which our service would have little or no meaning. She is the super-excellent essence, devotion itself as well as the chief controller of devotional service. Recognizing this we take full shelter of Her in every respect. What is at first motivated by our own priorities, eventually becomes concerned solely by Her's.

 

Ask not what your guru can do for you, but what you can do for your guru.

[Guest guest]

Gaudiya Vaishnavism, as I understand it, is about becoming devotee of Radha, nothing more nothing less. Krishna is worshippable because it is He who brings happiness to Radha. But it is Radha who is the object of love. Affection is to be directed to Radha and then to Krishna only because of Radha. However, this is a very formidable goal, even for perfected devotees. Given a choice, if I find myself alone with Krishna, I wouldn't think twice to attempt to grab Him in my arms. For years, I was *very* unhappy why I have to go away from Krishna, only to come to know that Radha, not Krishna is the goal of Gaudiya Vaishnavas. (Radha-Krishna is not 100% correct. Actually it is more about Radha and Her relationship to Krishna).

 

A lofty goal indeed, however I wouldn't see it as exclusive. Who would Padma think as the best devotee in the universe -- surely Chandravali, who would Kanchana think as the best devotee in the universe -- surely Vishnupriya. Does it matter to them how many shastras you can pull out in favour of Radha? Devotion to their respective deities is unshakable.

 

And then what about those who are loners. Think what would it feel to Meera or Andal if they were told you cannot meet Krishna alone. Would they be able to display manjari bhava? Or would it be proper, in the first place, to ask such a commitment from them?

 

As for me, as long as I was confused, I was under torture. I admit, I am attracted to Krishna. Yes it may be a lower position objectively than being a devotee of Radha! but who cares for the highest. Can anybody proclaim that He is the greatest. You will always find somebody better than you. I just can't help it, my attraction for Krishna will always be more than for anybody else -- becoming a manjari would be the last thing I would like to be.

 

Who cares if Krishna comes around and showers profuse attention or He keeps away eternally thinking I am an arrogant fool. What matters most is what is in the heart! That Krishna is in the heart is a sign of His mercy.

 

As a rasik has aptly put it.....my heart has gone after Krishna.......and I am roaming here and there searching after my heart.........

[krsna]

[Guest guest]

 

Re: But Sri Radha without Sri Krishna...?

 

 

 

Sri Radha cannot exist without Sri Krishna. That is how a devotee of Radha is a devotee of Krishna. But Radha's concerns are the foremost. Krishna has other concerns too -- other gopis, wives etc. But a devotee of Radha has only one concern -- happiness of Radha - i.e. bring Krishna close to Her

[krsna]

*************************************

 

Ask not what your guru can do for you, but what you can do for your guru.

 

********************************************

 

Radha -dasyam bhava

Ask not what Krishna can do for you

Ask what can I do for Krishna

 

Or

Act in a way that Krishna sees you

not in a way that you want to see Krishna

 

Anyway

You're not the one who ultimately 'sees'

Krishna is the real and ultimate 'See-er'

And He will make you or break you as He 'sees' fit

 

Krishna is a very tricky fellow

He doesn't let on very much about what He 'sees'

But give your best so that He 'sees' you

OK ?

[krsna]

[krsna]

 

 

 

**********************************************

 

Of course, what you are saying is completely valid, but this is the essence of reality according to Rupanuga followers of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is both Radha and Krsna combined, as you well know. How we relate To Them through His Divine Grace depends on each of us as individuals, what to speak of Their desire for us.

***************************************************

 

BY SRILA GOUR GOVINDA SWAMI

 

Two Kinds of Maya

 

Two mayas are there. One is Maha-maya, that is to say, the illusionary energy, and the other is Yoga-maya. Yoga means that which gives you an opportunity to go to Krsna. That is Yoga-maya. That which prevents, that is viyoga-maya or Maha-maya. Yoga means union. Viyoga means separation. So there are two mayas.

 

Viyoga-maya or Maha-maya is working in the material world. Her activities are so wonderful. Srila Prabhupada has said: the froggish philosophers, mundane wranglers, what can they understand--what to speak of Yoga-maya, the internal energy of the Lord, her activities are so amazing and wonderful. Even sometimes it becomes very difficult on the part of Krsna to understand them! What to speak of us, even Krsna becomes amazed! So I shall speak that thing.

