Is A Physically Present Spiritual Master Required?

[krsna]

 

there have been systematic attempts of the Vaishnavas influenced by the Judeo-Christian tradition, to strip Vaishnavism of all it's mysticism and unique character, and to reduce it to yet another Christianity-type belief system. The mantras have become 'prayers', the dikisa initiation became 'baptism', the senior Vaishnava gurus became 'priests'. They claim that all you need is the books (which became 'the Bible') of one and only true 'savior', Srila Prabhupada.

 

It is all bogus, however well intentioned.

[krsna]

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In Jaiva Dharma

 

Chapter 20 Prameya:

-Abhidheya-Vaidhi sadhana bhakti on page 482:

Vijaya: "What does it mean to perform guru seva with faith?"

Babaji: One should not consider Sri Gurudeva to be a mortal or an ordinary jiva. Rather one should understand him to be the representative of all the devas (sarva-devamaya). One should never disobey him, and one should always know him to be Vaikuntha-tattva.

 

on p.479:

 

Babaji:"The qualities of a sad guru (bona fide guru) and the sat-sisya (bona fide disciple) are given in detail in the Sri Hari-bhakti-vilasa. (1.23.64. the essence is that only a person with pure character and sraddha is qualified to become a sisya, and only that person who is endowed with suddha-bhakti,who knows bhakti-tattva, and is of spotless character, simple, without greed, free from mayavada philosophy, and expert in all devotional activities is qualified as sad-guru."

[krsna]

 

 

 

 

“We are neither renouncer nor enjoyer, we are simply servitor of Krishna. Please follow this principle and you will be never disturbed in any frightened condition offered by the maya.”

 

- Srila Prabhupada, letter to Gargamuni, November 22, 1968

[krsna]

 

 

Become happy.

 

 

 

"Almost everyone. Ninety-nine point nine percent (99.9%) people, they want to become happy within this material world. Therefore they are poor, very, very poor. And the mahatmas, they give the knowledge that 'This is not life. This is a temporary platform.' Asasvatam, duhkhalayam asasvatam [bg. 8.15]. This is confidential knowledge. You are trying to be happy...

 

Suppose Brahma. He lives for many millions of years. Still, it is duhkhalayam asasvatam. That life is also temporary. What is millions of years' duration of life in comparison to the eternal life? So beginning from Brahma down to the small ant, whoever is within this material world, it is to be understood their understanding is very poor. And the mahatma, being kind upon these poor souls, they deliver the same knowledge as Krishna gives. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam.. [bg. 18.66].

 

This is guru's business. Do not manufacture anything. There is no question of... There is no need of manufacturing anything. Simply you speak to the suffering humanity the same thing which Krishna says. Saksad bhagavata uditam. This is the business of guru."

(Srila Prabhupada lecture, Vrndavana, August 11, 1974)

[krsna]

 

 

Why not practice bhakti-yoga from the beginning if you want to see Krishna?

 

 

 

 

"From that great lotus flower from which Brahma is generated, certainly Brahma could not see anything else except the big lotus flower. Therefore Lord Brahma, diving within the water, executed austerity and penance for one hundred years but still could not get any trace of You. The reason is that when a seed is fructified, the original seed cannot be seen."

 

 

 

Prabhupada:

 

 

 

But Krishna is everywhere. Krishna... Andantara-stha paramanu-cayantara-stham [bs. 5.35]. As Krishna is being described, Visnu, within this universe, so He is not only within the universe as Garbhodakasayi Visnu; He is within your heart also. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [bg. 18.61]. And not only within your heart, but as many atoms are there, the composition of your body, in each atom He is there. Andantara-stha paramanu-cayantara-stham. So Krishna is everywhere. But why you cannot see? Antar-bahir-avasthitam. Krishna is within and without. If He is within every atom, then atoms are there, outside and inside. So antar-bahih, He is situated. Anyone can see Him, but He cannot be seen to the nondevotee. He cannot be... Nayam prakasah sarvasya yoga-maya-samavrtah. He is not exposed to everyone. He is simply exposed to the devotee. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayan... [bs. 5.38]. The nondevotee cannot see. Naham prakasah sarvasya [bg. 7.25]. Unless Krishna agrees to be seen, you cannot see. It is not possible. You cannot force Him to be seen by you. No, that is not possible. Svayam eva sphuraty adah. He... When He likes, He'll be seen by you, not that you can force Him. You cannot say that "Now I am qualified. Krishna must come, and I'll see Him." That is not possible. We are never qualified unless Krishna agrees to be seen by you. This is the... Naham prakasah sarvasya yoga-maya-samavrtah: [bg. 7.25] "Everyone cannot see Me." Yoga-maya-samavrtah: "I am covered, I am veiled by the yoga-maya." Yoga-maya will not allow you to see unless you are devotee. Therefore Krishna confirms this fact: bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [bg. 18.55]. If you want to know Krishna, God, as He is, then you must practice devotional life. Then He'll be seen. Bhaktya mam, yavan yas casmi tattvatah. To know Krishna ordinarily -- "Oh, Krishna was born in India, in Mathura. He's the son of such and such, and He was very big man" -- that is not tattvatah. Tattvatah means as He is, sac-cid-ananda vigrahah [bs. 5.1]. Anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam [bs. 5.1].

