the execution of Nick Berg in Iraq : killed by "terrorists" or others?

[Guest guest]

First he was held by the military and intelligence agencies, then the moment he was released he is kidnapped by the "leader" and "most dangerous" terrorist in the world ?

 

 

I don't buy it.

 

although it may be a revenge killing it is just as likely a CIA/private firm murder to try and make the torture scandal seem justified.

 

If you dont think that they are capable of such actions...welcome to the real world, you know... that place where these guys are murdering women and children daily for control over iraqi oil, that place where snipers in helicopters and minarets shoot civilians daily for sport, that place where the only law is the law of the jackboot in your groin.

 

Your reactions are what they want, horror at the dirty infidel...they deserve what they get i.e. torture, murder, homes razed, fields burned, family members disappear, etc.

 

Don't think these guys aren't capable of a beheading of an american, remember fragging ? American soldiers of fortune are not known for their cuddly sides, they are trained killers who are then killed off to ensure silence, Why do you think that there are so many "private contractors" better known as mercenaries over there ? they do the dirty work that the government can't trust official U.S. soldiers or spys to do, these guys get orders from their companies, if they decide to talk they have no direct connection to a U.S. authority,[for over a thousand dollars a day, they wont talk] they are hired as "security" by "private companies", they are there to protect the civilian companies...yeah and monkeys might fly out of me bum.

 

 

Don't let the propaganda matrix fool you, Al Queda is a tool of american elites, ever ask yourself why would a "terrorist" org attack the U.S ? isn't that sooo so stupid ?

 

What does Al Queda gain from attacking the U.S. ?

 

Nothing but trouble, their "cause" is what ? to take over the world ?

And they will accomplish this by acts of bombing and killing insignificant people ?

 

How do you figure ?

 

If an organization with sufficient funding wanted to affect change through violence they would not attack civilians nor would they want to do anything that would publicly give notice as to who they are or what their goals are.

 

why ?

 

First: By publicly stating that they wish to kill civilians to force their religious views on the world the result will obiously be that everyone in the world who is not of that belief will hate them, this is not what they would want, rather they would want the mass of people to side with them as being victims themselves, so attacking civilians would be verboten.

 

Second: They would not want any act of violence to be attributed to them, this is common sense in a war of ideas, the group that would want to change society over to their way of thinking would defintely see any negative attribution to their group as anathema, it could only harm their cause and have everyone against them.

 

Third: If you are in control of a country ( Afghanistan ) and everyone knows where that is and your supposed target has an immense military and the predisposition to invade or bomb and take over your country with relative ease, it would be unthinkable to attack that country openly and then brag about it, it would accomplish only one thing, only a complete idiot would walk up to a group of giant thugs and spit in their faces, the result is obvious.

 

Fourth: If you really wanted to change the hearts and minds of the world to your cause and decided to resort to violence you would NEVER attack anybody but the leaders themselves, and do it quietly.

 

Fifth: You would NEVER openly take credit or advertise your violent acts, what would that serve ? not your cause.

 

So we see that Al Queda has broken all these essential rules, why ?

 

We can only conclude that they are the creation of those who need an excuse to colonize that part of the world and need public sympathy to get away with it.

 

If you don't know why the iraq war is going on: think dollars vs the euro and the absolute necessity to control oil production in order that the dollar's value

is maintained, in the 70's OPEC made a deal with the U.S. to only accept dollars

from all countries who wanted to buy oil, this forced other countries to aquire dollars

thereby keeping the value of the dollar and the associated securities market very high,

Saddam (and others, an example is being made of iraq's disobedience) posed a threat by deciding to accept the euro which would cause the dollar to plummet.

 

 

The following is from BUSH'S REAL REASON FOR WAR:OIL, PETRODOLLARS, AND THE OPEC EURO QUESTION

 

'As early as April 1997, a report from the James A. Baker Institute of Public Policy at Rice University addressed the problem of "energy security" for the United States, and noted that the US was increasingly threatened by oil shortages in the face of the inability of oil supplies to keep up with world demand. In particular the report addressed "The Threat of Iraq and Iran" to the free flow of oil out of the Middle East. It concluded that Saddam Hussein was still a threat to Middle Eastern security and still had the military capability to exercise force beyond Iraq's borders.

