Jaya Visnupada!

[kailasa]

Probably who that will tell that Visnupad has fallen, therefore He was not the true guru. But excuse, I and others, have received so much from HIM. If I have received so much spiritual direct experience from guru as I can tell that it was not authoritative?

 

How I can feel what that bad feelings for Him even if He has left movement? In any case, the spiritual teacher worked on me 15 years. And cleanly actually I OWE to Him these 15 years at least! 15 years I operated as the fool and as soon as the guru had problems, now it is necessary to throw Him and to run? No.

 

There can be what that leaders of other organizations "have not fallen"? But whether there is at them or at their pupils even a part of what we ALLOCATE in Harikesa Svami? That did we perceive that DIRECTLY from HIM?

 

Actually, as to Harikesa Svami, essence here not in losses of the status sanyasa. No. Well, He " has decided to marry ". But all this not essentially. Srila Prabhupada writes - " sanyasis in that case can become grihastha " (if wants to marry). Here a problem not that who that has changed Ashram. Well - here a problem that who that has fallen with sanyasa which has accepted in 20 years. There were no at Prabhupada other people. In ISKCON as having received sanyasa you do not become sovereign mister, shooting down under it also sastra as GM.

 

I to you shall tell that in some organizations - they in fact not fools. If you "are not perspective", fools are not present to suffer for you. They can much what speak, but is real many of them simply use pupils. Well, is kanistha adhikari which the God punishes for their nonsense thus probably.

 

In ISKCON they were children, accepting sanyas in 20 years. So such sanyas can become difficulty.( Some "sanyasi" GM at that time already prepared for war with ISKCON and Prabhupada) Precisely as and now guru ISKCON is pulled all pupils - from here problems. ISKCON, at least which I know, does not practise cheap stuff - sahajiya. And as ISKCON not impersonal, when to authority all the same that there with your spiritual life. GM important that you would receive "initiation". It means that now you of "them" and of it to you will remind on a regular basis. It means that they "true".

 

Actually this absence of knowledge and belief. When the pupil convinces itself " that all correctly ". Especially delightfully to prove it to anothers, that " our guru true ". /images/graemlins/smile.gif) Yes our guru is on Goloka, is the fact. My both gurus therefrom and many others still as. Well also what GM proves? Whose that authorities are even higher? So it where? Above Goloka? Above Goloka again begins Vaikuntha.

 

Arguments on sanyasa are interesting. It is possible to see that true mayavadis all naistika brahmacaris as a rule. And if they such brahmacaris, the true means mayavada? We are on the interesting moment. Lord Caitanya has accepted sanyasa only for the sake of mayavadis. SBST as has won in all their such high-grade image. But it is interesting what true proves the fact brahmacari? If who that preaches a certain invention that 4 principles can prove invention? No.

 

Guru ISKCON so much time spend for that what to help anothers. But there are also others which "have so promoted" that him you deeply all the same receive a spiritual management whether or not. These are those who anything never risk, and what for? They is "uttama".

 

Therefore guru ISKCON have difficulties. Eventually these difficulties are inevitable and for example from primary pupils GM in general remained a few people. The reality is those. SBST reformed this system of peasants - babaji. His named the simha-guru because He did not operate in "standard" pseudo traditions of " the restrained sadhu-materialists ".

 

And Visnupad operated in the same spirit. In what still there can be a reason of what Srila Prabhupada has told - " favourite grandson Bhaktisiddhanta "? Because Visnupad was that who most better embodied this mood SBST.

 

Now look further. Visnupad at "life" has specified in fact to the senior pupils of the USSR that guru whom they should follow. Simply look at the facts - all senior pupils Visnupadа of the former USSR cooperate with one guru. They have accepted Him as diksa guru or siksa guru. I do not want to make a cult as at us in ISKCON many remarkable gurus and are uniform system, but for the sake of cult Visnupadа nevertheless I shall notice such fact.

