Only One Sun

[ancient_paztriot]

SB 5.21.11

From the residence of Yamaraja the sun travels to Nimlocani, the residence of Varuna, from there to Vibhavari, the residence of the moon-god, and from there again to the residence of Indra. In a similar way, the moon, along with the other stars and planets, becomes visible in the celestial sphere and then sets and again becomes invisible.

 

PURPORT

In Bhagavad-gita (10.21) Krsna says, naksatranam aham sasi: “Of stars I am the moon.” This indicates that the moon is similar to the other stars. The Vedic literature informs us that within this universe there is one sun, which is moving. The Western theory that all the luminaries in the sky are different suns is not confirmed in the Vedic literature. Nor can we assume that these luminaries are the suns of other universes, for each universe is covered by various layers of material elements, and therefore although the universes are clustered together, we cannot see from one universe to another. In other words, whatever we see is within this one universe. In each universe there is one Lord Brahma, and there are other demigods on other planets, but there is only one sun.

[theist]

At the risk of assuming the label HERETIC!!! I choose to accept the material scientists observations over this one sun issue.

 

Ok I am ready for the stones incoming.

[theist]

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0307/25halos/galaxies.jpg

 

This is a picture of the halos surrounding galaxies.

 

A question that arises is if there is only one sun illuminating the entire universe then wouldn't the radiating force of that one sun be so great that we probably couldn't even calculate it? So how could this one planet so close to the sun(third stone) possibly withstand the radiation bombardment?

 

I just don't accept the SB's conception of cosmology I guess.

[Guest guest]

There are 5 ways to look at this:

 

1. You can believe that modern science is totally wrong

 

2. You can believe the vedic version is totally wrong

 

3. You can believe that the vedic version is meant for a

non technological audience as an enhancement

designed to create a simple magical world view.

 

4. The descriptions in the Bhagavatam are written in

symbolic language that is true and scientifically

plausible if decoded.

 

5. A mixture of the above to some degree or another.

 

In plasma cosmology the stars are all interrelated, they are not thermonuclear reactors as is standard orthodox belief, rather our sun is powered from outside of itself, all of the stars within a galaxy are interconnected by plasma currents that fuel them, in this sense you can say there is one sun per galaxy, with many stars comprising it.

 

If we take the idea of Brahmanda as a galaxy instead of as a universe, then more things make sense. In the vedic concept there are many brahmandas within the entire mahat tattva, in my view the mahat tattva is what we in the west call the universe and a galaxy is a brahmanda, a bubble of matter in space. In each galaxy you could say there is one sun using the plasma theory, you can say it is surrounded by a bubble, i.e the magnetosphere is a bubble surrounding all galaxies, and galaxies are born from a subtle plasma state and then eventually dissolve after a very long time.

 

Plasma Sun basics: http://www.electric-cosmos.org/sun.htm

 

for complete details see website.

 

The Presently Accepted Solar Model

 

In almost every article or TV program produced for the general population, the very first sentence usually contains some reference to the "fact" that the Sun is, at its core, a thermonuclear fusion reactor - the same reaction that gives us the Hydrogen bomb. The heat (energy) produced in this core then supposedly slowly rises to the Sun's surface by convection (laminar fluid flow) and is there radiated out into space. The granulations we see on the surface of the photosphere are supposedly the tops of the convection columns. This fusion model was first proposed by Sir Arthur Eddington, who simply rejected out of hand the proposal that the Sun might be getting its energy from outside itself. He just could not conceive of such a thing happening. Therefore, if the Sun was getting its energy from inside itself, and it hadn't burned up in a few billion years, Eddington concluded that the source had to be nuclear fusion.

 

 

The Electric Sun Hypothesis

 

The Basics

 

Juergens, Milton, Thornhill, and others propose an electrical mechanism for the energy release of the Sun. The major properties of this Electric Sun model are as follows:

Most of the space within our galaxy is occupied by plasma (rarefied ionized gas) containing electrons (negative charges) and ionized atoms (positive charges). Every charged particle in the plasma has an electric potential energy (voltage) just as every pebble on a mountain has a mechanical potential energy with respect to sea level.