 

The Bush Administration returned to this theme as soon as it took office in 2001, by following the lead of a second report from the same Institute. This Task Force Report was co-sponsored by the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, another group historically concerned about US access to overseas oil resources. The Report represented a consensus of thinking among energy experts of both political parties, and was signed by Democrats as well as Republicans.

 

The report, Strategic Energy Policy Challenges for the 21st Century, concluded: "The United States remains a prisoner of its energy dilemma. Iraq remains a de-stabilizing influence to ... the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export program to manipulate oil markets. Therefore the US should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/ diplomatic assessments.

 

Dominance of Middle Eastern oil will mean in effect maintaining dollar hegemony over the world oil economy. Given its present strategies, the US is constrained to demand no less. As I explain in this extract from my book, Drugs, Oil, and War (pp. 41-42, 53-54), the present value of the US dollar, unjustified on purely economic grounds, is maintained by political arrangements, one of the chief of which is to ensure that all OPEC oil purchases will continue to be denominated in US dollars. (This commitment of OPEC to dollar oil sales was secured in the 1970s by a secret agreement between the US and Saudi Arabia, before the two countries began to drift apart over Israel and other issues.)

 

The chief reason why dollars are more than pieces of green paper is that countries all over the world need them for purchases, principally of oil. This requires them in addition to maintain dollar reserves to protect their own currency; and these reserves, when invested, help maintain the current high levels of the US securities markets. "

 

""World trade is now a game in which the US produces dollars and the rest of the world produces things that dollars can buy. The world's interlinked economies no longer trade to capture a comparative advantage; they compete in exports to capture needed dollars to service dollar-denominated foreign debts and to accumulate dollar reserves to sustain the exchange value of their domestic currencies. To prevent speculative and manipulative attacks on their currencies, the world's central banks must acquire and hold dollar reserves in corresponding amounts to their currencies in circulation. The higher the market pressure to devalue a particular currency, the more dollar reserves its central bank must hold. This creates a built-in support for a strong dollar that in turn forces the world's central banks to acquire and hold more dollar reserves, making it stronger. This phenomenon is known as dollar hegemony, which is created by the geopolitically constructed peculiarity that critical commodities, most notably oil, are denominated in dollars. Everyone accepts dollars because dollars can buy oil. The recycling of petro-dollars is the price the US has extracted from oil-producing countries for US tolerance of the oil-exporting cartel since 1973.

 

"By definition, dollar reserves must be invested in US assets, creating a capital-accounts surplus for the US economy. Even after a year of sharp correction, US stock valuation is still at a 25-year high and trading at a 56 percent premium compared with emerging markets."

[Guest guest]

Nick Berg. Your case would be stronger if you had the basic facts straight. That's not to say you're wrong; I know better than to be so naive. I just want to point out that you have the wrong name for the victim.

[Guest guest]

Debunking conspiracy theorists' paranoid fantasies about Sept. 11

 

 

 

This work may be freely copied and distributed without permission as long as it not for commercial use. Please include the author's name, the web address where you found it and the copyright notice.

 

[by Gerard Holmgren debunker@hotmail.com

 

Copyright Gerard Holmgren. Jan 2003.

 

http://www.911-strike.com/index.htm ]

 

 

Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one ,often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. "The CIA killed Hendrix The Pope had John Lennon murdered ", "Hitler was half Werewolf", "Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.

 

So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.

 

One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."

 

Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.

 

Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.

 

These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush

 

regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours ,crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.

 

The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposturous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.

 

It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog , they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (ill)logical conclusions.

 

According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns,knives,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.

 

The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.

 

"Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"

 

"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."

 

"Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."

 

Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time ,the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis.They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.

 

Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated,and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?"

 

"You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on...

