Is A Physically Present Spiritual Master Required?

[sanatan]

 

there are probably some spots and patches of ISKCON that are still nice.

 

USA seems to be suffering the worst - the homeland of KC in the western world.

 

Since, the USA is the original, it is harder to pass off a forgery here.

 

In third world countries that don't have a clue ISKCON is doing better,

 

ISKCON Dallas is an oasis, believe me. There are the everyday problems, but overall, a nicer group of devotees spanning the whole generational and national spectrum, I can't imagine. Awesome restaurant, too.

 

We're fortunate to live a few miles away, and will be moving much closer in the next year, if we can ever get this *%$#@# house started.

[krsna]

 

kii jaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

[Guruvani]

 

ISKCON Dallas is an oasis, believe me. There are the everyday problems, but overall, a nicer group of devotees spanning the whole generational and national spectrum, I can't imagine. Awesome restaurant, too.

 

We're fortunate to live a few miles away, and will be moving much closer in the next year, if we can ever get this *%$#@# house started.

sounds nice.

 

I am kind of partial to this area here around Alachua, Florida where there is the largest settlement of devotees in the USA.

they have a beautiful temple and great festivals.

 

there are devotees of all sorts here including quite a few old Prabhupada disciples, disciples of ISKCON gurus and disciples of Narayana Maharaja.

 

around the temple everybody keeps their politics to themselves and just comes for the program or the festivals.

 

talk about an Oasis?

 

This place is the best if you ask me, but there are many that have come and gone.

 

For devotees who like their independence this place is nice.

 

If you depend on a real tight, intimate group then this place might turn you off.

We can be a little impersonal around here, but that also allows for a mixing of all sort of devotees without fanatic extremism that you find in many ISKCON temples.

 

The GBC has no control over this community.

The devotees in the community control things and I think it works quite nicely.

I think that is the way all ISKCON temples should be.

 

http://temple.krishna.com/alachua/

[Guruvani]

oops

[sanatan]

 

sounds nice.

 

I am kind of partial to this area here around Alachua, Florida where there is the largest settlement of devotees in the USA.

they have a beautiful temple and great festivals.

 

there are devotees of all sorts here including quite a few old Prabhupada disciples, disciples of ISKCON gurus and disciples of Narayana Maharaja.

 

around the temple everybody keeps their politics to themselves and just comes for the program or the festivals.

 

talk about an Oasis?

 

This place is the best if you ask me, but there are many that have come and gone.

 

For devotees who like their independence this place is nice.

 

If you depend on a real tight, intimate group then this place might turn you off.

We can be a little impersonal around here, but that also allows for a mixing of all sort of devotees without fanatic extremism that you find in many ISKCON temples.

 

The GBC has no control over this community.

The devotees in the community control things and I think it works quite nicely.

I think that is the way all ISKCON temples should be.

 

http://temple.krishna.com/alachua/

 

I can think right off hand of three devotees & family who moved to Alachua from Dallas and CA, probably others I don't recall and others I've lost track of. I've heard its a great place.

 

Dallas is a trad ISKCON/GBC affiliated community, but is also very largely devoid of the fanatic extremism that you speak of, as well as somewhat Hinduized now, with a very big Indian congregation.

 

The whole spectrum is here, from 35-year-plus Srila Prabhupada disciples to new ashram bhaktas and bhaktins. One of the managing devotees told me that there are disciples of 20+ gurus in addition to SP that live in the community or are associated to some degree.

 

People pretty much do their own thing here as well...never has been a whole lot in the way of peer pressure and it's big enough to where the faces I don't know far outnumber the ones I do...tight intimacy occurs in smaller friendship groups and one on one friendships. I'm an early-to-mid ISKCON era guy (nearing 58) and my best friend is 20+ years younger and the disciple of a blooped second-gen ISKCON guru.

 

I've never lived in a temple or community except for very short stays in the early 70's. My wife greatly appreciates Krishna Consciousness but is more New Age/independent universalist in her outlook...we're more longtime congregational+ members here.

 

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

[Guruvani]

 

I can think right off hand of three devotees & family who moved to Alachua from Dallas and CA, probably others I don't recall and others I've lost track of. I've heard its a great place.

 

Dallas is a trad ISKCON/GBC affiliated community, but is also very largely devoid of the fanatic extremism that you speak of, as well as somewhat Hinduized now, with a very big Indian congregation.

