Over 50 ? So when are YOU gonna take Sanyasa ,my dear Prabhu?

[krsna]

 

 

 

It's time for a real shake down.

Let's get real now,

give up all that hanky panky stuff

Sanyasa is where it's at!

Do it for God and country.

 

We need more safronites who canspread the word

and carry a big stick

OK?

*****************

 

SANYASIS

 

Sanyasis should abide by all the sastric rules of the sanyasis asrama. Alterations established by Srila Prabhupada and the previous Acaryas needed to be carefully examined and defined because there seems to be a great deal of confusion about the boundaries and allowable activities of those in this asrama. Srila Prabhupada wanted his sannyasis to avoid personally handling money, and to have no separate bank accounts. He approved of sannyasis having one strict brahmacary assistant taking care of their day-to-day arrangements, leaving the sannyasi free to study and preach. The Sannyasa should avoid traveling alone or being alone behind locked doors, thereby dispelling any suspicions about impropriety. He is a public person without private interests. As such, he should not have a fixed residence such as a house, apartment or ashram separate from ISKCON temples and community projects. A sannyasa should annually present to the GBC a report detailing the preaching accomplishments for the previous year, and preaching plans for the upcoming year. He should cooperatively work with the local GBC, coordinating the local preaching. Ideally, he should not be restricted to any zone, and should be welcomed in all temples. He should, as much as possible, maintain the external appearance of a sanyasa: appropriate dress, shaven head, danda, and proper body weight. A sannyasis should become very well versed in all the important Vaisnava literatures and be able to expertly present the philosophy. There are some interesting conversations in which Srila Prabhupada expressed a desire to introduce the varnasrama stages of sannyas: bahudak, kuticak, parabrajacarya and paramahansa. These conversations should be researched and studied.

[theist]

The pressure was on until I realized I'm probably more of the avadhuta type.

 

joking folks

[Kulapavana]

let us not forget that sannyasa is reserved for true brahmanas only. in the Vedic society other varnas NEVER take sannyasa. ISKCON sannyasis fall down also because very few of them are brahmanas by nature. and only very, very renounced brahmanas should take sannyasa before they turn 50.

 

and lastly: 50 years of age is a general time frame for vanaprastha, not sannyasa, which generally starts at 75.

 

sannyasa is a very serious and sanctified business. some people in the past turned it into an ego trip and an outright joke. that is not our tradition.

[Govindaram]

 

Vedic society other varnas NEVER take sannyasa

--

 

What? I don't think thats true, don't Kstriyas take sannyasa? Hare Krsna

[Kulapavana]

no. you will not find any non-brahmana sannyasis in the Vedic literature. kshatriyas may retire into the forest to live the life of a hermit (sometimes accompanied by their wife), but that is NOT the same as sannyasa (which of course involves sannyasa initiation, mantra, etc)

[theist]

This brings up a long standing confusing point for me. (one of many I admit).

 

Why is Sannyasa still being offered in this tradition? Didn't Lord Caitanya say it was forbidden in this age. And yet He took it also.

 

Kulapavana? JNdas? Anybody know?

[Kulapavana]

it is still done for social considerations IF it can be seen as important in preaching, especially in India. in India people still take the message coming from a sannyasi much more seriously than if it comes from some humble babaji.

 

personally, the biggest confusion for me is why SP gave sannyasa to so many obviously less than worthy young (in terms of both age and devotion) men? the disasters that followed seem like too high of a price to pay for any benefit in spreading the Mission. But then again, the actions of a pure devotee are unfathomable...

[Govindaram]

 

Vaishnava's are above Brahmanas.

 

If a Vaisya/Sudra/Ksatriya Is a Vaishnava..

 

would they be able to take Sannyasa?

 

It makes sense doesn't it?

 

[Kulapavana]

remember the VARNA - Ashrama system set-up by Krishna for ALL to follow?

 

you cannot separate the two. when you consider ashramas you MUST consider varna as well. the line "Vaishnava's are above Brahmanas" and similar catchy phrases (all basically saying that as devotees we are exempt form any material considerations) have been used in the past to justify all kinds of nonsense... lets not even go there.

[AncientMariner]

 

In the Kali-yuga isn't there an absence to almost complete non-existence of brahmanas? If only true brahmanas take sannyasa and in the Kali-yuga there are very few brahmanas is that why Krsna has forbidden sannyasa in the Kali-yuga because he foresaw all the havoc that would be created by people taking sannyasa when not really qualified to do so?

[Kulapavana]

yes, we can all see the havoc created by people taking sannyasa when not really qualified to do so, and that is why this general rule is there...

 

true brahmanas are rare even outside Kali-yuga. but we see them even now from time to time.

 

Kali-yugas happen all the time here on Bhu-mandala and they pretty much all look alike. often, sages describing Kali-yugas are not really making predictions: they speak from experience.

