Concerning Satsvarupa Maharaja GBC Executive Committee Statement

[zackv]

Maharaj admitted that it was of an intimate/physical nature, but that it did not reach the point of intercourse.

 

And yes - the "lila" thing really disturbed me. Wow. I think everyone understands the concept of God having a lila which, coming from the source of everything, cannot be corrupt. But a jivatma's transgressions of his own morality, spirituality, and position being treated as some higher divine act meant to teach us, is truly terrifying.

 

I hope this idea isn't prevalent.

 

 

[Guest guest]

of course not

[theist]

 

Where did we get this idea?

 

 

Sorry, I tried to remember but can't. I haven't been following this that closely but have had some interest naturally.

 

As I understand it the therapist was his godsister/diksa disciple who is married to the editor of BTG mag.

 

He apparently admitted to the GBC that he didn't have intercourse with her. And that is said to have been from the reaction to the medication he was taking.

 

I assumed this was commonly understood or I wouldn't have spoken it out. I hope I am not rumour mongering here.

 

This whole thing is not such a surprise to me really. Not compared to that day that I walked into ISKCON Hawaii and saw two big Vyasasana's in the temple room. One for Srila Prabhupada and one for the new Zonal acarya, Satsvarupa.

 

To me this latest episode is just a continuation of that one.

 

Perhaps the facts can be posted by someone with more reliable info.

 

 

[Guest guest]

To me this latest episode is just a continuation of that one.

 

 

i completely agree

[Guest guest]

blabla

[Guest guest]

hare krishna

 

I mean he offended himself and his Guru SP so what to speak about issue ( karma , rection ...)

 

it is obvious that ritvik wish had been always solution in His divine grace minde,they proclamed themselves to be on the same level which is offens..so why why??? speaking so long about someone who is working like eplephant ( washing himself and putting again a dust...)

 

 

blbalbla...sorry

jaya srila prabhupada

[Guest guest]

it is obvious that ritvik wish had been always solution in His divine grace mind

 

 

it is not obvious at all... prabhupada is not a deviant from gaudya vaishnava sampradaya

 

if one or more cheater gurus are fallen there's to take shelter in pure gurus, not to stop to surrender to the guru

 

(that's the problem.. more "gurus" are falling, more these ritviks take energy for their nonsense)

[Guest guest]

 

just try to verify your statement,are you able to do that!!!???

 

hare krishna

 

ps

 

deviant>>??? why!? 4 canto srimadh bhagavatam rittvik ...try it...isn't vaishnava sampradaya books>???

[Guest guest]

are you asking to me to demonstrate that when a guru leaves this world, the disciples, if they are uttama adhikari, can be guru?

 

it is up to me to confute a nonsense like that the spiritual master goes on initiating from goloka vrindaban?

 

aren't they obvious things?

[Guest guest]

Oh ritvik is oh so weird

 

When Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur sent Bhakti Saranga Prabhu to London to preach, he was asked, "what if someone wants to take diksa, what then?" Prabhupada replied, then you give them initiation. And that happened. One Australian man who Bhakti Saranga Prabhu met took initiation from him, and then came back with Bhakti Saranga Prabhu to India to meet with Srila Saraswati Thakur. Interestingly, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada also spent one year engaged as temple manager of a temple of Bhakti Saranga Goswami. Then he went and received sannyasa from Sripad Keshava Maharaj.

 

So, isn't it an interesting fact that Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur authorised Bhakti Saranga Goswami to initiate disciples while he was still present in this world?

 

An interesting fact which is not discussed in Satswarup Maharaj's "Prabhupada lilamrta".

[Guest guest]

very very interesting, Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada gave diksa and harinama while Goura Kishor was present???

[Guest guest]

Yes he did.

 

Srila Gaurakishore das Babaji passed away in 1915

 

In 1906, Srila Saraswati Thakur began initiating disciples. The first was Beni Madhava das.