 

Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion , the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story.

 

"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? " The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...

 

This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive" , in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world). There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor.

 

Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.

 

Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously), but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.

 

So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms" , it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behavior - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.

 

It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist , too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable.

 

Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.

 

Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.

 

There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosine,and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 C has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vapourizing 65 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 15 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of kerosine - let alone the boiling point - which is what would be required to vapourize a plane. And then there's about 50 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosine.

 

For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as "mumbo jumbo". This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosine, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vapourized into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins.

 

"Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact." they state with pompous certainty. "Watch any Bruce Willis movie."

 

 

"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies ?"

 

At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip.

 

"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin.

 

Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vapourized into nothing.

 

"But not big planes, with that much fuel ", they shriek in hysterical denial.

 

Or that much metal to vapourize.

 

"Yes but not hijacked planes!"

 

"Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?"

 

"Now you're just being silly".

 

Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground,or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourize into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact."

 

Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves ( if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourization of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit. loop...

 

But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosine. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant veritcal collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosine.

 

For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosine which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vapourizing a 65 ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosine is enough to

 

:completely vapourize a 65 ton aircraft

 

:have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel )

 

:still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building.

 

This kerosine really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosine heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourized. And never again will I take kerosine lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vapourized into nothing along with with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire.

 

These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosine melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire -therefore, not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.

 

Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.

 

Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and re-defined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way?

 

The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course.

 

Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why.

 

 

"Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir"

 

"No miss, the kerosine heater blew up and vapourized everything in the street, except for my passport."

 

"You see sir, the schoolbus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms."

 

Or perhaps they misunderstood the term "creative science" and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.

 

The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly kerosine was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat. (Although 2000 C isn't really required, 100C will generally do the job.) This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city.

 

That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourize a 65 ton aircraft.

 

You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vapourized by the fuel tank explosion maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.

 

So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time.

 

This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space inbetween. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 ft deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat circular hole of about a 12 ft diameter through three rings ( six walls).A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible.

 

But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well ? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is "mumbo jumbo". It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it "must be wrong" although trying to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour.

 

Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned.They nervously maintain that the plane was vapourized by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior. (That's a wonderful fruit loop.) Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 ft deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage). As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.

 

When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an "irrecoverable angle." How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.

 

Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.

 

As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.

 

At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on Sept 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in "retaliation" are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.

 

Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.

 

Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11.

[livingentity]

appear after every horror and I take them all with a grain of salt.

 

Theories...they are just theories but soon become "facts" in many peoples minds because they hear what they think they want to hear.

 

My "theory" (LOL) is that these consipiracy theories are all started by the opposition of whatever it is that is going on to plant seeds of doubts.

 

waste of time....these government conspiracy theories almost remind me of those supermarket tabloids. Eyecatching, maybe even a bit interesting but in the end nothing.

 

 

[Guest guest]

http://www.911-strike.com/kupferberg.htm

 

India, pakistan and the FBI:birth and growth of a "legend", powerfull stuff.

[Kulapavana]

in a way it does not matter which group of asuras is responsible. but it IS important to recognize asuric activities in order to separate yourself from them.

 

the common belief that things are what they are painted to be by the media is very naive. especially when you have first hand experience to the contrary. and to deny that there are powerfull demonic forces at play in Kali-yuga is very foolish for a devotee.

 

many karmis look at what we say about the world and laugh it off as silliness. they do it out of ignorance. try to avoid making the same mistake. read what the Vedas say about Kali-yuga and study the current world situations in their light. it will be quite an eye opener.

 

certainly, not every conspiracy theory turns out to be true (actually, very few of them do) and not every press release is a piece of demonic propaganda. but dealing with powerful asuras you can certainly expect clever deception. rakshasas walk this earth in Kali-yuga, that is a FACT.

[ancient_paztriot]

It is a matter of power, but within that postion… they have access to you but not you to them. No wonder most conspiracies fizzle out.

 

But that power? Yeah. They can kill a story with a phone call. Or they can hire a bunch of trolls to cry, "Judas!"