 

So for to know Krishna, there are so many Vedic literatures. So we have to know through the mercy of the spiritual master. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12].

 

Everything is there, just like Krishna is there in the Bhagavad-gita, but people could not understand Krishna. Now we are presenting Krishna as it is. People are understanding. They are becoming devotee. So we have to go through the right channel. Then we'll know Krishna. And as soon as you know Krishna as He is, your life is successful. That is the aim and object of Krishna consciousness movement -- simply to help the people to know Krishna. This is the only business, because as soon as you know Krishna, your life is successful in which way, eh? The success is tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [bg. 4.9]. This is success. This body should be the last acceptance of material body. That is success. Otherwise, if you continue, tatha dehantara-praptih... [bg. 2.13]. These foolish people, they do not know that dehantara, there is change of body. Change of body is there already. You are experiencing, but they do not believe that after death there is body. Why not? If you have got experience in the life -- "I have passed through so many changes of body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, then middle age and old body" -- then what is next? Why do you finish here? It is common logic. Why should you finish here? There must be body. This is real reasoning. And Krishna confirms it. Not only your contemplation. Krishna says, tatha dehantara-praptih: [bg. 2.13] "In this way you'll have another body." The Krishna, the great authority, He says, from whom Brahma, the first creature, he learned. Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye.Krishna, Vasudeva... Om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. He... Tene brahma hrda adi-kavaye. He taught this Vedic literature to the heart of Brahma. He can teach you through the heart also because He is sitting there. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese [bg. 18.61].

 

 

 

A particularly mention, hrd-dese, "within the core of the heart." He doesn't say that "Isvara is situated on your finger." No. Within the heart. The particular place is mentioned. Therefore the yogis' practice, real yoga practice, means to find out Krishna within the heart. That is real yoga. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah [sB 12.13.1]. This is yogi. Yogis meditate. What for meditation? To find out Krishna within the heart. That is yoga, not to show magic and gymnastic. No, that is not. That gymnastic yoga, that is not yoga. Real yoga is to find out Krishna within one's own heart. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti... That yoga means you have to come to the platform of prema, love, not that simply official practice, you can see. You have to come to the platform... Without having love connection with Krishna, it is not possible to see Him. You may practice this hatha-yoga or gymnastic yoga for many, many births -- you cannot see Krishna. Krishna can be seen when you smear with love ointment in your eyes. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [bs. 5.38]. And that is possible: bhakti, through bhakti.

 

So therefore why not practice bhakti-yoga from the beginning if you want to see Krishna? And that is recommended by Krishna:

 

yoginam api sarvesam

mad-gata antaratmana

sraddhavan bhajate yo mam

sa me yuktatamo matah

[bg. 6.47]

 

Krishna says, "He's first-class yogi." Who? "Who is always trying to see Krishna within the heart." So it is very difficult task? In our bhakti-yoga we can teach this art of seeing Krishna within the core of the heart in one minute. It is so simple. You are seeing Krishna here. You must have impression and try to keep that impression within your heart always. Then you become first-class yogi. Why so much gymnastic and pressing the nose? No. Take directly. If you are engaged twenty-four hours in the service of the Deity, you cannot see except the Deity. This bhakti-yoga practice is so simple. Therefore kanistha adhikari, those who are neophyte, they must take to Deity worship. By Deity worship he is elevated to the position of seeing the Lord within the heart. This is very important thing. You can see -- He is there -- but you have no knowledge, or even if you have knowledge, you are not competent to see Him. But if you practice Deity worship...