 

Radharani is hladini sakti. She is Madana-mohana-Mohini, who attracts the senses of Madana-Mohan, Krsna. Krsna always thinks of Radharani. He gets so much pleasure when He unites with Radha, which He cannot get elsewhere. Radharani is leftist, 'vamangi'. Her mood is leftist mood. Candravali is the opposing party, 'daksinangi', rightist. Krsna does not get so much pleasure when He unites with Candravali; at that time He also thinks of Radha. Thus sometimes Krsna goes to Candravali's camp in order to raise the leftist mood of Radharani to the highest point; only for that purpose, nothing else.

 

GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT

 

One day Srimate Radharani decorated Her kunja very nicely. Her asta-sakhis, eight intimate sakhis are there. Lalita, Visakha, Tunga-vidya, etc., they decorated Radharani's kunja with varieties of scented flowers, so many decorations. Krsna will come. They are all waiting. Radharani is waiting, waiting eagerly for Krsna to come. Some wind is blowing, some sound is produced. "Oh, Krsna's coming!" So she is in anxiety at every moment. But Krsna has not come.

 

They sent one dyuti, messenger, "You go and see where is this Krsna!" So the dyuti went out and on the way met Saibya, Candravali's companion sakhi. Saibya told her that Krsna is in Candravali's kunja. So that dyuti came back and reported it to Lalita and Visakha. "Krsna is in Candravali's kunja." So Visakha became very angry. Lalita is a bit softer. Visakha is very hard. They reported this to Radharani. Radharani became sulky. Her leftist mood became heightened and reached the topmost point.

 

What does Srimate Radharani say? "Why should Krsna come to Me? I am most ill-fated! So many gopis are there. Candravali and so many others are there." That is leftist mood. So Radharani says, "I don't want Krsna to come. Don't allow Him to come to My kunja. Entrance is forbidden!" Radha said this out of sulkiness.

 

HARSH WORDS

 

Meanwhile, Krsna came, but at the gate Visakha and Lalita stopped Him. "Not allowed!Get out from here, unreliable person! Our prana-sakhi, our dearmost sakhi has decorated this kunja so nicely, waiting for You. Where were You?! Why are You coming now? Get out from here!" Visakha was very hard.

 

Krsna is now in a very humble mood. He said, "I am a great offender. Please allow me to go and beg excuse at the lotus feet of your prana-sakhi.NO! NO! Get out from here! Now allowed. Admission forbidden."

 

Krsna became disappointed. He could not understand what to do. He went to the banks of the Yamuna. He gave up His garments and rolled on the sand, morose, disappointed, crying.

 

ONLY ONE HOPE

 

Then Paurnamasi devi, Yoga-maya, came. She knows everything and arranges all the activities there, the lilas there. All the activities of Purnamasi, Yoga-maya, are so wonderful that sometimes even Krsna cannot understand.

 

So Purnamasi devi said, "Oh my dear boy, why are You in such a condition? I know everything. All right! All right! I have made an arrangement. I have already sent Vrnda-devi to make arrangements for your union with Radharani."

 

Then Vrnda came. Krsna was very morose, crying, sitting there, rolling in the sand of the Yamuna. Vrnda devi thought, "Oh! I am an instrument in the hand of Purnamasi, Yoga-maya. Krsna is lila-maya, what a very wonderful lila He has manifested. So now Krsna is feeling so much acute pangs of separation from Radharani, and Radharani has developed a sulkiness that Krsna doesn't know how to break. So Paurnamasi is using me as instrument. If I can be an instrument in uniting Radha and Krsna, then I think my life will be successful."

 

She thought to herself like that, and then approaching Krsna, she said, "I am Vrnda. I have come here under the direction of Paurnamasi. I understand that there is no means how you will be able to meet Radharani and console Her, to break Her sulkiness. No other means is there, but one thing is there. If you do what I say, then there is hope."

 

Krsna says, "All right. I must do whatever you say. I cannot understand what to do. I am bewildered, I can't think of what to do."

