Is A Physically Present Spiritual Master Required?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I perfectly agree with the tenor and spirit of the following:

 

...

 

I've said before on this forum, that my rational mind cannot accept (despite what is said in scripture) that a Guru is absolutely required to attain salvation :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: and that, by sincerity alone, a person stranded on a desert isle could not attain the sweetest destination.

 

Krsna Prabhu. Thanks for your support, but I'm not sure if you counted all the negatives in that statement of mine. I may not have been saying exactly what you thought I said

 

Hoping to attain your service,

 

--MMd

[suchandra]

 

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada: Narada Muni is our original guru because he is the spiritual master of Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva is the spiritual master of our disciplic succession; therefore we should follow in the footsteps of Narada Muni and become pure Vaisnavas. A pure Vaisnava is one who has no ulterior motive. He has totally dedicated himself to the service of the Lord.

 

"Being thus assured by the great sage Narada Muni, the hunter broke his bow, immediately fell down at the saint's lotus feet and fully surrendered. After this, Narada Muni raised him with his hand and gave him instructions for spiritual advancement."

 

This is the process of initiation. The disciple must surrender to the spiritual master, the representative of Krsna. The spiritual master, being in the disciplic succession stemming from Narada Muni, is in the same category with Narada Muni. A person can be relieved from his sinful activity if he surrenders to the lotus feet of a person who actually represents Narada Muni. Narada Muni gave instructions to the hunter after the hunter surrendered.

One simply has to follow the instructions of the spiritual master strictly. Then everything will be successful in due course of time.

http://devotees.krishna.org/Articles/2001/09/023.html

[Guest guest]

 

Srila Prabhupada was very busy in so many ways and it certainly was a distraction from the greater good if he had to take too much time out to tend to so many devotees that wanted some personal interaction.

 

In the later years especially he was very strict about devotees going through the authorities and the chain of command and not demanding personal instruction.

 

The way things were done in ISKCON was mostly a matter of absolute neccessity. Just because most devotees spent only a little time with Prabhupada does not mean that this is the best approach for all times to come.

 

Furthermore, most if not all of these devotees treasured such moments of direct personal association with Prabhupada as their most precious posession - thus proving one more time how important vapu is for the disciple.

 

One of the most common voiced complains I hear from new devotees is that their guru does not spend enough time training them directly. That is why people end up poorly trained - both now and in the past. While Srila Prabhupada had no choice but to travel very frequently, that is not the case with the new gurus. They travel mostly out of sheer desire not to settle down somewhere and actually become directly responsible for training people in some area.

 

In a nutshell: just because this is the way something was done when Prabhupada was here does not mean that we should keep on doing it now.

[Guruvani]

 

The way things were done in ISKCON was mostly a matter of absolute neccessity. Just because most devotees spent only a little time with Prabhupada does not mean that this is the best approach for all times to come.

 

Furthermore, most if not all of these devotees treasured such moments of direct personal association with Prabhupada as their most precious posession - thus proving one more time how important vapu is for the disciple.

 

One of the most common voiced complains I hear from new devotees is that their guru does not spend enough time training them directly. That is why people end up poorly trained - both now and in the past. While Srila Prabhupada had no choice but to travel very frequently, that is not the case with the new gurus. They travel mostly out of sheer desire not to settle down somewhere and actually become directly responsible for training people in some area.

 

In a nutshell: just because this is the way something was done when Prabhupada was here does not mean that we should keep on doing it now.

 

Well, I was trained-up very strictly in a special program for training new devotees that Srila Prabhupada authorized Danavir Maharaja to conduct.

 

I got a first class training program that was superior in discipline and sadhana than a majority of the ISKCON devotees got.

 

So, I don't believe that good training can come only for the diksha guru.

Many times a siksha guru can give more personal attention than the diksha guru.

 

I don't really consider Danavir Maharaja as my siksha guru, but he was a senior Godbrother who trained me nicely and made sure I got a chance to learn sadhana in a brahmacary environment.

 

I think it is childish and selfish to think that only the "guru" or the "acharya" or the "siksha guru" can train new devotees coming to Krishna consciousness.

 

Many of these "gurus" aren't even really fit people to train new devotees personally. They are jet-setting around the world and having fun. They don't have time to train disciples properly and in many cases their own sadhana is a joke.

 

I don't know exactly what the future holds for the Krishna consciousness movement, but I am quite confident that Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to be a model society, though it has surely fallen short in many ways since his passing.

 

I guess I was just one of the lucky ones who had a great experience in ISKCON and really saw the potential for the ISKCON model.

ISKCON was awesome from what I saw.

It was great.

I guess there were some glitches here and there, but MY ISKCON was fabulous and marvelous.

 

I personally think a ritvik ISKCON is the best model for the day and age we live. the long list of fallen gurus is testimony to the fact that there will be more in the future and it sure doesn't bode well for the legitimacy of the parampara.

 

And, a few old Swamis from the Gaudiya Matha aren't going to be around forever to be used as excuses for not reviving the authorized ritvik system for ISKCON.

[krsna]

"Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee bhagavat or the book bhagavat one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But, actually, these are facts . . ."</I>

 

 

 

<BIG>Srimad-Bhagavatam, 1.2.18, purport</BIG>

 

<BIG>" . . . read and study my books deeply, and, in this way, be enthusiastic about going back to Godhead in this life."</BIG></B></I>

 

 

<BIG>Letter (75-5-50/May 22</BIG>

 

[Laulyam]

<CENTER>Questions and Answers

 

</CENTER>Devotee #1: Sabda-brahma is Krishna in sound vibration?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. One has to hear. It is not that, "All right, tapes are there, I'll hear the recorded tapes." Sabda-brahma will never descend.

Devotee #2: It doesn't descend through transmission of tape?

Gour Govinda Swami: No, no.

Devotee #2: Only when you are personally sitting there with a pure vaisnava?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Now in this material scientific age so many techniques are there. People, say, "No more teacher are required. We'll teach through television." Nonsense. Sabda-brahma will never descend.

Devotee #3: What if one is a disciple of a bonafide guru, then later on that guru stops his lila. What should one do?

Gour Govinda Swami: Lila is always there:

adyapiha sei lila kare gaura-raya,

kona kona bhagyavan dekhibare paya

 

(Cb. quoted in Bhaktivinode Thakur's Navadvipa Mahatmya Pramana-khanda)

Gauranga's pastimes are still going on. People say, "Oh Gauranga Mahaprabhu has disappeared." One who is very fortunate and has vision he can see how gaura-lila is going on.