 

Therefore it is the duty of guru to engage the neophyte devotee always in Deity worship.

 

sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana-

srngara-tan-mandira-marjanadau

yuktasya bhaktams ca niyunjato 'pi

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

 

It is the duty of the guru to engage his disciple in Deity worship, in cleansing the temple, dressing the Deity, decorating the Deity, so many engagements. So everyone should be engaged. If one is not competent to dress the Deity -- everyone is competent -- he can simply wash the temple and cleanse it. That will also help. There is no difference, that one who is cleansing the floor of the temple and one who is engaged directly in the Deity worship... There is no difference. They are all the same. Don't think that "I am engaged in cleansing the floor of the temple, and he is engaged in decorating the temple. I should be envious." No. There is no question of. Any kind of duty you are engaged... Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [bg. 18.46]. If you cannot do something which is hard for you, you do anything for Krishna under the direction of spiritual master, you'll get perfection. It is not that "I have to do this. I have to do that." No. Krishna's service is manyfold. If one is unable to take one kind of service, the spiritual master can give him another kind of service. But both the services are accepted by Krishna.

 

Thank you very much.

 

.

(Srila Prabhupada lecture, Mayapur, March 12, 1976)

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

Unless Krishna agrees to be seen, you cannot see. It is not possible. You cannot force Him to be seen by you. No, that is not possible. Svayam eva sphuraty adah. He... When He likes,

 

He'll be seen by you, not that you can force Him. You cannot say that "Now I am qualified. Krishna must come, and I'll see Him." That is not possible. We are never qualified unless Krishna agrees to be seen by you.

 

 

 

 

People are understanding. They are becoming devotee. So we have to go through the right channel. Then we'll know Krishna.

 

And as soon as you know Krishna as He is, your life is successful. That is the aim and object of Krishna consciousness movement -- simply to help the people to know Krishna.

 

This is the only business, because as soon as you know Krishna, your life is successful in which way, eh? The success is tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [bg. 4.9]. This is success.

 

This body should be the last acceptance of material body. That is success. Otherwise, if you continue, tatha dehantara-praptih

 

If you cannot do something which is hard for you, you do anything for Krishna under the direction of spiritual master, you'll get perfection.

 

It is not that "I have to do this. I have to do that." No. Krishna's service is manyfold. If one is unable to take one kind of service, the spiritual master can give him another kind of service.

 

But both the services are accepted by Krishna.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you very much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Srila Prabhupada lecture, Mayapur, March 12, 1976)

 

 

[krsna]

"When thou art living still in sound!"

- Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

 

"Such transcendental literatures,

even though irregularly composed,

are heard, sung and accepted by

purified men who are thoroughly honest."

(Srila Prabhupada's Srimad Bhagvatam, Preface)

 

"The potency of transcendental sound

is never minimised because the vibrator

is apparently absent."

(Srila Prabhupada, S.B. 2.9.8, purport)

 

"Reception of spiritual knowledge

is never checked by

any material condition.

(Srila Prabhupada, S.B. 7.7.1, purport)

 

"I will live forever from my books

and you will utilise."

(Srila Prabhupada, 17/5/75, Berkeley USA)

 

"...and these books will do everything."

(Srila Prabhupada, 18/2/76)

 

"These are not ordinary books.

It is recorded chanting.

Anyone who reads, he is hearing."

(Srila Prabhupada, 19/10/74, Letter to Rupanuga Das)

 

"Physical presence is immaterial.

Presence of the transcendental sound

received from the Spiritual Master

should be the guidance of life."

(Srila Prabhupada, 19/1/67, Letter to Brahmananda and other students)

 

"So we should give more stress

on the sound vibration,

either of Krsna or Spiritual Master.

Never think that I am absent from you.

Physical presence is not essential;

presence by message (or hearing)

is the real touch."

(Srila Prabhupada, 2/8/67, Letter to students)

 

"Krishna and his representative are the same.

Similarly, the spiritual master

can be present wherever the disciple wants.

A spiritual master is the principle,

not the body.

Just like a television can be seen

in thousands of place

by the principle of relay monitoring."