 

Vrnda said, "All right. You should give up this gopa-vesa (dress of a cowherd boy). You have to give up this thing. Such nice curling hair on Your head--but you have to shave your head. Yes. And give up the flute. Give up your peacock feather. And don't

 

be in these three places bent, tri-bhanga. Give up all these things and this blackish body. No! These are all things You have to give up. You have to shave Your head and You have have to become a sannyasi and give up all these things. I will teach You one song. You have to sing that song. And take one khanjani, a musical instrument. You have to play and sing that song in that sannyasi form, then there is hope."

 

When Vrnda said this, immediately that form appeared there. Krsna became that sannyasi form--shaved head, and His complexion is of molten gold. No peacock feather, no flute, no three places curved form. In yogi, sannyasi form He immediately appeared there. Then Vrnda devi sang a song, that is glorification of Radha,

 

srimate radhe bada abhimani

 

bamya bhave siromani-syama sari ange

 

achadana tava tapta-kancana varana

 

eto dina chile pagalani raye

 

kanu preme prana sampi

 

sarve rupe guneogo gandharvike

 

kanu mana kari curi aji radha prema

 

bhika mage kanu phere dware dware hai

 

"Oh Srimate Radharani, You have developed a sulky mood. You are the crest jewel of the leftisty mood. Your whole body is covered with a bluish sari. The complexion of Your body is that of molten gold. Up to now Radharani was mad for Kanu (Krsna) prema. She was stealing the mind of Krsna. O Gandarvike, You were stealing the mind of Kanu, Krsna, enchanting Him with Your beautiful form and qualities. But today Kanu, Krsna, is moving from door to door begging radha-prema, radha-prema, radha-prema"

 

SANNYASI THAKURA

 

So Krsna sang that song. Then He went to Radharani's kunja. At the gate He found Lalita and Visakha. Krsna started singing this nice song glorifying Radharani. Singing, "Kanu is a beggar today, moving door to door begging radha-prema, radha-prema, radha-prema."

 

Seeing a sannyasi singing this nice song, Lalita and Visakha became very happy.

 

Visakha said, "Sannyasi thakura, this song You are singing is very nice. Who has taught You this song?"

 

Krsna replied, "My Guru is Gandharvika (Radharani)."

 

"Oh, Your Guru is Gandharvika?"

 

"Oh yes, My Guru has taught me this very nice song."

 

"Why have you come here, what do You want?"

 

 

The sannyasi said, "I have nothing, I am a beggar. I've come here to get radha-prema, radha-prema. I am a prema-bhikhari. I am a beggar of prema."

 

"All right, O sannyasi thakura, my prana-sakhi is very, very distressed. She is always crying, in a dying condition. Her fate is very, very bad, ill-fated. Do You know the calculation of fate, sannyasi? Can You calculate seeing the lines on the hand of my sakhi?"

 

"Oh yes, I know it."

 

"You know? Who has taught You?"

 

"Oh my Guru has taught Me all these things--Gandharvika."

 

"Will You come into the kunja to calculate the fate of our prana-sakhi? She's very much distressed."

 

"Oh yes, I can do."

 

Krsna wants that thing (that meeting), so He said, "Yes, I can come."

 

So in the meantime, Lalita has gone to Radharani and said that a sannyasi thakura has come. "He is singing a very nice song. He knows how to calculate Your fate."

 

Then Visakha takes the sannyasi into the kunja. She requested Krsna, "Will You please again sing that nice song You were singing before?"

 

Then Krsna sang that song in glorification of Radha. "Today Kanu is a bhikari, He is a beggar, moving from door to door begging radha-prema." When Radharani heard that last line, She said,

 

aslisya va .-ratam pinastu mam

 

adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va

 

yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato

 

mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah

 

Radharani said the last verse of Siksastskam. "That debauchee, lampatah, whatever He likes He may do. He may do. He may embrace Me or kick Me, or crush Me with His feet or put Me in this condition of acute pangs of separation. Such painful condition, not giving Me darsana. Whatever He likes He may do, that debauchee. But He is the Lord of My heart, no one else."