 

The whole spectrum is here, from 35-year-plus Srila Prabhupada disciples to new ashram bhaktas and bhaktins. One of the managing devotees told me that there are disciples of 20+ gurus in addition to SP that live in the community or are associated to some degree.

 

People pretty much do their own thing here as well...never has been a whole lot in the way of peer pressure and it's big enough to where the faces I don't know far outnumber the ones I do...tight intimacy occurs in smaller friendship groups and one on one friendships. I'm an early-to-mid ISKCON era guy (nearing 58) and my best friend is 20+ years younger and the disciple of a blooped second-gen ISKCON guru.

 

I've never lived in a temple or community except for very short stays in the early 70's. My wife greatly appreciates Krishna Consciousness but is more New Age/independent universalist in her outlook...we're more longtime congregational+ members here.

 

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I spent a few days at the Dallas temple in the late 70's when Tamal Krishna Maharaja had the farm in Oklahoma.

 

Sivarama Maharaja was the TP at the farm and I was the cook for a small ashram of austere brahmacaries under Sivarama Maharaja.

 

Sivarama Maharaja fell out with Tamal Krishna Maharaja and left.

I left right after that and ended up back at the Chicago temple.

[sanatan]

 

I spent a few days at the Dallas temple in the late 70's when Tamal Krishna Maharaja had the farm in Oklahoma.

 

Sivarama Maharaja was the TP at the farm and I was the cook for a small ashram of austere brahmacaries under Sivarama Maharaja.

 

Sivarama Maharaja fell out with Tamal Krishna Maharaja and left.

I left right after that and ended up back at the Chicago temple.

 

My early ISKCON time was in 1971, then essentially little contact until 1985.

 

TKG was headquartered in Dallas at that time; farm had been sold by then.

 

I remember all the years here with TKG as good ones; I took much siksha from him and was an aspiring disciple for some time. I was very saddened at his passing.

 

The face of the Dallas community has changed considerably since his direct personal influence is no longer present, but his disciples are still a close group...I'm treated as a Godbrother though never took initiation.

[krsna]

The Guru gives so much in the form of instruction, the real problem is with us in how much we can all assimalate the Guru-vani in the present context of our conditioning under the 3 modes of nature and 4 defects of conditional life...

 

"So if you can satisfy them intellectually and answer all their questions, that will be your success. All the answers are there in Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita As It Is, and Teachings of Lord Caitanya. You will simply have to study these books to find out the answers. Anyway, I think Japan will be good field in future for spreading our Krishna Consciousness Movement. You are tested devotees; please handle the matter carefully, and Krishna will give you all help." (69-10-03 Letter: Bali-mardana, Sudama)

 

"If one simply regularly chants and follows the rules and regulative principles all questions of philosophy will be answered by Krsna from within and all doubt will be cleared also in this way. And the same answers are there again in our books like Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srimad-Bhagavatam, etc. So please see that all the initiated devotees stick rigidly to their daily chanting and regulative living in devotional service. This is most important." (70-02-14 Letter: Madhudvisa)

 

"I am very glad to know that you are reading our literatures and you are very thoughtful about them. I am always happy to answer your questions, but you should practice to get the answers from your husband and try to find them out by reading further in our books. All questions will be clarified if you simply read our books very thoroughly and follow the simple process of devotional service as we have given it to chant regularly and rigidly observe the rules and regulations. This is our principle that the spiritual science becomes revealed to the devotee from within the heart according to the degree of his surrender to Krsna. You are a very hopeful student and intelligent devotee, so you continue to pursue your devotional activities patiently and Krsna will open your path of Krsna consciousness so you will progress more and more." (70-07-25 Letter: Ekayani)

 

"So far you being philosophically-minded, that I can see and appreciate, but in future I think you can ask any questions you may have in these matters to one of the Swamis or to your GBC man. I have given them the answers to all such questions, so they can help you. I am an old man now, and my interests are turning to philosophy and translation. If you help me by relieving me from this administrative work, that will free me to give you so many more fine books from Vedic literature and from our own devotional line. So kindly assist me in this way. Actually, if you simply serve in a surrendered attitude, and go on chanting regularly, the answers to everything will come out automatically: "To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me." (X, 10). (72-02-27 Letter: Mohanananda)

"If you read all our books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, and others, you will get all the answers to your questions. Still I shall be very glad to answer besides that." (74-07-16 Letter: Alfred Ford)

[suchandra]

 

"If you read all our books, Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, and others, you will get all the answers to your questions. Still I shall be very glad to answer besides that." (74-07-16 Letter: Alfred Ford)

Good points! Offering to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja (1874-1937), about the importance of surrendering to the real acarya:

 

“To receive transcendental knowledge, we must completely surrender ourselves to the real acarya in a spirit of ardent inquiry and service. Actual performance of service to the Absolute under the guidance of the acarya is the only vehicle by which we can assimilate transcendental knowledge. Today’s meeting for offering our humble services and homage to the feet of the acaryadeva will enable us to be favored with the capacity of assimilating the transcendental knowledge so kindly transmitted by him to all persons without distinction.”

 

Sri Vyas Puja offering of Srila Prabhupada to Srila Saraswati Thakura in February l936 at the Sri Gaudiya Math, Bombay

[krsna]

His Divine Grace Çréla Bhaktisiddhänta

Sarasvaté Gosvämé Prabhupäda's

Appearance Day, Lecture

--

Atlanta, March 2, 1975

750302BA.ATL

His Divine Grace Çréla Bhaktisiddhänta

Sarasvaté Gosvämé Prabhupäda's

Appearance Day, Lecture

—

Atlanta, March 2, 1975

 

Prabhupäda: Today is the most auspicious day, 101 years ago, Srila Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvati Thäkura, he appeared on this day. So Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvaté Öhäkura is gaura-sakti. Gaura-sakti means empowered, empowered by Sri Caitanya Mahäprabhu. Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu, He wanted His mission to be broadcast ...all over the world. He desired:

påthivéte äche yata nagarädi-gräma

sarvatra pracära haibe mora näma

Påthivéte, all over the world, as many towns and villages are there, Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu predicted that His mission will spread. This prediction was made by Caitanya Mahäprabhu personally five hundred years ago.

So perhaps my Guru Mahäräja, Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvaté Öhäkura, attempted to fulfill the desire of Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu. And sometimes in the year 1918, he was brahmacäré, and Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura, his material father, he wanted... Actually, he wanted, Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura... Of course, everyone wanted. But he wrote one small book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Teachings and Precepts of Lord Caitanya, in 1896. And he presented that book to the McGill University in Canada. And he very much desired that the foreigners, especially Americans, would join this movement. That was his desire in 1896. And then, in 1918, my Guru Mahäräja started with this mission one institution known as Gauòéya Math. Perhaps some of you know the name, Gauòéya Math. And he was trying to spread this message of Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu, and by chance or by prediction, as you think, I was taken to Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvaté Öhäkura by one of my friends. I did not want to go there, but he forcibly took me there. Yes. And he ordered me that "You preach the cult of Caitanya Mahäprabhu in English language. This is very much essential." So on the first meeting he told me like that. That was my first meeting with him. So at that time I was in favor of Gandhi's movement. So I said that "We are not independent—subjugated. Who will hear about our message?" So Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvaté Öhäkura refuted my argument. I was very much pleased. I had so many talks. But I was very much pleased to be defeated, that "This so-called nationalism or any ism, they are all temporary. Real need is the self-realization."

So I was convinced. But at that time, although he wanted me to immediately join him and spread this movement, so at that time I was a married man, young man. I was married in 1918. And I got a son also at that time, 1921. And in 1922 I met him. At that time I was manager in a big chemical factory. So I thought that "I am married man. I have got so many responsibilities. How I can join immediately? It is not my duty." Of course, that was my mistake. I should have joined immediately. (laughter) I should have taken the opportunity immediately. But mäyä is there. So I thought like that. So that's a long history. Then in 1954, no, not 1954, 1968, when I was fifty-four years old... Nineteen fifty-four, yes. Nineteen fifty-four, I was at that time fifty-eight years. So I left home, and I was living alone. Then, 1958, I took sannyäsa, and then I decided to take up the responsibility of my Guru Mahäräja. I thought that "My other Godbrothers are trying, so I am not capable to do it. They are better situated." But somehow or other, they could not do very much, appreciative activities, in this connection.

