What's the point?

[Guest guest]

Chanting is a useless activity, isn't it? It dulls the mind and that dullness is misconstrued as peace or silence. Whether you chant krishna or rama or george bush, it is the same. it is just a word, nothing more. So why waste time?

 

Ahmed

[gHari]

For me it is not true. Perhaps you weren't sincere enough when you tried chanting (chuckle). You must think the Sufis are nuts too. The mullah in the tower singing morning prayers in Mecca - again a waste - he might as well chant George Bush over Mecca.

 

This is not an intelligent position. Poor Ahmed, do not trust your mind. Leave without causing further offence. Don't you remember that it was here that you were destroyed for similar offences earlier? Take your childishness to those who are not wise in the ways of God. There you can be a big man; but here you are simply a fool, a silly goat, a nuisance.

 

 

 

[zackv]

This time, I'm with gHari.

 

Seriously man - what is your problem?? Do you really think you're going to convert people this way, anyhow? Like anybody listens to snide cracks at their beliefs? Maybe if you offered some intelligent analysis you might raise some eyebrows, and it could fall under the heading of "honest discussion." But this is just absolutely ridiculous.

 

Besides, you have your argument wrong anyhow. In K.C. chanting is ultimately meant to result in the revelation of one's spiritual identity beyond the mind; not peace and numbness.

[Guest guest]

for a fellow Vaishnava? He is also worshipping the supreme, only he calls it Allah and we call it Krishna. Learn to be more tolerant, ghari and zacky. Bigotry doesn't attract Krishna, only loving service does. Learn to love your enemies, if at all there are any, cuz I feel the only 'enemy' is ignorance.

 

Special Guest Star from India

[gHari]

Sorry, Star, my star is Sri Krsna. I cannot accept your instruction for it is opposed to scripture.

 

Allowing such flagrant offenses to go unchallenged, you will worship the same supreme that Ahmed worships in the next life, readily blaspheming Krsna and His name with the same brazen arrogance.

 

As for me, I will take Krsna, now and forever.

 

[Guest guest]

In your anger, you seem to have forgotten the basic message of the gita and the vedas: Truth is one, but sages call it by many names. We call it Krishna, whereas Ahmed and Muslims call it Allah, the hindus Brahman, and the Jews Jehovah. That's all there is to it. It doesn't mean one god is greater than the other. When you worship Krishna, or claim to do so, for that matter, you are actually worshipping the Allah of Muslims or the Jehovah of the Jews. In other words, anybody who worships god is a vaishnava, irrespective of whether they call it Krishna. That is just one of the names of the Almighty, not the ONLY name. Don't be stuck with names and forms, try to go beyond and see the truth. Krishna wouldn't like to see such bigotry in his devotees.

 

Special Guest Star from India

[theist]

Vaisnavas don't worship an "it" that lies within the person of an avatar.

 

Maybe get that straight first. Calling others bigots without even understanding this point reveals your lack of understanding.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!I offer my humble obeisances unto Him!

 

Dude...Om Shanti!! the above anger showed by my fellow devotees is not against Allah or Islam. It is about Ahmed blaspheming Krishna. No one mentioned anything against Allah. Read the posts carefully and reply. Dont be too brotherly and loving for that is not your goal. Your goal is to serve Krishna.

 

If anybody blasphemes Krishna, it is your duty as a devotee to counteract in any capacity. We dont mean anything bad to Ahmed,but he talking like that is unacceptable.

 

If someone comes and defiles your own kith and Kin, will you be calm and find reasoning in the defilers argument. So if anyone blasphemes Krishna, devotees are supposed to counteract and thats what the above devotees did and no one ever talked about Allah and Krishna being the same or different.

 

Haribol!

 

anand

[Bhaktavasya]

 

I've been out of touch on the net for a while, and with minutes to spare I'd like to give an objective comment after reading this thread.

 

Nowhere did I sense any hatred, hostility or bigotry in responses to the (mis)leading question, which really isnt' a question at all but a blatant insult towards faith in chanting the holy names, a cornerstone belief of the devotees posting here. Accusations of hatred, anger and bigotry are red herrings, and I feel the respondents (G-Hari, Theist, etc) have shown tolerance, tempered with a bit of (understandable) annoyance towards the ignorant question posed.

 

Maybe some references to the divine nature of the holy names may help, but probably not as the provocateur has been reading for a while now.

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Dear Ahmed, please accept my respects. You have voluntarily come to a vaisnava site, so no one is forcing you to stay. But there is a reason that you may have come. There are just too many religious channels on the net to assume that you have picked this one to criticize the faithful adherants of Vaisnavism.

 

We are not taught to oppose Allah. In fact, just the opposite is true. We are taught to worship allah, maybe in a different way that Muslims (By the way, I am a long time follower of Malcolm X, a person largely responsible for the Islamic explosion in the west), but worship is worship nonetheless. Your previous accusation that the Vaisnava is offensive is uncalled for, because you attack your faithful brothers and sisters here.

 

A Vaisnava worships Lord Visnu, who is the exact same person as Allah. Just as I am known as matt, mahaksadasa, mahak, mudmon, mad mahax, and other names not fit for a family station, The Supreme Lord has many names. These names convey attributes, as mahaksadasa denotes my status as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami's initiated disciple, mad mahax is my political alter-ego, matt is the name my parents (and the US military) know me by, etc.

 

Krsna is the name meaning the all attractive personality, meaning only God. Visnu denotes omnipotency, only attributed to God. Allah means the most compassionate personality, meaning only God.

 

Faithful Muslims are honored by the Vaisnava, because they worship the most compassionate Lord with such one-pointed fervor. The Christian folks who make muslims their enemy must learn the ways of the faithful muslim, otherwise their Lord Jesus Christ will reject them. They fail to do the will of the Father of Lord Jesus Christ (and Mohammed) if they do not follow the commandment of loving the Father (allah) with all body, mind, heart and soul and loving all beings to the extent they love themselves.

 

The way to worship the Supreme Lord is Universal. As the Name of Allah resounds from the worldwide mineret many times a day, the worshippers of Lord Krsna also sing His Names. The Bible, and especially the great progenitor King David, always recommend singing the Names of the Supreme, most compassionate Lord. In fact, the utterances of the unlimited names of God, as many as his unlimited characteristics, this is the key to the illusive world peace and brotherhood of mankind. This is the common ground.

 

Of course, religion has become the opiate of the people. Religion has murdered countless innocents since the beginnings of time, but this is all due to misunderstanding of what religion actually is. Religion is actually God speaking to humankind, but we unfortunately think that he favors some of his children over others. We do not recognize God's ability to speak to us within our social and cultural boundries, so the jew thinks he is chosen and the others are damned, the christian thinks that the dark skinned folks are excluded from the blond-haired, blue-eyed Jesus whom they worship as their doormat to wipe their bloody sins upon.

 

I agree with the Islamic premise that the heathen choose between serving Allah and experiancing ultimate death. But one who accepts such a thing must do so wisely. If we kill one who worships Allah by a different Name, in a different culture, we are the heathens, and if we say we serve Allah by killing those who Love Him reciprocally as He loves us, as Lord Jesus says, The Supreme Father will reject us and our names will be eternally erased from the book of life.

 

So, Ahmed, I dont criticize your writings here. Ill be glad to discuss issues of faith with you any time without anger.

 

Hare Krsna, all glories to the most compassionate (and forgiving) Allah. your servant, mahaksadasa

[zackv]

Yes. I never said anything about Allah. If you have any doubts to my tolerance read an older post I made under the title "HOLY WARS!" I never said anything to denounce Ahmed's faith, I just denounced his denouncing of others!

[gHari]

From a Vaishnava guru (spiritual master):<blockquote>PrabhupAda: Minimum because they cannot chant more than that, therefore minimum. Otherwise kIrtanIyaH sadA hariH [Cc. adi 17.31]. So you must have a fixed amount of kIrtana. That is called tapasya, that "We must finish at least this much, if not more." SaGkhyA-pUrvaka-nAma-gAna-natibhiH. SaGkhyA-pUrvaka. By numerical strength one should chant. That is called vow. This is the idea. So these Europeans, Americans, they cannot imitate HaridAsa ThAkura, who was chanting 300,000 times. So we do not advise to imitate. Really do something. One name is sufficient. If you can chant one name only, that is sufficient. But that is not possible. So to understand the value of name at least we must have some numerical strength. All the GosvAmIs used to do that. We follow their footprints. Thank you. Now chant Hare KRSNa.

</blockquote>

[ShegavichaRana]

"In other words, anybody who worships god is a vaishnava, irrespective of whether they call it Krishna. That is just one of the names of the Almighty, not the ONLY name. Don't be stuck with names and forms, try to go beyond and see the truth."

 

Sure we would. Why don't you preach this philosophy to the "other group" too, who are offending the religious feelings of ours by critising our mode of worship? These people do not read any of our scriptures or the teachings of our saints/vaishnavas, then how can they critise our method of devotional service to God? And funnily, every time they do so, they get fitting replies too from other forum members, but still they continue to do it. Isn't that surprising?