 

Then Lalita said, "Have patience, O sakhi. One sannyasi thakura has come who will calculate Your fortune. Don't be impatient."

 

So Lalita let the sannyasi into the kunja and arranged a seat on the veranda of Radharani's bedroom. Then Lalita brought Radharani onto the veranda. So Radharani came, putting a veil on her head. Why? Because Radharani only sees Krsna. She never sees any other male. Putting on the veil, Radharani came and sat near the sannyasi thakura. Lalita brought Her left hand to the sannyasi thakura.

 

"Please calculate the fortune of our prana-sakhi."

 

Krsna said, "I am a sannyasi, I cannot touch the hand of your sakhi."

 

"How can You calculate then?"

 

"No, I can calculate seeing the lines on Her forehead. I know how to do it."

 

"But my sakhi does not look at any male, only Krsna. No. She's very strict in that matter. She never looks at any male but Krsna."

 

"Are-baba! I am a dandi-sannyasi. There's no harm. I have no desires. I've given up everything. I am a sannyasi. I am only a beggar. Begging love, I am prema-bhikari. I have given up everything. I have no desires. If your sakhi lifts the veil, there is no harm at all. Then I can calculate. I am a sannyasi, I am not an ordinary male."

 

Lalita devi removed the veil. Then immediately Krsna's form came, tri-bhanga-lalita. That sannyasi form disappeared. Now tri-bhanga, three places curved, peacock feather and flute. Then the eyes of Krsna and the eyes of Radha united. Her sulkiness was gone.

 

Then Visakha said, "So amazing, what is this?

 

pahile dekhilun tomara sannyasi-svarrupa ebe

 

toma dekhi muni syama-gopa-rupa

 

tomara sammukhe dekhi kancana-pancalika

 

tanra gaura-kantye tomara sarva anga Dhaka

 

tahate prakata dekhon sa-vamsi vadana

 

nana bhave cancala tahe kamala-nayana

 

"At first I saw You appear like a sannyasi but now I am seeing You as Syamasundara, the cowherd boy. I saw You appearing like a golden doll, and Your entire body appeared covered by golden luster. I now see You holding a flute to Your mouth, and Your lotus eyes are moving very restlessly due to various ecstasies."

 

(Sri Caitanya.caritamrta, Madhya 8.268-270)

 

KRSNA-LILA, GAURA-LILA

 

That is what Ramananda Raya saw. Ramananda Raya is Visakha sakhi in Mahaprabhu's lila. Mahaprabhu showed that form to Ramananda. So amazing! So this is how Krsna has to cry and has to become a sannyasi begging for radha-prema. Radharani was crying and Visakha stated, "One day You'll have to cry like that!" And so He's crying in the form of Mahaprabhu.

 

sri-radhayah pranaya-mahima kidrso vanayaiva

 

svadyo yenabhuta-madhurima kidrso va madiyah

 

saukhyam casya mad-anubhavatah kidrsam veti lobhat

 

tad-bhavadhyah samajani sai-garbha-sinadau harinduh

 

(Sri Caitanya caritamrta, Adi 1.6)

 

What is Radharani's love? Now Krsna is a beggar of that. Radha-prema-bhikari. He came in a sannyasi form, as a beggar, begging radha-prema. In a completely different form--no three places curved, no curling hair--shaved head. Now His yellow garment is . colour and He's begging for radha-prema. That is radha-bhava. He came in this sannyasi form, otherwise He cannot pay back the debt. Krsna has become indebted. In this way, Krsna paid back the debt. So Radharani's sulkiness vanished. That is why Krsna became sannyasi, He became Mahaprabhu.

 

He (Krsna) came to understand these three things: "What is Radharani's love? What is My beauty that Radharani relishes? What happiness and pleasure does Radharani get relishing My beauty, how can I know?" In order to fulfill these three types of greed and desires Krsna appeared as Mahaprabhu, from the womb of Sacimata, sai garbha-sindau harinduh. In order to understand these three things is why He became a sannyasi. This is so wonderful--Krsna became amazed. This is the activity of Yoga-maya, Paurnamasi. Oh, so wonderful that even Krsna cannot understand, then how can others understand?

