Kulapavana Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 perhaps you can ask BVNM to explain his omniscience statement to you. as to explaining vedic cosmology: I have been studying it for the last 25 years and there is still much I do not understand, but the things I DO understand helped me understand many, many other subjects as well. for me, this is good enough. Some Vedic statements are simplifications and alegories, some things also seem to be mistranslations. Some munis say the covers of the Universe are transparent, some say otherwise. things like that do not bother me. I probably also know more material science than you think, and I use it to expand my understanding of Vedic sources all the time. Srila Prabhupada wanted devotee scientists to study both Vedic and material science in order to present Vedic knowledge in a proper way to people in general. Vedic civilization collapsed 5000 years ago and much of the original knowledge in this area was simply handed down to us. It often takes a lot of effort to understand this knowlege in terms we are familiar with. A little modesty is needed to study any subject. Most people out there can't grasp higher math, let alone grasping the mechanics of the Universe. "Perhaps he should just tell us about true cosmology, the sun, and all that nanu-anu stuff; in detail, contrasted to modern cosmological speculation" you want that with french fries and diet Pepsi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Take the precision of the sun. It's so precise we calculate time by it. It is so big and powerful and yet it is being perfectly controlled. What do the concepts of time and power even mean "by chance?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 "Perhaps he should just tell us about true cosmology, the sun, and all that nanu-anu stuff; in detail, contrasted to modern cosmological speculation" Lol! This reminds me of how the government will officially deny things like extra-sensory perception or UFOs, but if it helps them solve their case… or if they can exploit it someone… they'll give it their attention. Just jerks! "Srila Prabhupada wanted devotee scientists to study both Vedic and material science in order to present Vedic knowledge in a proper way to people in general. " Oh yeah. The corruption already shown of professional cheats has been vividly documented by devotee scientists. It would have to be an objective opinion. Kulapavana, you sound like I can learn something from you about the universe. Please describe it's structure if you can. I want to get an image of Bhu-mandala (the flat world) and different planets balanced in my head. Please help. (I'm not trying to intimidate you. I'm just responding to your comment on studying this for many years. If you don't know or don't want to say, that's cool). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 "I want to get an image of Bhu-mandala (the flat world) and different planets balanced in my head" He he... if I tried, this would take some time, so please come and visit me here in Prabhupada Village... /images/graemlins/smile.gif there is nothing more satisfying than talking about this kinda stuf after a delicious and sumptous Sunday feast... if you like the 5th Canto, read Markandeya Purana as well. I found some very illuminating passages there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Yes, those circumstances sound very pleasing. But I'm afraid you have to wait till I'm rich. But I have my first thing to do as a rich man. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Markendeya is awesome… but he chose alot of suffering in attempting to see! (Think we have a bit of Markendeya in us). I wonder if he asked for a second look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 (Just common sense judging from the benefits on this side. But these so-called leaders think it's all about them). ...................................... SB 8.11.5 Those fools and rascals who want to ascend to the upper planetary system by mystic power or mechanical means, or who endeavor to cross even the upper planets and achieve the spiritual world or liberation, I cause to be sent to the lowest region of the universe. PURPORT There are undoubtedly different planetary systems for different persons. As stated in Bhagavad-gita (14.18), urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah: persons in the mode of goodness can go to the upper planets. Those in the modes of darkness and passion, however, are not allowed to enter the higher planets. The word divam refers to the higher planetary system known as Svargaloka. Indra, King of the higher planetary system, has the power to push down any conditioned soul attempting to go from the lower to the higher planets without proper qualifications. The modern attempt to go to the moon is also an attempt by inferior men to go to Svargaloka by artificial, mechanical means. This attempt cannot be successful. From this statement of Indra it appears that anyone attempting to go to the higher planetary systems by mechanical means, which are here called maya, is condemned to go the hellish planets in the lower portion of the universe. To go to the higher planetary system, one needs sufficient good qualities. A sinful person situated in the mode of ignorance and addicted to drinking, meat-eating and illicit sex will never enter the higher planets by mechanical means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Sorry, i don't mean to ruffle any feathers but how can one sun traverse that distance in our 24 hour time period. Light can cover this distance in just 6 hours. But we know that things a few billion light years away have been detected. Therefore, the distance that can be covered by light in just 6 hours is too small on universal scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 It is indeed amazing that these self-contained planets with all their individual variety just float in space. The planets can be considered to depend on the sun. But what does the sun depend on? It's burning from what fuel? Even if you can explain the fuel theory, how do you explain the sustained intensity (Really can't bluff your way around that one) ? You bow down. That's how. It can be argued the primitive worshipers were more advanced than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 It's sustained by the bramajyoti. I believe all light has the brahman as it's origin and sustainer ultimately. The rest may end just being details. I'm with you, let's just bow down to the Lord's majesty. (with an eye to vraja of course /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 You know enough to bluff me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Maybe you're not bluffing. I can't tell. It sure sounds right. I accept your version, but I'd like to hear a little more. Any verses in support of brahmajoyti specifically supporting the sun? ....................... I've heard it said that our biggest nukes would go unnoticed on the sun. So at every moment there is inconceivable energy being released there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 I have been honing my bluffing skills now for many ages so it is wise to be wary. /images/graemlins/smile.gif If we keep in mind that Krsna is the Cause of all causes and the sustainer of all that is, it is not so difficult. We can point to anything and everything and say it has its source in Brahman and be correct. We get into trouble and always will when we try to trace it back step by step from the grossest manifestation to the subtlest. ...In the material world, the light of the sun is also not independent, nor is that of the moon. The real source of light is the brahmajyoti, which diffuses light from the transcendental body of the Lord, and the same light is reflected in varieties of light: the light of the sun, the light of the moon, the light of fire, or the light of electricity. - Sb 2.9.34 purport So when we see the sun we are seeing brahman reflected. if we remember that the Brahman is Krsna's effulgence then we are Krsna conscious. But maya's distracting power is always present. And if we fall for it we can become lost in the details, even while appearing as big astrophysicists in this world. We have heard the acronym KISS for Keep It Simple Stupid I like it but prefer instead Keep It Simple Sadhaka God bless the vedabase search engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 I happened upon this. May Krsna please help us remember these simple things. This is actually Krishna Consciousness. We can remember Krishna in every moment. We can remember Krishna while taking a glass of water because the taste of water is Krishna. We can remember Krishna as soon as we see the sunlight in the morning, because the sunlight is a reflection of Krishna's Bodily Effulgence. Similarly, as soon as we see moonlight in the evening we remember Krishna because moonlight is also reflection of sunlight. - excerpt letter to Hayagriva Jan 15,1968 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ancient_paztriot Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 I've seen that before, but it didn't make an impression on me. Didn't do much to explain things this time either. (No fault of yours). Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 When we read we are often looking for something else. Then we read it again and something else pops out. I find it helps to try not to think to hard about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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