Another disciple was Rohini Kumar Ghosh, an educated youth who left his home in East

Bengal to come to Nabadwip in search of spiritual guidance. When Rohini Kumar arrived in

37

Nabadwip he became the follower of a Baul guru and his mistress, whom he was taught to

address as father and mother. But one day when Rohini Kumar went to Mayapur to see Lord

Chaitanya's birthplace was fortunate enough to arrive when Srila Saraswati Thakur was

lecturing in front of the Gaura-Vishnupriya temple. He listened carefully, then returned to

the residence of his Baul guru. Rohini Kumar lay down to rest without eating, meditating

upon Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati's instructions until he fell asleep. In a dream he saw the Baul

and his consort coming towards him as a tiger and tigress wanting to devour him. In distress

the fearful boy prayed to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. At that moment Saraswati Thakur

appeared in the dream and chased the tigers away, then led him towards Mayapur. The

dream broke and Rohini Kumar awoke to see that it was morning. He immediately went to

Mayapur and took shelter of Srila Siddhanta Saraswati. Some time later a relative from East

Bengal came and took him back to his family home. Eventually Rohini Kumar became a

Kolkata high court judge.

Other disciples initiated in that period were Vaishnava Prabhu (1906) and Paramananda

Vidyaratna Prabhu (1910).

 

from

http://www.mandala.com.au/books/sixgoswamis.pdf

 

[Guest guest]

so, i thik that if Guru orders to give diksa,harinama,sannyasa, etc. the true disciple just do that! that is our sadhus evidence...

To whom Srila Prabhupada said clarly and especifically to initiate their own disciples???? On my mind i just know of Srila Gour Govinda Swami order to have his own disciples...

[Guest guest]

To whom Srila Prabhupada said clarly and especifically to initiate their own disciples????

 

there's no need... every disciple, when the master is disappeared, and when there's not other senior devotees, if he's pure he takes the duty to preach and initiate

[Guest guest]

You have asked if it is true that the spiritual master remains in the universe until all his disciples are transferred to the spiritual sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule.

 

(Letter to Jayapataka, 11/7/69)

 

ps

 

challenge stil stand!?Can you prove, I asked you once...?

[zackv]

That refers to the disciples the guru initiated while he was still physically present. The guru stays within the universe until all his personally initiated disciples are returned to the spiritual world. It doesn't mean he's meant to be forced to stay in the universe repeatedly so he can initiate new disciples.

[Guest guest]

"One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorised by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana."

(S.B. 4.8.54, purport)

 

On the whole, you may know that he is not a liberated person, and therefore, he cannot initiate any person to Krsna Consciousness. It requires special spiritual benediction from higher authorities."

(SP Letter to Janardana, 26/4/68)

"The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

 

"When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshipped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru."

(C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

 

 

 

 

b) Reverse gaps:

 

 

These are all the occasions where an acarya has not yet left his body before his disciples start initiating. Lord Brahma, for example, has not yet left his body, and yet generations of successor gurus have initiated millions upon millions of disciples. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta initiated when both Srila Bhaktivinoda and Srila Gaura Kisora were still physically present. According to GII (p. 23) this is a common phenomenon in our sampradaya

 

 

i GOT'ja

 

:-))

 

[Guest guest]

Can you ,too,prove what you said!?

 

I am going to beet your claim by Vaisnava's way...just look upon these words beloW:

 

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"But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection.

 

(Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

 

 

 

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association.

 

(Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krsna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association.

 

(Elevation to Krsna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57

Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.

 

(Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

 

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Prabhu, isnt enough!? Who said ever about your statement ( material presence disciple/guru and 'saving the prive ryn in universe ) ??? quote, please !

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I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja.

 

(Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

 

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[Guest guest]

"I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja."

 

(Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

 

 

Through His instructions.

 

 

"You have asked if it is true that the spiritual master remains in the universe until all his disciples are transferred to the spiritual sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule."

 

(Letter to Jayapataka, 11/7/69)

 

 

 

Prabhupada would say things like this sometimes to give solace and encourage his disciples, this is not actually gaudiya tattva, it is not found in any sastra that the diksa or siksa guru remains in the material world until all of his disciples go to Vaikuntha or Goloka, this concievably could take millions of lifetimes, is Srila Prabhupada in some mysterious place instead of Goloka ?

 

Is He having to suffer seperation from Krsna lila because of the materialistic desires of foolish people who may be here another 20 million years ?

 

Is this His reward ?

 

Why wouldn't Sri Paramatma be doing this ?

 

This is what is Gaudiya tattva, Guru Tattva, Guru is one :

 

"Gentlemen, the offering of such an homage as has been arranged this evening to the acaryadeva is not a sectarian concern, for when we speak of the fundamental principle of gurudeva or acaryadeva, we speak of something that is of universal application. There does not arise any question of discriminating my guru from yours or anyone else's.

 

 

 

There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forms to teach you, me and all others.

