Sound of the universe a primal scream?

[Guest guest]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/06/02/primal.scream/index.html

 

Mark Whittle, an astronomer at the University of Virginia, based the work on a "wonderful gift from Nature," the cosmic microwave background, CMB, that was unleashed when the universe was about 380,000 years old. At that point in time, a dense fog began to clear and radiation was first allowed to escape its natal cocoon.

 

Other studies have generated sound clips out of data from the universe and even from our own solar system. But none have reached so far back in time and space.

 

Whittle first figured out the sound at the time of the cosmic microwave radiation itself. Then he and colleagues made some assumptions about the dense state of things before the CMB and modeled the sound that likely occurred in the interval between the Big Bang and the release of the CMB.

 

Sound would have traveled easily through the early cosmos, he explained, because the more compact universe was denser, like a hot, thin atmosphere.

 

"If we want to access times before and after the microwave background, we have to make use of computer simulations," Whittle said here today at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society.

 

The simulations generated a growing hiss that resembles a roaring jet plane flying low overhead. It represents the first million years of the cosmos and it is compressed into about 5 seconds for easy listening.

 

"I was relieved," Whittle said. "I didn't want the universe to be some wimpy, quiet thing. But I didn't want it to be inhumanly, fatally loud. And it isn't. It's just loud...and that's great, just great."

 

Whittle said that most people think the theoretical Big Bang starts out with a huge explosion, then it gets quieter with time.

 

"In fact, the Big Bang starts out completely silent," Whittle said. "The expansion...is purely radial -- there's no sideways motion. There are no pressure waves. What they are, are density variations on all scales, everywhere."

 

The universe expanded rapidly after the Big Bang, during a period called inflation. Later, it continued to expand at a slower rate as it cooled enough for gas to condense and form stars. All this time, density variations contributed characteristics to the sound that Whittle's team has determined.

 

"It's nice to kind of get a clean handle on it," Whittle said. "It's as if the universe is a bad concert hall. It has drapes and carpets which absorb the high frequencies. It deadens the sound. What you'd like to do is to put your instruments right in the middle of the orchestra instead of the back of the hall. And to do that you need to use computer simulations, which are quite accurate to access the pure sound."

 

The chord is somewhere between a major and a minor third, Whittle said, adding that he's drawn to associating human emotions with music. "Majors are buoyant and happy chords. Minors are subdued and sad," he said.

 

"So at the time of the microwave background, the universe in a sense is between two states," Whittle said. "It opens its symphony on a major chord and subtly transforms into a minor chord.

 

Whittle said that he's got other ideas for playing out the cosmic concerto. "This is getting more into tinkering. I'd like to fix the fundamental in pitch and then watch how the higher harmonics change."

 

Another idea, Whittle said, is to generate images of primordial sound waves, thereby weaving in other fields to help play out the birth of the universe.

 

"Just as the government likes...we're doing sound science," said Steve Maran, press officer for the American Astronomical Society.

 

Maran said that Whittle's work leads to a central observation: "The Big Bang was really the 'Great Silence.' We went from the Great Silence to louder and louder sounds and ended up with the stars we see today," Maran said.

 

[Guest guest]

then it can't be AUM can it?

[Guest guest]

wasn't one of Shiva's names, Shambhoo? Which was allegorical for first silence before noise? Just like there being a great silence before the primal scream of the universe?

 

I still don't understand how AUM comes into the picture though. If this isn't the sound of the universe, why did the rishis say it was? Weren't they supposed to know and hear the sound of the universe?

[theist]

it's the first sound as far as the scientists have been able to detect.

 

If I hear an echo in the canyon but didn't notice the original sound I might mistakenly assume what I heard was the original.

 

This is the problem with relying solely on material sense perception.

 

By the time they progress up, time will have sent them on to their next birth, to where they start to contemplate AUM. They are then in the probable mode and lifestyle of yogis. At this point the other material scientists coming up behind them will laughingly dismiss them as some superstious characters just as they are now doing to others who are pointing to AUM.

 

The trick here is to somehow understand and present the whole package to them now so that they can accept a transcendental source for what they hear, see, and speculate about. A synthesis.