So when I was seventy years old I decided, "Now I must do and execute the order of my Guru Mahäräja. And thus this movement was started in 1965 from New York. And I was not very much hopeful because it is very difficult task, just opposite the European and Western culture. I came... When I first came, I had no money. So I got a free passage through some Indian steam navigation company. So I came by ship. So when I was on the ship at Boston port, Commonwealth port, I was thinking that "I have come here. I do not know what is the purpose because how the people will accept this movement? They are differently educated, and as soon as I will say, 'So, my dear sir, you have to give up meat-eating and illicit sex and no intoxication and gambling,' they will say, 'Please go home.' " (laughter) Because that was the experience of one of my Godbrother. He went to London, and he had the opportunity to talk with one big man, Marquis of Zetland. Marquis of Zetland was formerly governor of Bengal. At that time I was student. He was Scotsman, and I was student of the Scottish Churches' College. So he came to see our college, and he was standing in front of me in the second-year class. So he was very nice, good gentleman. So he proposed to my Godbrother, "Whether you can make me a brähmaëa?" So my Godbrother proposed, "Yes, we can make anyone brähmaëa provided you follow this principle: no illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling." So that Lord Zetland immediately replied, "Impossible." (laughter) So I was thinking that "I will propose something which is impossible. Anyway, let me try."

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupäda: So now, by the grace of Kåñëa and Caitanya Mahäprabhu and in the presence of my Guru Mahäräja, you are so nice boys and girls. So in front of Caitanya Mahäprabhu you are chanting Hare Kåñëa mantra, and you are taking part in it very seriously. So my Guru Mahäräja will be very, very much pleased upon you and bless you with all benefits.

So he wanted this, and he is not... It is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding. Even ordinary living being, he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamäne çarére [bg. 2.20]. And what to speak of such exalted, authorized personality like Bhaktisiddhänta. He is seeing. I never feel that I am alone. Of course, when I came to your country without any friend, without any means... Practically, just like a vagabond I came. But I had full faith that "My Guru Mahäräja is with me." I never lost this faith, and that is fact. There are two words, väni and vapuù. Väné means words, and vapuù means this physical body. So väni is more important than the vapuù. Vapuù will be finished. This is material body. It will be finished. That is the nature. But if we keep to the väni, to the words of spiritual master, then we remain very fixed up. It doesn't matter. Just like Bhagavad-gétä. It was spoken five thousand years ago. But if you keep to the words of Kåñëa, then it is always fresh and guiding. Not that because Arjuna personally listened to Kåñëa about the instruction of Bhagavad-gétä, therefore he knew it. That is not the fact. If you accept Bhagavad-gétä as it is, then you should know that Kåñëa is present before you in His words in the Bhagavad-gétä. This is called spiritual realization. It is not mundane historical incidences.

[mahak]

Haribol. Really, this issue is quite simple. In our line, the emphasis is disciple, thus parampara, sampradaya, all these words, refer to disciplic succession.

 

Why do we choose to hear from Srila Prabhupada? Is it because he is a wizard? An ascended master? A god, a pope? No, speaking for myself here, I hear Srila Prabhupada only because he is a disciple. At the time I made this choice, there were plenty of gods and gurus around, plenty of masters, from timothy leary, meher baba, bubba ramm dass, a new god arriving weekly to the hippie haunts with their advertizing campaigns and entourage. But when they spoke (meher baba knew this, thus he kept his mouth shut), they were exposed as the fools they were. But Srila Prabhupada never worries about this, because he never speaks on his own behalf, he is DISCIPLE of Srila Vyasadeva.

 

So, the simple answer is that anyone who is DISCIPLE is GURU. The day one becomes a DISCIPLE is the day the same person becomes GURU. And such a person is quite worthy to hear from and take the lifeline that leads through parampara back home, back to Godhead.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[cbrahma]

 

Haribol. Really, this issue is quite simple. In our line, the emphasis is disciple, thus parampara, sampradaya, all these words, refer to disciplic succession.

 

Why do we choose to hear from Srila Prabhupada? Is it because he is a wizard? An ascended master? A god, a pope? No, speaking for myself here, I hear Srila Prabhupada only because he is a disciple. At the time I made this choice, there were plenty of gods and gurus around, plenty of masters, from timothy leary, meher baba, bubba ramm dass, a new god arriving weekly to the hippie haunts with their advertizing campaigns and entourage. But when they spoke (meher baba knew this, thus he kept his mouth shut), they were exposed as the fools they were. But Srila Prabhupada never worries about this, because he never speaks on his own behalf, he is DISCIPLE of Srila Vyasadeva.