 

After leaving Visnupadа I know that was difficult to accept whom that. Personally I always followed many gurus and accepted their gurus. And they by the way as always reciprocated. When Visnupad has left, at me personally was 10 about the guru. Which I knew also which ALREADY enough were my gurus. As I never followed only to one guru (and there is no such concept of the guru). Therefore somewhat it seemed that the big problem is not present. But it is real, later, certainly I have understood that the problem is, why? - from for attachments.

 

I cannot exclude this experience received from Visnupadа. And all these experiences for all this time. All this is real also all this spiritually. Certainly, the supersoul operates in each spiritual teacher. But one certain incomprehensible moment in Visnupadе was, He was what that the amazing PERSON. All this was very much personally, it was not impersonal. It not was simply certain brahman. Whom that Visnupad some disciple personally pushed and ignored. But even ignoring! It has been filled with ecstasy (a sight from the side).

 

It actually His experience with Prabhupada. Prabhupada always punished Him. Visnupad spoke about it is " with others Prabhupada was even on equal ". Why, because He protected Him. Precisely as also care Vishnupad of one disciple not recognizing him. And all this personally!

 

He has taken and has made of other disciple of the good guru, devotee and the person. Well the person he always was good, only without Harikesa Svami in the USSR in past time then any normal would not survive.

 

Has taken and has made from the third disciple too the good leader. What to speak - guru Vishnupad whether or not? Look at His disciples! Each of them preaches on a half of the world. That there who that murmurs about "acaryas". Even some disciples of the "fallen (!)" guru make spiritually more, than "acaryas" all taken together. This the fact.

 

All is really "acaryas" follow for ISKCON, it is not difficult for proving and showing.

 

And as Visnupad has transferred the disciples to other guru whom we as very much love also which there is our guru, ours Visnupad and our Srila Prabhupada!

 

Now think and answer to me - as to me, knowing set of these facts and it is a lot of still other facts, to not recognize Harikesa Svami? If to develop in general all picture it will turn out that it is necessary to recognize Him. There are affairs which HE has made and this fact is not possible for ignoring! There are affairs which are made on time forward as. It is simple the facts. In it there is no belief or bias.

 

Certainly in ISKCON many gurus are our gurus. My gurus and each other guru from them it is transcendentally unique. Each of them simply gives itself and thus we have a spiritual life. Besides as well as I was necessary to a stupid dog simply I follow for... Visnupad, having accepted whom He has specified. It is made long before "falling" therefore to me difficultly to tell that it not so. And I am not disappointed. Moreover, everything, that should give me on sastra, the guru, I have received. So what claims can be at me?

 

Basically I should not receive many blessings and I know it. But I have received them and consequently as I can not like a spiritual life? How I can be not adhered to the diksa guru? But on the other hand as it is possible to ignore all my previous experience?

 

Really it is the same guru. Really the guru one also is not present two gurus. Nevertheless each of the guru the person. Really it also is sampradaya - set of transcendental persons. In what actually spiritual taste? How you think than the God enjoys? Than we - whether enjoy a variety? In what actually humility, if the guru "one"? In what here there can be a true? How it in general is possible? And what for it is necessary? It impersonal a position or a material position, here would be not necessary be the professor what to understand it.

 

As to that spoke Visnupad about Srila Prabhupada. That in the first is family. In the second it simply an echo of that tried to pour out a dirty on ISKCON the some people at that time. And it to what resisted Harikesa Svami.

 

Too most and ISKCON. Would be silly to think that all ISKCON or each of us so it is strongly devoted to Prabhupada. Devoted certainly, in a different degree. But what Prabhupada do not use? Use undoubtedly. Besides Visnupad has blocked their way. He has blocked way ISKCON sahajiyas for example. That was after His leaving - sahajiyas began to beat in drums and urgently to alter ISKCON in " correct Gaudiya ". This following to Srila Prahupada? - No. Probably it is a part of a spiritual life. Can be. But it never should become all or a basis of all - never. Because not in it essence of a spiritual life, the sermon Lord Caitanya, Srila Bhaktisiddhana and Srila Prabhupada's moods.