[theist]

So what would be considered the essence of sannyas? After the cloth and danda are taken away what is the essential quality that must remain?

[Kulapavana]

the rules of sannyasa are well known. in essence, it is a full surrender to Krishna, a complete renunciation of all posessions (like house, bank account, keeping just one set of basic clothing, etc) and complete separation from female company. And no going back... Sannyasi's time is fully spent on service to Krishna (shravanam, kirtanam, Vishnu smaranam, etc).

 

That essential renunciation can be done by non-brahmanas as well, but they should not wear safran and carry a danda. They can become like babajis - humble renunciates with no formal vows - a vanaprastha stage. No need to show off your renunciation by wearing safran. And if you find it to hard to live like that and go back to the relative security of your family - there is no scandal, no shame and no offense to the institution of sannyasa.

[stonehearted]

The essence of trindadi sannyasa, according to Srila Prabhupada, is that one's thoughts, words, and activities be dedicated solely for the service of Krishna. Regardless of outward dress or other social considerations, such a surrendered soul is a real sannyasi.

 

There is some utility for a few qualified devotees to take sannyasa, even these days. As Kulapavana wrote earlier, sannyasa is sometimes helpful for encouraging others to take preaching seriously. This only works in the long run when the sannyasis are mature and have some real spiritual advancement. Some of our Godbrothers are training young men for sannyasa (I know that Sripad B. G. Narasingha Maharaja has given sannyasa to the son of one of my Godbrothers and is training another of my Godbrother's sons at his ashram near Mysore), and others are trying to prepare more a few mature men who have long success at famly life for sannyasa. There should be no big rush for sannyasa, since it's unlikely society could really support a lot of sannyasis. There certainly is a great need in society, however, for large numbers of devotees whose thoughts, words, and deeds are dedicated solely to practicing Krishna consciousness and helping others deveolop an appreciation for the teachings of Lord Chaitanya.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Why is Sannyasa still being offered in this tradition? Didn't Lord Caitanya say it was forbidden in this age. And yet He took it also.

 

 

The sannyasa forbidden in the age of Kali is known as karma-sannyasa, renouncing all action externally by going to the forest and isolating oneself.

 

Vaishnava sannyasa, where one performs all actions for spreading Krishna consciousness, is practiced in all vaishnava sampradayas.

 

The following two quotations from Srila Prabhupada explain this:

 

 

Therefore in this age sannyasa is sometimes forbidden. Kalau panca vivarjayet. But if you ask that “Why you have taken sannyasa?” or “You have got some sannyasis,” this sannyasa is not karma-sannyasa. This sannyasa is devotion, Vaishnava sannyasa. Vaishnava sannyasi means anyone who gives up everything and devotes simply his time for pushing on Krishna consciousness movement, he is also sannyasa.

 

 

 

Krishna defines sannyasa as follows: “One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no work” (Bg. 6.1).

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Srila Prabhupada:

 

The brahmana, one who is qualified as a brahmana, he has to observe the four asramas, a brahmana: the brahmacari-asrama, the grihastha-asrama, the vanaprastha-asrama and sannyasa-asrama. The kshatriya, they’ll have to observe three asramas: brahmacari, grihastha and vanaprastha. And the vaisyas, two asramas: brahmacari and grihastha. And sudra, only one asrama, only grihastha. A sudra is never offered sannyasa. A... Only the brahmana is offered.

So in Sankara-sampradaya, strictly, unless one is born in brahmana family, he’s not offered sannyasa. He’s not given sannyasa. So far we are concerned, we also offer sannyasa to the brahmana, not to the sudras. But according to quality we create brahmana, not that we are offering sannyasa to the sudras, No. The principle is: sannyasa can be offered only to the brahmanas. So one may not mistake that we are offering to the..., offering sannyasa to the mlecchas, yavanas, as they complain. Some of my Godbrothers, they criticize like that, that I am offering sannyasa to the mlecchas, yavanas. This is wrong idea. This is naraki-buddhi. Actually, a Vaishnava is above this varnasrama-dharma. But we don’t claim that we have become perfect Vaishnava. We are not so impudent. We want to remain under the Vaishnava. Under the Vaishnava. Otherwise Vaishnava means... In Caitanya-caritamrita you’ll find the Vaishnava is paramahamsa. Vaishnava has no . cloth. Vaishnava is white cloth because Vaishnava is paramahamsa, above. But we don’t claim the position of Vaishnava. We want to remain servant of Vaishnava. Therefore sannyasa order is below the position of Vaishnava. Sannyasa order means still in the material classification. But this Vaishnava is paramo nirmatsaranam satam.

 

 

[AncientMariner]

In other Yugas is karma-sannyasa allowed?

