The Rumor...

[i_luv_krishna]

> I will pay dearly for that.

 

Enough!

 

It is only Krishna who decides who is going to pay and for what. Who has false prema and who has true prema?

 

Beware .... beware .... be very careful .... If Hari decides to protect, who can harm? and if He decides to kill, who can save?

 

satAM nindA nAmnaH paramam aparAdhaM vitanute

yataH khyAtiM yAtaM katham u sahate tad-vigarhAm

 

nindAM bhagavataH SRNvaMs tat-parasya janasya vA

tato nApaiti yaH so 'pi yAty adhaH sukRtAc cyutaH

 

[vanamali]

SATYAM EVA JAYATE

 

[Guest guest]

 

...if He decides to kill, who can save?

 

 

Srimati Radharani.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Is this the Sahajiya thread?

[i_luv_krishna]

Dear Devotee,

 

You don't get it do you? Hari is not separate from Radha ....

 

Even Srimati Radharani will not save a person who has committed satAm nindA. When I was in Vrindavana, a devotee was audacious enough to make a Vrajavasi angry by trying to hide under the excuse that "Srimati Radharani will save us?" He did not happen to fare very good .....

 

This Vanamali ji has just offered her feelings for her Lord. She has been repeatedly saying that she is no pure devotee .... even some "cheap imitator". And when you all were not quite pleased, she begged for forgiveness but *only* asked that she be allowed to keep her feelings for her Lord. Even after this, if she has to be abused that her reply will be akin to indulging in false prema .... then .......

[i_luv_krishna]

> Is this the Sahajiya thread?

 

Don't worry, at least I am outta here ........

[Guest guest]

Dont you guys have any other better job than just putting down each other. Bakthi is something private between individual and Paramathma.

[Guest guest]

so why this show of such "elevate" feelings?

 

 

[vanamali]

Okay, *once again* my point was only...

 

Krishna is so good to an idiot imbecile like me, that He loves everybody, even disgusting creatures like me. Not that I am trying to take Him away from Radharani. I love Radharani. Why do you think I am offending Her????

 

I'm just concerned that some people don't believe that you can really approach Him in *any* sentiment and He will fix you up the way He wants it. Just trust Him! Even if a demon who wants to kill Him comes, doesn't the demon at least get salvation (Ravana) or beatification (Putana)??

 

Just think of me as another kind of demon. Why do you think I am trying to say that I am good or something like this?? I don't understand!

 

If this doesn't help you, forget all of this. How many times must I repeat it??? Please, don't read it if you don't like it! I'm SO SORRY for offending you all...

[vanamali]

Pankaja, yes, this is the sahajiya thread, and I only hope you do not curse me...

[theist]

What does sahajiya actually mean anyway? I know the loose definition of it referring to someone who takes the process too cheaply. That would apply to me.

 

I heard one ISKCON lecture where the speaker was explaining the three levels of devotees and instead of kanistha he used sahajiya. I asked him about this after the talk and privately and he went into a diplomatic mode and started apologizing to me for the mistake. I hate that kind of wall as it is so pretensuous and there is no way through.

 

Do all ISKCONERS really view the congregation as a bunch of sahajiyas they must patronize in some way? or was my incident just an isolated one?

 

What is really up with this word?

 

I think there is a more specific meaning.

[sandra]

Dear Mataji,

 

If your concern is whether your feelings for Sri Krishna is right or wrong... then do pray to him sincerely... He will surely direct you on the path to follow... I will not advise you as who am i to do so? I'm human and humans are desillusioned. Appeal to Krishna and Radha and seek their guidance. Actually, I do not think it is a bad thing to be attracted to the Lord... Doesn't Krishna mean All-attractive... im no way does that mean we wanna seperate Srimate Radharani from Sri Krishna...? We all know they're inseperable! Isn't it mentioned in the BG that one may be a devotee in different ways: passive, active, as a friend, as a parent and lastly as a conjugual lover...? Isn't the "conjugual lover" mood considered the highest? I thought some acharyas actually expressed their love for the Lord in the mood of conjugual love... My sincere apologies to anyone on the forum whom i might have offended with my words... i just want to figure out why everyone's picking on her... Even if she's committing a blunder, there are others ways to correct a misdirected soul... and that's with gentle words and love! I do not think that telling her to keep it private or calling her names actually helps. We all commit mistakes. So do I.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Pankaja, yes, this is the sahajiya thread, and I only hope you do not curse me...

