origins of a woman according to the Bible

[Kulapavana]

I'm sorry that I was harsh with you prabhu. I tend to have little patience with nameless guests, as they are rarely sincere. I can see now you may be different. Please chose a name here so we can distinguish you from them. I also hope Lord Krishna gives me His mercy, so I can serve Him better. Dandavats to you. Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

Kulpavana "The cycle of religious violence is pretty much limited to semitic religions. Did Vaishnavas EVER! use their religion as an excuse to invade other people's land and kill them? If you want to see bigotry you only need to look at the history of semitic religions to see the ugliest examples of it. Pointing it out to blind people like you is NOT bigotry. All religions are NOT the same. Krishna calls on us to reject all these cheating religions and surrender to Him alone. This surrender is the ONLY common denominator in different religions."

 

So why make jokes about other religions? Are you saying that "rejecting all these cheating religions" is best done by belittling them?

 

READ WHAT YOUR OWN GURU SAYS:

Srila Prabhupada: No, we welcome every religion. We don't decry any religion. Our point is the love of Godhead. Or Krsna is love, all-attractive. So we want to be attracted by Krsna. Just like a magnetic force and iron. Unless iron is rusty, it is automatically attracted by the magnetic force. Similarly, we are contaminated by material coverings. So we are trying to make it rustless so that immediately we shall be attracted. This is the program. Krsna is all-attractive. That is a fact. And we are attracted. But being covered with this rust, we are, instead of being attracted by Krsna, we are being attracted by maya. This is our whole program. So our central program is how to love Krsna, or how to love God. So we want to see... That is the Bhagavata definition, that how much you have enhanced your love of God. You call Krsna or something else, that doesn't matter. Phalena pariciyate. The result. Your religious principle, what is the result? Are you enhancing your love for God or dog? That we want to see. If you are enhancing your love for God, it is all right. We don't say anything. But if... People should learn how to love. That is the perfection of life. That we are teaching.

--------------------

[Guest guest]

 

Exodus in the Bible:

 

32:26 Moses stood up at the camp's entrance and announced, 'Whoever is for God, join me!' All the Levites gathered around him.

32:27 He said to them, 'This is what God, Lord of Israel, says: Let each man put on his sword, and go from one gate to the other in the camp. Let each one kill all those involved in the idolatry, even his own brother, close friend, or relative.'

32:28 The Levites did as Moses had ordered, and approximately 3000 people were killed that day.

32:29 Moses said, 'Today you can be ordained [as a tribe dedicated] to God with a special blessing. Men have [been willing to kill even] their own sons and brothers [at God's command].

 

 

Prabhupada: If you think that “I shall read scriptures and I shall understand God,” no, that is also not possible. srutayo vibhinnah. Scriptures are also different. Because scriptures are made according to time, circumstances, people. Just like Bible. Bible Lord Jesus Christ preached in the desert, Jerusalem. Or where it is? People who were not so advanced. Therefore his first instruction is “Thou shall not kill.” That means they were very much engaged in killing affairs; otherwise, why is this instruction? And actually, it so happened that they killed Jesus Christ. So that society was not very enlightened society. So a scripture for a society which is not very enlightened and a scripture for a society which is very enlightened must be different. Just like a dictionary. For the schoolboy, a pocket dictionary. And for a college student, international, big dictionary. Both of them are dictionaries. But the small pocket dictionary is not equal to the big dictionary. Because it is different made for different classes of men. So scriptures are made according to different classes of men ~Lecture September 23, 1969~

 

 

Prabhupada: Convention means they are partially good for the time being, that’s all. They are not eternally... Just like in the Bible it is said, “Thou shalt not kill.” (chuckles) But this is not, does not come within the category of eternal religion. People were so corrupted that they were forbidden, “No, don’t do this.” “Thou shalt not covet,” a little moral instruction. That also, they could not follow. There is no religion. And little God consciousness, “There is God, kingdom of God,” little idea for the persons who could understand. Otherwise, do you think that if somebody says, “Thou shalt not kill,” is that any religious principle? It is ordinary thing. Where is the question of God? ~Morning Walk April 20, 1974~

 

Prabhupada: So on the principle that God is Supreme, God is Great, I do not think there is any difference of opinion between us and the Christians. But the Vedic literatures being older and disseminated by many, many superior acaryas we can find out how God is great, how the creation took place one after another. These details are not found in any other scriptures in the world ~Letter to Tosana Krsna, June 23 1970~

 

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Christianity is incomplete Vaisnavism; not fullfledged, but the basis of devotional theism. We find the principle of "Die to live" there to a certain extent, at least physically. The Christians say that the ideal shown by Jesus is self-sacrifice. In our consideration, however, that is not fullfledged theism, but only the basis.It is an unclear, vague conception of Godhead: "We are for Him." But how much? And in what shape, in what attitude? All these things are unexplained and unclear in Christianity. Everything is hazy, as if seen from far off. It does not take any proper shape. The cover is not fully removed, allowing us to come face to face with the object of our service. The conception of service to God is there, and a strong impetus to attain that, so the foundation is good, but the structure over the foundation is unclear, vague, and imperfect.