[Guest guest]

For instance, a sound is transient. It doesn't exist forever, yet since AUM is the sound of the universe, maybe AUM is enunciated for as long as the universe exists. So the "OH" of AUM is what the scientists are hearing, and hearing only that, it is mistaken as a primal scream. Later, when the universe will dissolve, the "M" sound will be dominant, and scientists will hear only a humming sound.

 

I don't think AUM is sounded repeatedly. I believe it spans the existence of the universe, therefore scientists cannot possibly extract the true sound from one moment in time.

[theist]

Or AUM may be a sound which predates the universal manifestation, the universe is manifest from it at some point and then withdrawn, while AUM continues the vibrate.

 

I agree they only catch a portion, as do we all everyday. The problem is becoming fixated on a particular portion of that vibration and trying to make it serve our will. Doing that means we will never be open to experiencing the whole as it is.

 

I also believe that ultimately AUM is personal.

[Guest guest]

AUM CAN'T be the sound of the universe, because the scientists also discovered there was silence in the universe BEFORE the primal scream. They must have measured the timescale well enough to get a decent idea of what the sound of the universe is. It's a primal scream, that's it.

 

They were surprised that the Universe was silent before it made the sound. The only thing that Hindu mythology can even relate to this scientific achievement is Shiva's name, Shambhoo, which allegorically could mean silence before a loud noice.

 

If AUM was spoken before the Universe manifested, and its vibrations were still heard, then it should have been picked up. There wouldn't have been any silence before a sound. It would simply mean that there was a sound that actually SPANS the time of existence of the universe. But since scientists recorded a silence, there must have been no vibration or word spoken.

 

[theist]

but this gives rise to good thinking. So lets kick it around some more.

 

 

 

AUM CAN'T be the sound of the universe, because the scientists also discovered there was silence in the universe BEFORE the primal scream.

 

 

 

I'm thinking not so much AUM the sound of the universe but rather the universe is a manifestation of AUM, that contains it's own variety of sounds and screams. Like pure light shown through a prism becomes fragmented to our vision.

 

 

They must have measured the timescale well enough to get a decent idea of what the sound of the universe is. It's a primal scream, that's it.

 

 

 

Not sure what it means to "measure the timescale". Were their instruments perfect? Were their instruments of reason(intellects) perfect as to give a perfect conclusion to what they perceived? How do they know what they perceived was all there was to be perceived?

 

 

They were surprised that the Universe was silent before it made the sound. The only thing that Hindu mythology can even relate to this scientific achievement is Shiva's name, Shambhoo, which allegorically could mean silence before a loud noice. [/quote}

 

It may or not have been silent. How would they know. Perhaps it was emitting a sound ourside the range of perception.

 

That is interesting about the mening of Shambu.

 

 

[Guest guest]

How was AUM determined to be the sound of the universe or whatever, by the rishis?

 

How do we know that what we are perceiving is outside of the subjective reality? I mean, how do we know that our experiences, our knowledge and our beliefs aren't influencing us to perceive something such as a sound, as AUM, when it could be an entirely different sound?

[theist]

I can't really answer well, other than to say God has the ability to reveal Himself and implant that realization firmly, and unambiguously in the soul.

 

I would suggest the teachings of B.R. Sridhar Maharaja for both of us at this point.

 

I'll post this then come back and add a link.

 

Try here and go to the articles page and read Revelation through Sound #38. http://www.guardian-of-devotion.de/

 

I feel the inner pressure to come up with some answer. Which is a sure sign to back off and slow down a bit and invite others in who undoubtly understand this science much better.

 

Perhaps JNdas would stop by and help out here. Please prabhu. I bet Atma-tattva das has spoken on this also.

[Avinash]

Quantum physics and general theory have still not been combined. Unless that is done, we can not have good knowledge of what Big Bang was really like. General relativity says that big band was a point of singularity in space and time. At singularity all the known laws of physics completely break down, because singularirty is a point of infinite density. Not only that, at singularity, space and time have no meaning. Therefore, it is said that space and time were created at big bang. According to current big bang theory, it is meaningless to ask what was before big bang because there was no "before".

This whole idea of singularity does not sound good. Even though the marriage between quantum physics and general theory is not over, we have got some knowledge of such a theory. Fortunately, there are indications that this theory would save big bang from singularity.