Devotee #3: That means that guru is always there?

Gour Govinda Swami:Yes. He is always there. His lila is going on.

Devotee #3: I may think, "I have already taken the dust of the lotus feet of my guru. Now he is not here. So I don't need that dust anymore."

Gour Govinda Swami: Darsana is there. The guru is always there if you have the eye to see. If you are a sat-sisya you can always see how the guru is present.

Devotee #4: How can we see guru?

Gour Govinda Swami: Blind man! If you are endowed with that vision you can see.I never lost sight of my guru. I see my guru is always there. Therefore I cannot say,"nitya-lila-pravistha". It is so painful to me. No! He is here.

Devotee #4: Do you have to be a pure dovotee to see a pure devotee?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes! That vision is required. If you have no vision then you are a blind man.How can a blind man see? The object is there. What is required to see the object? The first thing is the eye. Next is light. You may be endowed with vision, but if there is no light, how can you see? Can you see in the darkness? Therefore two things are required, first vision and then light. Even if you are endowed with eyes, if there is no light then you can't see. What is that light? The enlightenment by the mercy potency. If you are devoid of that, how can you see?

Devotee #5: Anarthas are like clouds in front of the eye?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, Yes. Anarthas are like clouds covering the sun. The eye is covered.

Devotee #2: Can one see guru appearing in different forms, or is he coming in dreams?

Gour Govinda Swami: He may come in a dream. He has different forms also, just as Krishna has different forms. Krishna has so many manifestations. Therefor we have described in our book Sri Guru-vandana about samasti-guru and vyasti-guru.

Devotee #6: What are those kind of gurus?

Gour Govinda Swami: Guru Krsna-rupa hana sastrera pramane (Cc. adi-lila1.45} -- scripture describes that it is Krishna who appears as guru.

Krishna is one. Guru tattva is also one. Guru is one, but he appears in different, different, forms. That is samasti-guru. The particular forms such as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, Srila Bhakitisiddhanta, this person and that, this is vyasti-guru.

Devotee #3: When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati left, guru was still there?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.

Devotee #3: Guru is always present?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, always present.

Devotee #3: Because guru is non-different from Krishna we understand that to be a guru is not an easy thing. So why is it said that someone maybe on the level of kanistha or madhyama and be guru?

Gour Govinda Swami: All are gurus. There is kanistha-guru, madhyama-guru, uttama-gurus. Divisions are there. What you deserve you get. Krishna knows what you deserve so He makes an appropriate arrangement for you.

Devotee #7: Some devotees are not accepting guru now. They are saying, "I'll just accept sastra.

Gour Govinda Swami: How can you understand sastra?

Devotee #7: But we have seen, as in Russia, that some devotees have only gotten books and they are now chanting, worshiping the deity, and preaching.

Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot understand. In sastra, mantra is there. Nama is there. But unless it comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Sri Guru, your chanting will never be effective. The potency will never be there.

Devotee #7: But they say that smrti-sastra is coming from the lips of vaisnavas, so we are heaing smrti.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. This is how sastra manifests. When is comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Sri Guru, then it manifests. Though sastra is there, by itself it will never manifest to you. It's a question of manifestation.

Devotee #7: Other persons say that we can hear from the commentaries of the vaisnava-acaryas.

Gour Govinda Swami: For that reason it is said,

bhaktya bhagavatam grahyam

na buddhya na ca tikaya

Srimad Bhagavatam can only be understood by bhakti, not be dint of one's intelligence or by reading commentaries. (Cc.24.313)

You cannot understand Bhagavata by taking help of the tikas, commentaries. So many commentaries are there. One may think, "Yes, I am a scholar. It is all written in Sanskrit. I know the language so I can read and understand it." No! You can only understand Srimad Bhagavatam by bhakti. You cannot understand Bhagavata by dint of your material scholarship, learning, intelligence, or by taking the help of the commentaries. No, no. Hear from acarya and then you can develop bhakti. Unless you hear, how can you understand just by reading? You cannot understand. Grantha-avatara will never manifest to you. You will only see paper, and black and white. Nothing else.

Devotee #7: Then what is the meaning of the brhad-mrdanga-sankirtana? Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati has said that our kirtana is brhad-mrdanga-sankirtana, the printing press.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. That will inspire you. Just one book distributed spreads so far. First you read the book and then one friend says, "Oh, let me read it." Then he lets someone else read it. In this way it sprads so much. The sound of the mrdanga only goes rom here to there. But the brhad-mrdanga spreads so far. That will inspire you. You will think, "Who is the source? Let me go and see and hear from him."

Devotee #7: So first you hear and then if you read the same thing in the sastra...

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. It is only in Kali-yuga that books are required.. In other yugas there are no books. Just by hearing once they would never forget. But in this yuga, if I ask you to repeat what you have heard after the class, how much can you repeat? You will have already forgotton ninety to ninety-five percent. Only five percent you may be able to repeat. Books are required. Therefore Vyasadev came and wrote books. In other yugas there are no books. They will help you remember, "Oh yes. I have heard. Now it is here."

Devotee #7: In your book Sri Guru-vandana, you have described this flow of nectar as padma-madhu.You said that it comes to a devotee who is a sincere hearer. So someone who is very sincere to hear from guru and serves guru, he may get that nectar even though he may not have physical contact? Gour Govinda Swami: You should be greedy. Physical contact is required. You must hear directly, not just by listening to tapes. Sabda-brahma will never descend through a tape. One must hear from a physically present Sri Guru.

[Guruvani]

then why did Gaura Govinda Maharaja allow his disciples to make tape recordings of his lectures if tapes cannot transmit sabda brahma?

 

His followers maintain a tape ministry.

http://www.srilagourgovindaswami.org/catalog.pdf

 

why do they do that?

Their guru said tapes are useless.

 

I think I smell some hypocrisy here.

 

Gaura Govinda Maharaja said tapes cannot transmit sabda brahma, but he allowed his disciples to maintain a tape ministry.

 

Then I guess since Gaura Govinda Maharaja did not accept that tapes can transmit spiritual knowledge that he was quite fine to distribute mundane sound vibrations with his tape ministry?

 

His criticism of tape recorded sabda brahma is tantamount to criticism of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Of course he thought he knew better than Srila Prabhupada and that is why the GBC was always on the verge of kicking him out of ISKCON.

 

I think I smell something rotten here with this attempt to have it both ways.

 

In other words, somebody was cheating.