The Sun is at a more positive electrical potential (voltage) than is the space plasma surrounding it - probably in the order of 10 billion volts.

The Sun is powered, not from within itself, but from outside, by the electric (Birkeland) currents that flow in our arm of our galaxy as they do in all galaxies. In the Plasma Universe model, these currents create the galaxies and the stars within those galaxies by the electromagnetic z-pinch effect. It is only a small extrapolation to propose that these currents also power those stars. Galactic currents are of low current density, but, because the size of the stars are large, the total current (Amperage) is high. The Sun's radiated power at any instant is due to the energy imparted by a combination of incoming cosmic electrons and outgoing +ions. As the Sun moves around the galactic center it may come into regions of higher or lower total current and so its output may vary both periodically and randomly.

Positive ions leave the Sun and cosmic electrons enter the Sun. Both of these flows add to form a net positive current leaving the Sun. This constitutes a plasma discharge analogous in every way (except size) to those that have been observed in electrical laboratories for decades.

Because of the Sun's positive charge (voltage), it acts as the anode in a plasma discharge. As such, it exhibits many of the phenomena observed in earthbound plasma laboratories, such as anode tufting. The granules observed on the surface of the photosphere are anode tufts (plasma in the arc mode).

 

 

 

From a plasma cosmology site http://www.holoscience.com/synopsis.php?page=6

 

Electric stars

 

 

Plasma physicists argue that stars are formed by an electromagnetic "pinch" effect on widely dispersed gas and dust. The "pinch" is created by the magnetic force between parallel current filaments that are part of the huge electric currents flowing inside a galaxy. It is far more effective than gravity in concentrating matter and, unlike gravity, it can remove excess angular momentum that tends to prevent collapse. Stars will form like beads on a wire until gravity takes over. The late Ralph Juergens, an engineer from Flagstaff, Arizona, in the 1970's took the next mental leap to suggest that the electrical input doesn't stop there and that stars are not thermonuclear engines! This is obvious when the Sun is looked at from an electrical discharge perspective. The galactic currents that create the stars persist to power them. Stars behave as electrodes in a galactic glow discharge. Bright stars like our Sun are great concentrated balls of lightning! The matter inside stars becomes positively charged as electrons drift toward the surface. The resulting internal electrostatic forces prevent stars from collapsing gravitationally and occasionally cause them to "give birth" by electrical fissioning to form companion stars and gas giant planets. Sudden brightening, or a nova outburst marks such an event. That elucidates why stars commonly have partners and why most of the giant planets so far detected closely orbit their parent star. Stellar evolution theory and the age of stars is an elaborate fiction. The appearance of a star is determined largely by its electrical environment and can change suddenly. Plasma physicists and electrical engineers are best able to recognize plasma discharge phenomena. Stellar physics is in the wrong hands.

[theist]

 

In plasma cosmology the stars are all interrelated, they are not thermonuclear reactors as is standard orthodox belief, rather our sun is powered from outside of itself, all of the stars within a galaxy are interconnected by plasma currents that fuel them, in this sense you can say there is one sun per galaxy, with many stars comprising it.

 

 

Prabhupada's purport seems to shoot this down. No what is being talked about is one globe revolving around the entire universe providing light.

 

I'm not really interested in how it all works. Just like the exact details of how a dream is composed doesn't interest me. God is behind it all and its all inconceivable is good enough for me.

 

I am curious as to why things like this are included in the Bhagavatam in the first place.

[Guest guest]

 

"There are 5 ways to look at this:

 

1. You can believe that modern science is totally wrong

 

2. You can believe the vedic version is totally wrong

 

3. You can believe that the vedic version is meant for a

non technological audience as an enhancement

designed to create a simple magical world view.

 

4. The descriptions in the Bhagavatam are written in

symbolic language that is true and scientifically

plausible if decoded.

 

5. A mixture of the above to some degree or another."

 

 

How about another view?

