"martyrs" found a common source in a traumatic childhood experience

krsna · May 13, 2004

Journal explores suicide bomber profile

AFP (France), May 13, 2004

Suicide bombers who have sown mayhem from Israel to Iraq and from Chechnya to Sri Lanka are usually far from being the madmen, religious fanatics or impoverished misfits they are often portrayed as, New Scientist says.

The British science weekly says that experts who have studied the psychological profiles and backgrounds of suicide bombers find these assailants are often secular, well-educated individuals.

Many of them are born to prosperous families and take a rational decision about the path they chose, says a report in this Saturday's issue.

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Islam / Islamism

Islamism is a totalitarian ideology adhered to by Muslim extremists (e.g. the Taliban, Wahhabis, Hamas and Osama bin Laden). It is considered to be a distortion of Islam. Many Islamists engage in terrorism in pursuit of their goals.

Adherents of Islam are called "Muslims." The term "Arab" describes an ethnic or cultural identity. Not all Arabs are Muslims, and not all Muslims are Arabs. The terms are not interchangeable.

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"What this amounts to is in many ways more alarming than the ubiquitous misperception of the suicide bomber as fanatical," New Scientist says. "It means that in the right circumstances, anyone could be one."

A study of Hamas and Palestinian suicide attackers from the 1980s to 2003 by Claude Berrebi, an economist at Princeton University, found that only 13 per cent of them came from a poor background, compared with 32 per cent of the Palestinian population in general.

In addition, more than half the suicide bombers had entered further education, compared with just 15 per cent of the general population.

Similarly, a study into Hezbollah militants who died in action in Lebanon in the 1980s and 1990s showed they were less likely to have come from poor families and likelier to have attended secondary school than others of their age.

As for the idea that suicide bombers are simply suicidal, that is discounted by Israeli psychologist Ariel Merari of Tel Aviv University.

He studied the backgrounds of every suicide bomber in the Middle East since 1983, when the modern era of suicide attacks began with the truck bomb assault on the US embassy in Beirut, killing 63 people.

"In the majority, you find none of the risk factors normally associated with suicide, such as mood disorders or schizophrenia, substance abuse or history of attempted suicide," Merari told New Scientist.

Eyad El Sarraj, chairman of the Gaza Community Mental Health Program, said his own studies of Palestinian "martyrs" found a common source in a traumatic childhood experience.

All had experienced helplessness as a child, particularly the humiliation of their father by Israeli soldiers.

Whatever the individual trigger, suicide bombers are invariably channelled by a disciplined, well-organised group into taking the path of self destruction in the fight against the enemy, the report says.

This group, a result of a "peculiar mix of social, cultural and political ingredients," forges and promotes the cult of the suicide bomber, glorifying his or her acts within the community and indoctrinating him or her, often with promises of divine reward.

This "brotherhood mentality" is typically reinforced at the crucial moment by a farewell testimony in a letter or video - a classic manoeuvre to force the attacker beyond the point of no return.

"If you are in a small cell of suicide terrorists and they are all dying one by one, and you have made this commitment on a videotape saying goodbye to your family and everyone else, the psychological investment is such that it would be almost impossibly humiliating to pull back," Scott Atran, an anthropologist at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, said.

Kulapavana · May 13, 2004

"All had experienced helplessness as a child, particularly the humiliation of their father by Israeli soldiers"

the champions of the "war on terrorism" try to fight the effects of the problem THEY CREATED THEMSELVES.

how long does it take to marginalize, abuse and exploit a group of people before they turn to suicide bombing of their tormentors?

suicide bombing is just as wrong as the abuse preceding it but we must remember what is the CAUSE and what is the EFFECT.

ancient_paztriot · May 13, 2004

Syamasundara dasa: For Freud, the unconscious process, the id, was invariably animalistic and lawless, whereas for Jung, these unconscious energies were potentially sources of positive creative activity.