(Srila Prabhupada's Letter to Malati, 28/5/68)

 

"Whatever I had to say,

I have already said in my books...

Whether I am present or not does not matter."

(Srila Prabhupada, 17/5/77, Vrindavan)

 

"In my books the philosophy of Krsna

Consciousness is explained fully..."

(Srila Prabhupada, 22/11/74, Letter to Brahmarupa Dasa)

 

"Diksa is the process

by which one can

awaken his transcendental knowledge

and vanquish all reactions

caused by sinful activity."

Srila Prabhupada's Caitanya Caritamrita, Madhya, 15.108, purport

 

Srila Prabhupada : "Even a moment

association with a pure devotee - all success!"

Revatinandana : "Does that apply to reading

the words of a pure devotee?"

Srila Prabhupada : "Yes"

(Srila Prabhupada, 13/12/70)

 

"So although a physical body is not present,

the vibration should be accepted as

the presence of the Spiritual Master,

vibration.

What we have heard from the Spiritual Master,

that is living."

(Srila Prabhupada, 13/1/69, Los Angeles)

 

"Every one of you must regularly read our books...,

and automatically all questions will be answered."

(Srila Prabhupada, 24/01/70, Letter to Randhira)

 

"...you should always read my books daily

and all your questions will be answered..."

(Srila Prabhupada, 22/11/74, Letter to Hugo Salemon)

 

"So utilise whatever time you find

to make a thorough study of my books.

Then all your questions will be answered."

(Srila Prabhupada, 7/1/76, Letter to Upendra)

 

Devotee : "Srila Prabhupada

when you are not present with us,

how is it possible to receive instructions?

For example in questions that may arise..."

Srila Prabhupada : "Well the questions

are answ...answers are there in my books."

(Srila Prabhupada, 13/5/73, Los Angeles)

 

"If there is no chance to serve

the spiritual master directly,

a devotee should serve him by

remembering his instructions.

There is no difference between

the spiritual masters instructions

and the spiritual master himself.

In his absence therefore,

his words of direction should be

pride of the disciple."

(Srila Prabhupada, C.c. Adi 1.35, purport)

 

"Anyone who has developed

unflinching faith in the Lord

and the Spiritual Master

can understand the revealed scripture

unfolding before him.

I am sure that even if

I am not physically present before you,

still you will be able to execute

all spiritual duties in the matter

of Krsna Consciousness,

if you follow the above principles."

(Srila Prabhupada, 29/9/67, Letter to Subala)

 

"As far as my blessing is concerned,

it does not require my physical presence.

If you are chanting Hare Krsna there,

and following my instructions,

reading the books,

taking only Krsna prasadam etc.,

then there is no question of

your not receiving the blessings

of Lord Caitanya,

whose mission

I am humbly trying to push on."

(Srila Prabhupada, 30/6/74, Letter to BalaKrsna)

 

"You write that you have desire to avail

of my association again,

but why do you forget that

you are always in association with me?

When you are helping my missionary activities

I am always thinking of you,

and you are always thinking of me.

That is real association.

Just like I am always thinking of

my Guru Maharaja at every moment,

although he is not physically present,

and because I am trying to serve him

to my best capacity,

I am sure he is helping me

by his spiritual blessings.

So there are two kinds of association:

physical and preceptorial.

Physical association is not so important

as preceptorial association."

(Srila Prabhupada, 18/8/69, Letter to Govinda dd)

 

Paramananda :

"We are always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada,

simply by your teachings and your instructions.

We are always meditating on your instructions."

Srila Prabhupada : "Thank you.

That is the real presence.

Physical presence is not important."

(Srila Prabhupada, 6/10/77, Vrndavana)

 

"I am always with you.

Never mind if I am physically absent."

(Srila Prabhupada, 16/9/67, Letter to Jayananda)

 

"It is sometimes misunderstood that

if one has to associate with persons

engaged in devotional service,

he will not be able to solve the economic problem.

To answer this argument,

it is described here that

one has to associate with liberated persons

not directly, physically,

but by understanding,

through philosophy and logic,

the problems of life."

(Srila Prabhupada, S.B. 3:31:48, purport)

 

"Therefore we should take advantage

of the vani,

not the physical presence."

(Srila Prabhupada, 4/11/75, Letter to Suci dd)

 

"I shall remain your personal guidance,

physically present or not physically

as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja."

