krsna Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 May 5, 2004: North Shore, Hawaii Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja [srila Prabhupada's senior disciples, Nrihari dasa and his good wife Bhavatarini dasi are very expert at singing devotional songs in Western melodies, in the English language and accompanied by guitars; and their songs enchant large audiences. They visited Srila Narayana Maharaja at his residence in Oahu, Hawaii in early May. On Srila Maharaja's request they sang several beautiful songs for in English, including the last verse of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Sri Siksastakam. After the singing of Sri Siksastakam was completed Srila Maharaja commented on it, and they were so kind as to share with us the following transcription of his conversation with them:] [srila Narayana Maharaja:] "Make Me Happy, Make Me Sad." What is the meaning of this song? This is the view of Srimati Radhika. This is Her mood. "Make me happy, make me sad; break my heart, make me glad – I love you Krsna." aslisya va .-ratam pinastu mam adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah ["Let Krsna tightly embrace this maidservant who has fallen at His lotus feet, or let Him trample Me or break My heart by never being visible to Me. He is a debauchee, after all, and can do whatever He likes, but He is still no one other than the worshipable Lord of My heart." (Sri Siksastakam, verse ] This is the eighth sloka of Sri Siksastakam. You have translated the essence as, "Make me happy, make me sad . . ." So why have you then prayed to Srila Prabhupada at the end of the song, "Let me serve you, Prabhupada, eternally”? You sang, “I didn't know that Krsna was God until I met you, Srila Prabhupada. Let me serve you, Prabhupada, eternally," and then you added the refrain, "Make me happy, make me sad…" It seems that there is some improper mixing there. Who is praying? Are you praying? Or is Srimati Radhika praying? [bhavatarini dasi:] At the end I am praying to Prabhupada. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] What is your prayer? [bhavatarini dasi:] "Prabhupada, whether you make me happy or sad, I love you." [srila Narayana Maharaja:] No. This is wrong. The words or sentiments "I love you" for Gurudeva is not good. We may pray, "I want to serve you" – not "I love you." The prayer should not be like that. Perhaps you will have to correct it. This cannot be sung in the assembly of knowledgeable devotees. Make it for Krsna – as told by Srimati Radhika. Then, in the last line you can pray, "Prabhupada, when I will realize this reality – the mood of Srimati Radhika, which is more than mahabhava and which is known as madanakya-bhava. When I will realize all this? Please be merciful to me." You can pray in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopidust Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Who cares for technical advice from Gaudiya Matha Acaryas when they don't care to serve Srila Prabhupada by joining in with ISKCON 100%? I would rather hear Bhavatarini's "wrong" words to a song sung with love for Prabhupada then be told not to listen to it by a guru with no such sentiment, right or wrong. Her love for Prabhupada brings tears to the eyes. Ok on my second reading I concede that technically he is right, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I think everyone should care lest we beginners fall into some rasabhasa trap. That is one thing I try to appreciate in Gaudiya Vaisnavism, this high level scrutiny. I am afraid of it. Therefore it has help prevent me from trying to enter into dimensions that are beyond my station. For the record I am neither with Narayana Maharaja or ISKCON so I am not swayed by some false sentiment for either camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 What Srila Narayana Maharaja is pointing out has nothing to do with "technical advice", rather he is explaining the relationship of a Gaudiya vaishnava to Srimati Radharani and showing how to appreciate Her mood, not imitate it in relation to gurudeva and/or Krsna. Devotees desire to "realize" that special mood only to better enable devotional service. Of course genuine love must be there for gurudeva, but one has to recognize WHO guru actually is and also their own role in relation to Radha and Krsna, as distinctly different individuals. Since the Divine Couple are both God in Their own right, the concept of divinity cannot enter into it. Envy of Krsna is well understood, however similar feelings towards Radhika are often not. The thought that anywhere near Her devotion in quality or quantity is personally acheivable should never enter our minds. Regardless of feeling oneness in sentiment, subservient worship on our part must always remain. Expressing the mood of Lord Caitanya towards one's guru, or anyone else for that matter, is obviously not appropriate. Not in the company of knowledgeable devotees at least, for they could not avoid being disturbed though unable to object due to courtesy. Having assumed the role of guru, Narayana Maharaja was obliged to correct this most important yet very common misunderstanding. I've no doubt Srila Prabhupada would have done exactly the same. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] "Make Me Happy, Make Me Sad." What is the meaning of this song? This is the view of Srimati Radhika. This is Her mood. "Make me happy, make me sad; break my heart, make me glad – I love you Krsna." aslisya va .-ratam pinastu mam adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah ["Let Krsna tightly embrace this maidservant who has fallen at His lotus feet, or let Him trample Me or break My heart by never being visible to Me. He is a debauchee, after all, and can do whatever He likes, but He is still no one other than the worshipable Lord of My heart." (Sri Siksastakam, verse ] This is the eighth sloka of Sri Siksastakam. You have translated the essence as, "Make me happy, make me sad . . ." So why have you then prayed to Srila Prabhupada at the end of the song, "Let me serve you, Prabhupada, eternally”? You sang, “I didn't know that Krsna was God until I met you, Srila Prabhupada. Let me serve you, Prabhupada, eternally," and then you added the refrain, "Make me happy, make me sad…" It seems that there is some improper mixing there. Who is praying? Are you praying? Or is Srimati Radhika praying? [bhavatarini dasi:] At the end I am praying to Prabhupada. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] What is your prayer? [bhavatarini dasi:] "Prabhupada, whether you make me happy or sad, I love you." [srila Narayana Maharaja:] No. This is wrong. The words or sentiments "I love you" for Gurudeva is not good. We may pray, "I want to serve you" – not "I love you." The prayer should not be like that. Perhaps you will have to correct it. This cannot be sung in the assembly of knowledgeable devotees. Make it for Krsna – as told by Srimati Radhika. Then, in the last line you can pray, "Prabhupada, when I will REALIZE this reality – the mood of Srimati Radhika, which is more than mahabhava and which is known as madanakya- bhava. When I will realize all this? Please be merciful to me." You can pray in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Needs pray this - "O Srila Prabhupada, I am give up all me small, dirty realisation. Now I am fall in You feet, and I am cry - pls beat me for all me ofences and give me only small drop mood Lord Caitanya. Pls, pls only small drop this mood give me real understanding spiritual life. I am so proud, I am so fool. No has any true understanding Lord Caitanya, I am play role big man so long time. I am most great offender your lotous feet Srila Prabhupada in many many things." If Prabhupada take His mercy then - 1 He destroy this speculations completly 2 Then Prabhupada theach this person real mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 It is me post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 kailasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopidust Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Once the early bramacaris teased mother jadurani saying women are less advanced. Srila Prabhupada heard this from mother Govinda dasi and said, they do not know it but she is the most advanced out of all of them. Certainly Mother Bhavatarini has the mood of a Mother, but her mood is more advanced than I can dare to comment on. It is no offense on the part of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother to correct her, but we the grandisciples of Prabhupada must be careful to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 pray [re: Guest] 07/22/04 08:16 AM Edit Reply Needs pray this - "O Srila Prabhupada, I am give up all me small, dirty realisation. Now I am fall in You feet, and I am cry - pls beat me for all me ofences and give me only small drop mood Lord Caitanya. Pls, pls only small drop this mood give me real understanding spiritual life. I am so proud, I am so fool. No has any true understanding Lord Caitanya, I am play role big man so long time. I am most great offender your lotous feet Srila Prabhupada in many many things." If Prabhupada take His mercy then - 1 He destroy this speculations completly 2 Then Prabhupada theach this person real mood. Gee Kailasa, maybe I should pray to YOU! Seems you are somehow aware of all our prayers and that your realizations are obviously perfect while mine are mere speculations. Perhaps you should ask Prabhupada to "pls beat me for all me ofences" since I am apparently remiss in that department. Also, do share more of this "real mood" with us won't you, but maybe log in first so it doesn't take three posts to sign your name, or are you still speculating on how to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Srila Prabhupada - "So the beginning is guru-susrunaya (?), we have explained, by service to the spiritual master with love, bhaktya, not officially. Officially doing something and internally doing something, then that will not be successful. Actually with brain and with love and affection, service." "So this is called susrunaya. Prahlada Maharaja says, guru-susrunaya bhaktya. And with devotion, with love and faith, not officially, “Because I have kept a pet spiritual master, so officially I have to...” No. With faith and devotion. " "Therefore brahmacari means living under direction of guru, guror hitam. And guror hitam... How he can be simply thinking of benefiting the spiritual master? Unless that position comes, nobody can serve guru. It is not an artificial thing. The brahmacari, the disciple, must have genuine love for guru. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 ***Perhaps you should ask Prabhupada to "pls beat me for all me ofences" Not I am, some other. It is for envious raskal and citter (?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 If they write songs for Prabhupada, then needs give Prabhupada or devotees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Q - Prabhupada, when I will realize this reality – the mood of Srimati Radhika A - When you will be follow Me. -------------------- Prabhupada - "Sriman Narayana in future will be take power ISKCON. Be careful". All people who leve ISKCOn for this organisation - is complete fools. It is me humble opinion based on facts. I am read they's books - it is concoction, they not has any pfilosopfi. All "rasa" too with so big material ambitions. Person needs be pure, another he is pollute this name -"Radhika". Because so many people speculate on name "Radha", then acarya do not write this holy name for example for others raskals. It is soo sad. Sincere devotees Prabhupada in influence materialists. They song nice pray whom? I am forget own name for anger. Any words from this person - speculation - aparadha - speculation. Self glorification. It is nice words - "Prabhupada make me sad, make me happy". Yes it is Radha song. It is Radha's song and song devotees Radha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopidust Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 The 'guest' who cannot speak English are you a follower of Gour Govinda Swami who left ISKCON to follow Narayana Maharaja? I"ve heard that he never even said to do that? Where did so many of you get that idea all at the same time?GGs tried to get devotees who left ISKCON for the GGM to return back to ISKCON. It's one thing if you join the GGM first before hearing about ISKCON,but it's another thing altogether if you leave ISKCON in the name of following your guru maharaja when he said not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 ***Gee Kailasa, maybe I should pray to YOU! Not for me, it is useless. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 "I was selected as a member of the GBC body in 1986. At first I was not willing. I was not willing at all to become a member of that body. In that year there was a 50 man committee, there was some restructuring of the GBC body. So, some old members resigned and some new ones were recruited. So, somebody gave some names. So my name was given as one of them, although I was unwilling. So out of those names, the GBC body accepted some names and also rejected some. So I was thinking I may be rejected, so that would be good fortune for me. But it was bad fortune, I was selected. Very bad fortune for me, yes. What to do? All right, so, since that year I have been attending GBC meetings. It has now been 9 years, 86-85. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 the post before is was told by SGGS... SGGS also said, if they (iskcon) preach apasidhant you can leave!!!!!!!! now any one can see! There is no discusion about the trascendental relationships of SGGS-BVNM-SP there are no rules, no institutions, just trascendental love. In 1996 gbc meeting , they had to expulse SGGS from Iskcon... then SGGS said to Harikes "im going to leave this world in two days, but in two days you are going to leave bhakti forever" Srila Narayana Goswami Ki Jay!!!! Srila Gour Govinda Swami Ki Jay!!!!! Srila Prabhupada Ki Jay!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 The true mood of our line descending from Srimate Radharani Herself through the Rupanuga currant is, "I don't have a single drop of love for you my Lord otherwise i would have left my body in your absence" For one who is actually experiencing Krishna Prem feels they are totally bereft of it, and the same translates to Guru. But in this mood of extreme negativity the Super-positive comes to embrace His humble servitor, consoling with sweet assurance that you are truly my devotee. But not all lines are propagating vipralamba over union, and here lies the subtle fundamental difference of some present day sampradayas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Lord Caitanya wery clear show all. Gour Govinda made many things for ISKCON. may be He is take liberation. May be He is take perfection in sambhoga, but He is not has perfect position in all. Has relations it is simple, but cooperate it is not so simple. Condemn ( sapa ) it is more simple, but really help others is so dificult. Visnupad was is right in past in side Govinda Svami. It is right. Narayna Svami speak wrong things, but they glorifi his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 ***But not all lines are propagating vipralamba over union All acaryas speak this - Rupa Gosvami ( Hamsadutta ), Bhaktivinoda ( jaiva dharma ), Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya own example. Open eyes (?), wake up, senior devotee. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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