Swaminarayan was god supreme

[mac00uk]

There is absolute truth in Swaminarayan being God supreme. He is the lord and he isn’t just a saint.

 

There is only one god. First of all God Shree Krishna states in the Bhagvat Geeta that whenever there is unrighteousness and evil prevailing the earth he will either come himself or send his saints down to earth to get rid of the sinners and once again establish the path of righteousness.

 

It is stated in the Padma puran (one of the 18 purans of our religion as directed by god supreme):

 

II Datatrayam krutyuge,

tretayaam raghunandana,

dvapare vasudevaha,

kalou swami vrushatmaja II

 

This means that in satyug I (god) will be born as datatray, in tretayug as raam son of the raghu clan, in dwapar yug I will come as Krishna son of vasudev and in kaliyug ill come named Swami son of Dharm (Dharmadev).

 

It also states in Vishnu dharmottar:

 

II Pakhandbahuleloke swami namna hari swayam,

papank nimagnam tajuddhaaryishyati II

 

II Mahadharmanvye punye,

naamna paapvinashke,

hariprasad vivrasya,

swami namna hari svayam II

 

This means that in kaliyug where evil triumphs, I purna purushotam will arrive on the earth named hari. I will redeem many souls and increase their punya (good deeds). I Swami will be born to Hari prasad.

 

*note Dharm dev (father of Swaminarayan Bhagwan) is stated as in our scriptures as Dev Sharma and Hari prasad and his mother is named as Bhakti, premvati or bala.

 

There you go this proves it all. If you people are still in doubt print this out and show a literate purani Brahmin and ask them if this is within the text.

 

By the way God is almighty. Many worship him differently. As Shiv, Amba (Parvati), Ganesh (Krishna avatar), Hanuman (Shiv’s anshavtaar). These are all his incarnations. He is one Shiv is also Narayan. They are to be treated as one bhramroop (As one entity).

 

Jay hari, Jay Hind.

God bless.

 

[sudhaya]

 

 

Shikshapatri

 

Sloka 62

All shall worship with singular devotion only that form of Lord Shri Krishna which is installed by the Acharya (who is a descendant of the family of Shri Dharmadev) and which is given to them for the purpose by him. All other forms of Lord Shri Krishna shall but be bowed and respected.

 

63

All my followers shall daily go to the temple of Lord Shri Krishna, in the evening and shall sing loudly the name of Lord Shri Krishna.

 

 

http://www.swaminarayanwales.org.uk/Shikshapatri/shikshapatridetails.asp?shlockcode=65

[Guest guest]

Yeh its the sikshapatri, that is what a soul should do in the kaliyug, whats wrong in that?

Like lord krishna worshipped Mount Goverdhan, which was shaligra( form of lord himself),

lord swaminarayan is mentioning the same. It helps a devotee in his path of navda bhakti.

[Haridham]

Swami Narayan as one of his incarnations in the srimad Bhagavatam.

 

He mentions Kalki in the end of kaliyuga and the bhagavatam(the highest purana) mentions of Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the hidden avatar.

 

So Krsna stu Bhagavan Swayam.

 

I am sure others will explain this better then I will.

 

I dont know much. But I am expecting big replies when I come back.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

 

It is stated in the Padma puran (one of the 18 purans of our religion as directed by god supreme):

 

II Datatrayam krutyuge,

tretayaam raghunandana,

dvapare vasudevaha,

kalou swami vrushatmaja II

 

This means that in satyug I (god) will be born as datatray, in tretayug as raam son of the raghu clan, in dwapar yug I will come as Krishna son of vasudev and in kaliyug ill come named Swami son of Dharm (Dharmadev).

 

It also states in Vishnu dharmottar:

 

II Pakhandbahuleloke swami namna hari swayam,

papank nimagnam tajuddhaaryishyati II

 

II Mahadharmanvye punye,

naamna paapvinashke,

hariprasad vivrasya,

swami namna hari svayam II

 

This means that in kaliyug where evil triumphs, I purna purushotam will arrive on the earth named hari. I will redeem many souls and increase their punya (good deeds). I Swami will be born to Hari prasad

 

 

Wherein these texts are these verses? Book #, Chapter #, Verse #? Isnt there one from Skanda Purana too?