 

Either Srila Prabhupada was cheating or Gaura Govinda Maharaja was cheating because they disagreed on the practice of giving diksha by tape recording.

 

I'll put my money on Srila Prabhupada.

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada gave diksha through tape.

Gaura Govinda Maharaja says its wrong.

 

I think that is what we call guru aparadha.

[Guest guest]

Disagreement, perhaps, but not aparadha. There is ample evidence of such disagreement among bonafide vaisnava acaryas throughout history, but they all agree on one thing, that you dont go around accusing vaisnavas of great offenses against each other when they actually are unified in the mission of Lord Chaitanya.

 

Tapes are not magic, devices have nothing to do with spiritual life. However, a device may work with an individual. Individuals receive divyajnana, the device is of no consequence. The ear is a device, forks, prongs, electricity, carbon based computer hardware. Sri Gour Govinda may even disagree with himself. Srila Prabhupada did. He stated that all his disciples must chant 16 rounds, but I know of one initiated disciple who was told to chant one round a day. This person was severely brain damaged, and spent many hours a day on this one round, much greater yajna than any of our 16 rounds, not to mention much more attentive. So, guru has the right to make exceptions to his own rules. Is Srila Prabhupada an offender to Srila Prabhupada. He also said that a disciple must live in the temple for at lesast 6 months prior to initiation. I was initiated after living in a center for only one month. I know at least four disciples of Srila Prabhupada who never lived in an ISKCON center, not even affiliated with them other than purchase books from them.

 

Disagreement, changes, strategies, these are not offenses, only offenses are offensive. Easy with your aparadha stick, bro, there are other places to wield such weapons.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guruvani]

 

There is ample evidence of such disagreement among bonafide vaisnava acaryas throughout history,

Difference between acharyas?

 

Since when does initiating a few neophytes make one an acharya?

 

Besides that disagreement among acharyas doesn't work when the other acharya is your spiritual master whos practices you are criticizing.

 

When a disciple criticizes practices of his spiritual master that is not a disagreement among acharyas - that is just plain and simple guru aparadha.

 

As for me, I had to do 2 years of strict obediance in ISKCON to get diksha.

 

Many of the crazies who joined ISKCON were still crazies even after they became "gurus", so that just proves that an acharya is not manifested by "initiating" some disciples when one is himself just stuggling to make rank as madhyama-adhikari.

[suchandra]

 

 

Since when does initiating a few neophytes make one an acharya?

 

 

THE GBC LAWBOOK

 

 

GBC Law 6.2 - Qualifications of Gurus in ISKCON

6.2.1 - Mandatory qualifications.

 

 

10. Must have no loyalties that compete with or compromise his loyalty to Srila Prabhupada, to his teachings and to ISKCON.

 

 

6.4.1.1 A candidate for guru in ISKCON must first receive a majority vote of approval in a council composed of all the GBC secretaries of his current preaching area and at least ten (10) other senior devotees.

 

6.4.1.1.2 …obtainment of “no objection” letters…from the GBC temple presidents and other authorities (managerial).

 

 

6.4.1.3.1 A thorough description of the qualifications of the candidate, showing point by point how he CONFORMS to the GBC standards…

 

6.4.1.3.3 Then the chairman of the council sends a “nomination” to the GBC describing how the candidate conforms to the GBC standards, his description and the description of all who voted for him and how “senior” they are and explanations why they voted for him.

 

6.4.1.3.2 Then he is properly endorsed.

 

 

GBC Law 6.4.2 Vows of Guru

 

2. I accept the GBC as the ultimate managerial authority in ISKCON. I support the GBC system and will follow them.

 

3. I remain surrendered to the orders of his authorized representatives….

 

5. As a spiritual master I must always conform to ISKCON policies.

 

7. I shall teach all my disciples they are part of ISKCON.

 

GBC Law 6.4.3 Standards of Conduct for Gurus in ISKCON

 

6.4.3.2.1 He must respect the GBC as Srila Prabhupada’s chosen successor, the ultimate authority, and respect, serve and follow them….

 

6.4.3.2.2 He must act under their supervision….

 

6.4.3.3 [He must] not change residence without their approval….

 

6.4.3.4.5 [He must] avoid confrontation….

 

6.4.3.4.6 [He must] not undermine ISKCON authorities in any way….

 

6.4.3.4.2 He must always cooperate with them….

 

6.4.3.4.4 [He] must instruct his disciples to cooperate with them.

[Guruvani]

Thats a lot of emphasis on a GBC that Srila Prabhupada never mentioned one time in his books and very rarely in letters.

 

The fact that Srila Prabhupada never mentioned the GBC as an authority in his books is proof that he knew the GBC was assured of becoming defunct after his passing.

He saw enough rot and corruption in the GBC while he was here that he knew for sure that GBC was going to become totally rotten after his passing.

 

The GBC has made ISKCON into a scandalous disgrace.

[suchandra]

 

 

The GBC has made ISKCON into a scandalous disgrace.

Another thing seems to be true, ISKCON gurus are ritviks of the GBC!

So at least they should admit that ritvicism is being practiced within ISKCON, although they say, ritvikism is only possible in the name of the GBC but not in the name of Prabhupada.

[Guruvani]

 

Another thing seems to be true, ISKCON gurus are ritviks of the GBC!

So at least they should admit that ritvicism is being practiced within ISKCON, although they say, ritvikism is only possible in the name of the GBC but not in the name of Prabhupada.

 

As long as the new devotees being initiated in ISKCON are being told and thinking that they are disciples of these ISKCON gurus, then they are not practicing a ritvik system.

 

There is no such thing as a covert ritvik system.

Because these new initiates don't consider themselves as disciples of Srila Prabhupada. They think of themselves as the disciple of some so-called ISCKON guru.

 

What the GBC has created is not a ritvik system, but a third species of guru that is neither traditional nor ritvik. In other words the GBC concocted a form of guru that neither Srila Prabhupada not the tradition acknowledges.

 

If a guru can't be trusted to function on his own without the oversight of a bureaucracy, then he is not really guru anyway.

 

Any true guru owes no allegiance to any bureaucracy such as the GBC.

 

A guru is supposed to be the representative of Krishna.

 

If he is representative of Krishna, then what business does the bureaucracy have in trying to keep him under their thumb with so many rules and regulations?

 

The GBC has usurped the actual authority of Krishna to appoint anyone he chooses to represent him in whatever way he pleases.

 

The GBC guru system is offensive to any and all Vaishnavas that could become self-effulgent acharyas after Srila Prabhupada.

