sudhaya Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 True, thx..lets see what I can do.. I'll keep you posted. Haribol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 "Where was all the outrage when the thugs in Falujah killed four American civilians, dragged their burnt bodies through the streets and then hung their charred carcas' dangling over a bridge?" These four were certainly NOT civilians. They were highly paid mercenaries (former US special forces soldiers) out on a security detail for a very, very suspicious private company (most likely a CIA front) and they WERE carrying automatic weapons at the time. Only a blatant propaganda piece could call these people "civilians". Iraqis fight for their own country. These four mercenaries fought for money. Who do you think is the thug here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonehearted Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 There was plenty of outrage. The right-wing nuts keep screaming that there's no outrage about Saddam Hussein's brutality, or about the soldiers killed, or about the killing of these four men and the desecration of their bodies. That's blatant bullpuckey, and I'm sick to death of this propaganda. If you tell a lie loudly and often enough, they seem to think, it becomes true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudhaya Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Maybe he will read/maybe not. Hare Krsna. Thx for the suggestion, says he gets over 1 million every year, - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Everywhere there are redneck heehaw psychos. We have them; they have them. It all reminds me of 'Deliverance' or 'Pulp Fiction'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudhaya Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 I've seen that film, only thing I can remember of it is the tomatoe joke, then I would remember it lol Haribol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Is dead. Now the big western hero warriors look like a bunch of homos to the world. Maybe sodomy would be classified by some as rape and not torture, but certainly using a broom handle for sodomy leans closer to torture, although for the perp it was likely simply sex. Zed's dead, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudhaya Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 'I think we went over a bump Ghari' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 The question is not who's a thug and who isn't. It is always wrong to drag bodies down the streets and hang them upside down. Period. What's it gotta do with the men being security officers or what you will? All that's immaterial. Right is right, wrong is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 SB 4.17.26 Any cruel person—be he a man, woman or impotent eunuch—who is only interested in his personal maintenance and has no compassion for other living entities may be killed by the king. Such killing can never be considered actual killing. .................... Ya know, Krsna impresses me as being very dedicated to social welfare here… best for you, me and WE. I interpret the king as whoever is best serving Krsna here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Jagat is very articulate : ********************** At the beginning of this Iraq business, I went against my liberal and pacifist instincts to side with the rhetoric of exporting democracy. Much as I hate the narrow-minded American constituency represented by Bush (see America's Fundamental Sin of Abuse), I felt that the American historical commitments to the values expressed in their own constitution would outweight all the evils that such an imperialist act would inevitably entail. Though I continued to hold onto this hope for the longest time, I have to say that the accumulation of stupid acts on the part of the Americans has astonished me to the point that I am ready to admit that the whole adventure has been a disaster. If we analyze the results from the baseline of the war on terrorism, at this point anyway, it has been a failure. There are so many points of criticism. In this particular instance, American racism plays an important role. Like most imperialists, Americans have a deep disdain for the people they conquer, encapsulated in the concept of a "civilizing mission." The ordinary American soldier is sorely limited in the kind of sophistication needed to navigate cultural differences of any kind, but the accumulation of anti-Islamic propaganda, as well as Manichaean rhetoric, have tacitly condoned actions such as those exposed in the recent "abuses" of prisoners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 it is sad that so many otherwise mature devotees fall for the propaganda machine of the demonic controllers of the world. it is good however, that some of them eventually are able to wake up (it should not be hard after such obvious exposures of the true nature of these controllers). only a very sober person can see things as they are, even with the help of the shastra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 the internet provided excellent facility for global sharing of ideas and information. just look at our own Vaishnava community... thus keeping people in darkness is a little more difficult. in this particular conflict asuras fight other asuras using all their dirty rakshasa