zen story - Searching for Buddha

[theist]

 

A monk set off on a long pilgrimage to find the Buddha. He devoted many years to his search until he finally reached the land where the Buddha was said to live. While crossing the river to this country, the monk looked around as the boatman rowed. He noticed something floating towards them. As it got closer, he realized that it was the corpse of a person. When it drifted so close that he could almost touch it, he suddenly recognized the dead body - it was his own! He lost all control and wailed at the sight of himself, still and lifeless, drifting along the river's currents. That moment was the beginning of his liberation.

---------------

 

The inevitable moment of death can be hard to face huh?

 

 

 

[gHari]

I needed some cheering up.

 

[sandra]

Is that the whole story?

 

"That moment was the beginning of his liberation."

 

Sounds like there's another sequel coming... Searching for Buddha 2!

 

 

 

[theist]

Anytime gHari. I guess I am just the life of the party type. The thought of death certainly puts a damper on things.

 

sandra, yeah well I won't be posting any Buddhist sequels beyond that. Their view of liberation is not attractive to me.

 

But this is common to all paths. Recognizing and facing our own mortal condition. Most everyone, regardless of their professed religion, have never come to face with their own mortality. Which leaves one with just a religious version of society,friendship and love attachments. Take the monk in the story above. He no doubt had been reading sutras, doing meditation, associating and listening to his priests for a long time. But his real internally valid beginning occured when he faced his own mortality.

 

 

Here is a verse and purport from Srimad Bhagavatam that illustrate a similar point.

 

TRANSLATION SB 7.2.57

 

Thus Yamaräja, in the guise of a small boy, told all the queens: You are all so foolish that you lament but do not see your own death. Afflicted by a poor fund of knowledge, you do not know that even if you lament for your dead husband for hundreds of years, you will never get him back alive, and in the meantime your lives will be finished.

 

PURPORT

 

Yamaräja once asked Mahäräja Yudhisthira, “What is the most wonderful thing within this world?” Mahäräja Yudhisthira replied (Mahäbhärata, Vana-parva 313.116):

ahany ahani bhütäni

gacchantéha yamälayam

çeñäù sthävaram icchanti

kim äçcaryam ataù param

 

 

Hundreds and thousands of living entities meet death at every moment, but a foolish living being nonetheless thinks himself deathless and does not prepare for death. This is the most wonderful thing in this world. Everyone has to die because everyone is fully under the control of material nature, yet everyone thinks that he is independent, that whatever he likes he can do, that he will never meet death but live forever, and so on. So-called scientists are making various plans by which living entities in the future can live forever, but while they are thus pursuing such scientific knowledge, Yamaräja, in due course of time, will take them away from their business of so-called research.

 

 

[sandra]

Coming Back:

The Science of Reincarnation

based on the teachings of

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

 

Everyone Knows, l Am Not This Body

Srila Prabhupada: It is not difficult. You can experience it. It is only because of foolishness that people think differently; but everyone really knows, "I am not this body." This is very easy to experience. I am existing. I understand that I have existed in a baby's body, I have existed in a child's body, and also in a boy's body. I have existed in so many bodies, and now I am in an old man's body. Or, for example, say you have now put on a black coat. The next moment you may put on a white coat. But you are not that black or white coat; you have simply changed coats. If I call you "Mr. Black Coat," that is my foolishness. Similarly, in my lifetime I have changed bodies many times, but I am not any of these bodies. This is real knowledge.

 

Prof. Durckheim: And yet isn't there a difficulty? For instance, you may have already intellectually understood very well that you are not the body—but you may still have the fear of death. Doesn't that mean you didn't understand it by experience? As soon as you've understood by experience, you should have no fear of death, because you know that you can't really die.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Experience is received from a higher authority, from someone who has higher knowledge. Instead of my trying to experience for years and years that I am not this body, I can take the knowledge from God, or Krishna, the perfect source. Then I have experienced my deathlessness by hearing from a bona fide authority. That is perfect.

 

Prof. Durckheim: Yes, I understand.

 

Srila Prabhupada: Therefore, the Vedic instruction is tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet. "In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach a guru." And who is a guru? Whom should I approach? I should approach someone who has heard perfectly from his guru. This is called disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge in the same way, without any change. Lord Krishna gives us knowledge in Bhagavad-gita, and we distribute the same knowledge, without changing it.

 

Prof. Durckheim: Over the past twenty or thirty years there has been a great awakening of interest in spiritual topics in the Western part of the world. But, on the other hand, if the scientists want to eliminate the human self, they are well on the way to doing it with their atomic bombs and other technical innovations. If they want to guide humanity to some higher goal, however, then they have to stop looking at man in a materialistic way through their scientific spectacles. They must look at us as we are—conscious selves.

 

---

 

I used to go sell books on the streets (back in Mauritius, my homeland) and like, i read most of the smaller books like Perfect Questions Perfect Answers... They're real gripping. I really relish discourses such as these. Very accurate and scientific!

 

 

[sandra]

http://www.deathclock.com/

 

My Personal Day of Death is on Sunday, September 26, 2060!

 

[theist]

I also find them gripping. The same thing can be said by someone who is still on the theoretical plane and it doesn't register in the same way as when Prabhupada says it.

 

I also greatly like the conversations where Prabhupada may not have understood the question from a guest in the way the guest meant it so he appears to answer something else. The potency remains

[AncientMariner]

I had a Buddhist friend who once told me that most people do not get spiritual until they are about to die. I am not even completely sure that is true because a lot of people are probably still dreaming of sense gratification when they die.

[theist]

In principle he is right but perhaps not in what happens day to day.

 

It's true of every 'faith'. We say we accept, we say we believe we glide along performing our required rituals but all the while unwilling to face this shared stark reality.

 

In that sense I would agree with Marx about religion being the opiate of the people. At least we use it like that.

 

Until we can stare death in the eye and say, "Oh death where is thy sting?" how can we possibly lay claim to our own eternality?

[AncientMariner]

Yep your absolutely right. Until we are situated to where we know beyond all doubt that we are eternal we are enslaved or even addicted to some form of religous ritualism.

[krsna]

What is that story of the king who took with him his pretty young daughter to the bed of a dying man (that man immediately glanced lustfully at the king's daughter) wanting to know if men still lust over women at the time of death ?

[theist]

It seems that there is a fine line between religious ritualism and those very same practices when done with the intention of deveoping love of God. There is a lot to be said about being lucid in our sadhana.

 

Here is another verse on our friend sri deathji.

 

TRANSLATION SB 8.22.11

 

Only by providence have I been forcibly brought under Your lotus feet and deprived of all my opulence. Because of the illusion created by temporary opulence, people in general, who live under material conditions, facing accidental death at every moment, do not understand that this life is temporary. Only by providence have I been saved from that condition.

 

PURPORT

[snip]

Actually, everyone should fear the so-called society, friendship and love for which he works so hard all day and night. [snip]

[theist]

TRANSLATION SB 2.1.13

 

The saintly King Khatvanga, after being informed that the duration of his life would be only a moment more, at once freed himself from all material activities and took shelter of the supreme safety, the Personality of Godhead.

 

Unlike the monk in the story above he didn't experience shock.

[theist]

I forgot. I'll have to look tommorrow unless you find it tonight. I am being forcibly dragged to death..er..sleep now.

 

Hare Krsna

[Kulapavana]

in the words of my (now deceased) hippie friend:

 

"death, man... the biggest tripp you will ever take"

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

"A Moments association with a Mayavadi you can attain All Imperfection"

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[theist]

What?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

What?

 

Sorry it was because I met this psedeo {is that the right spelling?} devotee on-line by mistake I was informed he was a Mayavadi, it was on chat. I uninstalled it!

 

I really have to watch whom I associate with now. Better have just couple of devotees who I TRUST. This TRUST word seems to be important for me lately. Anyway whats this thread about again? lol

[theist]

it's about your impending death.

 

lol But your not alone.

 

But don't let that make you feel better. We still die alone.

 

Hare Krishna

 

ps the letters of the mantra in your signature are too small to read now.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

ps the letters of the mantra in your signature are too small to read now.

 

 

 

I know. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

I never think about the fact that I may die but I have for sure thought 'about' dying in my life. Its wierd and ironic isn't it? Its like when you want something and you don't get it then later on you do but then you don't really want it.

 

 

 

<DIV id=FvLayer1 style="FILTER: alpha(opacity=100), dropShadow(color=#ff000000, offx=0, offy=0); FONT-SIZE: 21px; HEIGHT: 103px; LEFT: 33px; POSITION: absolute; TOP: 69px; WIDTH: 750px; Z-INDEX: 2"><P align=center><font color="#0000ffface=TimesNewRoman">Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare</FONT></P>

<P align=center><font color="#0000ffface=TimesNewRoman">Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare</FONT></P></DIV>

[harish]

A touching tale, but thinking of death helps achieving Vairagya. Only lord Vishnu can protect one from the fear of death which is inevitable. Chant the praise of Hari at the time of death.

 

How much time do we have till we die to achieve knowledge of Vishnu?

[theist]

 

I never think about the fact that I may die but I have for sure thought 'about' dying in my life.

 

 

Not "may die" but WILL die. Yeah that is true of all of us. We like to keep it abstact, at arms length, a topic to be discussed (but not too often, it brings everyone's mood down).

 

That is one thing I got from story above. The need to a direct confrontation with the reality of death beyond all the mental chit chat about it.

 

 

Its wierd and ironic isn't it? Its like when you want something and you don't get it then later on you do but then you don't really want it.

 

 

Yeah no satisfaction. Or even if we get it when we want it we quickly become disillusioned with it and want something else.

 

They say the only exception is wanting Krsna and getting Krsna.

 

Whoa! I never wrote the mantra below it just appeared when i added your quote. I think it is your old signature or something.

 

Anyway I am going to accept it as a Divine appearance. Like Mother Mary appearing in a reflection. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

 

 

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

 

 

 

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

 

 

 

[theist]

 

A touching tale, but thinking of death helps achieving Vairagya. Only lord Vishnu can protect one from the fear of death which is inevitable. Chant the praise of Hari at the time of death.

 

 

Yes and it is that vairagya which will be tested at the time of death. That is another lesson one can glean from the story. So best to die to our attachments now then to have them ripped away at death. That takes some sound inner work. just stating the fact of the inevitable won't be enough.

 

Yes, and some devotees become so entranced by their chanting the name of Hari that they don't even notice the bodily death when it happens. They left this world long ago it seems.

 

 

How much time do we have till we die to achieve knowledge of Vishnu?

 

 

Calculating the odds? We all do that and to our peril. Our next moment is not guarunteed. Whenever we surrender to Vishnu it will be now. So why not now?

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I didn't think it would do that either. The Maha-Mantra is meant to show up on Page 1 of this Thread in big green letters. Amazing.

[theist]

I saw that just after I posted that last post. Pretty clever. Almost subliminal.