[Guest guest]

 

Of course, what you are saying is completely valid, but this is the essence of reality according to Rupanuga followers of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is both Radha and Krsna combined, as you well know. How we relate To Them through His Divine Grace depends on each of us as individuals, what to speak of Their desire for us.

 

 

 

Let me give you an example which you can relate to. Ask any Rupanuga what is his opinion about Dvarkadheesha Krishna. Probably he would flinch in terror - how can you take Krishna out of Vrindavan? And probably this relativization of Dvarka pati is also a cause of conflict with other Vaishnava traditions. But all this is rationalized saying that the other vaishnava traditions cannot understand the mood of the rupanugas.

 

Similarly, if you go to Bengal, you will find a tradition of Caitanya followers, who just don't want to hear anything about the sanyasi Mahaprabhu. Because Caitanya as sannyasi is separated from their supreme object of love and devotion - Srimati Vishnupriya Devi. "How can Gaurachandra leave the company of His most dear? Oh, how terrible -- all of us, let us bring back Gaura to our Thakuraani!!! He Vishnupriya vallabha! leave this sannyasi vesha, this mournful state and take your rightful happy position beside Vishnupriya!!". The Gaudiya vaishnavas do not see eye to eye with these people.

 

Rupanuga objective is certainly glorious, but it is not for everybody and we should respect everybody else's devotion to God.

[Guest guest]

 

Rupanuga objective is certainly glorious, but it is not for everybody and we should respect everybody else's devotion to God.

 

 

I did try to convey that here:

 

"How we relate To Them through His Divine Grace depends on each of us as individuals, what to speak of Their desire for us."

 

I regret that my posts often may seem cold-hearted or even disrespectful of others', but that is certainly not my intention, prabhu. Thank you for your patience and knowlegeable replies. Isn't it wonderful how the absolute can relate personally with each of us, encompassing every aspect of our understanding and experiences [rationalizing as you say]? For instance, my belief is that Krsna appears attractive to us along with the many other emotions we feel towards Him, including apparently negative ones, because that helps us to appreciate by sharing a fraction of Radha's mixed feelings and often confused emotional state, thereby allowing us a closer more empathetic relationship with Her.

 

Theist gave us some beautiful quotations about the gopis and krsna also posted lovely stories. Hearing such attractive subject matter inevitably draws us closer and whets our appetite for a higher reality, creating the necessary longing to enter into genuine raganuga bhakti. However we can take these writings of the great devotees, which they are no doubt repeating from personal face-to-face experiences, in so many different ways according I think to our desires and those of Radha-Krsna.

 

For myself, I get a picture of the devotees and gopis which inspires a deeper worship, but is very bittersweet as I am made more aware of my own fallen state and how impossible it seems that I might actually come to enter into those pastimes. Then I can suddenly feel that all is readily available through His Divine Grace, Sri Guru and Gauranga, to even the most fallen. Certainly I become strongly appreciative of my undeniable need for merciful grace, as well as my absolute lack of qualifications other than a somewhat pitiful desire perhaps. Then of course I am compelled hold onto my beads and chant, which I guess is good.

 

Often though, I just cannot read anymore because it's just too painful. Truth is, we are all on our own inner journies that to a large extent can't be fully shared with anyone else and none is more "glorious" than the other. Worshipping what is revealed to me in the devotees as Sri Radha to some extent encourages me, although it often increases that bittersweet aspect too. So near and yet so far is the gulf between us, you know? My need is far more to share than preach...

[theist]

Does Radha share some of Her feelings of separation also with the jivas, or one could say inspire those inherent sentiments within the depths of the soul to raise up and become dominat?

[Guest guest]

 

Does Radha share some of Her feelings of separation also with the jivas, or one could say inspire those inherent sentiments within the depths of the soul to raise up and become dominat?

 

 

 

That is inexplicable. It will just happen! If you can empathize with Radha, then your job is done. Without that initial desire, you wouldn't even begin to pray to receive a particular kind of mercy.