Srila Prabhupada: The subconscious state is covered by our present consciousness, and it can also be covered by Krsna consciousness. In that case, the subconscious states will no longer be able to react. For instace, the subconscious sex drive is there, but because Yamunacarya was in Krsna consciousness, he could overcome it. the subconscious experiences, which have been gathering for life after life, which are stored, as it were, will not be able to overcome the individual if he is fully Krsna conscious.

ancient_paztriot · May 13, 2004

Syamasundara dasa: Jung sees the mind as being composed of a balance of the conscious and the unconscious, or subconscious. It is the function of the personality to integrate these. For instance, if one has a strong sex drive, he can sublimate or channel that drive into creative art or religious activity.

Srila Prabhupada: That is our process. The sex impulse is natural for everyone in the material world. If we think of Krsna embracing Radharani, or dancing with the gopis, our material sex impulse is sublimated and weakened. If we hear about the pastimes of Krsna and the gopis from the right source, lusty desire within the heart will be suppressed, and we will be able to develop devotional service. What we must understand is that Krsna is the only purusa, enjoyer. If we help Him in His enjoyment, we also receive enjoyment. We are predominated, and He is the predominator. On the material platform, if a husband wants to enljoy his wife, the wife must voluntarily help him in that enjoyment. by helping him, the wife also becomes an enjoyer. The predominator, the enjoyer, is Krsna, and the predominated, the enjoyed, are the living entities. Actually, both enjoy, but one enjoys as the predominated, and the other as the predominator. When the predominated helps the predominator, that is the perfection of enjoyment. We must admit that sex desire is present in everyone, both male and female, and from an impartial point of view, it appears that the male is the enjoyer and the female the enjoyed, but if the female agrees to be enjoyed, she naturally becomes the enjoyer. All living entities are described as prakrti, female. Krsna is purusa, male. When the living entities agree to help Krsna’s sex desire, they become enjoyers.

Syamasundara dasa: What is meant by Krsna’s sex desire?

Srila Prabhupada: You might more correctly say “sense enjoyment.” Krsna is the supreme proprietor of the senses, and when we help Krsna in His sense enjoyment, we also naturally partake of it. The sweet rasagulla is to be enjoyed, and therefore the hand takes it and puts it into the mouth so that it can be tasted and go to the stomach. It is not that the hand tries to enjoy it directly. Krsna is the only direct enjoyer; all others are indirect enjoyers. by satisfying Krsna, we also satisfy others. We cannot possibly satisfy others directly. For instance, when a wife sees her husband eating and enjoying himself, she becomes happy. Upon seeing the predominator happy, the predominated becomes happy.

Syamasundara dasa: In the individual, should the unconscious state be predominated by the conscious?

Srila Prabhupada: that is being done. Unconscious or subconscious states sometimes emerge; we are not always aware of them. but consciousness is always there. Actually, the word “unconscious” is not a good word because it implies a lack of consciousness. “Subconscious” is a better word.

Syamasundara dasa: Psychologists say that the unconscious or subconscious often acts through the conscious, but that we do not know it.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is what I am saying. The subconscious is there, but it is not always manifest. Sometimes it is suddenly manifest, just as a bubble will suddenly emerge in a pond. The energy was there within all the time, but suddenly it comes out, just like a bubble popping to the surface of the water. You may not be able to understand why it emerges, but it is assumed that it was in the subconscious state and then suddenly manifests. That subconscious state does not necessarily have any connection with our present consciousness. It is like a stored impression, a shadow, or a photograph. The mind takes many snapshots, and they are stored.

Syamasundara dasa: Does the subconscious mind think like the conscious mind?

Srila Prabhupada: No, but the impressions are there and they may suddenly come to the surface.

Syamasundara dasa: For Jung, there are two types of subconscious states. One is the personal unconscious, consisting of those personal items stored from our individual childhood, a repressed history of stored impressions that can be aroused to consciousness in dreams and through psychoanalysis. the second is what Jung calls the collective unconscious, consisting of the collective experience of the race, archetypal images passed on from generation to generation, and common to men all over the globe.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we might even call that tradition. Of course, we emphasize parampara, which is different. Parampara means receiving proper knowledge from the Supreme. this is not something archetypal. Archetypes may change, but the knowledge received from Krsna is different. Spiritual knowledge imparted in Bhagavad-gita is not knowledge coming from tradition. Rather, we learn it from a great authority like Krsna.