 

So, the simple answer is that anyone who is DISCIPLE is GURU. The day one becomes a DISCIPLE is the day the same person becomes GURU. And such a person is quite worthy to hear from and take the lifeline that leads through parampara back home, back to Godhead.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

So guru is not a post? A job one can apply for to the GBC? I for one cannot accept a disciple/guru who has to answer to a governing body. The only authorities a bona fide guru should have to answer to are his guru and Krsna. Whatever superior authority an acarya has to answer to, then that authority is acarya. Why don't we just surrender to the GBC and get initiated by that mysterious group, eliminate the middle man and be done with it. Of course this is preposterous. If the GBC understands the bhakti-marga even slightly then they should be the first to admit it.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

It depends!!!

 

In the beginning a child NEEDS his mother to teach him how to eat, how to walk and how to talk, and as he grows up, the need becomes less and less. When he becomes an adult, then he could live on his own without the help of his mother.

 

You dicide!!!

Well, this may be true, but, once you find yourself as an adult having children, suddenly you find yourself needing your mother a whole lot more!!

 

After all, who would you trust to babysit the kids more than your Mom!!

 

As a certified "Momma's Boy", I also have some interest in repaying my mother for all of the kindness and sacrifices she's made for me over the years!!!!!

 

My attitude is not: I'm a big boy now, so see-ya-later Mom! Have fun eating the rice-pudding in your old-folks' home!! I'll be sure to send a fruit-cake at Christmas!!!

[krsna]

 

Haribol. Really, this issue is quite simple. In our line, the emphasis is disciple, thus parampara, sampradaya, all these words, refer to disciplic succession.

 

Why do we choose to hear from Srila Prabhupada? Is it because he is a wizard? An ascended master? A god, a pope? No, speaking for myself here, I hear Srila Prabhupada only because he is a disciple. At the time I made this choice, there were plenty of gods and gurus around, plenty of masters, from timothy leary, meher baba, bubba ramm dass, a new god arriving weekly to the hippie haunts with their advertizing campaigns and entourage. But when they spoke (meher baba knew this, thus he kept his mouth shut), they were exposed as the fools they were. But Srila Prabhupada never worries about this, because he never speaks on his own behalf, he is DISCIPLE of Srila Vyasadeva.

 

So, the simple answer is that anyone who is DISCIPLE is GURU. The day one becomes a DISCIPLE is the day the same person becomes GURU. And such a person is quite worthy to hear from and take the lifeline that leads through parampara back home, back to Godhead.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

What a wonderful thought: A sad-guru is eternally a sat-sisya. And every sat-sisya is a sad-guru. This is the basis of our whole parampara, our sampradaya rests on this guru-disciple principle.

[dattaswami]

 

Is A Physically Present Spiritual Master Required?

 

B

 

Yes! very much required the reason is;

 

When you read the scriptures, which are the discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If the original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you are studying a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts and you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations. Suppose you are studying the same course in a college and the lecturer is explaining in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then and there and you will surely get the correct interpretation at the correct moment. The clarification is important at the correct moment because without clarification the latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations and past scriptures. In this light alone, Jesus modified all the Old Testament and gave the correct interpretation as and when people asked Him questions and doubts. If Jesus is not in the present generation, He must be blamed for being partial towards that generation alone. However God is impartial and therefore comes in every generation.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All the divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings. The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. Therefore the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.

The number of elementary school students are always many and the number of elementary school teachers are also many. As you rise in the level, the number of students and the number of professors become lesser and lesser. Therefore you should not aspire for a large number of followers. For the direct human incarnation, there will be only a very few deserving devotees of such a top level. But such top devotees are spread here and there all over the world. Therefore there is a necessity for propagating the top most divine knowledge of the top most human incarnation, all over the world. But the number of followers will not be high but will be the very least. Jesus said that His path is very narrow and that only very few people travel on it. Lord Krishna has told in the Gita that only one in millions can perfectly understand Him (Kashchit Mam Vetti…). Therefore the aim of the topmost human incarnation is not to have a large number of followers, since it is impossible. The aim is only to see that the topmost knowledge reaches the few deserving devotees, who are spread all over the world here and there. If you wish to have a large number of followers, then divine knowledge has to be adulterated with ignorance. The naked truth should not be exposed in such a case. Diamonds are always in few in number whereas gravel stones are many.