[Guest guest]

My only intention was to convey that when matters of personal taste are presented as moral injunctions, it is asking for trouble. Apart from the extreme of becoming a public nuisance, how one should approach God should be left upon the individual.

 

If one is really serious about God, he would rather pay exclusive attention to his own relationship with God than "correct" others.

[Guest guest]

 

My only intention was to convey that when matters of personal taste are presented as moral injunctions, it is asking for trouble. Apart from the extreme of becoming a public nuisance, how one should approach God should be left upon the individual.

 

If one is really serious about God, he would rather pay exclusive attention to his own relationship with God than "correct" others.

 

 

So many incorrect assumptions, if not outright judgements, it's difficult to know where to begin. The above post itself is an example of what it advises against, not to "correct" others. Not to worry, the good intent behind it is clear. Somehow or other, we must carry on TOGETHER.

 

As I understand it, the whole purpose behind God being revealed as a person is to enable closer more personal relationships, not only with Radha-Krsna, but each other as well. The two of necessity go hand-in-hand.

 

Love of God is actually a misnomer, which is why the vrajabasi's are not aware of Radha-Krsna's divinity, otherwise such intimacy would be impossible. Jesus reduced the commandments into only two, not through eliminating them, but by extracting the essence. BOTH remain essential.

 

Radha and Krsna are certainly one, however They are at the same time two for the purpose of sharing pastimes that we are all invited to participate in. Of course, by definition there is nothing and no one outside of the Supreme Absolute; whether or not we as individuals fully realise ourselves in relation to the Supreme Personality of Godhead though depends on His Divine Grace and causeless mercy, as well as our hearts' desires.

 

How we interact with each other and devotees has much to do with inner awakenings demanding external expression in ALL our relationships simultaneously. We can inspire or discourage in so many ways, consciously or otherwise.

 

Raganuga cannot be confined within vaidhi boundaries. Suppressed spontaneity becomes stifling and fragile child-like trusting faith easily squashed. Perhaps you have read what Srila Sridhar Maharaj wrote about our being faith-builders, not destroyers.

 

We can only work with what we have ourselves realized, within the context of our own reality. What you see is what you get, to a large extent. If I see my Lord/Love in another, naturally my connection lies there, even though not usually reciprocated immediately. We bring out the best in each other by actually SEEING Her qualities.

 

For me a major turning point was understanding our relationships are with Radha and, only through Her, one and other. Trying to connect directly with Krsna and recognize Him in each other simply will not work. Call it what you will, I see that realization as the master key that can answer all questions, when properly applied.

 

My hope is that some will appreciate this and at least try to respond accordingly. In the end, it always comes down to the footsoldiers, not the generals. All we have is right here and now simultaneously present in ourselves and each other. We are after all godbrothers and godsisters, are we not prabhus?

 

[Guest guest]

"Does Radha share some of Her feelings of separation also with the jivas, or one could say inspire those inherent sentiments within the depths of the soul to raise up and become dominat?"

 

That is inexplicable. It will just happen! If you can empathize with Radha, then your job is done. Without that initial desire, you wouldn't even begin to pray to receive a particular kind of mercy.

 

EXACTLY! Perfect, prabhu. The means and the end. Thank you!

 

 

[theist]

 

That is inexplicable. It will just happen! If you can empathize with Radha, then your job is done. Without that initial desire, you wouldn't even begin to pray to receive a particular kind of mercy.

 

 

Why inexplicable? Probably wasn't very clear in my question. Can the jiva also experience separation from Krsna? It is accepted that that separation would have it's orgination in Radha.

 

What will"just happen." Please explain a little more."

[Guest guest]

I believe "inexplicable" means there is no explananation, for Srimati Radharani must be experienced personally as She can only be understood objectively in limited ways due to our limited means. In fact, even Sri Krsna is bewildered by Her, as I'm sure you are already aware.

 

Faith is inspired first and foremost by hearing, preferably in the living association of those actually experiencing what they are speaking about while they are talking or writing.

 

Much has been said regarding so many different aspects of the Absolute, both personal and impersonal. Radha is the MOST personal, inner and confidential essence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His Divine Grace readily makes everything available, but not everyone wants it all, or perhaps many are just not ready.