 

Therefore Harikesa Svami the most dear grandson Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura. That the most dear son Srila Prabhupada means. Because He UNDERSTOOD all this. Because He made all meaningly. He has left? - yes, He has left. He could not leave? YES, HE COULD NOT LEAVE. For this purpose He should depart aside and to give way karmis. But He has not made it.

 

Well and as though you have acted on His place? What interestingly it is better - to have "good" relations with karmis-kalicelas-kanisthas or so to be crucifixion? Therefore it is position Visnupadа - " to be lost in battle better, than to pray in a corner ". All witnesses that it His words which He spoke not once.

 

We should leave from this black-and-white world. The world color, he not black-and-white. To accept all or to not accept anybody is absence reason. " Completely to accept " Visnupadа for example or after completely His to reject - too most. This absence of reason. (I do not follow His today's position).

 

In general probably there are only two positions-

 

The first position is a devotee - neophyte - true the servant of all.

 

The second position is "advanced" devotee. (an average part)

 

That that the third simply is not present in the nature! Of you or do the first, or the second. Therefore wonderfully developing in a role of the servant, the person through what that time takes a position advanced devotee! And if to try to communicate on simple with such devotees there will be a mis-un-der-stan-ding. From what it you suddenly? And you have accepted me as authority? You all over again accept me, and then and we shall talk. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

I understand that simply is not necessary for the some neither a spiritual life, nor dialogue. Certain "authority" or another's which would increase their image is simply necessary for them. They do not want to think. What for to think, to create material system and any anxieties better. The authority what to divide all on "correct" devotee and "wrong" devotee is necessary for us, instead of that what to understand philosophy KC.

 

Therefore such "authorities" (an average link) suffer as they do not have not enough normal dialogue. And then such "authorities" leave from ISKCON, suddenly informing all many different "revelations". Others " not authorities " up to what that of the moment cannot anything plainly and in what that the moment become next "authority".

 

We should become simply than that to average - madhyama. We should not become than that big or than that too small. Give everyone will accept the natural size. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Eventually even Krishna speaks - " be better itself, than whom that another o Arjuna. " /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

As this system GM - " it is true, because the authority has told ", no, it not so. Truly, because sastra confirms. True authority it is necessary to accept with reason. Srila Prabhupada writes about it is " not blindly, uttama ". Different lectures can differ, but the reason is necessary what to understand, what even different lectures can be true. Thus sampradaya learns us. All philosophy - acintya bheda abheda - unity and difference.

 

Srila Prabhupada has specified GBC every year to discuss this theme - unity and difference. Unity and difference of that? Everything because it is essence only. Unity and difference of a spiritual life. Therefore the third is necessary to make of this system "authority" and " not " authorities.

 

Precisely just as all these discussions - ritviks - cultism - impersonal. The answer is already given - siksa sampradaya. Ritviks it is materialism. Cultism it is not perfect, and in itself does not answer installations sastras. Impersonal in general the devil concept, a devil preaches Impersonal. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Therefore the answer - siksa sampradaya - the union devotees. ISKCON. ISKCON ALREADY so it is made acarya. The true form of a spiritual life is those. Certainly, the circuit the "guru - disciple" is the eternal circuit. But in the first we should understand its essence, and in the second it always exists in siksa sampradaya. One diksa guru cannot make all. Not a question of the theory, it it is possible and to prove and show it. Uttama adhikari - SBST and Srila Prabhupada established siksa sampradaya, the true is those. Therefore if you search uttama, they present. All who follow for uttama and can become uttama. ISKCON it is a principle madhyama adhikari at least, it not a principle kanistha adhikari which are separated.

 

If who that counts that that that imperfect in ISKCON so find adherents and make .. This dialogue which exists, we and create him.

 

One preach in one image, others another in .. That all than that what for would become necessary to one? One sermon another involves one, other people. It is possible to discuss philosophy and then we shall understand her, well and how this or that cultism will help? It will not help.