The lower level devotees and the lower level school teachers should not be criticized. The levels of school, college and university are obviously required due to the existence of human beings in the corresponding levels. Therefore you should not criticize the students in schools and colleges. Today you are a student of a university. But one day you were in the school and in the college. Without the guidance of the school teacher and the college lecturer you could not have entered the university. The direct human incarnation of the Lord is the topmost professor, who has a few post graduate and research level students. God, being the head of the university level in spirituality, the schools and colleges are affiliated to the university and work under His leadership. It is the huge system of divine preachers. The school teachers and the college lecturers are working under the guidance and will of that Professor alone. The system is split to suit the various levels but there is no split in the preachers. The whole system of divine preachers is perfectly working due to the grace of that Supreme Preacher. There is no split in the preachers. Mixing up ignorance with knowledge is inevitable and is done according to the level of the students.

There is only one Supreme Preacher in a generation and He will be covering all the preachers and religions under the concept of Universal Spirituality. Some lower preachers may oppose this concept and it is not the fault of those preachers. Since the students of some lower levels do not agree to this concept, those preachers have to proceed according to their psychology. The supreme preacher knows this fact and only smiles, if any preacher of a lower level opposes this concept. It is by the internal wish of Supreme Preacher only, that preacher opposes Him so that he can have a grip on his students who are of a lower level and do not like this concept. It is a very long journey to transform the entire Universe and make it realize this concept of Universal Spirituality. But one day or other this divine goal will be achieved and the entire world will be like one family with one Divine Father. The various cultures and religions need not disappear. But the innermost single continuous thread of the garland of gems with various colors will be realized by every human being of this universe. Such a state is called as WORLD PEACE.

Please remember that the divine preachers in this entire Universe are not at all split. They appear as if they are split in order to have a grip on their corresponding students, who are really split. All these divine preachers are connected by their innermost souls and are working by the grace of that Supreme preacher, who is the Lord in human form. The difference in the preachers is only apparent to satisfy the different psychologies of the followers. One preacher may criticize another preacher in order to satisfy his followers but all these divine preachers are internally united and are working on the single program of transforming this entire world to realize the Universal Spirituality, which is the Absolute Truth like the one Absolute God.

All the original preachers like <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad etc. are brilliant diamonds and all their followers are like black pieces of charcoal. The diamond and charcoal are made of the same carbon atoms. Similarly the preacher and the follower are human beings. In the diamond there is a regular crystal structure. The charcoal is amorphous, without any crystal structure. Thus the correct logical interpretation makes the scripture shine like a brilliant diamond. The same scripture without regular logical interpretation becomes a black charcoal.

[cbrahma]

So what in your long disertation proves that the spiritual master has to be physically present?

[dattaswami]

 

So what in your long disertation proves that the spiritual master has to be physically present?

 

Yes. Lord come in human form in every human generation to preach and uplift the human soul known as human incarnation or satguru. The right knowledge is essential because the spiritual field is corrupted by misinterpretation. Lord is the auther of all the scriptures of the world. Such God comes down in human form to give the correct interpretation. Only through right knowledge you will develope devotion on Him. By devotion you can serve Him. Lord is here right now in human form you have to find Him out through His infinite true divine knowledge. There is a huge difference between a mere guru and satguru (Lord in human form)

 

In the word Satguru, the prefix ‘Sat’ means truth. A Satguru always preaches the truth. Truth is always harsh and is not liked by several people. Therefore a Satguru will have only very few disciples. A Satguru says that the path with thorns will lead to the Lord. People will not like this. He also says that the path with flowers leads to hell. People will not be happy with this preaching. A Guru preaches which several people like. The Guru says that the nature of the goal will be the nature of the path. Since the Lord is full of bliss the path also must be with flowers giving happiness. Since the hell is giving you lot of pain the path with thorns which also gives lot of pain must lead to the hell. This argument is very attractive.

Several people will like this and will become the followers of Guru. Several people will praise him and give lot of Guru Dakshina because his argument is pleasant. But a Satguru says that the path with thorns alone will lead to the Lord because in this path you have to cut the bonds with your family and with your hard-earned money. Sacrifice gives lot of pain and sacrifice alone will lead to the Lord. The path with flowers strengthens your bonds with your family and money which gives you lot of happiness. Such path leads to the hell.

Several people do not like such argument and so only one or two persons who can realize the truth will become His disciples. A Satguru will never worry about the number of the disciples and about the quantity of Guru Dakshina. Even if a single disciple is available He is happy. Majority always goes to hell. Only one in millions like Sankara, Vivekananda, Meera can reach the Lord. Diamonds are always in minority. Gravel stones are in majority. Therefore a Satguru will be only one in thousands of Gurus and a true disciple will be only one in millions of disciples.

When you are doing prayers you are praising the Lord as a poet praises a king. The foolish king may give some gift to the poet. But the omniscient Lord can never be fooled by such praise. When you sing songs are chant the name of the Lord or express the feelings of devotion by shedding tears or by meditation you are getting the happiness and peace immediately. You have achieved the fruit. The Lord will not give another fruit for these things. When you are pained and loose peace by cutting the family bonds and by sacrificing your work and wealth to the Lord, then only the Lord will give the real gift to you. When you are working in the field for the owner, doing the work pains you. The owner will pay money for your work. Without doing the work, if you are simply chanting the name of the owner or sing songs on the owner, a wise owner will never give any gift.

You have already derived the bliss and peace by eating the sweet in your hand. Why should I pay you when you are eating the sweet? When you sacrifice the sweet to me I shall pay you. A Satguru teaches only the sacrifice which is the path with thorns leading to the Lord. Veda says that sacrifice alone can bring the grace of the Lord (Dhanene Tyagenaike). If you ask the payment by prayers and devotion the Lord will pay you from your pocket only. He will bring the results of good deeds from your future life cycles and present them to you. But when you are sacrificing the sweet to the Lord in spite of your hunger and your heart pain, the Lord rewards you from His pocket. Therefore the true path leading to the Lord can be identified by loss of peace, mental worry, pain etc., The path to the hell is identified by peace, happiness, benefit etc., Satguru leads you to the Lord and Guru leads you to the hell.

[sanatan]

 

Haribol. Really... I hear Srila Prabhupada only because he is a disciple. At the time I made this choice, there were plenty of gods and gurus around, plenty of masters, from timothy leary, meher baba, bubba ramm dass, a new god arriving weekly to the hippie haunts with their advertizing campaigns and entourage. But when they spoke (meher baba knew this, thus he kept his mouth shut), they were exposed as the fools they were. But Srila Prabhupada never worries about this, because he never speaks on his own behalf, he is DISCIPLE of Srila Vyasadeva.

 

.....Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

I know this was a serious post but I got a huge laugh...bubba ramm dass ...and he was probably the best of that old 60's guru invasion. I found him quite inspiring at the time and still respect him.

 

The idea of SP being in the eternal continuum of a bonafide disciplic succession and the obvious genuineness of the whole early ISKCON thing when compared to the other guys got through even to this then-disabled brain.

 

I'd been previously burned by association with a bogus guru and my health actually harmed by yogic practices he taught...I was too scared to make the jump and join up with Visnujana Maharaja & Co.

 

I had also become a pretty bad drunk between those two points as well, and was quite befuddled most of the time.

 

But, in terms of any further "searching" on a philosophical level, it all ended then and there.

[mahak]

And while I dont follow ramm dass, I still respect him, too. Be Here Now probably attracted a great many devotees to Krsna, the pictures were very nice. I had a coupla albums as well, the classic Dr Leary production, "A Cid Symphony", was a breathtaking trible record album, wish I still had it. And Ramm Dass' guru, Bhagavan das, had a great bhajan album, his Krsna Keshava Pahi mam was sure a well done effort. But you had to do a greasy hash oiler to appreciate. Or maybe them canned mushrooms from Peru.

 

Nah, I never reject my past, it safely marched off into history.

 

Yeah, I hear you, it was right about this time when I saw a devotee next to a broken down rig on the freeway, hitchhiking. I gave him a ride, turned out to be Visnu Jnana brahmacari, and he set me straight about dem dudes, invited me to spend some time next door, and I did, and here I am.

 

(BTW Next door refers to the original laguna temple on woodland drive, next door to leary's commune house for the brotherhood of eternal light, who brought ya orange sunshine, the snowman (as in Falcon and the Snowman, google it if I lost ya))

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[krsna]

What do you want? According to your desire you will get the appropriate guru, sanga and seva. So be careful what you desire as you might just get that thing which you hanker for in your heart of hearts. Will you be so mad as to desire pure love of KRSNA? Or the association of a pure unalloyed devotee of KRSNA? Who will be so crazy as to want the 5th goal of life-KRSNA prema in this very lifetime?