[livingentity]

where you are coming from but for me it is just "theories" and speculations until proven otherwise.

 

Hare Krsna

[ancient_paztriot]

Sounds like the criterion materialists have for God… and us.

[ancient_paztriot]

SB 12.1.36

At that time the brahmanas of such provinces as Saurastra, Avanti, Äbhira, Sura, Arbuda and Malava will forget all their regulative principles, and the members of the royal order in these places will become no better than sudras.

 

SB 12.1.37

The land along the Sindhu River, as well as the districts of Candrabhaga, Kaunti and Kasmira, will be ruled by sudras, fallen brahmanas and meat-eaters. Having given up the path of Vedic civilization, they will have lost all spiritual strength.

 

SB 12.1.38

There will be many such uncivilized kings ruling at the same time, O King Pariksit, and they will all be uncharitable, possessed of fierce tempers, and great devotees of irreligion and falsity.

 

SB 12.1.39-40

These barbarians in the guise of kings will devour the citizenry, murdering innocent women, children, cows and brahmanas and coveting the wives and property of other men. They will be erratic in their moods, have little strength of character and be very short-lived. Indeed, not purified by any Vedic rituals and lacking in the practice of regulative principles, they will be completely covered by the modes of passion and ignorance.

 

PURPORT

These verses give a concise, accurate description of the fallen leaders of this age.

 

SB 12.1.41

The citizens governed by these low-class kings will imitate the character, behavior and speech of their rulers. Harassed by their leaders and by each other, they will all suffer ruination.

 

PURPORT

At the end of the Ninth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, it is stated that Ripunjaya, or Puranjaya, the first king mentioned in this chapter, ended his rule about one thousand years after the time of Lord Krsna. Since Lord Krsna appeared approximately five thousand years ago, Puranjaya must have appeared about four thousand years ago. That would mean that Visvasphurji, the last king mentioned, would have appeared approximately in the twelfth century of the Christian era.

 

Modern Western scholars have made the false accusation that Indian religious literature has no sense of chronological history. But the elaborate historical chronology described in this chapter certainly refutes that naive assessment.

 

Thus end the purports of the humble servants of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to the Twelfth Canto, First Chapter, of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, entitled “The Degraded Dynasties of Kali-yuga.”

[ancient_paztriot]

Krsna is The Cat. His name was Nrsimhadeva.

 

He loves to play 'fate' with these demons.

 

Everyone thought Hiranyakasipu was indestructable… And he had alot more going for him than the modern clowns who interface with some expensive machine you don't have and think their supermen.

[theist]

Have fun

 

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html

[Guest guest]

15 Anomalies Surrounding

Death Of Nick Berg

What Really Happened.com Letters

5-14-4

 

 

Arab linguists have said the man posing as the Jordanian Zaraqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.

Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity.

Numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.

As any surgeon will testify, the alleged beheading was a fake. A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. There would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Furthermore, the cut was simply too neat to have been done crudely and with such amazing speed by a man wielding a knife. Anybody who has ever carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.

The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.

Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.

Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands.

The lack of spurting blood suggests Berg was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. It is possible Berg's dead body was displayed with his head already partially or totally severed. In any case, he almost certainly was killed before the staged beheading. If so, it suggests the captors had no stomach for an actual beheading of a living person, and they opted to fulfill their assignment quietly and with the least amount of gore.

The scream that is heard has been interpreted as a woman's scream by many viewers. Videotape cognoscenti have further said the scream was amateurishly added to the tape.

The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to inject an alleged al- Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg.

Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?

Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Gilal." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents almost universally use AK-47s.

The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law.

The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nick Berg. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. We have to conclude that either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.

The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.

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How the US CIA/Mililtary/Bush Administration Killed Another American

 

 

 

The liars in the Bush Administration were in another big mess.

 

It goes on and on and on and on.

 

From the farce that was 911 to the capturing and imprisonment (and later release) of Afghani goat herders in Guantanamo Bay while Bin Laden and his lieutenants were "escorted" to safety into Pakistan by their handlers - the CIA.

 

No ties between Hussein and Bin Laden (mortal enemies).

 

No weapons of Mass Destruction (We KNOW where they are).

 

We take down an "evil regime" and then put the same generals in charge in Fallujah.

 

We "liberate" the country by rounding up and torturing civilians. Rumsfeld goes before Congress on Wednesday (5/12) and says the Iraqi women who were raped and the children who were beaten and the 90% of all detainees who had to be released AFTER torture these all were "terrorists". Therefore, the Geneva Convention and rules of war do not apply to raping and torturing because these "terrorists" do not belong to an Army.

 

Everything was going South deservedly so and the Bush Administration needed help.

 

Enter poor Nick Berg.

 

Nick Berg was a telecommunications contractor who went into Iraq to "help". But he and his family were not unknown to US authorities.

 

On March 7, 2004, an 'enemies' list of anti-war groups and individuals was posted on the Free Republic.

 

Among those listed was this entry: "Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc." That's Nick Berg's father, Michael who acts as business manager for his son in their family radio communications firm, Prometheus Methods Tower Service.

 

Just days after "Michael Berg" and "Prometheus Methods Tower Service" had come up on that Iraq war 'enemies' list, his son Nick Berg returned to Iraq under the business name of Prometheus Methods Tower Service.

 

Nick was detained, first by Iraqi police, then for 13 days by the United States military in Iraq. He was in US custody and admittedly questioned by the FBI 3 separate times. They would not release him nor press charges nor let him speak to an attorney.

 

He was a "terrorist sympathizer" and detained in a US orange jumpsuit (like those in Guantanamo) and put in a cell with Syrians and Iraqis.

Yet they now claim Nick Berg was NEVER in US custody. Oh really?

 

To back its claims that Berg was in U.S. custody, the family gave The Associated Press copies of e-mails from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq.

 

"I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly,'' Payne wrote to Berg's father, Michael, on April 1. Payne repeated that Berg was "being detained by the U.S. military'' in an e-mail the same day to Berg's mother, Suzanne.

 

Frustrated by their inability to find out about their son's whereabouts, The Berg's filed a lawsuit in federal court in Philadelphia on April 5 asserting that their son was being held by the American military in violation of his civil rights.

 

"His parents contacted our office, the F.B.I., the State Department," said Representative Jim Gerlach, a Republican from Upper Uwchlan Township in Pennsylvania.

 

Representative Gerlach met with the Berg family on Tuesday. "They got very insufficient information,'' he said. "They felt that they were not getting full answers."

 

Nick Berg's father, Michael Berg was publicly furious, "I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused," he said. "I don't think this administration is committed to democracy."

 

The Berg's filed a lawsuit in federal court in Philadelphia on April 5. A day later, Nick Berg was released. He contacted his parents and told them that he was coming home. The following day he checked out of his hotel in Baghdad, and disappeared.

 

At the height of the US torture scandal, Nick Berg's body was "discovered" on Saturday May 8, having reportedly been decapitated the same day by muslim radicals specifically Al Queda.

And, almost miraculously, a video appears worldwide showing "Al Queda" in possession of Mr. Berg (somehow still wearing his orange jumpsuit) at which time he is supposedly beheaded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi whom Americans claim is Al Queda's lead man in Iraq. Not only does Al Queda record the video, but Zarqawi's name and "signature" appear on it.

 

Convenient? Oh, and how.

 

Yet there are many problems with this explanation.

 

Long ago, when trying to tie Al Queda with Iraq, Colin Powell claimed that Zarqawi was fitted with a prosthetic leg in a Baghdad hospital (which, at the time, was touted as being a major indication of a connection between al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussein).

 

Yet the killer in the video walks and moves around with both legs just fine. Zarqawi could not be the killer. So why would all the killers wear hoods to hide their identity, and then sign the video with their own name and call themselves Al Queda?