 

It's a man-made bureacracy, but we all know that only Krishna can manufacture religions.

The GBC has invented a new religion that any guru must follow in order to get his rubber-stamp and his corperate badge.

[Guruvani]

As far as the topic of this thread is concerned "is a physically present spiritual master required?", I don't see why anyone should have to ask that question because Srila Prabhupada showed by his example in hundreds of cases that he accepted disciples that didn't have a physical connection to him.

 

So, other "gurus" and other "acharyas" might not agree and might not accept and might not practice that, but Srila Prabhupada did.

 

So, for anyone who accepts Srila Prabhupada as a bona fide authorized representative of Krishna, there should be no question of whether or not one needs to have a physical connection to the spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada showed unquestionably that he did not advocate that one must have a physical connection to the spiritual master.

 

Other "gurus" don't accept that and they preach against that, but Srila Prabhupada practiced the parampara in his own inspired way and if another guru wants to fault that, then that is his own choice and his own risk.

 

The ritvik system didn't completely replace the traditional system for all times and all situations, but in ISKCON Srila Prabhupada authorized the GBC to conduct a ritvik system and he NEVER EVER recalled the gayatri tapes or instructed the GBC that the ritvik system had to stop after his death.

 

Only Srila Prabhupada could establish a ritvik systen in ISKCON and only Srila Prabhupada could stop the ritvik system in ISKCON.

 

It's quite obvious that a GBC is not compatible with the role of a traditional guru and that the ritvik system is the only system that a GBC has any authority over.

 

The ISKCON system worked fine for years.

Then, as soon as Srila Prabhupada left, senior men conspired to take over ISKCON and take their position on the Vyasasan of ISKCON.

 

ISKCON has been a mess ever since.

[Laulyam]

<CENTER>TEXT 58

 

</CENTER><CENTER>

jive saksat nahi tate guru caittya-rupe

siksa-guru haya krsna-mahanta-svarupe

</CENTER><CENTER>SYNONYMS

 

</CENTER>jive--by the living entity; saksat--direct experience; nahi--there is not; tate--therefore; guru--the spiritual master; caittya-rupe--in the form of the Supersoul; siksa-guru--the spiritual master who instructs; haya--appears; krsna--Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; mahanta--the topmost devotee; sva-rupe--in the form of.

<CENTER>TRANSLATION

 

</CENTER>Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself.

<CENTER>PURPORT

 

</CENTER>It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.

 

 

<CENTER>TEXT 35

 

</CENTER><CENTER>

mantra-guru ara yata siksa-guru-gana

tanhara carana age kariye vandana

</CENTER><CENTER>SYNONYMS

 

</CENTER>mantra-guru--the initiating spiritual master; ara--and also; yata--as many (as there are); siksa-guru-gana--all the instructing spiritual masters; tanhara--of all of them; carana--unto the lotus feet; age--at first; kariye--I offer; vandana--respectful obeisances.

 

<CENTER>TRANSLATION

 

</CENTER>I first offer my respectful obeisances at the lotus feet of my initiating spiritual master and all my instructing spiritual masters.

 

<CENTER>PURPORT

 

</CENTER>Srila Jiva Gosvami, in his thesis Bhakti-sandarbha (202), has stated that uncontaminated devotional service is the objective of pure Vaisnavas and that one has to execute such service in the association of other devotees. By associating with devotees of Lord Krsna, one develops a sense of Krsna consciousness and thus becomes inclined toward the loving service of the Lord. This is the process of approaching the Supreme Lord by gradual appreciation in devotional service. If one desires unalloyed devotional service, one must associate with devotees of Sri Krsna, for by such association only can a conditioned soul achieve a taste for transcendental love and thus revive his eternal relationship with Godhead in a specific manifestation and in terms of the specific transcendental mellow (rasa) that one has eternally inherent in him.

 

If one develops love for Krsna by Krsna conscious activities, one can know the Supreme Absolute Truth, but he who tries to understand God simply by logical arguments will not succeed, nor will he get a taste for unalloyed devotion. The secret is that one must submissively listen to those who know perfectly the science of God, and one must begin the mode of service regulated by the preceptor. A devotee already attracted by the name, form, qualities, etc., of the Supreme Lord may be directed to his specific manner of devotional service; he need not waste time in approaching the Lord through logic. The expert spiritual master knows well how to engage his disciple's energy in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and thus he engages a devotee in a specific devotional service according to his special tendency. A devotee must have only one initiating spiritual master because in the scriptures acceptance of more than one is always forbidden. There is no limit, however, to the number of instructing spiritual masters one may accept. Generally a spiritual master who constantly instructs a disciple in spiritual science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on.

One should always remember that a person who is reluctant to accept a spiritual master and be initiated is sure to be baffled in his endeavor to go back to Godhead. One who is not properly initiated may present himself as a great devotee, but in fact he is sure to encounter many stumbling blocks on his path of progress toward spiritual realization, with the result that he must continue his term of material existence without relief. Such a helpless person is compared to a ship without a rudder, for such a ship can never reach its destination. It is imperative, therefore, that one accept a spiritual master if he at all desires to gain the favor of the Lord. The service of the spiritual master is essential. If there is no chance to serve the spiritual master directly, a devotee should serve him by remembering his instructions. There is no difference between the spiritual master's instructions and the spiritual master himself. In his absence, therefore, his words of direction should be the pride of the disciple. If one thinks that he is above consulting anyone else, including a spiritual master, he is at once an offender at the lotus feet of the Lord. Such an offender can never go back to Godhead. It is imperative that a serious person accept a bona fide spiritual master in terms of the sastric injunctions. Sri Jiva Gosvami advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions. One should simply try to find a genuinely qualified spiritual master for actual advancement in spiritual understanding.

[Laulyam]

<CENTER>TEXT 98

 

</CENTER><CENTER>

dui bhai hrdayera ksali' andhakara

dui bhagavata-sange karana saksatkara

</CENTER><CENTER>SYNONYMS

 

</CENTER>dui--two; bhai--brothers; hrdayera--of the heart; ksali'--purifying; andhakara--darkness; dui bhagavata--of the two bhagavatas; sange--by the association; karana--cause; saksat-kara--a meeting.

<CENTER>TRANSLATION

 

</CENTER>But these two brothers [Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityananda] dissipate the darkness of the inner core of the heart, and thus They help one meet the two kinds of bhagavatas [persons or things in relationship with the Personality of Godhead].