 

 

"The destiny of each individual soul is thus made or marred by himself. As spiritual beings, all individual souls possess the faculty of free will divinely bestowed upon them. They can abuse this gift of God or they can make the best use of it. The Supreme Lord does not interfere with His gift, viz., the soul’s freedom of choice."

[krsna]

From Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada:

 

"For the genuine devotee of a spiritual master, the genuine disciple, the spiritual master is his entire life, his ideal. His vow is to serve the spiritual master, and though he adores both Krishna and the spiritual master equally, he gives special preference to his spiritual master. A genuine disciple is not weak, but is empowered by the power of the guru's mercy. The spiritual master's blessings and the spiritual master's service are his hope and his strength.

 

A genuine disciple does not disobey the order of the spiritual master even at the risk of his life. Whatever responsibilities the spiritual master mercifully gives him, he does with all his heart. Thus he receives the guru's full blessings."

[krsna]

72-08-29.Gurudasa Letter:

Please accept my blessings.

 

I am in due receipt of your letter dated August 23, 1972, and I have noted the contents carefully.

 

Do not be depressed. ALL ALONG MY GODBROTHERS GAVE ME ONLY DEPRESSION, REPRESSION, COMPRESSION--BUT I CONTINUED STRONG IN MY DUTY.

[krsna]

 

By

His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur Mahasaya

 

ohe! vaisnaba thakura, doyara sagara,

e dase koruna kori’

diya pada-chaya, sodho he amaya,

tomara carana dhori

 

O saintly Vaishnava, ocean of mercy, be merciful to me, your servant.

 

Give me shelter at your feet,

free me from conceit,

to follow you is all that I shall want.

 

chaya bega domi, chaya dosa sodhi

chaya guna deho’ dase

chaya sat-sanga, deho’ he amare,

boshechi sangera ase

 

Teach me self control,

rectify my wrongs,

bless me with the best of qualities.

Let me always be in the company of the Lord’s pure devotees.

 

ekaki amara, nahi paya bala,

hari-nama-sankirtane

tumi krpa kori: sraddha-bindu diya,

deho’ krsna-nama-dhane

 

Alone I lack the strength,

hardly have I hope,

to chant with love Lord Krishna’s holy name.

 

Grant me thus your grace,

a fragment of your faith,

so I shall that greatest treasure gain.

 

krsna se tomara, krsna dite paro,

tomara sakati ache

ami to’ kangala, ‘krsna ‘krsna ‘boli’,

dhai tava pache pache

 

The Lord belongs to you,

held ever in your heart,

your blessing can bestow Him upon me.

 

Calling Krishna Krishna,

I follow at your feet,

crying for your causeless mercy.

[krsna]

<CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>From The Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa was composed by Sanatana Goswami under the direction of Supreme Lord Sri Caitanya, the bestower of religious principles for this age of Kali. </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The First Vilasa: Text 74 </CENTER>

 

 

The

Mantra-muktavali

instructs,

 

 

"The

guru

and aspiring disciple should live together for a year. They should examine each other to find out their nature, character and compatibility. There is no other way of achieving this."

 

 

<CENTER>Text 75 </CENTER>

 

 

The

Sruti

states,

 

 

"An aspiring disciple who does not stay together with the guru for a year should not be given

diksa-mantra

by the

guru

."

 

 

<CENTER>Text 76 </CENTER>

 

 

The

Sarasangraha

also declares,

 

 

"The

guru

should examine an aspiring disciple under his tutelage for a year."

 

 

<CENTER>Text 78</CENTER>

 

 

It is described in the

Krama-dipika

,

 

 

"The disciple who is desirous to receive diksa [in the Gopala-mantra] must serve the

guru

for three years employing his wealth, simplicity of heart, affectionate behaviour, full physical endeavour, gentle speech and favourable attitude with the understanding that the

guru

is as good as the Supreme Lord. In this manner, when the disciple satisfies his

guru

, he may beg for

diksa

."

 

 

[krsna]

 

• 
  Bhagavad-gita 5-23 :
  
  PURPORT
  "There are the forces of talk, forces of anger, forces of mind, forces of the stomach, forces of the genitals, and forces of the tongue. One who is able to control the forces of all these different senses, and the mind, is called gosvami, or svami. --- Therefore, one must practice to control them (forces of senses and mind) before one gives up this material body. One who can do this is understood to be self-realized and is thus happy in the state of self-realization."
  

 

 

 

Nectar of Instruction 1:

 

"A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world." :pray: :pray: