Rudra

[Guest guest]

who is Rudra

[shambu]

Rudra means Anger. Although generally peaceful, Lord Shiva becomes very angry sometimes, and he destroys the Universe!

[Guest guest]

Rudra means anger??

 

http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/6/79/en1

 

Rudra, who is an expansion of Sadasiva and who appears in unlimited universes, is also a gunavatara [qualitative incarnation] and is the ornament of all the demigods in the endless universes.

 

There are eleven expansions of Rudra, or Lord Siva. They are as follows: Ajaikapat, Ahibradhna, Virupaksha, Raivata, Hara, Bahurupa, Devasreshtha Tryambaka, Savitra, Jayanta, Pinaki and Aparajita. Besides these expansions there are eight forms of Rudra called earth, water, fire, air, sky, the sun, the moon and soma-yaji. Generally all these Rudras have five faces, three eyes and ten arms. Sometimes it is found that Rudra is compared to Brahma and considered a living entity. But when Rudra is explained to be a partial expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is compared to Sesha. Lord Siva is therefore simultaneously an expansion of Lord Vishnu and, in his capacity for annihilating the creation, one of the living entities. As an expansion of Lord Vishnu he is called Hara, and he is transcendental to the material qualities, but when he is in touch with tamo-guna he appears contaminated by the material modes of nature. This is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Brahma-samhita. In Srimad-Bhagavatam, Tenth Canto, it is stated that Lord Rudra is always associated with the material nature when she is in the neutral, unmanifested stage, but when the modes of material nature are agitated he associates with material nature from a distance. In the Brahma-samhita the relationship between Vishnu and Lord Siva is compared to that between milk and yogurt. Milk is converted into yogurt by certain additives, but although milk and yogurt have the same ingredients, they have different functions. Similarly, Lord Siva is an expansion of Lord Vishnu, yet because of his taking part in the annihilation of the cosmic manifestation, he is considered to be changed, like milk converted into yogurt. In the Puranas it is found that Siva appears sometimes from the heads of Brahma and sometimes from the head of Vishnu. The annihilator, Rudra, is born from Sankarshana and the ultimate fire to burn the whole creation. In the Vayu Purana there is a description of Sadasiva in one of the Vaikuntha planets. That Sadasiva is a direct expansion of Lord Krishna's form for pastimes. It is said that Sadasiva (Lord Sambhu) is an expansion from the Sadasiva in the Vaikuntha planets (Lord Vishnu) and that his consort, Mahamaya, is an expansion of Rama-devi, or Lakshmi. Mahamaya is the origin or birthplace of material nature

[Guest guest]

My friend, the link you give is from Gauranga Sampradayic point of view.

 

If i wanted to find out about Krishna, i could ask someone from this sapradiya (or from one of the many other sampradiyas who worship Krishna), but to learn about Shiva or Rudra you would need to ask someone who worships Him.

 

This is because as Srila Prabhupada says, Krishna only reveals himself to His Bhakta, similarly know Shiva, you must be His devotee.

 

And another point i would like to make is that even thou i myself have heard that Shiva is 'born', He is in actual fact also known as 'Aja', or the eternal one! Thats a point to think about!

[shambu]

Sri Brahma-samhita,

TEXT 16

 

"The function of SHAMBHU in relation to jivas is that this universe enshrining the mundane egotistic principle has originated from SHAMBHU."

 

PURPORT:

 

The basic principle is the Supreme Lord Himself who is the embodiment of the principle of existence of all entities devoid of seperating egotisms. In this mundane world the appearence of individual entities as seperated egotistic symbols, is the limited perverted reflection of the unalloyed spiritual (cit) potency; and, as representing the primal masculine divine generative function SHAMBHU, it is united to the accomodating principle, viz., the mundane female organ which is the perverted reflection of the spiritual (cit) potency, Ramaadevi. At this function SHAMBHU is nothing but the mere material causal principle embodying the extension in the shape of ingredient as matter. (you follow?)

Again when in course of the progressive evolution of mundane creation each universe is manifested, then in the principle of SHAMBHU, BORN OF THE SPACE BETWEEN THE TWO EYEBROWS OF VISNU, there appears the manifestation of the personality of RUDRA; yet under all circumstances SHAMBHU fully enshrines the MUNDANE EGOTISTIC PRINCIPLE. The innumerable jivas as spiritual particles emanating from the oversoul in the form of pencils of rays of effulgence, have no relation with the mundane world when they come to know themselves to be the eternal servants of the Supreme Lord. They are then incorporated into the realm of Vaikuntha. But when they desire to lord it over Maya, forgetting their real identity, the egotistic principle SHAMBHU entering into their identities makes them identify as seperate enjoyers of mundane entities.

Hence SHAMBHU is the primary principle of the egotistic mundane universe and of perverted egotism in jivas that identifies itself with their limited material bodies.

 

Sri Brahma-samhita,

TEXT 45

 

"Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause -milk- so I adore the primeval LORD GOVINDA of whom the state of SHAMBHU is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction."

 

PURPORT:

 

(The real nature of SHAMBHU, the presiding Deity of Maheshadhama, is described.) SHAMBHU is not a second Godhead other than KRSNA. Those who entertain such discriminating sentiment, commit a great offense against the Supreme Lord. The supremacy of SHAMBHU is subservient to that of GOVINDA; hence they are not really different from each other. The non-distinction is established by the fact that as milk treated with acid turns into curd, so Godhead becomes a subservient when He Himself attains a distinct personality by the addition of a particular element of adulteration. THIS PERSONALITY HAS NO INDEPENDENT INITIATIVE. The said adulterating principle is constituted of a combination of the stupefying quality of the deluding energy, the quality of nonplenitude of the marginal potency and a slight degree of the ecstatic-cum-cognitive principle of the plenary spiritual potency. (still following?)

This specifically adulterated reflection of the principle of the subjective portion of the Divinity is SADAASHIVA, in the form of the effulgent masculine-symbol-god SHAMBHU from whom RUDRADEVA is manifested. In the work of mundane creation as the material cause, in the work of preservation by the destruction of sundry asuras and in the work of destruction to conduct the whole operation, GOVINDA manifests Himself as guna-avatara in the form of SHAMBHU who is the seperated portion of GOVINDA imbued with the principle of His subjective plenary portion. The personality of the destructive principle in the form of time has been identified with that of SHAMBHU by scriptural evidences that have been adduced in the commentary. The purport of the Bhagavata-shlokas, viz., VAISNAVAANAAM YATHAA SHAMBHU, etc., is that SHAMBHU, in pursuance of the will of GOVINDA, works in union with his consort DURGADEVI by his own time energy. He teaches pious duties (dharma) as stepping-stones to the attainment of spiritual service in the various tantra-shaastras, etc., suitable for jivas in different grades of the conditional existence. In obedience to the will of GOVINDA, SHAMBHU maintains and fosters the religion of pure devotion by preaching the cult of illusionism (Mayavada) and the speculative aagama-shaastras. The fifty attributes of individual souls are manifest in a far vaster measure in SHAMBHU and five additional attributes not attainable by jivas are also partly found in him. So SHAMBHU cannot be called a jiva. He is the lord of jiva but yet partakes of the nature of a seperated portion of GOVINDA.

 

Translation and Purports by:

His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Thakura.

 

By the way, I am not SHAMBHU, I am only Shambu!

(stupid I left the 'h' out!)

[Guest guest]

Again your quotes are all from Vaishnav backgrounds!

 

I too am a Vaishnav. I too believe Hari to be Supreme. But during a debate with a friend, he opened my eyes to the fact that just because I worship Govinda, it is wrong to belittle Shiva. There is a lot about Him that we do not know, that which can only be learnt from the Saivite faith. When we ourselves are not followers of Shiva, who are we to talk about His position?? Im sure that if a Saivite devotee came to this forum with his own scriptural references trying to prove that Shiva is above Krishna, many of us would not be pleased. Then why do we meddle with that whom we do not know about?

 

All i am saying is that one should worship ones own deity without belittleing anyone elses.

[Guest guest]

quote:

----------------

Sri Brahma-samhita,

TEXT 16

 

"The function of SHAMBHU in relation to jivas is that this universe enshrining the mundane egotistic principle has originated from SHAMBHU."

 

Translation and Purports by:

His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Thakura.

--------------

 

It is strange that devotees in ISKCON think this translation and purports were done by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Thakura. The translation was really done by Professor Nishikanta Sanyal, a disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Thakura.

[shambu]

It is not so strange that devotees in ISKCON think so, since it is written on the book. Under his picture it says plainly:

 

His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Thakur

(1874-1937)

Founder of the Gaudiya Math and author of this Brahma-samhita translation and commentary.

 

So we were cheated again?

Too bad!

 

By the way: do Gaudiya Math versions of the same book mention the name of Dr. Sanyal?

[Guest guest]

are you a follower of iskcon???

[shambu]

Good Question! Just Give Me Some Time To Think This Over! Call Back Later! Bye Bye!

 

Of course we were not cheated! We were never cheated! I only meant this in a rhetorical sense since Guest is suggesting this with his remark. You don't get my cynisism. Unfortunately.

[Guest guest]

your friend is right, Lord shiva should not be offended for he is the highest vaisnava. In the end of the Srimad Bhagavatam(amala Purana=spotless purana) it gives the position of lord siva as the highest vaisnava.

 

In the Shiva Purana Lord Siva says that worship of visnu is the highest.

 

Sure your friend may worship him but the proper way to worship him is as a devotee of Lord Krsna who can take you to krsna.

 

Hare Krsna