[krsna]

 

The essence of trindadi sannyasa, according to Srila Prabhupada, is that one's thoughts, words, and activities be dedicated solely for the service of Krishna. Regardless of outward dress or other social considerations, such a surrendered soul is a real sannyasi.

 

There is some utility for a few qualified devotees to take sannyasa, even these days. As Kulapavana wrote earlier, sannyasa is sometimes helpful for encouraging others to take preaching seriously. This only works in the long run when the sannyasis are mature and have some real spiritual advancement. Some of our Godbrothers are training young men for sannyasa (I know that Sripad B. G. Narasingha Maharaja has given sannyasa to the son of one of my Godbrothers and is training another of my Godbrother's sons at his ashram near Mysore), and others are trying to prepare more a few mature men who have long success at famly life for sannyasa. There should be no big rush for sannyasa, since it's unlikely society could really support a lot of sannyasis. There certainly is a great need in society, however, for large numbers of devotees whose thoughts, words, and deeds are dedicated solely to practicing Krishna consciousness and helping others deveolop an appreciation for the teachings of Lord Chaitanya.

 

Real Sannyasis are fully surrendered souls that have no seperate interest. They fully know Krsna's will and act in this world to carry it out.

[Guest guest]

varna-ashrama dharma is material. The obssession with the particularities of its age-dependent traditions can be a dangerous distraction to the goal - to become a pure servant of Krsna.

[Guruvani]

sounds like a formula for unleashing a large phalanx of bogus tyagis on the world creating an ever worse image of the Hare Krishna people than there already is.

 

forget about the mass costume party.

 

just quietly and privately give up material illusions without all the fanfare and groupies.

 

it's about time to end the era of the saffron sickos and their sychopants. (psychopants)?

 

just go away and give up your maya and your hopes to exchange it for some prestige and position in the Hare Krishna society.

 

it's about time the white ragged ascetics start replace the saffron sickos and the jet-set Swamis.

[Guest guest]

One doennt "TAKE" and varna or asrama. These are natural catagories. "Taking" something means leaving it somewhere else. This is the problem, either one is goswami, or godasa. Has nothing to do with any ceremony, awrd, or anything of the kind. A householder can be goswami, though he probabvly would not accept such a TITLE.

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada,

 

 

THE VANAPRASTHAS AND SANNYASIS NOWADAYS ARE THOSE WHO WERE UNSUCCESSFUL IN FAMILY LIFE. THUS THE SO-CALLED SANNYASIS TRY TO CONSTRUCT ANOTHER HOME IN THE NAME OF THE SANNYASA-ASRAMA AND GLIDE DOWN INTO ALL SORTS OF LUXURY AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. SO ALL THESE VARNAS AND ASRAMAS HAVE NOW BECOME SO MANY TRANSCENDENTAL FRAUDS.

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada

 

 

SB 3.24.34 P

Actually, sannyasa, or renunciation of material household life, necessitates complete absorption in Krsna consciousness and immersion in the self. ONE DOES NOT TAKE SANNYASA, FREEDOM FROM FAMILY RESPONSIBILITY IN THE RENOUNCED ORDER OF LIFE, TO MAKE ANOTHER FAMILY OR TO CREATE AN EMBARRASSING TRANSCENDENTAL FRAUD IN THE NAME OF SANNYASA. THE SANNYASI'S BUSINESS IS NOT TO BECOME PROPRIETOR OF SO MANY THINGS AND AMASS MONEY FROM THE INNOCENT PUBLIC.

[Guruvani]

Srila Prabhupada,

 

 

In this age, devotional service of hearing and repeating the holy glories of the Lord is strongly recommended, and one who takes the vow of renunciation of family life need not imitate the parivrajakacarya like Narada or Lord Caitanya, BUT MAY SIT DOWN AT SOME HOLY PLACE AND DEVOTE HIS WHOLE TIME AND ENERGY TO HEAR AND REPEATEDLY CHANT THE HOLY SCRIPTURES LEFT BY THE GREAT ACARYAS LIKE THE SIX GOSVAMIS OF VRNDAVANA.

[Guest guest]

Nobody used the phrase "take varna or asrama" or even implied it.

Whether it's natural for somebody to become homeless after fifty is a cultural question. It doesn't work in the Western cultures, where that 'natural' asrama is not recognized. This is not Vedic culture and the idea of walking around in saffron robes (an Indian custom hardly natural to North America) is impractical and weird.

If it's natural then the whole discussion is moot. People will 'naturally' enter into these varnas and asramas. No need of instruction or social pressure.

In any case - it's all material prabhu.

 

 

One doennt "TAKE" and varna or asrama. These are natural catagories. "Taking" something means leaving it somewhere else. This is the problem, either one is goswami, or godasa. Has nothing to do with any ceremony, awrd, or anything of the kind. A householder can be goswami, though he probabvly would not accept such a TITLE.