 

 

 

First of all please do not take my words harshly I have never met you. I only know of what I see you do on this forum. So with that..

 

See that I am not a devotee but I feel that you are making a show of devotion to Krishna which is unattainable by even the most advanced Vaishnava's. You are therefore fit to become an Uttama-adhikari devotee. You speak as if you are a Gopi. Look at its value is it real emotion or not? I am not here to Judge you but individuals must think it very easy to attain Krishna. In the mood you are expressing. Also my personality is such that I have to speak up and say something. I hope I achieve a reply which is devoid of sentimentality if not do not reply. I wish for you blessing and I give you mine.

[sandra]

An extract from http://www.philosophy.ru/library/asiatica/indica/authors/bhaktivinoda/hc/hceng.html

 

 

The churning of rasa

 

Thus one reaches a state of perfection known as sthayibhava, or permanent emotion, which is also known as rati. Four bhavas combine to transform rati to rasa. The four bhavas are: vibhava, anubhava, sattvika, and vyabhicari (or sancari).

 

Vibhava, the element that excites loving sentiment, has two subdivisions: alambana and uddipana. Alambana or the root is again of two parts: the visaya (subject) and the asraya (recipient). The devotee of Lord Krsna is the asraya, and Lord Krsna Himself is the visaya. Lord Krsna's transcendental beauty and qualities are known

as uddipana or the impetus. Thus where there is alambana (the root relationship of the devotee and Krsna) and uddipana (the impetus of the realization of Krsna's form and qualities), lila and rasa can occur.

 

Anubhava (the external symptoms of the internal permanent emotion) is what results from vibhava, or the effect of alambana and uddipana. When these emotions become more intense, they are transformed into sattvikabhava (loving emotions that cannot be checked). At this same time sancaribhava (emotions that set into motion the progress of rasa) come into play.

 

Rasa is like a machine. Rati, or permanent emotion, is the axle of this machine. Once the machine starts moving by the combined energy of the four bhavas, the permanent emotion (sthayi-bhava) is then converted into rasa. The devotee, who is the asraya (like a shelter or container), becomes the relisher of that rasa. And that rasa is the Vraja-rasa or the spiritual mellow of Vrindavan. That rasa is the essence of everything, and

is for the jiva the highest goal. The Vedas expound four goals - dharma, artha, kama, moksha; but in fact the pinnacle of all these perfections is rasa. The fully realized and perfected beings are entitled to taste that rasa.

 

Elevation via the Hare Krsna mahamantra.

 

Amongst the introspective jivas, he who is attracted to pure devotional service is the most evolved. The jiva can take up the path of bhakti only after he has accrued sufficient sukriti or piety from previous births. When such a jiva develops strong faith or sraddha, he comes into contact with a pure devotee spiritual master. By the grace of the spiritual master, he is initiated into

the chanting of the Hare Krsna mahamantra the holy names of the Divine Couple. Though this jiva is blessed with sraddha, his desire for material gain poses an obstacle on his path of progress. The spiritual master graces the jiva with a disciplinary process suitable for overcoming this obstacle. Thus he gains spiritual strength from chanting. Chanting on Tulasi beads and

meditating on a fixed number of holy names every day is the best form of worship, and will surely lead to success. Therefore, in the beginning, a little time should daily be spent in seclusion for full concentration upon the holy name. In degrees, as chanting increases, a more profound relationship with the holy name is developed, and the material impediments fall away.

 

The path of bhakti features two important engagements, one of which is Deity worship, the other chanting and meditating upon the holy name. Although both engagements are expedient, chanting and meditating on the holy name is preferred by the more deeply serious devotees.

 

Many elevated pure devotees at times chant aloud the holy names on their beads, and then at other times meditate upon Krsna's pastimes on the beads. The advantage of performing kirtan, or audibly chanting the maha-mantra on the beads, is that three kinds of devotional service hearing, chanting and remembering are accomplished simultaneously. Of course, all the nine limbs of devotional service reside in the holy name; of

them, hearing, chanting and remembering are the best.

 

Chanting automatically manifests the other limbs of

devotional service, like .-sevanam, dasyam, sakhyam, atma- nivedanam, and so on. Thus the process of Deity worship is automatically accomplished by the devotee surrendered to the holy name. But the devotee attracted to Deity worship will have to acquire attraction for hearing and chanting in order to attain complete perfection in Krsna consciousness.

 

Who is eligible to chant the holy name?

 

Three kinds of jivas are captivated by external material phenomena: the gross materialists, the karmis and the jnanis. They are therefore extroverts all, chasing after false hopes for happiness in the realm of fleeting appearances. The gross materialist endeavors for sensual delights. The karmi aspires for ephemeral heavenly bliss in the hereafter. The jnani is wholly concerned with how to mitigate his existential suffering. After surpassing these stages, the jiva becomes truly introspective, seeking entrance into the realm of the internal spiritual energy. The introspective jivas are divided into three categories:

kanistha, madhyama, and uttama (neophyte, intermediate, and advanced).

 

The neophyte devotee rejects demigod worship and worships only Krsna, but with certain material motivations due to lack of sambandhajnana. Simple and naive, he is not offensive; he is just selfpreoccupied. Therefore, although such neophytes are not considered to be pure Vaisnavas, they are certainly to be accepted as Vaisnava-praya or resembling Vaisnavas.

 

The intermediate or madhyama devotee is pure and is very firmly situated in faith. The uttama or advanced devotee is completely indifferent to material things and is fully surrendered to Krsna. The pure name avails Himself to those who have exclusive faith in Krsna. z Stepbystep advancement in hearing, chanting, and

remembering The order of discipline (sadhanakrama) for realizing the identity of the holy name with the Lord is as follows. The devotee must in the beginning discard the ten offenses and simply absorb himself in the holy name by chanting constantly. He should distinctly pronounce the holy name and meditate upon the

transcendental sound vibration. When his chanting is steady, clear and blissful, he will be able to meditate upon the Syamasundara form of the Lord. With chanting beads in hand, he should thus seek out the transcendental form of the holy name, which will appear

when his vision is pure.

 

Another method he may employ to see this form is to sit in front of the Deities, drink the beautiful sight of the Lord with his eyes and meditate upon the holy name. After reaching the stage where the holy name and the form of the Lord become one, he must then absorb the transcendental qualities of Lord Krsna into his meditation. Thus the holy name and the qualities of Krsna

merge to become one through constant chanting.

 

Next, he goes on to practice the remembrance of particular pastimes of the Lord. This remembrance, called mantradhyana mayi upasana, facilitates further absorbtion into the holy name. This lila-smarana or pastime meditation also gradually become one with the holy name, form, and qualities.

 

At this point, the first rays of namarasa, or the transcendental mellow of the holy name, dawn on the horizon of perception. Chanting the name in great delight, the devotee sees Krsna surrounded by cowherd boys and girls under a desire tree at the Yoga Pitha. Progressively, the devotee's practice of lila-smarana intensifies to the point where he begins to meditate on the most confidential pastimes of the Lord known as the asta-kaliya- lila, or the eightfold pastimes of RadhaKrsna. When he reaches maturity in this meditation, rasa rises in full glory.

 

The svarasiki process of worship

 

Asta-kaliya-lila smarana is also known as svarasiki worship. In this stage of bhajana, one is awarded the opportunity to accordingly serve Krsna in the times and places of his pastimes. Now the devotee realizes the full grace of his spiritual master, who, in his eternal spiritual form (siddha-svarupa), guides the disciple to a sakhi (confidential gopi) who in turn introduces him into the pastimes of the Lord. Of all the gopis, Srimati

Radharani, the daughter of King Vrisabhanu, is the most excellent. She embodys the highest spiritual sentiment, mahabhava. Serving Krsna under Her leadership is the supreme spiritual experience.

 

The five main rasas or spiritual mellows are: santa (neutrality), dasya (servitorship), sakhya (friendship), vatsalya (parenthood), and sringara or madhurya (conjugal). Of these, sringara or conjugal is the highest. Devotees eligible to enter the conjugal rasa are the recipients of the special mercy of Sri

Krsna Caitanya.

 

In the conjugal rasa, Lord Krsna has many yutheswaris or female group leaders; but everyone prefers Srimati Radharani. She is the direct manifestation of Lord Krsna's svarupa-sakti or spiritual potency, and all the other vraja-gopis are Her expansions. She is the Absolute embodiment of all the rasas. It is therefore the goal of devotional service to enroll in Her yutha or

group. Service to Lord Krsna in Vraja is impossible without first taking shelter of the vrajagopis. One should furthermore aspire to enter Srimati Radharani's camp and serve directly under Lalitadevi.

 

When the material coverings are removed, the spiritual goal is acheived.

 

As the devotee becomes disciplined in rasa, the gap between sadhana (practice) and bhajanasiddhi (perfection of worship) closes. Soon, the servitor's spiritual form begins to take shape. By the mercy of the yutheswari, he becomes easily overpowered by attraction to Lord Krsna. This strong spiritual attraction eradicates the gross and subtle material concepts of form that

captured him when he turned away from Krsna. Thus the jiva gains entrance into Vraja in his original spiritual form.

 

Up to this point, the jiva's progress in spiritual life can be framed in words. Beyond it, there are even higher stages of Krsna consciousness that are indescribable. These will be revealed by the grace of Krsna. The cultivation of the conjugal loving relationship with the Lord is the highest mode of service;

by this, everincreasing Krsnaprema will be experienced. By

adopting the bhaumavrajarasa, or the vrajarasa revealed on

this material plane in Vrindavandhama, one becomes eligible to enter such conjugal love.Sri Ramananda Raya said, 'Therefore one should accept the mood

of the gopis in their service. In such a transcendental mood, one should always think of the pastimes of Sri Radha and Krsna. After thinking of Sri Sri RadhaKrsna and Their pastimes for a long time and after getting completely free from material contamination, one is transferred to the spiritual world. There the devotees attain an opportunity to serve Sri Radha and Krsna as one of the gopis. Unless one follows in the footsteps of the gopis he can not attain the service of the lotus feet of Krsna, the son of Nanda Maharaja. If one is overcome by knowledge of the Lord's opulence, he can not attain the Lord's lotus feet even though he is engaged in

devotional service." (Sri Caitanya caritamrita, Madhya 8.228230)

 

The devotee who is inclined to cultivate the conjugal rasa must accept the form of a gopi under the guidance of a superior vrajagopi. One can become a gopi when eleven transcendental sentiments adorn the heart. They are: 1) sambandha (relationship), 2) vayasa (age), 3) nama (name), 4) rupa (form), 5) yutha-pravesa

(entrance into a group), 6) vesa (attire), 7) ajna (instructions), 8) vasasthana (place of residence), 9) seva (service), 10) parakastha (excellence), 11) palyadasi-bhava (the mood of a kept maidservant).

 

Five stages of consciousness are ascended in bhavasadhana

 

The cultivation of these eleven gopi sentiments develops through five stages. They are: 1) sravana-dasa (the stage of hearing), 2) varana-dasa (the stage of acceptance), 3) smarana- z dasa (the stage of remembering), 4) apana-dasa (stage of application), and 5) sampati-dasa (stage of inheritance). Srila Ramananda Raya says, 'One who is attracted by the ecstatic love of the gopis does not care about the regulative principles of Vedic life or popular opinion. Rather, he completely surrenders unto Krsna and renders service unto Him.' 'In this liberated stage the devotee is attracted by one of the five humors (rasas) in the

transcendental loving service of the Lord. As he continues to serve the Lord in that mood, he attains a spiritual body to serve Krsna in Goloka Vrindavan.' (Sri Caitanyacaritamrita, Madhya 8.220, 8.222) So saying, Srila Ramananda Raya instructs us to first attain the form and mood of a vraja- gopi in order to obtain service in the conjugal relationship.

 

When a sadhaka devotee, having heard about Lord Krsna's pastimes, is attracted to the conjugal mellow, he should take further instruction on rasa from a realized, saintly spiritual master. This is called the stage of hearing or sravana-dasa. When the sadhaka devotee anxiously and eagerly accepts the conjugal mellow, varana-dasa commences. Then, by pure remembrance of the sentiments of rasa, he desires to practice them: thus he reaches the third stage, smarana-dasa. When he is able to perfectly invoke these sentiments of rasa, he attains apana- dasa or prapti-dasa.

Finally, when he can separate himself from all his temporary material designations and is steadily fixed in that original spiritual identity for which he yearns, he has reached sampati-dasa: the inheritance of his spiritual identity.

 

Bhajan from the stage of sravanadasa to smaranadasa.

 

If, after having tested the disciple, the spiritual master determines that he is eligible to perform bhajan and serve in the sringara rasa, he then confidentially informs the disciple about his eternal spiritual form as a manjari in Srimati Radharani's camp, under the supervision of Sri Lalitadevi. The spiritual

master teaches the disciple how to develop the eleven sentiments of the gopis, how to meditate on the asta-kaliya-lila, and how to properly be established in both.

 

So that he may fully understand them, the sadhaka is shown his siddhadeha or spiritual identity, viz. his spiritual name, form, qualities, service and so on. The spiritual master also discloses who the parents of the sadhaka's manjariidentity are, at which house she was born, who her husband is, and so on. At this

point, the disciple must spurn all Vedic religious pursuits and simply be a fully surrendered maidservant of Srimati Radharani, the camp leader; thereafter, the guru will reveal in detail the disciple's eternal service to Srimati Radharani in the asta-kaliya-lila. The sadhika (now a female sadhaki) embraces

these revelations in varanadasa. He enters into smaranadasa when he actually remembers them for himself. In this way, the sadhaka prepares himself for spiritual birth as a gopi in Vraja.

 

A digression on the subject of ruci

 

But in the beginning the spiritual master and disciple must together sort out the disciple's natural inclination (ruci) for rasa. If the disciple finds his natural taste coincides with the identity indicated by the spiritual master, he should so inform his guru and embrace that identity as his life and soul. But if the disciple does not have a natural taste for the selected z identity, he must frankly reveal this to his spiritual master, who will give him another identity. If the disciple has a taste for the new identity, he should accept it. His inherent nature will then manifest itself. Ruci or taste is the natural devotional propensity born out of bhaktisukriti, or previous devotional service. It may therefore be long standing or only recently developed. But in either case ruci is natural to the soul. When this inclination is determined by the spiritual master, it must be confirmed by the disciple. If the inclination is not fixed, the

spiritual master's instructions on rasa will not take effect.

 

Those who are not attracted to the sringararasa, preferring dasya, sakhya or vatsalya, must likewise receive instructions from the spiritual master on these relationships in order to get the fruit of their devotion, or else return to a life of anarthas.

 

The great devotee Syamananda at first was not aware of his own siddharuci or permanent devotional propensity; he was made to embrace the sakhyarasa or the mood of friendship. Later, by the grace of Srila Jiva Goswami, he attained his real position.

 

If an inappropriate ruci is falsely attached to the sadhaka, it is compared to the gopiidentity's acceptance of a husband. But by the grace of his spiritual master, the sadhaka at last attains Krsna's service in the parakiyarasa or paramour relationship. Rasa comes to a full bloom only in the parakiya mood. The summit of

Lord Caitanya's teachings is that the parakiya attitude is the permanent feature of the pastimes of the Lord, both in their appearance [when Krsna descends to Vrajabhumi] and their disappearance [into the invisible Vraja of the transcendental world].

 

The conjugal rasa is completely transcendental

 

Sringararasa is totally devoid of even an iota of materialism. The transcendental jiva, in order to enjoy and exchange pure rasa, becomes a transcendental gopi and renders devotional service to the transcendental personalities of Sri Radha and Sri Krsna in the transcendental realm of Vrindavana. There is not the slightest tinge of the mundane man-woman relationship in Vrndavana. Only the purest essence of conjugal love is manifested in the perfected identity of the soul. And realization of this is available only from a pure devotee spiritual master. Other than by his grace,

this inconceivable truth can never be understood. It is beyond the realm of speculation and pedantic scrutiny. Its realization is extremely rare.

 

[Guest guest]

Good advice, but I think vanamali here knows what she is doing.

[Guest guest]

Ok! there are some sane voices still around.

 

> you are making a show of devotion to Krishna which is

> unattainable by even the most advanced Vaishnava's

 

I read somewhere here in Audarya that when the yogis see the bhaktas, they are just amazed by the apparant simplistic attitude "simply take the name of the Lord with faith". They would think what about the ten layes of prakriti. How will they be removed. What about Pranayama. That itself takes a couple of years to perfect. This .... That .... Oh! so much to do and so little time. But I don't think they would like to pick on the bhaktas. They just leave the bhaktas alone and carry on with their enterprise to pierce through the layers of prakriti and get to the purusha.

 

Therefore, not every soul in this world is going to agree with your thought pattern. Not everyone is going to join your Guru varga. Not everyone is going to become a manjari etc.

 

I have heard a sAdhu who stresses the following point very much and I can feel close to him:

 

kAmaM krodhaM bhayaM sneham aikyam sauhRdam eva ca

nityaM harau vidadhato yAnti tan-mayatAM hi te

-Bhag 10.29.15

 

If this entails being a sahajiya, .... well what can I say .... everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion ....

 

Of course, this site is primarily a bit stoic in character (nothing wrong - definitely an appreciable quality of the Guru vargas) and in my personal opinion the majority may have strongly felt the incongruity. However, the posts do make sense to some. And I think it is very unkind to view these souls as some kind of untouchables just because they are attracted by the beauty of the Lord.

 

Anyway, once again, with due deference to your and your Guru's wishes, I would like to apologize to have hurt your feelings.

 

> doesn't the demon at least get salvation.

 

Even demons killed by Krishna also get bhakti in the end because of Krishna's "Midas touch". According to Vidyabhushana, their hostility instantly changes to love.

[i_luv_krishna]

previous post by i_luv_krishna

[sandra]

I'm not perfect myself or as advanced as many devotees here but that doesn't mean i take the process too cheaply and i don't think you are sahajiya! Sahajiya is a form of deviation from the real vaisnavism path. I didn't know myself until i came across this:

 

http://www.iskcon.org/main/twohk/philo/roots/apasam/sahajiya.htm

 

http://www.iskcon.net/milkocean/index.html

 

More:

Vaisnava sahajiya The fourteenth-century poet baru chandidas is believed to be the deviser and preacher of this creed, which he divined after coming in contact with a washerwoman named Rami. Later in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the creed, based on the Buddhist Sahajiya doctrine, started gaining ground. The followers of this doctrine believe themselves to be sahaja rasika (versed in sahaja) or travellers of the sahaja patha (simple path). The phrase sahaja patha here means love, which is human nature. The ultimate goal of a human being is to attain the self through love; and the Vaisnava sahajiya consider the body to be the best means for this. The ideals of the Vaisnava sahajiya are beauty, love and enjoyment.

 

The philosophical doctrines and practices of the Vaisnava sahajiyas are different from those of the Gaudian Vaisnavas. The Gaudian Vaisnavas believe that all philosophy lies in the human body and they take the philosophy of love allegorically, not literally unlike the Sahajiya.

 

The Vaisnava sajahiya instituted a diversified form of philosophy of love by mixing vaisnavism and the doctrines of radha and krishna in the name of Nimai and Nitaichand. Their philosophy incorporated the spiritual and the physical. According to Sahajiya philosophy, each man and woman has an inner and outer form. Thus a man has the outer form of a man, but his inner self is Krishna. Similarly, a woman has the outer form of a woman but her inner self is Radha. When the external forms unite physically, the inner selves attain the highest enjoyment. This is mahabhava or the enjoyment of sahaja. Deification of man is the basic principle of the Sahajiya doctrine.

 

The Gaudian Vaisnavas look down on the Vaisnava sahajiyas because to the latter the philosophy of love or the worship of body is of great importance. This has distanced one sect from the other and has lowered the social dignity of the Sahajiyas. Even Chandidas himself was excommunicated from the Brahmin society. Despite this fact, the philosophy gained ground and became widespread. This is now recognised as an alternative means of worshipping God.

 

A large part of medieval bangla literature is based on the Sahajiya creed. Among the people who wrote on this philosophy, Baru Chandidas is considered the best. His srikrishnakirtan depicts the basic principles of Sahajiya in a lucid manner. Many poets including Chandidas, who believed in the Sahajiya doctrine, composed verses on practices of the attainment of the self in an enigmatic language, known as ragatmika . (verses that consider pure love to be the attainment).

 

Vaisnava sahajiya literature is of two kinds: one, based on padavali (lyrics), the other, based on nivandha (composition). Poets like vidyapati and rupa goswami are proponents of the padavali literature while Baru Chandidas and krishnadasa kaviraja are proponents of nibandha literature. The prefatory parts of many pieces by less famous figures impute the works to famous names such as Vidyapati, Chandidas, Narahari Sarkar, Raghunath Das, Krsnadas Kaviraja, Narottam Das, Rupa Goswami, Sanatan Goswami, Vrindavan Das, Lochandas, and Chaitanyadas. Some noted books of Sahajiya literature are Vivartavilasa (Akinchan Das), Anandabhairava, Amrtarasavali, Agamagrantha, Premavilasa (Yugalkishore Das), Radha-Rasa-Karika, Deha-Kadcha (Narottam Das), Sahaja-Upasana-Tattva (Taruni Raman), Siddhanta-Chandrodaya, Rativilasa-Paddhati, Ragamayikana, and Ratnasara. [sambaru Chandra Mohanta]

 

In short, a sahajiya is a cheap and , i stress, pseudo devotee... And i do not think you pose as a big devotee, do you? =)

[sandra]

I agree with you that we shouldn't treat 'others' as untouchables... =) I just think that there are nice ways to correct someone or simply advise than just being blunt and harsh (especially if they're deviating?) I don't really like hurting others feelings. I know she probably shouldn't have expressed her feelings like that on the forum but it's a good thing : we get to learn from our mistakes and that of others. But i wonder what's better holding stuff that eats you away or expressing them...? Peace. =)

[Guest guest]

"I have not told anyone about these for many years, but now I am tired of hiding it. I think there may be many people having feelings like that, but are afraid that if they are open about it, they will be ridiculed. I just want such people to know that they are not alone..."

 

I offer my obeissances unto Vanamali millions of upon millions of times. I thank her for her courage in revealing a small part of her mind for the benefit of the the devotees. We need to know that someone is making progress otherwise we will begin to think that our bhakti sadhana is leading us to no where.

One time, a devotee put up a poster at chakra asking for devotees with spiritual experiences to write and I hope she will bring up something soon. It could it be that it was Vanamali?

Devotees who are having experiences need to share them so that they can grow more. There are web sites where insults are thrown generously but there are no web sites where advancing devotees can strengthen one another with their experiences and advice. I am really grateful to Vanamali for her courage. There is a tendency especially in ISKCON, to discourage devotees from talking about or showing genuine spiritual emotions with the consequences that ISKCON is always considered a society of neophyte devotees.

For the first time I come in contact with someone of the Candravalli camp. There is so little about Candravalli in our gaudiya literature. Why is it so? Did no one care for her?Fortunately Krishna has sent Vanamali and I hope she will enlighten us more if we are not only interested in commiting apparadh at her lotus feet.

I have seen devotees haul insults at those who dare belittle them but here I see Vanamali pour nectar on those who offend her. And what humility and logic she exhibits! A rare combination of both. I pray that I will never offend her even in thought.

I pray that she may favour me with her darshana in the form of correspondence. My e-mail is yuhlab@ I will be honoured to hear from her or at least to get her e-mail so that I can write.

Radha kunda das.

 

[Guest guest]

"Ruci or taste is the natural devotional propensity born out of bhaktisukriti, or previous devotional service. It may therefore be long standing or only recently developed. But in either case ruci is natural to the soul."

 

God help anyone who dares reveal heartfelt feelings here or actually puts some "soul" into their posts! Apparently the only acceptable emotion is that used in criticism of others, particularly in the case of devotional sentiments.

 

For some reason, we seldom hear of Srila Prabhupada's advice to "dovetail" such things. There was a time when they could not only be openly shared, but it was actually encouraged.

 

Personally, I followed something else I heard directly from him [also on tape somewhere] -- "Every brahmacari should fall in love with Radharani." Am I then to deny the consequences as a pretense of humility in line with whatever is socially allowed by the local clique? What nonsense!

 

Personal relationships with the Supreme can never be stifled by or stuffed into religion, let alone defined by any group convention. Thank you for your courage in exposing yourself, Vanamali. It takes great strength to show vulnerability.

 

Sadly, your openess simply provides another opportunity to certain regular members that seem to enjoy killing and disecting as their means of dealing with spiritual life, as if that will provide the higher understanding they supposedly seek. What a bleeding pity!

[theist]

Sandra. Thanks for the links. That is very much along the lines that I was seeking. The sahajiya emphasis on the body strikes me as a major blunder.

 

I keep trying to pose as a big devotee but every time I raise that head Krsna whacks it down but good. As it most of this topic sails over me and I think that's best for now.

 

My main priority is to find out who I am. I am presently being stalked by death. His hot breath is palpable on the back of my neck. Once that safety is reached I will have plenty of time to develop my relationship with Krsna and will be able to do so with a clear mind.

 

Haribol

[sandra]

The saying: Learn to walk first before running! Sound. So many people get all enthusiastic about KC (I've seen it!) and then stray from the right path... I sincerely consider myself unfit to be even the servant of the servant of the lord.. I'm so degraded really... so attached to my petty little life... but i have hope. Hope is a wonderful thing. A quote i especially like (very inspirational):

 

Appeared on the website of the Brain Tumor Research Center at Duke University. It is credited to Ellen Stovall of the National Coalition for Cancer Survivorship:

 

"With communication, comes understanding and clarity;

With understanding, fear diminishes;

In the absence of fear, hope emerges;

And in the presence of hope, anything is possible."

 

 

 

[vanamali]

My whole point was only to glorify the Lord Sri Krishna. If you like it, fine, if not, that's okay. Please do not be offended.

 

If you walk all over me, I am only too happy to have gotten the dust of your lotus feet on my head!!!

 

Jai Sri Krishna!!

[vanamali]

Radha Kunda Dasji, I will email you soon... /images/graemlins/smile.gif