 

Similar that ISKCON has received the ground in Moscow. Yes, it is the certain victory. Symbolicalally as that the leader of Russian ISKCON - Bhaktivigyana Gosvami Maharaja has met at this time with Harikesa Prabhu. /images/graemlins/smile.gif It is natural. Therefore let me to repeat words of one of agents of KGB during first arrival Harikesa Svami to the USSR - " jaya Visnupad ". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Haribol, thanks for sharing your realizations, Kailasa (you are getting pretty good at this communication with the english crowd, good work). I share your sentiments, not necessarily for the person you glorify, because I do not know him. But I do think it is important for all devotees to recognize the roles Srila Prabhupadas disciples have had on our own development as vaisnavas.

 

So many have such bad things to say about srila prabhupadas disciples, because we love to see others demonstrate human frailty. Maybe this makes us feel superior or something. But if this science is transcendental to time and space, then what harm is there in remembering devotees in better days, and who says that we cannot chant with Srila Prabhupada at Thompkins Square Park while the world trade center is being erected?

 

These devotees, some of whom have had difficulty, offered the sweet youth to Srila Prabhupada to help him spread this movement. Rather than having our disappointment and disillusionment eat us alive, I think that it is better meditating on how pleasing such service of the disciples was to Srila Prabhupada. No amount of apostacy can overcome such pleasure of the Vaisnava Acarya.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[kailasa]

Thanks Prabhu. You good reader, then some memory come for me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Yes. We need be people first. I am take so many experience with Visnupada. It first darsan Lord Caitanay take for me Visnupad. I am see His, Prabhupada dnd Lord Caitanya. It is start for madhyama adhikara. I am write this only for glory Harikesi Prabhu. I am doubth, when many guru be able take this darsan.

 

Srila Prabhupada come see theis tehemple Moskow, mahaksadasa. We write many arguments about this new themple in Russian forums. Themple not wall, themple pfilosophy. I am sure what Srila Prabhupada glad when we discuss spiritual science, when we try understand spiritual with reason. This wey uttama and Srila Prabhupada give so many blessings for us.

 

Thanks, your servant kailasa. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Yes, we must always try to focus on the best in each other -- past, present and future as well. In this common endeavor we share there is no loss or diminishing. What istruly positive will remain as all negativity inevitably peels away. All things take time after all, but what from our limited perspective appears loss can also be understood quite differently. Who are we to judge anyone after all?

 

I firmly believe that Sri Guru is One, although many may be given that role at any particular time. What's more, my personal faith is that it's possible for a sincere disciple to support his/her gurudeva spiritually, not simply physically or emotionally. We are all jiva souls together on this miraculous journey and each can bolster the others' faith with their own, internally if not externally by example.

 

The waves may seem humongous, the storms often impossibly severe, however they will surely pass and the sun peek out of the clouds once again. It ain't over 'til it's over and there's a very long way to go yet. All glories to His Divine Grace, whose faith and trust in every one of us brought light into our darkness, enabling more than we could ever have imagined!

[Kulapavana]

Harikesa Prabhu is definitely on his way back into pure Krishna Consciousness. He has probably done more service to Srila Prabhupada than all those who criticize him put together. Such good deeds will bear fruit in time.

[Guest guest]

Haribol, thanks for the positive, much better than the negative. Srila Prabhupada has taught that one can be a pure vaisnava immediately, despite the baggage we may carry around.

 

So we all know great devotees who may have had difficulties. Our duty is to support their krsna consciousness regardless of our temporary disappointments. I try to think of apostacy as a relapse of the disease of forgetfulness. Ajamila is the perfect example. He wasnt always a jerk, in his youth, he was krsna conscious.

 

Something happened to place a cloud of forgetfulness around him, but we must remember that we are not alone in our relationship with krsna and his representatives. Krsna remembers ajamila pure devotional service even while ajamila is asleep with his jerkdom. In fact, krsna made ajamila name his son "narayana". Krsna knew ajamila would be reminded eventually, so he took the initiative by having the name NARAYANA uttered by his wayward servant, and the purification descends, always descends, krsna controls any advancement a devotee may have.