 

 

<HR>

 

<CENTER>TEXT 99

 

</CENTER><CENTER>

eka bhagavata bada----bhagavata-sastra

ara bhagavata----bhakta bhakti-rasa-patra

</CENTER><CENTER>SYNONYMS

 

</CENTER>eka--one; bhagavata--in relation to the Supreme Lord; bada--great; bhagavata-sastra--Srimad-Bhagavatam; ara--the other; bhagavata--in relation to the Supreme Lord; bhakta--pure devotee; bhakti-rasa--of the mellow of devotion; patra--the recipient.

<CENTER>TRANSLATION

 

</CENTER>One of the bhagavatas is the great scripture Srimad-Bhagavatam, and the other is the pure devotee absorbed in the mellows of loving devotion.

 

 

<HR>

 

<CENTER>TEXT 100

 

</CENTER><CENTER>

dui bhagavata dvara diya bhakti-rasa

tanhara hrdaye tanra preme haya vasa

</CENTER><CENTER>SYNONYMS

 

</CENTER>dui--two; bhagavata--the bhagavatas; dvara--by; diya--giving; bhakti-rasa--devotional inspiration; tanhara--of His devotee; hrdaye--in the heart; tanra--his; preme--by the love; haya--becomes; vasa--under control.

<CENTER>TRANSLATION

 

</CENTER>Through the actions of these two bhagavatas the Lord instills the mellows of transcendental loving service into the heart of a living being, and thus the Lord, in the heart of His devotee, comes under the control of the devotee's love.

[Laulyam]

TEXT 18

 

nasta-prayesv abhadresu

nityam bhagavata-sevaya

bhagavaty uttama-sloke

bhaktir bhavati naisthiki

 

SYNONYMS

 

nasta--destroyed; prayesu--almost to nil; abhadresu--all that is inauspicious; nityam--regularly; bhagavata--Srimad-Bhagavatam, or the pure devotee; sevaya--by serving; bhagavati--unto the Personality of Godhead; uttama--transcendental; sloke--prayers; bhaktih--loving service; bhavati--comes into being; naisthiki--irrevocable.

 

TRANSLATION

 

By regular attendance in classes on the Bhagavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.

 

PURPORT

 

Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhagavatas. There are two types of Bhagavatas, namely the book Bhagavata and the devotee Bhagavata. Both the Bhagavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhagavata is as good as the book Bhagavata because the devotee Bhagavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhagavata and the book Bhagavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhagavatas. Bhagavata book and person are identical.

The devotee Bhagavata is a direct representative of Bhagavan, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhagavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhagavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhagavata or the book Bhagavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are facts explained by Srila Naradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant's son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Srila Naradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhagavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhagavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhagavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhagavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhagavata, and the combination of these two Bhagavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on.

[Laulyam]

 

 

 

A Sadhu is Always Present

 

 

 

by Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja

 

 

 

 

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada always emphasized that he was eternally present in his books, instructions, tapes and letters. So when you say we should take association of a sadhu, can we do that through Srila Prabhupada’s books?

Gour Govinda Swami: If Prabhupada says he is there, then you try to see him, to associate with him and listen from him. Do you see Prabhupada? Do you hear from Prabhupada? Is he speaking to you?

Devotee: Through his books.

Gour Govind Swami: Through his books, yes. All sadhus speak through their books. Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Bhaktivinode Thakura, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarswati and Srila Prabhupada all say that they speak through their books. This is not a new thing. This is our vaisnava procedure. But you should see him. Can you see Bhaktivinoda Thakura? Can you see Jiva Goswami? You may say, “Oh I have read their books; I have their asociation.” That won’t help you. You cannot understand what they have said merely by reading their books. Your consciousness is very low, so you cannot understand their words. They are very, very merciful, but you should follow the proper path. If you are intelligent you will understand how they are still here, not only in the form of their books but also they are here. You should see them. Why are you thinking so foolishly? So many books were already there, so why has Srila Prabhupada said this? You are thinking, “We need only to read books. There is no need of associating with a sadhu who is physically present. Is there any sadhu? No, there is no sadhu at all.” Your motto is, “Seeing is believing.” You cannot see, so you cannot believe. Because you are a conditioned soul, your vision is defective. You cannot see a sadhu. Krishna is there, can you see Him? No, you cannot, because you are not endowed with proper vision. First develop the proper vision, and then you can see Krishna. Then you can see how a sadhu is there. It is not a fact that sadhus are not present. How is everything going on? How does the sun rise, the wind blow, and Indra give rain? All these things are going on. No sadhu? No Krishna? It’s nonsense, foolishness. We are so proud and puffed up. We are identifying ourself as the body, mind and false ego. We think we are very great. So we say, “Oh, there is no sadhu.” We are in the category of identification with the body and mind.We have not come to the beginning of the stage of purity. No!

Devotee: So we have to associate with a living sadhu? 1

Gour Govinda Swami: Definately. 2 There is always one there. But he is not a cheap person. Such a person is very rare. If you can get his mercy then you can see him. Otherwise, by your own effort and perceptoin, you cannot see him. No, no, no.

You always think that you are drasta, the seer, and that the sadhu is drsta, the one to be seen. Everyone is like this. They think they are the seers. But it is just the reverse. You are to be seen and they are the seer! Think this over very deeply. I think you cannot completely understand what I say. We always think that we are the seer and that they are to be seen, but this is not a fact. It is just the reverse. They are the seers and we are to be seen.

Devotee: How are we seen by sadhu? By our service?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, the sadhu is the seer. If he showers his mercy upon you, he sees you. If you receive that merciful glance then you are very fortuntae. However, you are in the category of bodily consciousness. How can you have it? Guru is the manifestation of the Supersoul, caitya-guru in the heart. He manifests a body and appears. He knows your heart.

Devotee: I don’t quite understand.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, try to understand. As I told you, just hear patiently. A new bhakta cannot understand it because it is a topic of the highest class. You are in pre-primary class, how can you understand? You are not even in the primary class. How can you understand this topic of the highest class? Just accept the bona fide authorities. That will help you. The teacher says, “Two plus two is four.” The primary student accepts it. If the teacher asks the child, “What is two plus two?” The child will reply, “Two plus two is four.” “ Why is two plus two four?” “My teacher says.” He will answer like this. That means he has accepted authority. This is the only principle in the beginning. How is two plus two four? Why not three or five? That will be explained in a higher mathematics class, not in the beginning. You have to have patience and get a promotion. My guru maharaja says in his purport that the beginning is purity of consciousness. First come to this beginning stage, then gradually other things will come up. You are not in the beginning stage, so how will the higher topics come up? This is a very, very subtle and very deep philosophy.

Putting full faith in the sadhu, you need only submissively hear --- sravanam, sravanam, sravanam. In that way you can get the mercy of that sadhu. That will help you. Only one thing is required, nothing else --- sravanam, sravana, sravanam. Just hear. Serve that sadhu, please him, hear submissively, surrender yourself at his lotus feet and submissively ask questions. Out of mercy the sadhu will impart this tattva jnana to you. This is the only process.

Unless you get association with a living sadhu, what can you do? Will you put some question to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada will answer you? This process is a living thing. It is always there, and it is always current. It is not that inquiry was done a certain way in the past and now things are done differently. No! It is an eternal process, pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.

---The Process of Inquiry, Chapter Six. Gopal Jiu Publications.

 

 

 

APPENDIX

 

1

 

 

 

TEXT 53

 

 

 

 

 

 

bhattera hrdaye drdha abhimana jani'

 

 

 

bhangi kari' mahaprabhu kahe eta vani

 

 

 

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

bhattera hrdaye--in the heart of Vallabha Bhatta; drdha--fixed; abhimana--pride; jani'--understanding; bhangi kari'--making a hint; mahaprabhu--Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu; kahe--spoke; eta vani--these words.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

Knowing that Vallabha Bhatta's heart was full of pride, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu spoke these words, hinting at how one can learn about devotional service.

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

Vallabha Bhatta was greatly proud of his knowledge in devotional service, and therefore he wanted to speak about Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu without understanding the Lord's position. The Lord therefore hinted in many ways that if Vallabha Bhatta wanted to know what devotional service actually is, he would have to learn from all the devotees He mentioned, beginning with Advaita Acarya, Lord Nityananda, Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and Ramananda Raya. As Svarupa Damodara has said, if one wants to learn the meaning of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one must take lessons from a realized soul. 2 One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaisnava. As Narottama dasa Thakura has confirmed, chadiya vaisnava-seva nistara payeche keba: one cannot be in a transcendental position unless one very faithfully serves a pure Vaisnava. One must accept a Vaisnava guru (adau gurv-asrayam), and then by questions and answers one should gradually learn what pure devotional service to Krsna is. That is called the parampara system.

Cc. Antya lila, Ch. 7. Txt 53

Translation and Purport by

His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

2

 

 

 

TEXT 131

 

 

 

 

"yaha, bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane

 

 

 

ekanta asraya kara caitanya-carane

 

 

 

 

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

yaha--just go; bhagavata pada--read Srimad-Bhagavatam; vaisnavera sthane--from a self-realized Vaisnava; ekanta asraya kara--fully surrender; caitanya-carane--at the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

"If you want to understand Srimad-Bhagavatam," he said, "you must approach a self-realized Vaisnava and hear from him. You can do this when you have completely taken shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

 

 

 

PURPORT

 

Herein Svarupa Damodara Gosvami instructs the poet from Bengal to hear Srimad-Bhagavatam from a pure Vaisnava and learn from him. In India especially, there is now a class of professional Bhagavatam readers whose means of livelihood is to go from village to village, town to town, reading Bhagavatam and collecting daksina, or rewards, in the form of money or goods, like umbrellas, cloth and fruit. Thus there is now a system of Bhagavata business, with recitations called Bhagavata-saptaha that continue for one week, although this is not mentioned in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Nowhere does Srimad-Bhagavatam say that the Bhagavatam should be heard for one week from professionals. Rather, Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.17) says: srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah. One should regularly hear Srimad-Bhagavatam from a self-realized Vaisnava. By such hearing, one becomes pious. Hrdy antahstho hy abhadrani vidhunoti suhrt-satam. As one thus hears the Bhagavatam regularly and sincerely, his heart is purified of all material contamination.

nasta-prayesv abhadresu

nityam bhagavata-sevaya

bhagavaty uttama-sloke

bhaktir bhavati naisthiki

"As one regularly hears the Bhagavatam or renders service unto the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is practically destroyed, and loving service unto the glorious Lord, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact." (Bhag. 1.2.18)

This is the proper process, but people are accustomed to being misled by professional Bhagavatam reciters. Therefore Svarupa Damodara Gosvami herein advises that one should not hear Srimad-Bhagavatam from professional reciters. Instead, one must hear and learn the Bhagavatam from a self-realized Vaisnava. Sometimes it is seen that when a Mayavadi sannyasi reads the Bhagavatam, flocks of men go to hear jugglery of words that cannot awaken their dormant love for Krsna. Sometimes people go to see professional dramas and offer food and money to the players, who are expert at collecting these offerings very nicely. The result is that the members of the audience remain in the same position of grham andha-kupam, family affection, and do not awaken their love for Krsna.

In the Bhagavatam (7.5.30), it is said, matir na krsne paratah svato va mitho 'bhipadyeta grha-vratanam: the grhavratas, those who are determined to continue following the materialistic way of life, will never awaken their dormant love of Krsna, fur they hear the Bhagavatam only to solidify their position in household life and to be happy in family affairs and sex. Condemning this process of hearing the Bhagavatam from professionals, Svarupa Damodara Gosvami says, yaha, bhagavata pada vaisnavera sthane: "To understand the Srimad-Bhagavatam, you must approach a self-realized Vaisnava." One should rigidly avoid hearing the Bhagavatam from a Mayavadi or other nondevotee who simply performs a grammatical jugglery of words to twist some meaning from the text, collect money from the innocent public, and thus keep people in darkness.

Svarupa Damodara Gosvami strictly prohibits the behavior of the materialistic so-called hearers of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Instead of awakening real love for Krsna, such hearers of the Bhagavatam become more and more attached to household affairs and sex life (yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham). One should hear Srimad-Bhagavatam from a person who has no connection with material activities, or, in other words, from a paramahamsa Vaisnava, one who has achieved the highest stage of sannyasa. This, of course, is not possible unless one takes shelter of the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The Srimad-Bhagavatam is understandable only for one who can follow in the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Cc. Antya lila, Ch. 5, Txt 131

Translation and Purport by

His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[Laulyam]

<CENTER>Questions and Answers

 

</CENTER>Devotee #1: Sabda-brahma is Krishna in sound vibration?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. One has to hear. It is not that, "All right, tapes are there, I'll hear the recorded tapes." Sabda-brahma will never descend.

Devotee #2: It doesn't descend through transmission of tape?

Gour Govinda Swami: No, no.

Devotee #2: Only when you are personally sitting there with a pure vaisnava?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Now in this material scientific age so many techniques are there. People, say, "No more teacher are required. We'll teach through television." Nonsense. Sabda-brahma will never descend.

Devotee #3: What if one is a disciple of a bonafide guru, then later on that guru stops his lila. What should one do?

Gour Govinda Swami: Lila is always there:

adyapiha sei lila kare gaura-raya,

kona kona bhagyavan dekhibare paya

 

(Cb. quoted in Bhaktivinode Thakur's Navadvipa Mahatmya Pramana-khanda)

Gauranga's pastimes are still going on. People say, "Oh Gauranga Mahaprabhu has disappeared." One who is very fortunate and has vision he can see how gaura-lila is going on.

Devotee #3: That means that guru is always there?

Gour Govinda Swami:Yes. He is always there. His lila is going on.

Devotee #3: I may think, "I have already taken the dust of the lotus feet of my guru. Now he is not here. So I don't need that dust anymore."

Gour Govinda Swami: Darsana is there. The guru is always there if you have the eye to see. If you are a sat-sisya you can always see how the guru is present.

Devotee #4: How can we see guru?

Gour Govinda Swami: Blind man! If you are endowed with that vision you can see.I never lost sight of my guru. I see my guru is always there. Therefore I cannot say,"nitya-lila-pravistha". It is so painful to me. No! He is here.

Devotee #4: Do you have to be a pure dovotee to see a pure devotee?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes! That vision is required. If you have no vision then you are a blind man.How can a blind man see? The object is there. What is required to see the object? The first thing is the eye. Next is light. You may be endowed with vision, but if there is no light, how can you see? Can you see in the darkness? Therefore two things are required, first vision and then light. Even if you are endowed with eyes, if there is no light then you can't see. What is that light? The enlightenment by the mercy potency. If you are devoid of that, how can you see?

Devotee #5: Anarthas are like clouds in front of the eye?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, Yes. Anarthas are like clouds covering the sun. The eye is covered.

Devotee #2: Can one see guru appearing in different forms, or is he coming in dreams?

Gour Govinda Swami: He may come in a dream. He has different forms also, just as Krishna has different forms. Krishna has so many manifestations. Therefor we have described in our book Sri Guru-vandana about samasti-guru and vyasti-guru.

Devotee #6: What are those kind of gurus?

Gour Govinda Swami: Guru Krsna-rupa hana sastrera pramane (Cc. adi-lila1.45} -- scripture describes that it is Krishna who appears as guru.

Krishna is one. Guru tattva is also one. Guru is one, but he appears in different, different, forms. That is samasti-guru. The particular forms such as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, Srila Bhakitisiddhanta, this person and that, this is vyasti-guru.

Devotee #3: When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati left, guru was still there?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.

Devotee #3: Guru is always present?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, always present.

Devotee #3: Because guru is non-different from Krishna we understand that to be a guru is not an easy thing. So why is it said that someone maybe on the level of kanistha or madhyama and be guru?

Gour Govinda Swami: All are gurus. There is kanistha-guru, madhyama-guru, uttama-gurus. Divisions are there. What you deserve you get. Krishna knows what you deserve so He makes an appropriate arrangement for you.

Devotee #7: Some devotees are not accepting guru now. They are saying, "I'll just accept sastra.

Gour Govinda Swami: How can you understand sastra?

Devotee #7: But we have seen, as in Russia, that some devotees have only gotten books and they are now chanting, worshiping the deity, and preaching.

Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot understand. In sastra, mantra is there. Nama is there. But unless it comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Sri Guru, your chanting will never be effective. The potency will never be there.

Devotee #7: But they say that smrti-sastra is coming from the lips of vaisnavas, so we are heaing smrti.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. This is how sastra manifests. When is comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Sri Guru, then it manifests. Though sastra is there, by itself it will never manifest to you. It's a question of manifestation.

Devotee #7: Other persons say that we can hear from the commentaries of the vaisnava-acaryas.

Gour Govinda Swami: For that reason it is said,

bhaktya bhagavatam grahyam

na buddhya na ca tikaya

Srimad Bhagavatam can only be understood by bhakti, not be dint of one's intelligence or by reading commentaries. (Cc.24.313)

You cannot understand Bhagavata by taking help of the tikas, commentaries. So many commentaries are there. One may think, "Yes, I am a scholar. It is all written in Sanskrit. I know the language so I can read and understand it." No! You can only understand Srimad Bhagavatam by bhakti. You cannot understand Bhagavata by dint of your material scholarship, learning, intelligence, or by taking the help of the commentaries. No, no. Hear from acarya and then you can develop bhakti. Unless you hear, how can you understand just by reading? You cannot understand. Grantha-avatara will never manifest to you. You will only see paper, and black and white. Nothing else.

Devotee #7: Then what is the meaning of the brhad-mrdanga-sankirtana? Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati has said that our kirtana is brhad-mrdanga-sankirtana, the printing press.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. That will inspire you. Just one book distributed spreads so far. First you read the book and then one friend says, "Oh, let me read it." Then he lets someone else read it. In this way it sprads so much. The sound of the mrdanga only goes rom here to there. But the brhad-mrdanga spreads so far. That will inspire you. You will think, "Who is the source? Let me go and see and hear from him."

Devotee #7: So first you hear and then if you read the same thing in the sastra...

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. It is only in Kali-yuga that books are required.. In other yugas there are no books. Just by hearing once they would never forget. But in this yuga, if I ask you to repeat what you have heard after the class, how much can you repeat? You will have already forgotton ninety to ninety-five percent. Only five percent you may be able to repeat. Books are required. Therefore Vyasadev came and wrote books. In other yugas there are no books. They will help you remember, "Oh yes. I have heard. Now it is here."

Devotee #7: In your book Sri Guru-vandana, you have described this flow of nectar as padma-madhu.You said that it comes to a devotee who is a sincere hearer. So someone who is very sincere to hear from guru and serves guru, he may get that nectar even though he may not have physical contact? Gour Govinda Swami: You should be greedy. Physical contact is required. You must hear directly, not just by listening to tapes. Sabda-brahma will never descend through a tape. One must hear from a physically present Sri Guru.

[mahak]

If not needed, then why, at such an advanced age and ill health, does he circle the globe 14 times in 10 years to PERSONALLY see to the SPECIFIC needs of INDIVIDUAL disciples.

