Lord Siva and Brahma

[sudhaya]

 

Hare Krsna,

 

What are the differences between these two Personalities, anyone have any quotes, can't seem to find anything, yet.

 

Need more!

[sudhaya]

Letter to: Ekayani, LA 25 July, 1970 {excerpt} Prabupada:

Yes, Mahesa Dama is in the spiritual sky. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and Brahma Samhita. At the time of dissolution of the material worlds, Lord Siva remains in His spiritual abode while the cosmic manifestation merges into the body of Mahavisnu.

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So that means Mahesa Dama is Eternal situated in the spiritual sky, so Lord Siva right now is where /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Guest guest]

CC Madhya 20.302-305

 

Because of his past pious activities mixed with devotional service, the first-class living entity is influenced by the mode of passion within his mind. Such a devotee is empowered by Garbhodakasayi Visnu. In this way, an incarnation of Krsna in the form of Brahma engineers the total creation of the universe. 'The sun manifests his brilliance in a gem, although it is stone. Similarly, the original Personality of Godhead, Govinda, manifests His special power in a pious living entity. Thus the living entity becomes Brahma and manages the affairs of the universe. Let me worship Govinda, the original Personality of Godhead. If in a kalpa a suitable living entity is not available to take charge of Brahma's post, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself personally expands and becomes Lord Brahma.

 

308: Rudra, Lord Siva, has various forms, which are transformations brought about by association with maya. Although Rudra is not on a level with the jiva-tattvas, he still cannot be considered a personal expansion of Lord Krsna.

 

310-11: 'Milk changes into yogurt when mixed with a yogurt culture, but actually it is constitutionally nothing but milk. Similarly, Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, assumes the form of Lord Siva [sambhu] for the special purpose of material transactions. I offer my obeisances at His lotus feet.' Lord Siva is an associate of the external energy; therefore he is absorbed in the material quality of darkness. Lord Visnu is transcendental to maya and the qualities of maya. Therefore He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead

 

317: The conclusion is that Lord Brahma and Lord Siva are simply devotee incarnations who carry out orders. However, Lord Visnu, the maintainer, is the personal feature of Lord Krsna

 

 

Visvanatha Cakravarti's Madhurya Kadambini (third shower)-

 

Due to the non-similarity of caitanya, Visnu and Brahma are different. Sometimes Puranas describe the nondifference of Visnu and Brahma. This nondifference may be considered like that of the sun and the suryakanta-mani, the stone empowered by the sunlight. In some mahakalpas, like Brahma-kalpa, some jiva empowered by the Lord becomes Siva. Sastras say, “Sometimes a jiva is also empowered as Siva or Brahma.” sastra also says, “One who considers Lord Narayana, the Supreme among demigods, as equal to Brahma, Rudra, and other demigods is certainly an atheist.” This sastric evidence will be considered proper when Siva and Brahma are both in the category of eminent jivas.

 

Those who have not discussed these truths say, “Visnu is the only Lord, not Siva”, “Siva is the only Lord, not Visnu.” “We are the sole devotees of Visnu and will not see Siva.” "We are the sole devotees of Siva and will not see Visnu.” Their minds thus absorbed in arguments, they commit offense. If in time, such offenders get the association of sadhus expert in discussing all these truths and are enlightened by them, they can also realize the nondifference of Siva and the Lord. Then by doing nama-kirtana, their aparadha is nullified.

 

 

Visvanatha Cakravarti's Bhagavatamrta Kana

 

In some kalpas, a jiva (living entity) who has amassed profuse piety takes the position of Lord Brahma and creates the universe. In this instance, due to the infusion of the Lord's potency in that jiva, he is referred to as an avesavatar. Because in that Brahma there is a connection with the mode of passion, he cannot be compared on a equal footing with Lord Visnu. In those kalpas when there is an absence of any qualified jiva to take up the position of Lord Brahma, then Lord Visnu Himself becomes Lord Brahma. Similarly, during some manvantaras, the incarnation of the Lord as Yagya has to take up the position of Lord Indra. During that manvantara when Yagya becomes Indra and during that kalpa when Visnu becomes Brahma, then it can be said that they (Brahma and Indra) attain equality with Lord Visnu.