 

 

 

In the Mundaka Upanisad (1.2.12) it is said:

 

 

 

tad-vijnartham sa gurum evabhigacchet

 

samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham

 

 

 

"In order to learn the transcendental science, one must approach the bona fide spiritual master in disciplic succession, who is fixed in the Absolute Truth."

 

 

 

Thus it has been enjoined herewith that in order to receive that transcendental knowledge, one must approach the guru. Therefore, if the Absolute Truth is one, about which we think there is no difference of opinion, the guru cannot be two. The acaryadeva to whom we have assembled tonight to offer our humble homage is not the guru of a sectarian institution or one out of many differing exponents of the truth. On the contrary, he is the jagad-guru, or the guru of all of us, the only difference is that some obey him wholeheartedly, while others do not obey him directly."

 

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada before the members of the Sri Gaudiya Math in Bombay, in February 1935,

 

on the appearance anniversary of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You have asked if it is true that the spiritual master remains in the universe until all his disciples are transferred to the spiritual sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule.

(Letter to Jayapataka, 11/7/69)

ps

challenge stil stand!?Can you prove, I asked you once...?

--a spiritual master never abandones disciples and he's never absent from the universe even if the disciples are all realized, it is enough to observe that every acharya (from vyasadeva to six goswamis to prabhupada) is eternally present in his books.

Said this it has nothing to do with initiation (prabhupada initiated even if bhaktisiddhanta was transcendentally present with him in his mission) and it is possible also to say that, generally, it is the chatya guru who goes on giving us shelter with another "phisical" manifestation when we do not go back to krsna in one lifetime. So there's not much to speculate if prabhupada come back personally or not, and if he can come back he can also give diksa

 

[Guest guest]

authorization is not necessarily official designation.. authorization is to have the necessary qualities.. exactly like this:

 

"The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)

[Guest guest]

"But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection.

(Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

 

if you really have a complete relationship with prabhupada, if you speak and relationate fully with him, if you can be chastized, if you can make questions and you receive direct answers.. there's no need to take another guru

 

but you will surely do it to teach the rigth behaviour to others.. also krsna and chaitanya mahaprabhu had a present living guru

[Guest guest]

 

"Prabhupada would say things like this sometimes to give solace and encourage his disciples, this is not actually gaudiya tattva, it is not found in any sastra that the diksa or siksa guru remains in the material world until all of his disciples go to Vaikuntha or Goloka, this concievably could take millions of lifetimes, is Srila Prabhupada in some mysterious place instead of Goloka ?

 

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it is a mine opinion that the statements like this above are the root cause of the today Iskcon

 

why for God sake turning the eye to blind!??

 

why!?

 

here His Divine Grace speaks;recepiant of the mercy of Sri Nityannanda ans clarly said :

"You have asked if it is true that the spiritual master remains in the universe until all his disciples are transferred to the spiritual sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule."

 

(Letter to Jayapataka, 11/7/69)

 

Now, who are you in gods name to speak oposit to KNOW what acaryadeva 'realy think , etc..???

 

wake up!!! ...:--(

 

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So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you ... it is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding ... he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone.

 

(Lecture, 2/3/75)

 

 

 

Vani is more important than vapuh.

 

(Letter to Tusta Krishna Das, 14/12/72)

 

 

 

Yes I am glad that your centre is doing so well and all the devotees are now appreciating the presence of their spiritual master by following his instructions, although he is no longer present. This is the right spirit.

 

(Letter to Karandhara, 13/9/70)

 

 

 

The spiritual master by his words, can penetrate into the heart of the suffering person and inject knowledge transcendental which alone can extinguish the fire of material existence.

 

(SB(1987 Ed) 1.7.22)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

boy.. prabhupada is empowered by krsna, he's everywhere, there's no discussion

 

the problem is me and you.. can we speak with prabhupada? can we make direct questions? can we receive personal answers? can prabhupada express his will to accept us or reject us? can we see prabhupada? can we walk with him? can we hear his chastizement?

 

if not we have to take the shelter of a pure devotee that is possible to interact with

 

if yes we have still to do it to give the example to others who are not transcendental like us

 

when i speak of talk with prabhupada and hear prabhupada do not answer "books" or "in the heart" or something mystic.. we are not mystic, transcendental nor realized.. so we need someone who is visible by common human eyes... otherwise we are not following at all, if not maya and our mind

[Devi]

nice to meet all of you. i have been reading this forum for a while.. mabe I can share some ideas you dont mind.

 

Radhe !