tricks, including all kinds of propaganda. they pretend to have good intentions while they are simply LUSTING AFTER CONTROLLING THE WORLD. innocent people get easily bewildered and become part of the Game of Demons, thus aquiring their demonic qualities. Devotees need to stay out of such dirty games and serve Krishna alone. Our leaders should boldly denounce all asuras for what they are. Just because one set of demons is more polished in their game that does not make them acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 … more like the flow of lying and cheating… a devotee doesn't infuse others with dessention and doubt. (I must admit I'm amused at watching them squirm)(On the other hand, it's heavy Maya. I make an effort to distance myself… except when I see them on the street I yell, "If you work for the government, you have your head up your _SS!). /images/graemlins/smile.gif When people have to shed their artificial authority and deal with life and living, they turn into dogs in trying to manufacture their own. Things are seldom what they seem. Did you think HMO's dealt with insurance or that your country is meant to protect you? I bet some of these big brain trolls really have… tiny little pinheads and a drug habit. They are definately licking RICH b_tt. Lick. Lick. It's lick licking money! These people are not very representative of democracy I'd say. But they'll tell you they are. Just wait till you hear 'em speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I think about how many can intimidate so few. I think how they use technology to do it. I think how we're paying for it. Bg 16.9 TEXT 9 Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world. PURPORT The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing. But, according to Bhagavad-gita, they are unintelligent and devoid of all sense. They try to enjoy this material world to the utmost limit and therefore always engage in inventing something for sense gratification. Such materialistic inventions are considered to be advancement of human civilization, but the result is that people grow more and more violent and more and more cruel, cruel to animals and cruel to other human beings. They have no idea how to behave toward one another. Animal killing is very prominent amongst demoniac people. Such people are considered the enemies of the world because ultimately they will invent or create something which will bring destruction to all. Indirectly, this verse anticipates the invention of nuclear weapons, of which the whole world is today very proud. At any moment war may take place, and these atomic weapons may create havoc. Such things are created solely for the destruction of the world, and this is indicated here. Due to godlessness, such weapons are invented in human society; they are not meant for the peace and prosperity of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 >>I think about how many can intimidate so few. I think how they use technology to do it. I think how we're paying for it.<< Willing minions? This world is where we are sent to after we have sold our souls. As long as movie money comes along with the crusty bread people will work hard under anyone's direction. What did one President promise? "Two chickens in every pot." Oh wow thanks alot.!! Not just one but two rotting bird carcases. Prosperity at last. What a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanamali Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 "Where was all the outrage when the thugs in Falujah killed four American civilians, dragged their burnt bodies through the streets and then hung their charred carcas' dangling over a bridge?" There is outrage. However, when our country (the US) breaks Geneva Convention rules it loses its moral standing in the world. Even worse, there is evidence that humiliation tactics were being used under orders because some people in the chain of command saw sexual degradation as a good way to get Iraqi prisoners to "break." It has been asserted that prisoners were not only put in sexually compromising positions, etc. but the pictures may have been taken under orders. The prisoners may have been blackmailed by using threats that the pictures would be sent to friends and neighbors if they didn't turn over information. Even Donald Rumsfeld is saying things are going to get worse. More pictures are going to be released. I believe what happened will be designated as torture. Some of the pictures (unreleased to the public) are reported to feature sodomy and torture of the genitals and other areas with electrodes. Then Tuesday they released the tape of the American civilian being decapitated. I knew this Iraq situation was going to degenerate into something far more terrible than Bush could ever imagine. Let us pray for the innocent Iraqis and innocent Americans in the midst of this violence. May the leaders of this world learn to accept the guidance of the Lord Sri Krishna and learn to act in a humanistic and just manner. And may the motives and actions of both sides be brought to full light. Jai Sri Krishna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Hari Bol! You are correct and - I did something like that! I sent these two letters to fourty world leaders at the time of the Iraq invasion: -------------------------- Peace Plan for the Middle East... Tue, 18 Mar 2003 18:45:58 -0600 