 

For pure devotees (I call em pure devotees because srila prabhupada calls his disciples pure devotees), the minor forgetfulness comes and goes, this is the kanistha adhikari stage, and even in clearing (madhyama), there are still clouds. It is too dangerous for folks to pretend that mercy and justice are our business. We cannot damn anyone to permanent forgetfullness, especially those who have been quite pleasing to Srila Prabhupada in the past. They may have forgotten their service to god and guru, but god and guru do not forget.

 

When the unfortunate cloud of forgetfulness leaves the devotee, a devotee will cheer at hearing the news, knowing fully well that all the results of sinful activity is totally destroyed once rememberance again occurs.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Prabhus.

[Guest guest]

Raskals.

[Guest guest]

***Raskals.

 

It is for moderators.

[Guest guest]

If who that counts that that that imperfect in ISKCON so find adherents and make . This dialogue which exists, we and create him.

 

One preach in one image, others another in . That all than that what for would become necessary to one? One sermon another involves one, other people. It is possible to discuss philosophy and then we shall understand her, well and how this or that cultism will help? It will not help.

[Guest guest]

For 3 time you theach more be clean. Boys.

 

If who that counts that that that imperfect in ISKCON so

find adherents and make .. This dialogue which exists, we and create him.

 

One preach in one image, others another in .. That all than that what for would become necessary to one? One sermon another involves one, other people. It is possible to discuss philosophy and then we shall understand her, well and how this or that cultism will help? It will not help.

 

 

[kailasa]

You not has any right "edite" posts anothers. I am has nice mantra and I am send her you FREE if you be edited posts anothers.

 

This forum take SOME place for preach it is good. But you do not has owner all people stay here. If you has forum it is not means - you dictate anothers.

 

You boys so many speak - "ISKCON karmis, ISKCON dictate", but you first karmis. First person leave "bad ISKCON", second go strange things. If you be do this things, I am work for yours big reklam in Russia.

[Guest guest]

I take it you have a Ph.D. in English Literature?

[Guest guest]

First person leave "bad ISKCON", second go strange things

 

you are already going strange things praising a fallen sannyasi with no intention to correct his behaviour and understanding,one of the greatest cheaters in iskcon history, as a great devotee

 

i think this is an offence for real great and sincere devotees

 

it is only politic... sannyasis are falling and the message is that they are not really falling but progressing...

 

do not make a cheap thing of iskcon

[Guest guest]

***you are already going strange things praising a fallen sannyasi with no intention to correct his behaviour and understanding,one of the greatest cheaters in iskcon history, as a great devotee

 

Yes. Visnupad save ISKCON 1 time at least. But no 1 tieme. Srila Prabhupada speak - " It is most dear grandson SBST." May it is has some value for you? You follower whom?

 

***i think this is an offence for real great and sincere devotees

 

Who real great and sincere? You take theys name? Or it is secret?

 

***it is only politic...

 

No.

 

***sannyasis are falling and the message is that they are not really falling but progressing...

 

He is fall, and I am not speak - " this is good". Read carefully. I am speak another things.

 

***do not make a cheap thing of iskcon

 

Yes. All reason all heard (?). Needs stay in ISKCON - it is real - greatnes, sincereies and humble. It is test Caitanya Mahaprabhu. What bad in ISKCON?

[Guest guest]

***I take it you have a Ph.D. in English Literature?

 

No, is future may be. Me theacer Jagat - He is Ph.D.

[Guest guest]

Prabhu why you do not write me original post? If you theach see own mistakes it is good qualiti.

 

In ISKCON has one throuble may be - be guru. But GBC we needs understand - so many throubles with sanyasa. I am not desire be guru, then I am not has this obstakles.

[Guest guest]

Any way - be brahman it is not be guru. Guru needs back to Godhead disciple - it is not so simple.