[sudhaya]

 

Lets be careful. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

Actually I have been informed there are 2 sects, one broke away from the Original, the one that broke away looks to be more popular, the book they read it strewn with reffs to Krishna, this is surprising to me, I don't know much about it, I would like to hear from somebody impartial.

 

If anybody is out there?

 

Its good to know about this, in effect they are praying to Krishna some way or another, but they seem to be confusing Guru with God, they worship Guru as actual God, when instead it should be worship Guru as representative of God, somewhere along the line it got lost,

 

I think, and I am not sure about this, the sect that broke away, is practicing in a bona-fide way?

[vijay]

heres the other quote swaminarayans use

Maya krushnana Nihataha Sarjunana Raneshu Yay |

Pravartayishyantyasurastay Tvadharmam Yada Kshitauha ||42||

Dharmadevatada Murtaum Naranarayatmana |

Pravrutayapi Kalau Brahman ! Bhutvaham Samago Dvijaha ||43||

Muni-shapan-nrutam Praptam Sarshim Janakmatmanaha |

Tatoavita Gurubhyoaham Sadharmam Sthapayanaja ||44||

 

This clearly explains that in Kali yuga, the Lord will be born to a family of Samvedi brahmins, to Dharma dev and Murti devi using Narnarayan as the causal factor. By establishing Dharma, he will free the Munis and his parents from the curse of the Rishi, which sent them all on earth to be reborn.

 

Again this does not seem accurate swaminarayans mothers name wasnt murti devi.

 

And i will check the above quotes out soon.

 

I myself am born in to the swaminarayan sect the one that claims to be the original sect (isso)

 

Anyway the other sect (baps) believes that the next 24 gurus that come down from swaminarayan are god themselves they use a verse from the vachanamrta. There are also many other break away sects liek bapashri who worship only their gurus and now ignore/minimise krishna shiva and even swaminarayan himself.

 

The way i see it is that these swaminarayan guys are taking a big risk especially the ones that claim swaminarayan is the supreme avatari the source of krishna, narayana, shiva etc.

 

They claim this however it seems a bit strange that this supreme personality is not mentioned in scripture as such if at all mentioned directly anywhere.

 

I myself worship krishna as at least that is clearly supported in scriptures form vedas to puranas.

 

Anyone believeing swaminarayan is supreme avatari is basing that not on vedic athority as scripture does not state this anywhere.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

 

[vijay]

The verse mentioned states he will be a swami and hari himself this does not mean swaminarayan it can just as well mean any swami claiming to be god.

 

Please find specific verses especially if your trying to prove him as avatari, and please include references as its difficult to verify without context.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

[sudhaya]

 

Anyone believeing swaminarayan is supreme avatari is basing that not on vedic athority as scripture does not state this anywhere.

----

 

Is the one in London. The Babashri sect?

 

They worship Pramuch Swami Maharaja (Guru)

and Swami-Narayana (whom they call Source of KRNSA)

 

but also in the temple they worship KRSNA.

 

Curious indeed.

[vijay]

http://www.shikshapatri.org.uk/~imagedb/content.php/rmwc

 

This give a history of the sect and hows its divided up in to different factions, hope it helps.

 

The neasden one is the BAPS sect, they worship Pramuch Swami Maharaja as god.

 

[Guest guest]

Nar narayan dev was in badrikashram. u lot heard the story of him being cursed by rishi dhurvasa? Swaminarayan was nar narayan incarnate himself.

if you do not want to believe it dont, but dont stop others and mis guide them in any way ok?

because swaminarayan followed the teachings of ramanuj acharya. Ramanand swami was incarnate of udhavji. Hence he swaminarayan sampraday was once called udhav sampraday. what he did no ordinary man could do.

Krishna himself has declared that he is ever present on the earth, if not as himself then his saints are. Lord swaminarayan re established the vedic rituals and practices that were being abolished at the time. God is said to come whenever there is unrightousness. he will protect the vedas and saints and re establish religion. he did this. Read the vachanamrut! it is divine. Lords words himself. A true gnani. it makes life so peaceful. it reads about brahm (purush), jiva (soul), ishawar (vairat narayan), maya (prakruti) and par brahm (vasudev narayan). and how to love the lord and fill yourself with bhakti. the lord created many a miracles and up lifted society. along with the creations of millions of brahmands through maya and pradhan purush.

 

Do not just insult the lord. be happy. god comes in many forms. and as a vaishnav we should understand this. even the vedas cannot describe hari and his leela and his various forms, so who are we to discriminate?