donmuntean******** pm@pm.gc.ca, webmaster@kingabdullah.jo, thomas.klestil@hofburg.at, press@president.bg, vouli@..cy, INFO@FIJI.GOV.FJ, office@presidpress.gov.ge, minfor@sdnp.org.gy, info@president.lt, webmaster@admin.ch, webmaster@primeminister.ministry.se, ambsec@bahrainembassy.org, mail@primeminister.gr, postur@for.stjr.is, miniszterelnok@meh.hu, posteingang@bundespraesident.de, presidentti@tpk.fi, webmaster@aras.irlgov.ie, mofi@uae.gov.ae, info@gov.ps, Apostolische_Nuntiatur@t-online.de, ioniliescu@presidency.ro, amghar@pm.gov.ma, beeldrecht@cedar.nl, stm@stm.dk, cumhurbaskanligi@tccb.gov.tr, poi_sug@rb.nic.in, saham@neda.net, paavo.lipponen@vnk.fi, inquiries@un.org, kfb@saudinf.com, embassyofpakistan@hotmail.com, dip@mid.ru [there were others] [Note: if your receive this message more than once I am sorry - I have had some issues with this mail out - it seems that there is someone who does not want this message sent!] Please accept my full respects: Forgive my bold nature and PLEASE forgive me in re sending this Message to all your addresses in 'one' mail out! We are on the Eve of global changes which are being improperly directed - as the "U.S." President - George W. Bush CONTINUES with his ever so FORGED - 'Coalition of the Willing'. We must gravely 'note' this tossing around of various RED FLAG Innuendoes within the "U.N." and the global Media - we must 'note' HIS pushing what amounts to global 'Veiled' Threats - that Bush and Co. - can and will without due consideration of the U.N.'s and the world's reactions - put aside the 'authority' of the "U.N." and gamble on - "going it alone" - with an 'unprovoked attack' on matters which are a clear 'diversion' away from the urgent and real Middle East crisis issue - all this leads to another dire point: It IS so very disturbing that the 'option' which Bush and Co. 'lords over' the "U.N." Security Council - nay - the world - is their myriad of weapons and wealth! Mr. Bush has been very openly 'mis' leading a "Peace Process" - he's been 'manufacturing' - [through intrigue and vote buying, etc.,] a very weak attempt at a 'Forced Unity' - one which will NOT hold... His approach to Global Peace is not without its - 'egocentric' duplicity - obviously this ill-push by Mr. Bush and Co. - in what amounts to a - 'manufactured policing role' - is a most ill-declared [to the world] unilateral position. Their actions indicate that the estimation of the Bush administration is that the "U.N." is now - "a useless debating club" and - "irrelevant" - what hope can there be down the road for the "U.N." and those Nations who DO honor it? Will Bush and Co. with their - "Coalition of the Willing" - accept that now ANY Nations can [and some will] claim that the "U.N." [and the Rules] - have become "irrelevant"? In light of this motivated 'diversion': The "real issues” which prevent concrete movements to resolution of our collective bad karmas within the Middle East are centered about - "Jerusalem" and its "Temple Mount" - in direct connection to 'this issue' - is the ignored criminal "Occupation of the Palestinians" - for the last - 20018 days. We must immediately get on with the fact that a REAL end to this Occupation must come NOW -- the State of Palestine has been too long 'stalled' over this point. Resolution must and can move forward – but how long do we evade this noted fact -- logic dictates -- if it takes Israel's new third Temple Site to make them settle these injustices - then so be it. HOWEVER - instead of “clearing” the mutually holy site of the ancient and Sacred “Dome of the Rock” [and compound] with a so-called "Errant’ Rocket attack... [in a soon to manifest urban war] – Israel, Great Britain and America [the original 'partners in this partition'] should 'rightly' and “instantly” pay out the Billions of Dollars needed to move the 'Dome of the Rock' and Mosque Compound -- ‘Stone by Stone’. HERE IS THE CLINCHER -- to move them onto the “*Judicious and Auspicious” border of *Jordan* – ‘there’ the Palestinian peoples must be - “Empowered by the World Community” [and (in real time) financed by the above mentioned three States - with 'other' international help] to create a NEW ‘State of the Art Capital City’ - THIS must be done for the Palestinians - they must now get their deserved New State. A State whose “borders” must NOT be marginalized into “a few miles” or into a “city-state”. Thus - if old Jerusalem is going to EVER see her new third Temple – then this honorable “move” is the first step – if it be a so-called ‘Errant’ Rocket [with more peoples displaced in a "Transfer"] which gets their Temple “building process” underway -- then material nature and common sense logic dictate: NO amount of Diplomacy or Political Maneuvering shall promote “Resolution” - what to speak of “Peace” and “Security”. In our world we are now seeing Mr. Bush and Co. needlessly attacking Iraq [who next?] - and thus he will be 'forcing the world' to spend billions and billions of dollars to "rebuild" Iraq - all the while the urgent creation of a State of Palestine will be ignored - because [in part] the World will then have not enough cash [and resolve] to solve a 5+ decades long Palestinian Occupation. Can we thus trust his "road map" to Palestinian Statehood - and Global Peace? When the State of Israel was 'declared' in 1948 -- there was a great deal of Wealth channeled by