(Srila Prabhupada, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

 

"Although according to material vision

His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta

Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada

passed away from this material world on

the last day of December 1936,

I still consider his Divine Grace to be

always present with me by his vani,

his words.

There are two ways of association

- by vani and by vapuh.

Vani means words

and vapuh means physical presence.

Physical presence is sometimes appreciable

and sometimes not,

but vani continues to exist eternally.

Therefore,

one must take advantage of the vani,

not the physical presence."

(Srila Prabhupada C.c. Antya, concluding words)

 

"But always remember that I am always with you.

As you are always thinking of me,

I am always thinking of you also.

Although physically we are not together,

we are not separated spiritually.

So we should be concerned only with

this spiritual connection."

(Srila Prabhupada, 13/11/69, Letter to Gaurasundara)

 

"So we should associate by vibration,

and not by the physical presence.

That is real association."

(Srila Prabhupada, 18/08/68, Lectures SB)

 

"There are two conceptions,

the physical conception and

the vibrational conception.

The physical conception is temporary.

The vibrational conception is eternal.

...When we feel separation from Krsna

or the Spiritual Master,

we should just try to remember their words

or instructions,

and we will no longer feel that separation.

Such association with Krsna and

the Spiritual Master

should be association by vibration

not physical presence.

That is real association."(Srila Prabhupada, Elevation to Krsna Consciousness, chapter 4)

 

Devotee : "...so sometimes

the Spiritual Master is far away.

He may be in Los Angeles.

Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple.

He thinks

"How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?

Srila Prabhupada : "Just follow his order,

Spiritual Master is along with you by his words.

Just like my Spiritual Master is not

physically present,

but I am associating with him by his words."

(Srila Prabhupada, 18/08/71)

 

"We are not separated actually.

There are two - Vani or Vapuh -

so Vapu is physical presence

and Vani is presence by the vibration,

but they are all the same."

(Srila Prabhupada, 22/6/70, Letter to Hamsadutta)

[krsna]

 

 

Embodied Guru Necessity

 

 

 

 

 

Why is there an abolute necessity for an 'embodied guru' who will tell me what to do? Who I become accountable to and who will reprimand me and perhaps expose me as a fraudster?

 

Who will give me clear instructions on what my life-time service is to the cause of Sri Guru and Gouranga?

 

Or why do I need a stand-in 'monitor' guru, especially when the Sampradaya Acarya Srila Prabhupada has left 'everthing in his books'?

 

[cbrahma]

 

• He reasons ill who tells that Vaishnavas die
  When thou art living still in sound
  The Vaishnavas die to live and living try
  To spread the holy name around!
  (from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur's poem “Thakura Haridasa”)

 

[krsna]

 

 

 

"You have rightly observed that I am simply trying to execute the order of my

 

 

 

 

Spiritual Master. Whatever is being done it is not on account of my intelligence or

 

 

 

 

endeavor because I am simply an instrument in the hands of my Spiritual Master.

 

 

 

 

I do not know how far I have got the capacity to carry His order, but I may say that

 

 

I have a sincere desire to do it.

 

 

 

 

This is Parampara system. If a student tries to satisfy his immediate Acarya or the

 

 

 

 

 

Spiritual Master, that is the only qualification for advancing in Krsna

 

 

consciousness. This is explained in the Guruvastakam -- yasya prasadah

 

 

 

 

bhagavata prasadah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I am very much pleased that you are doing your job very nicely. Everyone

 

 

 

 

 

 

should try his best to do his part depending on Krsna and Spiritual Master, then

 

 

all success is there. "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Srila Prabhupada letter, June 17, 1970)

 

 

 

[krsna]

Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you.

(SP Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should

be concerned only with this spiritual connection.

(SP Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association.

(SP Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krishna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krishna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association.

(SP in Elevation to Krishna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57)

Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.

(SP in CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)

Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.

(SP Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja.

(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life.

(SP in SB 3:31:48)

I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent.

(SP Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

Paramananda: We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Shrila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.

Shrila Prabhupada: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important.

(SP Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)

You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you, and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment, although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical

and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association.

(SP Letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)

As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krishna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krishna prasadam etc.,

then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Chaitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on.

(SP Letter to Bala Krishna, 30/6/74)

'Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute

all spiritual duties in the matter of Krishna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles.

