There are certainly many instances where devotees of the Lord have fallen down..

Govindaram · May 21, 2004

TRANSLATION

My dear Vyasa, even though a devotee of Lord Krishna sometimes falls down somehow or other, he certainly does not undergo material existence like others [fruitive workers, etc.] because a person who has once relished the taste of the lotus feet of the Lord can do nothing but remember that ecstasy again and again.

PURPORT

A devotee of the Lord automatically becomes uninterested in the enchantment of material existence because he is rasa-graha, or one who has tasted the sweetness of the lotus feet of Lord Krishna. There are certainly many instances where devotees of the Lord have fallen down due to uncongenial association, just like fruitive workers, who are always prone to degradation. But even though he falls down, a devotee is never to be considered the same as a fallen karmi. A karmi suffers the result of his own fruitive reactions, whereas a devotee is reformed by chastisement directed by the Lord Himself. The sufferings of an orphan and the sufferings of a beloved child of a king are not one and the same. An orphan is really poor because he has no one to take care of him, but a beloved son of a rich man, although he appears to be on the same level as the orphan, is always under the vigilance of his capable father. A devotee of the Lord, due to wrong association, sometimes imitates the fruitive workers. The fruitive workers want to lord it over the material world. Similarly, a neophyte devotee foolishly thinks of accumulating some material power in exchange for devotional service. Such foolish devotees are sometimes put into difficulty by the Lord Himself. As a special favor, He may remove all material paraphernalia. By such action, the bewildered devotee is forsaken by all friends and relatives, and so he comes to his senses again by the mercy of the Lord and is set right to execute his devotional service.

In the Bhagavad-gita it is also said that such fallen devotees are given a chance to take birth in a family of highly qualified brahmanas or in a rich mercantile family. A devotee in such a position is not as fortunate as one who is chastised by the Lord and put into a position seemingly of helplessness. The devotee who becomes helpless by the will of the Lord is more fortunate than those who are born in good families. The fallen devotees born in a good family may forget the lotus feet of the Lord because they are less fortunate, but the devotee who is put into a forlorn condition is more fortunate because he swiftly returns to the lotus feet of the Lord, thinking himself helpless all around.

Pure devotional service is so spiritually relishable that a devotee becomes automatically uninterested in material enjoyment. That is the sign of perfection in progressive devotional service. A pure devotee continuously remembers the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krishna and does not forget Him even for a moment, not even in exchange for all the opulence of the three worlds.

_____

krsna · May 21, 2004

GURU CAN FALL:

Cc Madhya 24.330 purp

The spiritual master should study the disciple's inquisitiveness for no less than six months or a year. A spiritual master should not be very anxious to accept a disciple because of his material opulences. Sometimes a big businessman or landlord may approach a spiritual master for initiation.

Those who are materially interested are called visayis (karmis), which indicates that they are very fond of sense gratification. Such visayis sometimes approach a famous guru and ask to become a disciple just as a matter of fashion.

Sometimes visayis pose as disciples of a reputed spiritual master just to cover their activities and advertise themselves as advanced in spiritual knowledge. In other words, they want to attain material success. A spiritual master must be very careful in this regard. Such business is going on all over the world.

The spiritual master does not accept a materially opulent disciple just to advertise the fact that he has such a big disciple. He knows that by associating with such visayi disciples, he may fall down. One who accepts a visayi disciple is not a bona fide spiritual master. Even if he is, his position may be damaged due to association with an unscrupulous visayi.

Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.36,

Tokyo, January 30, 1974

But when one leaves a spiritual master, the spiritual master, there may be some reason. That reason is also given in the sastra, gurur api avaliptasya karyakaryam ajanatah(?). Karya akarya. If the spiritual master does not know what is actually to be done, what is actually not to be done, and he acts against the rules and regulations of the sastra, then such spiritual master may be given up. But so long you do not find the spiritual master is doing against the principles of sastra or guru, then if you give up the company of spiritual master, that is not good for you. That is your downfall.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta in The Harmonist,

December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6

"If a preceptor accepts as his disciple one who refuses to be wholly guided by him, or if a disciple submits to a preceptor who is not wholly good, such preceptor and such disciple are, both of them, doomed to fall from their spiritual state."

"The disciple retains the right of renouncing his allegiance to the preceptor the moment he is satisfied that the preceptor is a fallible creature like himself. Nor does a good preceptor accept any one as his disciple unless the latter is prepared to submit to him freely."

From Hari-nama-cintamani

by Thakura Bhaktivinoda

Sastha pariccheda: Gurvavagya Kon sthane guru tyaga korite haibe-

Now I will discuss the situation when one can give up one's spiritual master.

Tave jodi erupa ghatana kabhu haya.

Asatsange gurura jogyata haya ksaya..

It unfortunately happens sometimes that by bad association, the spiritual master looses his qualifications.

Prathame chilena tini sadguru-pradhana.

Pare nama-aparadhe haina hatagyana..

In the beginning when the guru gave initiation to the disciple, he was sadguru-pradhana or a very qualified bona-fide spiritual master but later due to get involved with the ten offenses, his knowledge was diminished.

Vaisnava vidvaya kori' chadi' nama-rasa.

Krame krame hana artha-kaminira basa..

He gave up relishing the chanting of the Holy Names due to his envy towards the Vaisnavas. Due to this he gradually came under the control of the desires for money and women.

Sei guru chadi' sisya Sri Krsnakrpaya.

Sadguru labhiya punah suddhanama gaya..

One should reject such guru and again accept an advanced bonafide spiritual master and thus again relish the pure chanting of the Holy Name.

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in Jaiva Dharma;

Chapter 20, page 213

He explains the second instance in which one should reject his spiritual master.

dvitiya karana ei ye. guru-varana samaye gurudeva vaisnava o tattvajna chilena, kintu sanga-dose pare mayavadi va vaisnava- vidvesi hoiya jan; erupa guruke partyaga kara kartavya; grhita guru yadi mayavadi va vaisnava-vidvesi va papasakta The second instance in which one may reject the guru is when the guru was at the time of one's initiation a Vaisnava conversant in the Absolute Truth but later due to bad association became a mayavadi or an offender to the Vaisnavas.

That guru should be rejected.

LIBERATED SOULS CAN FALL:

SB 5.188.4 purp

A liberated soul is a person who has sufficient knowledge of this material world and is therefore unattached to the bodily conception of life.

But because of association with the modes of material nature for a very long time, even liberated souls sometimes become captivated by the illusory energy due to inattentiveness in the transcendental position.

MAHA-BHAGAVATA CAN FALL:

Cc Adi 7.110 purp The Mayavadi philosophers have presented their arguments in such attractive, flowery language that hearing Mayavada philosophy may sometimes change the mind of even a maha-bhagavata, or very advanced devotee.

SB 5.7.1 bharatas tu maha-bhagavato SB 5.8 Summary Although Bharata Maharaja was very elevated, he fell down due to his attachment to a young deer.

vanamali · May 21, 2004

Devotees fall, but Krishna Himself declares "my devotee never perishes"

We may fall, but this is why gives us not only second chances, but third, fourth, fifth, billionth and trillionth chances, as birth after birth we come to Him.

Cinta mat karo, prabhuji!