Americans [and others] to ‘Fortify’ this State - even unto the present day. There is NO doubt that our world must soon admit that “Security” is NOT measured through -- Power and Weapons -- but by the ‘Qualities’ of those Possessing them. A new ‘trend’ must emerge amongst those so "possessing"…If the truth is admitted – this global war karma – unchecked -- will very soon bring the worst calamities - to the whole planet – which some are “waiting” for and will call “Armageddon” - with serious intentions of cheating the innocent masses into thinking that a so-called ‘God predicted’ “end times” scenario is taking place. This will create even bigger disturbances as many people become [as planned?] suspicious of the “Providential World Administration" - soon to emerge! [no it's not the new world order!] There are many propagandists who neither understand nor follow [biblical] Scriptures - yet - they have entered the public/political scene with 'political motives' and intentions of manipulating [through these Scriptures] world politics [and peoples]. These propagandists will lead so many more people - who may be even less inclined to search for truth -- to fight against a "Providential World Administration” - all based on false representations of so-called [biblical] “end times” predictions! Not intending to be an alarmist - yet - this is poised to become [at some point] the most ‘unfortunate aspect’ of this matter! Today's 'generation' has a Duty to pass on this Planet to future ‘generations’ - WITHOUT - all the heavy baggage of a "Clash of Civilizations” karma - which is to be 'further complicated' by an "end times" political propaganda scam. We must know that we have little time left for collective action -- if we expect to even have a so-called “future” which reflects today's standards. We must see that now it's the right time – In this World we need *ONE [unified] and ‘Qualified’ *Leader of the Leaders* -- one who is NOT afraid to Rally and Fight for ‘True Global Balance and Justice’ -- NOT a ‘Region by Region’ ‘needs’ ‘MIS’-Calculation... Through “Providence” -- God will “assist” *this Leader* [who by this ‘proves’ himself] to reconcile all these issues – to everyone's mutual satisfaction! All the world's peoples are responsible to see that this Palestinian Occupation injustice is resolved - NOW -- without further chaos within the region and world -- we all must understand this... Your servant, ------------ Peace Plan for the Middle East...continued... Fri, 04 Apr 2003 04:54:46 -0600 donmuntean******* pm@pm.gc.ca, webmaster@kingabdullah.jo, thomas.klestil@hofburg.at, press@president.bg, vouli@..cy, INFO@FIJI.GOV.FJ, office@presidpress.gov.ge, minfor@sdnp.org.gy, info@president.lt, webmaster@admin.ch, webmaster@primeminister.ministry.se, ambsec@bahrainembassy.org, mail@primeminister.gr, postur@for.stjr.is, miniszterelnok@meh.hu, posteingang@bundespraesident.de, presidentti@tpk.fi, webmaster@aras.irlgov.ie, mofi@uae.gov.ae, info@gov.ps, Apostolische_Nuntiatur@t-online.de, ioniliescu@presidency.ro, amghar@pm.gov.ma, beeldrecht@cedar.nl, stm@stm.dk, cumhurbaskanligi@tccb.gov.tr, poi_sug@rb.nic.in, saham@neda.net, paavo.lipponen@vnk.fi, inquiries@un.org, kfb@saudinf.com, embassyofpakistan@hotmail.com, dip@mid.ru [there were others] Please accept my full respects: Forgive my bold nature - as an ordinary "commoner" - I still have a mind with good insights - PLEASE forgive me for sending this Message to all your addresses in 'one' mail out! Seeing all the 'undue' respect that will be [soon?] lavished though Intrigue onto Bush and Co.'s "Road Map" to Palestinian Statehood - there are some points to bring to your attention now: Bush and Co.'s 'Road Map' for a Palestinian State cannot be [but most likely is] some little 'revised' facsimile of the failed and inequitable U.N. Resolution 181 - [u.N. "Partition Plan" dated November 29, 1947]. Clearly hindsight and a common sense logic allude that it will not suffice - neither NOW - nor ever - to offer each party 'a balance of land' - split 50/50' with - 'fewer broken borders' - it must be clearly understood that the central 'Jerusalem issue' needs redress and resolution - once and for all - it cannot be "resolved" in a manner that was espoused within U.N. Resolution 181 - as much as they would like to hope and think that [even for a limited time] an "international" Jerusalem "city state" - is the 'best and most fair solution' - these same people cannot see [or is it a calculated refusal?] that would be an sure 'untenable' situation. We are NOT EVER going to see any resolute successes with a so-called; "...Governor of an international City of Jerusalem [who] shall have the right to...make decisions on the basis of existing rights in cases of disputes which may arise between the different religious communities or the rites of a religious community with respect to such places, buildings and sites..." [From Resolution 181] Everyone can 'predict' the many ill political games that would emerge within 'this' scenario - of course a "dispute" of "sites" is very a predictable event - as are its 'consequential' dangers and 'irrepressibly' violent outcomes. If Bush and Co. calculates that they can [now or ever] deal with the 'issue of Jerusalem' in 'this' manner they demonstrate little clear foresight - [if they proceed to do so in spite of these facts - it is clear evidence of a criminality of calculation...] - we must understand that a solution 'this' way cannot happen. We must face the reality that part of the 'Justice' here demands that Jerusalem is going to have be a fully Israeli City - will it be - 'need fully' concluded - "Honorably" - and through - "Justice" - or - "dishonorably" - through the leaders of the World's 'singular' Superpower's inciting of a 'need less' "Violence and Urban War". There will NOT be any real "peace" without a full and 'honorable settlement' of this 20036 day old Partition/Occupation - this 'Jerusalem' issue directly prevents this "settlement". So it begs asking; - where does 'that' leave Bush and Co.'s [yet to be published] "Road Map"? Seeing that Israel is now demanding "100 + changes" to their [non published] "Road Map" - is an indication that the 'issue of Jerusalem' has not been dealt with in a 'time sensitive' nor 'realistic' manner. Further - it must not be Bush and Co. who 'Initiates', 'leads' or 'Administrates' this "Peace Process" [for obvious reasons!]. When these 'historic decisions' - to bring the two 'equal' States into Secure and Peaceful coexistence are made [and it must be soon!] - these 'decision makers' must present a Plan to the parties which includes a FULL CUT AWAY from each other - there must be TWO "Independent" States [not that one is 'provisional' and the other is not] - with a 50/50 - 'non fragmented' - allocation of the territories [minus the city of Jerusalem] - a 50/50 share in water and ALL other natural resources - a 60/40 [israel gets 60%] share of existing national/international market and investment segments/sectors - and Palestinian currency becomes on instant 'par' with Israel's. Palestine must receive [without debt] as 'instantly' as possible - a comprehensive new "State of the Art" Capital City - and proper infrastructure - with international assistance to create full [supporting] Urban and Rural Communities - for two plus million exiles [in addition to the possibility of one to three million living within the Capital] - and there must be FULL 'Reparations' in ALL Respects... There must be an 'instant effort' in this regard - NO more delays - NO more 'false peace plans' - which do NOT settle Everyone's Rights... Bush and Co. are wasting billions x billions x billions - for an 'unprovoked attack' and 'calculated invasion' of/on Iraq - [after which] - they will expect "the world" to - 'bank roll the rebuilding' - when it was their criminal devastation and calculations of Iraq which 'created' the 'need'. So where exactly are the Nations of the Globe going to find resources to [do that and] create this "Palestinian State" by 2005? What if Bush and Co.'s - "Road Map" - to 'Statehood for the Palestinians' fails on their - "Plan A" - scenario - [whatever that plan really is - it will undoubtedly include an Order for 'representatives' from Bush and Co.'s crew to rule within the "provisional" Palestinian's State's government - it will be veiled as keenly 'needed' for "training" purposes - this calculation will be to marginalize] - thus one must ask - has Bush and Co. "invaded Iraq" - as part of its - "Plan B" scenario - is there a future possibility of a NEW forced 'partition' within Iraq [or perhaps Syria or elsewhere in the arab World?] - where all the Palestinians will be "transferred without delay" [by force?] - with so-called lucrative 'future' 'monetary settlements' and "empty promises" etc., - When one looks at probable long term reactions - one must ask these questions... I am not attempting to be ignorant or insulting - but we know that Bush and Co. are not now - nor later - going to solve any of these problems [or other 'global issues'] - to anyone's "mutual satisfaction" - NO - with full calculation they are now manufacturing and setting into action more and more intrigue - generations to come will suffer an unstoppable trend of displaced processes and failed resolutions - with none fewer than all hopes betrayed at each step - already this is the ill history of the last 50 years... Everyone's feelings of a need to act in "good faith" within these matters - shall indeed fall to all-time 'unreachable' levels. The "revised" 'New World Order' Bush and Co. has been forging - will become a direct danger to all - it is a [dis] 'order' of "Power, Wealth and Connections" - you must note that you've evidence of a very central threat through their intrigue and ill advances - one cannot deny that Bush and Co. are drawing complete designs to 'manage' 'existing Leaders and Nations' - additionally - they are planning for more - 'representational or "puppet" governments' in third world nations - which they'll control - all this within specifically 'calculated' global regions - i.e.: they already do have [as evidenced by the realities of today's world!] a strategic 'military and economic' control of almost all global locations. Clearly Bush and Co. are 'creating' problems for 'some' today - in order to 'calculate' "everyone" later... Please - you must all return to the U.N. and under the Wise Guidance of a qualified Leader - seek to restore our 'delicate' International Order [by resolving this real problem now] - which is more quickly dissolving - than is actually apparent... Your Servant, --------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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