 

[...]

 

We must cross the threshold given by Jesus. He has declared, "Die to live." The Lord's company is so valuable to us that we must risk everything for Him. This material achievement is nothing; it is all poison. We must have no attraction for it. We must be ready to leave everything, all our material prospects and aspirations, including our body, for Him. God is great. But what is His greatness? What is my position? How can I engage myself in His service twenty-four hours a day? Here, Jesus is silent.

 

We receive no specific program from the Christians at this stage, so Vaisnavism comes to our heart's relief, to satisfy our inner necessity, whatever it may be. Our inner thirst will be quenched there. ~The Search For Sri Krsna Reality The Beautiful~

[Kulapavana]

"So why make jokes about other religions?"

 

my posts were not meant as a joke but to spark a debate about the principles of true religion. when SP criticizes Christianity is it also "belittling"?

[Guest guest]

"my posts were not meant as a joke but to spark a debate about the principles of true religion. when SP criticizes Christianity is it also "belittling"? "

 

It looked insulting, but I guess if that was not your motive, then there are no grudges left to toggle. Sorry for mistaking you kulapavana.

 

By reading the excerpts from prabhupada like the ones posted here, I don't think he is belittling christianity. I think he is just explaining the "vagueness" in that religion and everyone knows that for a fact now.

 

[Kulapavana]

while so many devotees are busy defending the honor of Christianity and other abrahamic religions in order to avoid offending their sensitivity, the other side is busy decrying Vaishnavism as devil worship and idolatry worth the harshest of punishments (for latest example see the story in VNN on some rabid rabbi in Russia publicly raising a stink about us building a temple in Moscow). Yeah, I have a lot of symphaty for them...

[Guest guest]

"or latest example see the story in VNN on some rabid rabbi in Russia publicly raising a stink about us building a temple in Moscow"

 

We should do something about things like these, you should organize something and start protests or something in Russia. You should do something to stop the intolerance and teach them about vaishnavism.

 

Everyone (Vaishnava and non vaishnava) alike should protest against religious intolerance in Russia. The devotees there are probably carrying out all these things.

 

 

[Kulapavana]

Devotees in Russia and elsewhere are trying real hard to gain acceptance and promote religious tolerance but it seems like sometimes we are too kind with fools and demons like that. Sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. Especially if it is pretty obvious /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

you would think that at least on our own forum we could speak openly about these topics.

[Guest guest]

exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do"

 

Sold into slavery?

[theist]

"Religious" people and organizations have a history of being antagonistic to the spreading of a higher revelation of truth. The Jewish temple leaders felt threatened by the teaching of Christ. Their law said to stone the adulterous woman. Jesus said "let he among you that is without sin cast the first stone" They walked away ashamed. And angry.

 

They wanted to kill Bhaktisiddhanta.

 

They are feeling their territory is being threatened. Who knows where this will end. Christians were blamed by Nero for the big fire in Rome and they put Christians up on poles and lit them on fire and used them for torches.

 

Jew Muslim Christian or Hindu I trust no priest any more than a politician, this being kali-yuga and all.

[Guest guest]

Here's a thought. Is contemporary ISKCON feeling similarly "threatened" by other religious groups who are moving in on their "territory?" It would explain a lot.

 

Not that it's any of my business. Just food for thought.

 

[Guest guest]

 

I may be going out on a limb here, but I see the so called abrahamic approach to religion just as dangerous as Mayavada philosophy. It is now contaminating India like never before.

 

 

 

mAyAvAdis in theory at least share the same basic assumptions and pramAna-s as vaiShnavas do. But followers of the Abrahamic religions do not. So it is hard to imagine meaningful dialogue with them.

[Kulapavana]

good points. I still remember my shock at the ISKCON's treatment of B.R. Sridhara Maharaja.

[Guest guest]

Except Islam, most religions, including hinduism, have been oppressing women using various means such as caste system etc. Of course, certain islamic countries also do that, but on the whole, they are far better than others.

 

Regards,

Ahmed

[theist]

 

Except Islam, most religions, including hinduism, have been oppressing women...

 

 

[Kulapavana]

... but I might be wrong. And the "honor killings" of women by their own family are strictly Moslem invention

[Guest guest]

were started by hindus. Sati, burning the bride, was started by hindus. child-marriage, casteism-hindus again. All evil, sick practices were started by vedic people, which blind westerners are following now. Soon, Hindus are going to become westernised, and westerners are going to become hindus, and the world will be a funny place then. It seems as if only muslims can stick to their noble philosophy, without aping others.

 

Regards,

Ahmed

[Kulapavana]

Whatever... It is very important for all religious people to cultivate a culture of nobility, not barbarism. If you find the Moslem religion as most inspirirng for you than there is no need to change. may your religious understanding deepen with practice, may you always be non violent towards all God's creation. Hare Krishna!

[theist]

 

It seems as if only muslims can stick to their noble philosophy, without aping others.

 

 

But can they stick to their religion without indiscriminate bombing of others?

 

You know spreading terror is not the same as spreading love for God.

 

The best of all religious teaching in the world is contained within Vaisnavism without the dross.