Srila Prabhupada never teaches there is no need for the personal presence of a spiritual master. This is a demoniac teaching of revisionists who may say vani is better than vapu, but know of neither. The teachings he gives in regard to vani-vapu are all based on the same teaching that separation mellows with Krsna bring about deeper love for him than being in his actual presence.

Did a local brahmana appear before Druva, the five year old with powerful material desires? No, Narada Muni did. There were many fully qualified vaisnava acaryas present at King Pariksits sitting place, including Lord Vyasadeva, Maitreya Muni, Lord Parasurama, and others. Why wait for Sukadeva Goswami, they could answer the Kings question?

 

Srila Prabhupada teaches guru tattwa, which in a nutshell, goes like this. When one is sincere about going back home, back to Godhead, The Supreme Lord, being omnescient, knowing fully the heart of all sentient beings, appears before the person as his empowered representative. This external manifestation of Supersoul is thus INSPIRED to appear before the candidate for bhakti yoga to facillitate the devotees return to his natural state.

 

Srila Prabhupada is Guru. Why is he Guru? Because in his inspired appearance before the bhakti yogi, all the acaryas appear as well. Narada, Vyasa, Madhavendra Puri, Sri Chaitanya, the Six Goswamis, Narottama das, Bhaktivinode, Bhaktisiddhanta, all are there before the sincere devotee. There is no one missing.

 

The revisionists, the rtvik theorists, think Srila Prabhupada is not the spiritual master of any of his disciples. that no one carries Him in their heart, that they cannot be representative of him, the way he brought us bhaktisiddhanta. But there are, Srila Prabhupada succeeded, fully.

 

The problem is that people sit around at the feet of those who do not give them Srila Prabhupada, and this means that they are not linkede. But no priest is going to link such pretenders either, and if the priest is not linked, then there is no guru tattwa anyway.

 

Haribol, mahak

[Guruvani]

There are basic concepts and there are specific directions concerning the matter of how and why to accept a spiritual master.

 

The scriptures give us the basic concepts.

Srila Prabhupada gave ISKCON a specific example and specific guidance including specific instructions on how ISKCON was to practice the parampara system.

 

So, the instructions of one spiritual master might be different than the instructions of another spiritual master.

 

What ISKCON should be concerned with is not "tradition" or the example of the disintegrated Gaudiya Matha, but in the specific guidance and example that Srila Prabhupada gave.

 

ISKCON just can't write off the example and the structure that Srila Prabhupada put in place under the premise of "tradition".

 

ISKCON was never a "traditional" Gaudiya institution, so there is no reason to try and make it one after the passing of Srila Prabhupada.

 

ISKCON was a modern invention for the modern world.

 

It is futile to try and ever make ISKCON a "traditional" Gaudiya institution, because it can never be that.

 

It is a western society of Krishna consciousness devotees and doesn't need to fit into any stereotype that goes by name "tradition".

 

ISKCON is a modern sect of an ancient religion.

 

It cannot in the true sense ever be "traditional" and it is foolish to even propose that is can.

[theist]

Deserves it's own thread to be taken a part point for point. The authors deserve tar and feathers for spreading this apasiddantic trash and hijacking Prabhupada's Iskcon.

 

 

 

THE GBC LAWBOOK

 

 

GBC Law 6.2 - Qualifications of Gurus in ISKCON

6.2.1 - Mandatory qualifications.

 

10. Must have no loyalties that compete with or compromise his loyalty to Srila Prabhupada, to his teachings and to ISKCON.

 

6.4.1.1 A candidate for guru in ISKCON must first receive a majority vote of approval in a council composed of all the GBC secretaries of his current preaching area and at least ten (10) other senior devotees.

 

6.4.1.1.2 …obtainment of “no objection” letters…from the GBC temple presidents and other authorities (managerial).

 

 

6.4.1.3.1 A thorough description of the qualifications of the candidate, showing point by point how he CONFORMS to the GBC standards…

 

6.4.1.3.3 Then the chairman of the council sends a “nomination” to the GBC describing how the candidate conforms to the GBC standards, his description and the description of all who voted for him and how “senior” they are and explanations why they voted for him.

 

6.4.1.3.2 Then he is properly endorsed.

 

 

GBC Law 6.4.2 Vows of Guru

 

2. I accept the GBC as the ultimate managerial authority in ISKCON. I support the GBC system and will follow them.

 

3. I remain surrendered to the orders of his authorized representatives….

 

5. As a spiritual master I must always conform to ISKCON policies.

 

7. I shall teach all my disciples they are part of ISKCON.

 

GBC Law 6.4.3 Standards of Conduct for Gurus in ISKCON

 

6.4.3.2.1 He must respect the GBC as Srila Prabhupada’s chosen successor, the ultimate authority, and respect, serve and follow them….

 

6.4.3.2.2 He must act under their supervision….

 

6.4.3.3 [He must] not change residence without their approval….

 

6.4.3.4.5 [He must] avoid confrontation….

 

6.4.3.4.6 [He must] not undermine ISKCON authorities in any way….

 

6.4.3.4.2 He must always cooperate with them….

 

6.4.3.4.4 [He] must instruct his disciples to cooperate with them.

[Guest guest]

 

</CENTER>Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself.

<CENTER>PURPORT

 

</CENTER>It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caittya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.

 

 

Very nice quotes.

 

Srila Prabhupada is that person who "appears before us as a liberated devotee" (quote 1 above).

 

"The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul" (quote 2 above) is also Srila Prabhupada.

 

We use our ears to hear Srila Prabhupada, our eyes to read his books and see his beautiful form, our limbs to serve him. The fact that he is not physically present before us NOW does not render his diksa guru status redundant:

 

"As long as the spiritual master is physically present, the disciple should serve the physical body of the spiritual master, and when the spiritual master is no longer physically existing, the disciple should serve the instructions of the spiritual master."

(Srimad-Bhagavatam, 4.28.47, purport)

 

"Sometimes a diksa guru is not present always. Therefore one can take learning, instruction, from an advanced devotee. That is called the siksa guru."

(SP Bg. Lecture, 4/7/74, Honolulu)

 

"I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja.

(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

 

"I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute all spiritual duties in the matter of Krsna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles.

(SP Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)

"So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living."

(SP Lecture, 13/1/69)

 

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

[theist]

Following the link I see it leads to Nilacala dasi 's expose' on this bent document. Haven't read her article yet but I am sure I will agree with her. Still I am for mass public burnings of ridiculous "Lawbook" and the ashes sent to the the misguided authors. They can put the ashes in urns designed for the cremated ashes of relatives and keep them on their desks.