 

It never happened. As reported both by the London Telegraph and CNN (CNN Transcript) :

 

O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right, now one final thought here. You did a very careful translation of your own, of the statement. And in it, you see no reference to al Qaeda. And yet the official U.S. government translation does. Explain how that happened.

NASR: Oh, I find it very interesting, because out of the blue, there is a mention of al Qaeda on the U.S. government translation. It says: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" Any speaker of the Arabic language is going to notice a difference between the word al Qaeda, which means "the base," and al qaed, which means "the one sitting, doing nothing."

My translation says: "Is there any excuse for the one who sits down and does nothing?" Basically they're telling people, you have no excuse for not doing anything, for not acting and defending Islam and so forth. Whereas the U.S. government translation adds al Qaeda to the statement, which is not on the statement.

But it gets much, much worse.

 

The Berg video is a montage of two separate videos taken from two cameras. This is apparent from the time in the lower right-hand corner, which changes as the angle of the shot changes.

 

Notice on the right that Berg's head has been cut off at 13:47:49 (1:47) yet on the picture on the left, at 2:44 nearly an hour later he is sitting with his head intact!

 

In the video shown all over the world, the man in the middle (wearing all black) is the one who beheads Mr. Berg, but immediately when the head is held up, suddenly it changes to the man in the white mask.

 

Additionally, the audio is 7 seconds off from the video.

 

So what, you say?

 

So let's see, an American who is considered an enemy of the US war suddenly is taken prisoner in Iraq, which the US denies, until his family produces e-mails from the US office in Iraq and sues and then he is miraculously released though supposedly he wasn't in custody. Can the government ever tell the truth?

 

Then he disappears and resurfaces only as the US is in dire need of an incident to try to put to rest the coverage of their torture in Iraq.

 

Suddenly, a US enemy-of-the-state ends up in Al Queda's hands and not just their hands but the leaderships who signs a video saying he killed him though the guy who supposedly kills him has a prosthetic leg and the guy in the video clearly doesn't.

 

Then it's released all over the world that Al Queda did not claim to do this and that the US intentionally doctored the transcripts.

 

Why would a guy in US custody for weeks, after being released for a day and getting ready to go home, not take off the damned orange prison jumpsuit?

 

Why do the hooded "Al Queda" guys appear so white? Muslims say the accents are not middle eastern at all.

 

 

Does this guy look like an Arab?

 

 

Go back up and look at the "group of 5" arab Terrorists. Does their look and body language and white

Skin say arab or US military dressed in terrorist garb?

 

The only plausible alternative is a covert, black operation orchestrated as part of the seedier arm of US foreign policy --which generally only come to light when candid

photographs, for example, reach the public domain.

 

NBC news (Andrea Mitchell) reported on May 6 that special operations forces, including both Delta Force and Navy SEALs, were also involved in abusing prisoners in Iraq.

In order to cover themselves, the government has released information that Nick Berg was investigated during the 09/11 investigation for having ties to Zacharias Moussaoui. Supposedly, Moussaoui was using Berg's email address. Is it possible Nick is a member of the new formed Jewish Al Qaida?

 

The lies will keep coming from this administration until the people put a stop to it.

============================================================

 

1) The Time set on the Video is indicative to 24 hourtime and most Videos have a 2 stage setting one in regular standard time, ie: am-pm and one for 24 hr. time or MILITARYTIME!

My Question: Why would Terrorists find it relevant to set their time to Military Time? Would it be more likely that a US intel or military person or officer would have their video camera set to Military Time out of reflex of training? My answer is YES!

2) Why is the man on the far left standing at Parade Rest??

This seems further evidence the raises suspicions that these men were NOT Arab faction Terrorists! Parade Rest is also - and would be a REFLEX action - that is TRAINED into Military personnel and becomes a HABIT!

I find this Video Very, Very argumentive and points a STRONG finger at the US Intelligence communties complicitcy in the berg death.

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[Tarun]

Whatever they broadcast... at least that's not true.

They tell u what they want u to believe: Kaliyuga Custom