(SP Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)

So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.

(SP General lectures, 69/01/13)

Devotee: ...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'

Shrila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.

(SP SB Lectures, 71/08/18)

Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically.

(SP Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)

So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krishna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean,

prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter.

(SP Lectures SB 73/12/11)

So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically we may be in far distant place.

(SP Letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)

I went to your country for spreading this information of Krishna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you.

(Letter to Nandarani, Krishna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)

We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same.

(SP Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)

So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master, the Vaniseva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him.

(SP Letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)

[krsna]

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association. “(Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

 

“It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life.”

(SB 3:31:48)

 

“Paramahamsa: My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

 

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-Gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?”

(Morning Walk, Paris 11/6/74)

 

“The influence of the pure devotee is such that if someone comes to associate with him with a little faith, he gets the chance of hearing about the Lord from authoritative scriptures like Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. This is the first stage of association with the pure devotee.”

(Nectar of Devotion, (1982 Ed.), p146)

 

“So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.”

(General lectures, 69/01/13)

 

“These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing.”

(Letter to Rupanuga Das, 19/10/74)

 

“Krsna and his representative are the same. Similarly, the spiritual master can be present wherever the disciple wants. A spiritual master is the principle, not the body. Just like a television can be seen in thousands of place by the principle of relay monitoring.”

(Letter to Malati, 28/5/68)

 

“Narayana: So those disciples who don't have the opportunity to see you or speak with you...

 

Srila Prabhupada: That he was speaking, vani and vapuh. Even if you don't see his body, you take his words, vani.”

(Room conversation, 21/7/75)

[krsna]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Gift of Lord Krishna Directly

 

 

 

"It is my duty to help you always in the matter of understanding Krishna Consciousness and whatever I am trying to bestow upon you all is the gift of Lord Krishna directly -- I am just doing the work of a bearer. There is nothing of my personal contribution and I ask all your mercy so that I may be able to distribute Krishna's message as it is without any deviation. That will make Krishna, myself, and all others eternally happy. It is so nice, sublime and easy to perform."

 

 

 

(Srila Prabhupada letter, June 14, 1968)

 

[Bishadi]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Gift of Lord Krishna Directly

 

 

 

 

 

"It is my duty to help you always in the matter of understanding Krishna Consciousness and whatever I am trying to bestow upon you all is the gift of Lord Krishna directly -- I am just doing the work of a bearer. There is nothing of my personal contribution and I ask all your mercy so that I may be able to distribute Krishna's message as it is without any deviation. That will make Krishna, myself, and all others eternally happy. It is so nice, sublime and easy to perform."

 

 

 

 

 

(Srila Prabhupada letter, June 14, 1968)

 

 

 

sounds like a commitment or choice to do rather than be complacent

 

Kind of neat to see how man can by choice contribute with no intent of being led by a master, except existence itself.

 

Kind of rings true with the correct opinion of this thread.

[krsna]

 

[Ravindran Kesavan]

Sivagamas declare that Lord Siva graces deciples by three kinds of initiation.

First, For ordinary average deciples Lord siva comes as a human gury in flesh and blood and initiate. ( all spiritual gurus are siva swarupas)

For very advanced few, Lord siva apperrs in his devine form With four hands, matteed hair, three eyes and cresent moon and initiate.

For perfect deciples Lord Siva initiates by being His formless state being present in the mind inside the deciple's own head.

 

This must settle the debate and confusion about guru being physical or not. Guru can come in all forms - physical form , spiritual form ( that is with out flesh and blood but with light body) and the formless form.

 

K.Ravindran

[chotaDilaram]

all answers are here Brahmakumaris

direct from Bap Saman Sat Chit Annand Shiva Baba Satguru.....

Om Shanti

[krsna]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The secret to advancing in Krishna Consciousness is revealed here in by Srila Prabhupada. This quote applies to every entity aspiring to be devotees of Lord Krishna.

At the end of the lecture, Rancora das asked a question of Srila Prabhupada, "When you become initiated by the spiritual master, does he take all of your karma, even if you might perform sinful activities - does he take the suffering you might have received?"

 

Prabhupada replied heavily,

 

"You must simply become ruled by your spiritual master."

 

Those words by Srila Prabhupada entered the heart of his disciple, and his glance cut through all impersonalism.