 

fill yourself with Bhakti and love for krishna. He is source of all. You will begin to even treat mere souls as god and see god in them all. and have that love for them.

 

Jay shri krishna, jay swaminarayan. jay dwarika deesh. sab santan ki jay!

[sudhaya]

 

Hare Krsna

 

Its bit complicated, I can see the different views, somewhat, the rules and regulations devotees Swaminarayana live by are the same as in Iskcon/Gaudiya Math.

 

So is the person they call Swaminarayana God or devotee of God? Are there some differences of opinion on this, since worship of KRSNA is recommended, in your sect?

 

And Pramuch Swami Maharaja is one of the 24 Gurus as you mentioned?

 

Worship of Guru is great, like Christians they do the same; they worship Jesus Christ as Guru.

 

So is Swaminarayana sect similar?

[Guest guest]

Dear friend.

 

I can understand as a Swami Narayan Devotee you saying 'Jay Hari' but 'Jay Hind'? What about 'Jay America' or 'Jay Pakistan'? Either you have not understood Sanatan Dharama or what you are taught where ever you go is not as per Sanatan Dharma.

If you are a student of Krsna Consciousness or the science of God and soul than don't limit yourself with Patriotism, Sanatan Dharma is far beyond 'Jay Hind' or India or Indian or any such bodily designations.

Hope this meets you well.

 

Hare Krsna.

"always remember Krsna, never forget Krsna"

[vijay]

Yep the rules are the same as ISKCON

 

In the swaminarayan sect Swaminarayan is considered to be the Avtrai the source of everything including krishna rama narayan. So he is worshiped as god supreme.

 

The BAPS sect as well as worshipping swaminarayan as supreme source of narayana's and krishna and rama, also consider pramuch swami as god not just representative but god himself.

 

[vijay]

Verse 25 shikshapatri

One shall never listen to any religious discourses from a person whose preaching may deviate one away from the devotion to Lord Shree Krishna or one's religious duty.

 

Verse 29

One shall never listen to or believe those scriptures in which Lord Shree Krishna and His incarnations have been skilfully and deceitfully denied or degraded.

 

Verse 39

One shall never practise devotion to Lord Shree Krishna without observance of Dharma, and shall never give up devotion to Lord Shree Krishna for fear of criticism from ignorant persons.

 

Verse 42

The Tilak shall be made with Gopichandan or consecrated sandalwood paste mixed with . and Kumkum that has been offered to Lord Shree Krishna.

 

Verse 49

My disciples shall awaken daily before sunrise, and immediately offer prayers to and meditate on Lord Shree Krishna, before attending to their bodily functions and going to answer the call of nature.

 

Verse 54

They shall then respectfully bow down before the images (or idols) of Shree Radha Krishna, and chant the mantra according to their capacity. Only after this, may they attend to their daily activities.

 

Verse 55

Even those devotees who are Atmanivedi, like King Ambarisha, shall also perform the daily rituals as described above, up to the meditation upon Lord Shree Krishna.

 

Verse 56

These Atmanivedi devotees shall worship the idols of Lord Shree Krishna made of stone or metal, or a Shaligram, with offerings (of sandalwood, flowers, fruits etc.) which are available at the time, according to their own capacity. They shall then chant the eight-syllabled holy mantra of Lord Shree Krishna.

 

Verse 57

They shall then read hymns or the holy scriptures about Lord Shree Krishna according to their ability. Those who are unacquainted with Sanskrit prayers shall sing songs in praise of God.

 

Verse 63

All my disciples shall visit the temple of Lord Shree Krishna every evening and sing loudly songs praising God and chant His names.

 

Verse 63

All my disciples shall visit the temple of Lord Shree Krishna every evening and sing loudly songs praising God and chant His names.

 

Verse 98

The fifth and the tenth canto of Shrimad Bhagavatam shall be regarded as the best amongst these scriptures for acquiring knowledge of the glory and greatness of Lord Shree Krishna.

 

Verse 100

I accept the Bhashya on Vedanta Sutra by Vyas and Shrimad Bhagavad Gita as authoritative for acquiring knowledge of spiritual philosophy.

 

Verse 101

The portions of these scriptures which describe Lord Shree Krishna, His image, duties of Dharma, Bhakti, and Vairagya shall be treated as taking precedence over all other portions. The essence of these scriptures is that Bhakti is inseparable from Dharma.

 

---------------------------

Verse 108

That Ishwara is Lord Shree Krishna: Parabrahman, Bhagawan, Purushottam, our beloved deity and cherished God. He is worthy of worship and devotion by all, and is the source of all incarnations.

---------------------------

Verse 109

He shall be Known as Radhakrishna when he is accompanied by Radha. He shall be known as Lakshmi-Narayana, when accompanied by Rukmani or Lakshmi. He shall be known as Nara Narayana when associated with Arjuna. (And as Rama Krishna, when associated with Balarama.)

 

************************************************************

Verse 113

All human beings on this earth shall worship Lord Shree Krishna with devotion, knowing that there is no other way to ultimate salvation than devotion to Lord Shree Krishna.

***********************************************************

Verse 115

Lord Shree Krishna, His incarnations, idols, and images alone are worthy objects for meditation. One should never meditate upon any Jiva, person, Deva (demi-gods), or deity, even if he is a profound devotee or a Brahmaveta.

***********************************************************

Verse 121

 

All my disciples shall understand that my school of Vedanta is Vishishtadwaita of Shree Ramanuja and my beloved abode is Golokdhama and the Mukti one shall desire is to get the divine body in the Dhama just like that of Brahman and to render service to God Shree Krishna.

 

Verse 204

I have compiled this Shikshapatri, taking the essence of all Shastras. By obeying these commands, the desires of any human being will be fulfilled.

 

 

Any way its clear that swaminarayan instructed the worship of krishna who he says in the shikshapatri is the source of all incarnations (avtari)

 

However some swaminarayans claim that swaminaryan wrote these statments just to satisfy the vaishnavs at that time (even though he didnt have to go to the extent of saying Krishna is avtari).

 

But as Hare Krishnas we accept the entire shikshpatri as there is nothing different at all to what we practice.

 

It is also strange he mentions valabhacarya in the shikshapatri who is connected to chaitanya mahaprabhu intimately. It was chaitanya mahaprabhu who advocated radha-krishna worship, before the 6 goswamis got to vrindavan 500 years ago it was an uninhabitated forest. So i suspect the influence of mahaprabhu is there.

 

Anyway swaminarayan himself condems worshiping any jiva even if he is a devotee only krishna and his incarnations should be worshiped according to shastra.

 

So if the swaminarayans think they know better than the vedas and swaminarayans own words then so be it.

 

Jai Shri Krishna

 

 

 

 

This is from swaminarayan himself he makes it quite clear worship of krishna is supreme

[Guest guest]

so what? it was a mere phrase. whats wrong in that? my motherland. im prising the land of god! like jai dwarika. Jai Ganga maya ki. big deal. im a vaishnav. and happy that i made it in this life and found krishna and all his avtaars (inc swaminarayan, chaitanya, jalaram, ram narsinh etc) i will not criticise any of them as they are well endowed 2 be the parbrahm!

i aint complaining like some! whats the need? rather stay happy lost in gods bliss and bhakti!

[Guest guest]

by the way dont try teach me bout sanatan dharm or that ive been taught wrong. ur full of ego. you have internal enemies like ahamkaar,and anger i can tell just by your message.

learn to love all, even enemies!!!

even god respect the love even though he himself is nirgun.

sanatan dharm does not teach ahamkaar. get rid of it! fill yourself with love and respect and understanding for all his devotees. if you spite another devotee, you will degrade and fall into the clutches of maya.

[Guest guest]

yoy are right. there are wuite a few that have broke away. they are doing what is written in the barren philosophy. they are believing guru as god, swaminarayan bhagvaan did not say to do this. this is wrong. he wrote in the sikshapatri. my followors shall not meditate on a guru even if he has become a brahmveta (one with the lord). only meditate on god!

the akshar purushottam practices meditating and worshipping a guru as god and so do the maninagar sanstha.

 

[Guest guest]

Swaminarayan was god himself! the time of his arival and and place is stated in the skanda puran. Guru and god should be treated in a different way. God is supreme. the lord said do not meditate on a guru even though he is a brahmveta! Swaminarayan was Krishna himself. Ive seen all the signs!

[Guest guest]

Krishna is god according to the sawminarayan faith. and to teach us this the lord (swaminarayan) appeared along with sheshnaag (brother rampratap).swaminarayan was krishna himself. like chaitanya mahaprabhu. even sir malcolm john governer of rajkot in india (east india company) declared him as a supreme being.

[Guest guest]

Swaminarayans own words was that he was god himself. He states this in the Vachanamrut. He came with his divine qualities along with other akshar mukts such as shesh naag and sukhdev goswami as avtaars. he is great he is the lord!lord is great. only a branch that has been broken from the swaminarayan faith worships a guru as god. we do not!

[vijay]

What signs have you seen?

 

Also the quote in the skand purana says mukti devi isnt bhakti devi his mothers name?

 

All im saying is worship krishna at least he is definately god, as swaminarayan said dont worship a jiva and with swaminarayan it seems a bit risky as he isnt clearly in scripture so better to chant the names of krishna and meditate on him as instructed in the shikshapatri.

 

I dont critise him i respect him as a guru as i was born in a swaminarayan family and the first scriptures i read when i young was the shikshapatri.

 

However i rather follow his instruction rather than what his diciples said especially as his instructions are clear in the vedic scriptures krishna is everywhere and undoubtedly god, so better not to risk our spiritual lives based on sentiment we have a sure path which is the srimad bhagvatam and bhagavad gita especially written by vyas for kaliyuga for people like us. It is also said in the last skan/canto of bahgvatam that many so called gods and interpretations of god will come about in kaliyuga, so its a dangerous time we are in at the moment, and we know by swaminarayan, chaitany mahaprabhu and many others that krishna bhakti, rama bhakti, narayan bhakti is definately bonifide so let us follow that.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Guest guest]

 

below is a quote from vijay

 

heres the other quote swaminarayans use

Maya krushnana Nihataha Sarjunana Raneshu Yay |

Pravartayishyantyasurastay Tvadharmam Yada Kshitauha ||42||

Dharmadevatada Murtaum Naranarayatmana |

Pravrutayapi Kalau Brahman ! Bhutvaham Samago Dvijaha ||43||

Muni-shapan-nrutam Praptam Sarshim Janakmatmanaha |

Tatoavita Gurubhyoaham Sadharmam Sthapayanaja ||44||

 

This clearly explains that in Kali yuga, the Lord will be born to a family of Samvedi brahmins, to Dharma dev and Murti devi using Narnarayan as the causal factor. By establishing Dharma, he will free the Munis and his parents from the curse of the Rishi, which sent them all on earth to be reborn.

 

Again this does not seem accurate swaminarayans mothers name wasnt murti devi.

swaminarayans mother was murti devi. You have not done your research right. Murti Devi (Bhaktimata)was born in Chapaiya as Balamurti or Premvati. Her parents (Bhavani and Krushnasharma)themselves called her this! It is stated in the Satsanghi Jeevan written by Shatanand Swami over 200 years ago. So why are you denying this. I am myself am not bornwithin the Swaminarayan Sampraday and yet recognise the lord. And can you Tell me why is it that Lord swaminarayan had 16 chinhs on his feet? and his janam Kundali is said to be divinly auspicious by brahmins of today.

 

do not deny the lord. You will not advance in any way.

 

 

Jay swaminarayan. Jay nar narayan dev. Jay Lakshminarayan Dev. Jay Dwarika Deesh.

 

[Guest guest]

well you tell me- where is the son of murti devi that came? where else is he? Murti Devi was Bhaktimata. Bhaktimata was a mere name given to her as she had deep bhakti for Krishna. There is nothing risky in Swaminarayan. You are speaking Ill. However you worship the same anyway. Krishna and i worship the same (swaminarayan). there were many people who are trying to be God i know. We can see this today. But a mere man trying to be God would change Dharm for the bad and have it his way unlike Swaminarayan who told his devotees to worship Krishna and preserve it according to the ved. He himself stated that he is lord. He is NarNarayan incarnate. He came for the good of souls and to preserve dharm. If it wernt for his grace people would be carrying out black magic, going against the ved, eating meat, dringing wine, killing, looting etc. The lord did what no other man could do. He also did what no avtari would do. Only the lord shows these signs. Only the lord has 16 holy signs on his feet. Only he is antaryami. Only he would come according to scriptures such as skanda puran and vishnu dharmottar etc. Why do you deny this fact?

[vijay]

apologies, i havent done my research, but will do ive sent a list of the quotes to someone who knows sanskrit and has the puranas. will get back to you.