 

ISKCON needs guru-grihastha. Has some nice guru-grihastha. I am do not know because GBC do not protect this. In Russia one Prabhu grihastha nice senior devotee may be guru ( He is not take choise himself ). Prithu Prabhu may guru-grihastha?

[Guest guest]

Some so weak.

[Guest guest]

Yes. Visnupad save ISKCON 1 time at least. But no 1 tieme. Srila Prabhupada speak - " It is most dear grandson SBST." May it is has some value for you?

••great value.. but now we have to say that he's fallen, not progressing.. or everyone will have a perverted idea of the morality in iskcon/gaudya vaishnava sampradaya

 

You follower whom?

••prabhupada, gurudeva, vaishnavas, krsna, radha, gauranga etc.

 

***i think this is an offence for real great and sincere devotees

Who real great and sincere?

•••you for example are much more better.. you are not cheating people showing yourself as sannyasi

 

Needs stay in ISKCON -

••to stay in iskcon is to live in the prabhupad's iskcon way.. not adopting a label

 

What bad in ISKCON?

••the falling of so many gurus that makes necessary for many people to concoct a more cheap idea of what's a guru or a sannyasi to be auto-convinced that everything in iskcon is going well . If people would have more higher expectations from sannyasis, gurus and leaders the things would be better

 

in my oipinion

[Guest guest]

Yes. Visnupad save ISKCON 1 time at least. But no 1 tieme. Srila Prabhupada speak - " It is most dear grandson SBST." May it is has some value for you?

••great value.. but now we have to say that he's fallen, not progressing..

 

Yes. But artikle in some another sence.

 

***or everyone will have a perverted idea of the morality in iskcon/gaudya vaishnava sampradaya

 

Envy - more big dangerous.

 

•••you for example are much more better.. you are not cheating people showing yourself as sannyasi

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif Yes, it is rigth. Krisna speak - "stay in own nathure". It is good advise. "Best work imperfect own duti, then (?) perfect another man duti (?)." But I am not more big Visnupada. If He is left - then He is build temple Bhaktivinoda in Mayapur.

 

••to stay in iskcon is to live in the prabhupad's iskcon way.. not adopting a label

 

ISKCON follow for Prabhupada. Nobody not follow more Prabhupada then (?) ISKCON.

 

••the falling of so many gurus

 

Guru falling ewerywhere.

 

***that makes necessary for many people to concoct a more cheap idea of what's a guru or a sannyasi to be auto-convinced that everything in iskcon is going well .

 

No neeeds take initiation blindly. It is duti disciple. Another - if disciple do not follow. then sanyasi is fall. Caitanya Mahaprabhu spek in this case - "do not take many disciple."

 

***If people would have more higher expectations from sannyasis, gurus and leaders the things would be better

 

Yes.

 

***in my oipinion

 

Thanks Prabhu.

[Guest guest]

Lets see you write in Russian.

[Guest guest]

***or everyone will have a perverted idea of the morality in iskcon/gaudya vaishnava sampradaya

Envy - more big dangerous.

••yes.. but the interpretation as envy of any attempt to discriminate from right and wrong is mayavadism

 

••to stay in iskcon is to live in the prabhupad's iskcon way.. not adopting a label

ISKCON follow for Prabhupada. Nobody not follow more Prabhupada then (?) ISKCON.

••yes.. who lives following prabhupada is iskcon.. you are right

 

the falling of so many gurus

Guru falling ewerywhere.

••and we are sorry for this falling... everywhere

 

No neeeds take initiation blindly. It is duti disciple.

••so be discriminative when you speak of false and true guru and sannyasi.. in this way there'll be no danger of blind following

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

***Guru falling ewerywhere.

••and we are sorry for this falling... everywhere

 

Has standart process for falling sanyasis.

 

***No neeeds take initiation blindly. It is duti disciple.

••so be discriminative when you speak of false and true guru and sannyasi.. in this way there'll be no danger of blind following

 

Needs listen, from sound spiritual life emanate.