 

Your question seems to boil down to an explanation of how the internal potency works. That simply cannot be answered. As the Bible tells us, "God works in mysterious ways." Radhika is the wonder of wonders, yet She will reveal something of Herself to one who needs to know for all the right reasons, not merely out of intellectual curiosity.

 

We have to keep in mind that the goal of Bhakti is more Bhakti, nothing else, and that can be seen as love for the sake of love or the unmotivated desire for pure devotional service. As the other guest stated so well, without EMPATHIZING with Radharani, the desire to pray for a particular kind of mercy would never emerge in the first place.

 

Srila Prabhupada has surely given us all that we need in his books and dieties. Still inner surrender is required to hear as well as listen. Srila Narottama dasa Thakura put it this way, "The great ocean of love of Krsna stretches without limit in all directions. Although Narottama dasa does not know how to swim across that ocean, he plunges headfirst into it." For me the word "headfirst" is significant. A leap of faith is needed at some point, the heart's demands extinguishing the mind's warnings, "he plunges."

 

Forgive me please for trying to answer what I think you intended for the other guest. I trust he/she will feel free to correct whatever words I may have incorrectly put into his/her mouth. Lord Caitanya appeared in the mood of Radharani, but what mood? Truth is, nothing we feel is not felt by Her millions and trillions of times more intensely. She understands us better than we could ever possibly understand ourselves.

 

Our deepest most personal hidden fears can be immediately set right in Her, by Her, with Her. Not taking full shelter of Radhika while entering the path of devotional service is like being in a trailer park with a tornado coming. Really, there's nothing else to hold onto that can withstand this storm.

[Guest guest]

I did not need to bring this out explicitly, but perhaps it would be best if I state it in open that I am presently not a "follower" of gaudiya vaishnava theology, although I was once upon a time a rather committed foot soldier bordering on the fanatic. What I mentioned in my last posts are surely coloured by my experiences then, not just a reply to your posts. However, I have expressed an opinion. I am sorry if that sounded as if I had intended it to be an imperative. Again, this is not a negative criticism of gaudiya vaishnavism. What it gives to an appropriate follower is nowhere else to be found, but certain quarters believe that an individual does not have the right for his own personal quest for God and thus everybody needs to, somehow or the other, operate within the bounds of a particular theology.

 

 

Somehow or other, we must carry on TOGETHER.

 

 

 

I somehow feel that it is not a pragmatic endeavour given the diversity of predilections. However it seems that God is willing to let each diverse approach to him coexist simultaneously. The best each one of us can do is refrain from criticising and looking down upon each other even if the other approach seems to be diametrically opposed to ours. We can't be too presumptuous to claim we are the proprietors of the ultimate realization. That would be an insult to the infinite God Himself.

 

 

For me a major turning point was understanding our relationships are with Radha and, only through Her, one and other. Trying to connect directly with Krsna and recognize Him in each other simply will not work. Call it what you will, I see that realization as the master key that can answer all questions, when properly applied.

 

 

 

It a master key for *YOU* and I am happy that you have found that with which you can intimately relate.

 

There is a tendency, however, to extrapolate one's realization as having universal efficacy and validity. And this is what I do not agree with. After years of trying to get adjusted to what I was told would be a realization similar to what you have stated above, I just could not remove an intense nagging feeling gnawing my heart. I was torn apart by thoughts of committing offences for long. Till one day I realized that my soul was just not made for this stuff.

 

I may be too dense to understand Vraja bhakti, or for that matter, to cultivate a feeling of nearness to Sri Radha. I can, however, get a faint understanding of what a Rupanuga might feel like by my association and better understanding of other sects having an analogous model of devotion. But, on the other hand, I would not be entirely incorrect in stating that, Rupanugas, although they may claim otherwise, do not have a correct and holistic realization of other traditions. Somehow it is good for them, otherwise it would be a "catch 22" situation. But such a "too much dangerous knowledge" has afforded a situation for me where I am ultimately at peace with myself.

 

I am sure that denizens of Vaikuntha have an inherent unwritten knowledge of not overstepping each others boundaries. And thus they are all able to worship the one God together inspite of their differences.