Accept nothing and just concentrate on krishna. Who cares about all this? We learn about the material world to make our life here a little easier and to quench our thirst for curiosity. We believe in the supreme being because He is the supreme reality beyond all this.

 

You can have an interest in science and accept one view or the other, or you can just forget about all this, and accept what scientists say as well as accept what our gurus say and quietly depend on the real truth, who is the supreme personality of the Godhead.

 

Whether there are many suns or if there is only one sun, one thing is clear and even people like Einstein and people like Chaitanya or Prabhupada, Aristotle agree - that is there is a "seemless whole" reality, controlled by a supreme conscious entity, who is ofcourse Krishna.

 

Thank you and yall have a good night now.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

How about another view?

Accept nothing and just concentrate on krishna. Who cares about all this?

 

 

Evidently a lot of people do, including yourself /images/graemlins/laugh.gif, otherwise you would not be writing or reading on the topic.

 

ciao baby /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[theist]

We all have different minds. Some of these scientists have developed their minds along this track of investigation for obviously many births. Supersoul fulfills their desire to know certain things according to whatever criteria He chooses.

 

The flaw they exhibit mostly is that they remain transfixed on the energy of God and ignore the Energetic source and controller of that energy.

 

Much like Duryodhana prefering Krsna's army to krsna before Kurukshetra. Arjuna was a different matter. Even when seeing the universal form he was awed by the Energetic being behind the universal manifestation. It saw both in perspective.

 

So we can appreciate the scientists desire to gain knowledge but until their conclusions become fixed on Krsna it is so much wasted time.

 

In time, learned philosophers or scientists might be able to count all the atoms of the earth, the particles of snow, or perhaps even the shining molecules radiating from the sun, the stars and other luminaries. But among these learned men, who could possibly count the unlimited transcendental qualities possessed by You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who have descended onto the surface of the earth for the benefit of all living entities?

From the unmatched and all glorious Srimad Bhagavatam 10.14.7

 

[gHari]

The sun god has a fractal form, with similar yet distinct bodily manifestations seemingly visible throughout the limitless universe.

 

Why not? With all these higher dimensions, worm-holes, and whatnots, why not?

 

<center></center>Click pic for fractal video

 

Krsna can appear anywhere He wants. Perhaps Vivasvan is afforded the power to appear in a variety of places simultaneously in his demigod service to Krsna.

 

[theist]

maybe. Pretty wild either way.

[ancient_paztriot]

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/5/21/en

[theist]

 

SB 5.21.1: Sukadeva Gosvami said: My dear King, I have thus far described the diameter of the universe [fifty crores of yojanas, or four billion miles] and its general characteristics, according to the estimations of learned scholars.

 

 

Sounds too small.

 

[Guest guest]

Haribol, theist. I had to laugh when you said here comes the stones, and then you posted that picture, now there is some big stones, eh brah? =;-)

 

I myself accept the version of separate universes, covered by layers. Thed vedic description mentions self illuminated planets, and even many modern scientists are now speculating that Jupiter, supposedly in our own solar system, is self effulgent, and I have even heard some scientists speculate that Jupiter is a small sun with its own solar system (its moons).

 

The scientists just speculate, and their truth is based on stuff that always changes with every new generation of advancement of the tools of science. But apparently Hubble is on the verge of seeing the limit of thios universe. But what if the multiverse theory or omniverse theory starts to pan out, that there are universes inner space too. And as far as layers go (the vedic version), science confirms to a degree, more and more. This also explains the tala region, the subterraneans of the fifth canto. Some have mapped this to be below the earth globe, but maybe not, because on the south pole, outer spacew is still UP. Subterranean means under the dirt, so rasatala, patala, etc, the land of the nagapatnis, all below the surface of the earth, and beings are more earthy (or even reptilian, for all you art bell fans out there).

 

Rama traveled under the dirt, so did jatayu, some say that some of lankas residents escaped to south america via tunnels.

 

Geography, geology, these things have always fascinated me. The dimensions of my 7 acres always blow me away, I always get lost.

 

mo later

 

mahaksadasa

[theist]

Yeah those glowing things in the picture are GALAXIES. And like you been posting it just keeps getting bigger and bigger in one direction as it does smaller on the other.