 

...During some kalpas very pious jivas attain this position (Siva) whereas in others, Lord Visnu Himself accepts the position of Lord Siva. However, the personality of Sadasiva, is a plenary portion (vilas-vigraha: as distinct from svamsa expansions which are endowed with a smaller degree of potency from the original Godhead) of the self-same form of the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, and He is transcendental to the three modes of material nature. It is from Him that the gunavatar of Siva is expanded. Therefore He should be understood to be superior to Brahma, equal to Lord Visnu, and entirely separate from jivas, who are influenced by the material modes of nature

[Guest guest]

In one of the books, i'm not sure which one, maybe Krishna Book or in one of the chapters of SB, but the one that lists all the qualities of Krishna, and how everone else has only a certain number of those qualities, it explaines how Brahma is a "post" that a different qualified living entity occupies with each new creation of the material universe, but that Lord Shiva is an eternal individual person, not a "post" that anyone else can move into.

[Guest guest]

 

So that means Mahesa Dama is Eternal situated in the spiritual sky, so Lord Siva right now is where

 

 

Mahesa dhama is in the Spiritual Sky but not in Vaikuntha (Hari Dhama) if you can follow what i'm saying. In the Spiritual Sky in between Hari and Devi Dhama is Mahesa Dhama.

 

 

Brahma Samhita 5.43

 

Lowest of all is located Devi-dhama, next above it is Mahesa-dhama; above Mahesa-dhama is placed Hari-dhama [abode of Hari] and above them all is located Krsna’s own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms

 

 

1-19-1974, Lecture sb 1.16.23

 

This material world is devi-dhama, under the... You have seen the picture of Durga. So material nature is also devi, devi-dhama. And mahesa-dhama. Above this, there is mahesa-dhama, the region of Lord Siva. Devi-mahesa-hari-dhamasu. Then the Vaikunthas.

 

 

Regarding Sadasiva, who is Visnu tattva, he is in Vaikuntha.

 

 

Srila Rupa Gosvami writes in Laghu Bhagavatamrta 31

 

...vayavyadisu saiveyam shivaloke pradarshita

 

'In the Vayu and other Puranas he is shown to be in Shiva loka.'

 

Baladeva Vidyabhusana in his tika on Laghu Bhagavatamrta comments - shiva loke vaikuntha dhamni - 'In Shiva Loka means in Vaikuntha dhama'.

 

 

CC adi 6.79 partial purport

 

In the Vayu Purana there is a description of Sadasiva in one of the Vaikuntha planets. That Sadasiva is a direct expansion of Lord Krsna's form for pastimes. It is said that Sadasiva (Lord Sambhu) is an expansion from the Sadasiva in the Vaikuntha planets

[sudhaya]

 

Thankyou all,

 

I'd like to make a comment though, from all I have read, it seems there should be no argument between Shivites and Vishnu devotees, its all there,

 

Sada-siva is expansion of KRSNA, who resides in Vaithuntha, Lord Siva for material affairs is in Mahesh dama,

 

KRSNA ---sada-siva---Lord Siva

 

I wonder why though Mahesh dama is situated in-between?

 

Also what part does Sada-siva play in Vaikunthaloka?

 

Any more info on what Sada-siva is doing?

[Guest guest]

"Also what part does Sada-siva play in Vaikunthaloka?"

 

 

Prabhupada: "That Sadasiva is a direct expansion of Lord Krsna's form for pastimes."

 

He is a vaibhava vilasa expansion of Krishna, he's engaging in his pastimes there in Vaikuntha like all the other Vaibhava Vilasa forms do.

[sudhaya]

 

He is a vaibhava vilasa expansion of Krishna,

--

 

No idea what that is. explain please,..

 

Seems like even Sada-siva wants to render service to KRSNA.

 

Simliar pastime comes to mind is, Lord Maha-Visnu stole Brahmana's babies, and KRSNA had to locate them, so Maha-Vishnu was doing service for KRSNA by letting KRSNA see Him{Maha-Visnu}, otherwise how else would Maha-Visnu see KRSNA? in case you have no idea what I am saying lol its in the www.krsnabook.com I am only guessing at the service thing. Sorry.

[Guest guest]

Sadasiva is a Vilasa Vigraha like Paravyoma Narayana

 

CC Adi 1.75-78

 

If numerous forms, all equal in their features, are displayed simultaneously, such forms are called prakasa-vigrahas of the Lord. But when the numerous forms are slightly different from one another, they are called vilasa-vigrahas. When the Lord displays numerous forms with different features by His inconceivable potency, such forms are called vilasa-vigrahas. Examples of such vilasa-vigrahas are Baladeva, Narayana in Vaikuntha-dhama, and the catur-vyuha — Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha.

 

 

"Seems like even Sada-siva wants to render service to KRSNA."

 

Yes, see http://www.stephen-knapp.com/shiva_and_durga.htm

 

scroll down to "In the Sri Sanatkumara-samhita, from the ancient Skanda Purana, we find a conversation between the great sage Sri Narada and Lord Sadashiva"