Hayagriva dasa: Jung could see that the soul is always longing for light, and he wrote of the urge within the soul to rise out of primal darkness, making note of the pent-up feelings in the eyes of primitive people, and even a certain sadness in the eyes of animals, “a poignant message which speaks to us out of that existence.”

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, every living entity, including man, is constitutionally a servant. Therefore everyone is seeking some master, and that is our natural propensity. You can often see a puppy attempt to take shelter of some boy or man, and that is his natural tendency. He is saying, “Give me shelter. Keep me as your friend.” A child or a man also wants some shelter in order to be happy. that is our constitutional position. When we attain the human form, when our consciousness is developed, we should take Krsna as our shelter and our leader. In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna tells us that if we want shelter and guidance, we should take Him. “Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender to Me.” (Bg. 18.66) This is the ultimate instruction of Bhagavad-gita.

Syamasundara dasa: Jung would say that our understanding of Krsna as the Supreme Father and the cause of all causes is an archetypal understanding that is shared by all humans. People may represent Him in different ways, but the archetype is the same.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, it is exactly the same. Krsna, or God, is the Supreme Father. A father has many sons, and all men are son of God, born of their father. This is an experience common to everyone at all times.

Syamasundara dasa: There are certain common archetypes in the dream life of all men, and even similar symbols found among the Incas of South America, or the Vaisnavas of India, or inhabitants of the Pacific Islands. Could this be due to a common ancestry in the original Vedic culture?

Srila Prabhupada: Vedic culture or no Vedic culture, there are many similarities experiencd in human existence. Becasue we are all living beings, the similarities are there. Every living being eats, sleeps, mates, fears, and dies. These are experiences common to everyone; therefore there must be similarities in representations, or whatever.

Syamasundara dasa: Jung believes that the unconscious sometimes energes in the form of a superiority or inferiority complex, by which we react in inhibited or arrogant fashions.

Srila Prabhupada: What are we, inferior or superior? In Krsna consciousness, we consider ourselves servants of God. We are not guided by impulses or complexes; we are guided directly by the superior.

Syamasundara dasa: Jung states that there are two basic attitudes; extrovertive and introvertive.

Srila Prabhupada: The introvert is called a muni becasue he is introspective. The extrovert is generally guided by rajas, the mode of passion.

Syamasundara dasa: The personality and behavior of a living entitiy are determined by the interaction between the unconscious and the conscious mind.

Srila Prabhupada: Full consciousness in Sanskrit is called jagaranam. Dreaming is called svapnah, and susuptih refers to no consciousness, as in an anesthetized state.

Syamasundara dasa: Jung would call the dreaming state the unconscious also. The contents of the unconscious spill over into the conscious mind during dreams.

Srila Prabhupada: I do not like the word “unconscious” because it implies lack of consciousness. In such a state, you can be cut open and not even know it. However, when you sleep or dream, a mere pinch will awake you. As I said before, “subconscious” is a better word.

Syamasundara dasa: Both Jung and Freud used the world “unconscious” to refer to the subconscious mind that determines our personality.

Srila Prabhupada: When the living entity is in the womb of the mother, he is unconscious. Death means remaining unconscious for seven or nine months. the living entity does not die; he simply remains unconscious for that duration. that is called susuptih. When you have an operation, an anesthetic is administered, and you are unconscious for a period. When the anesthetic wears off, you emerge into the dream state. That dream state is actually a state of consciousness. When you dream, the mind works.

Syamasundara dasa: Jung believes that if we don’t awaken to the many unconscious factors governing our personality, we will remain slaves to our unconscious life. The point of psychoanalysis is to reveal them to us and enable us to face them.

Srila Prabhupada: That is what we are teaching.We say that presently the soul is in an unconscious stae, and we are telling the soul, “Please wake up! You are not this body!” It is possible to awaken the human being, but other living entities cannot be awakened. A tree, for instance, has consciousness, but he is so packed in matter that you cannot raise him to Krsna consciousness. Jagadish Candra Bose proved that a tree feels pain when it is cut, although this pain is very slightly manifest. A hman being, on the other hand, has developed consciousness, which is manifest in different stages. Lower life forms are more or less in a dream state, or unconscious.