 

It's like we are a speck on a grain of sand trying to estimate where we are in relation to the rest of the beach.

 

Better we just bow down.

[ancient_paztriot]

We think we can grasp these concepts, but even this number is inconceivable to us.

 

I don't know Theist. (I'd like to know the structure of the universe too… from someone I trust).

[Avinash]

Only four billion miles? Light can cover this distance in 6 hours.

[Avinash]

Yeah those glowing things in the picture are GALAXIES. And like you been posting it just keeps getting bigger and bigger in one direction as it does smaller on the other.

 

Why smaller?

[Kulapavana]

practically all we know about celestial bodies outside the solar system comes from analyzing light waves coming from these object. There is no direct experience of any kind. HUGE assumptions and mental leaps are being made by the scientists trying to explain things to themselves. It is like

 

trying to understand the conversation in a foreign language by reading the lip movement of the speakers

 

why bother with such admittedly speculative creations? Even the Vedic concept of space differs greatly from the material science version, what to speak of the nature of stars.

[Guest guest]

It seems to be strongly at odds with the current, and I believe, correct view?

 

How could these supposedly self-realized people be so wrong about the universe? Aren't they supposed to know everything once they become self-realized, and know God?

[Kulapavana]

I'm a scientist, yet I do not blindly accept either vision, neither should you. As you say, you BELIEVE that the material science version is correct. others believe that the Vedic version is correct. in either case faith is involved because you cant experience it directly. material science changes all the time, often drastically. recently some Hubble pictures of the most distant galaxies put in question the entire foundation of modern cosmology (AGAIN!).

 

I trust the Vedic version because I trust the people who carry it. I certainly do not trust material scientists: they were proven wrong many, many times and their motives are often questionable. We all have to chose wisely...

[Kulapavana]

only Krishna truly knows everything. self realized people are the ones who realized their self and perceive themselves to be spirit.

 

if you have hard time understanding such simple concepts, good luck on trying to understand the Universe.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps he should just tell us about true cosmology, the sun, and all that nanu-anu stuff; in detail, contrasted to modern cosmological speculation. Isn't it?

 

[theist]

OMG and now things are being chategorized in light YEARS. Sorry, i don't mean to ruffle any feathers but how can one sun traverse that distance in our 24 hour time period.

 

There is plenty in the Bhagavatam to have complete faith in. Only in the SB have I ever read such descriptions of the soul and Supreme Soul. Only in the SB have I ever read of UNMOTIVATED devotional service. Life beyond mere mukti.

 

After we talk about omniscience someone will say Lord Caitanya said it was spotless Purana. Faith at our level is a fragile thing. It must be anchored on properly.

[theist]

I accept Srila Prabhupada's explanation. Omniscient means to know He who is everything.

 

If you approach guru say with three leaves in your hand and ask him to tell you how many atoms in each leaf he will dismiss you as being childish.

 

If guru is omniscient in the way some people present it then he must be the top level nueroscientist/surgeon in the universe for example. He must be able to perform on even alien lifeforms with having to study their anatomy etc. So many ridculous examples can be offered.

 

I have no problem telling someone that vedic cosmology was written from a point of view relative to the thinking at the time and is outdated now.

 

We now know that its not a flying demon's head trying to eat the moon when there is a lunar eclipse. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Just like Venus wasn't snacking on the sun recently.

[theist]

Letter to: Krsnadasa

--

Vrindaban

7 November, 1972

72-11-07

 

My Dear Krsnadasa,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that

vedaham samatitani

vartamanani carjuna

bhavisyani ca bhutani

mam tu veda na kascana

[bg. 7.26]

that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise.

But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King Puranjana. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version:

gam avisya ca bhutani

dharayamy aham ojasa

pusnami causadhih sarvah

somo bhutvah rasatmakah

(BG, 15.13)

``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know.

Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: ``Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and

you mam evam asammudho

janati purusottamam

sa sarva-vid bhajati mam

(BG, XV, 19)

``Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''--this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding. Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami