Not a question for your guru

[gopidust]

In the Lilamrta Prabhupada was asked by an early disciple whether he was a kanistha adhikari or what kind of devotee he was. He replied,'that is not a question one should ask his guru'. That is a humble answer for an uttama-adhikari. But for a kanistha adhikari it could be a bluff.

Why is it such a crime for a kanistha guru, whether in the former GM or ISKCON, to just come out and say they are kanistha adhikaris when they are? Why are they still maintaining these false facades trying to fool their disciples who ultimately realise this and go away looking for an uttama-adhikari elsewhere.

The problem arises for example when the guru does something not even approved of by his godbrothers and then when the guru's disciples ask questions in class about these things the godbrothers chastise the disciples for the guru then after class laugh among themselves about the very same thing they chastised the disciple for asking about. I could be more specific but don't want to be offensive.

Being an uttama-adhikari Srila Prabhupada also had to tell his early disciples things to help their spiritual lives such as to stay away from certain godbrothers of his because if they say anything different the devotees would become confused. And the proof is that the very first disciple who left Prabhupada for ++++ Maharaja ultimately became disillusioned with both of them and left both ISKCON and the GM altogether. I am not blaming ++++ Maharaja but if he had sent the disciple back to Prabhupada right away this might not have happened.

Yes there have been gurus so advanced they can take someone else's disciple and teach them more than their original guru could. But if someone is so less advanced than the original guru and try to do the same thing well I don't know what the reaction will be.

Everyone seems to be following one piece of advice of Srila Prabhupada anyway, don't answer the question of what kind of guru you are, whether kanistha, madhyama or uttama. But did even Prabhupada mean this as an instruction for all gurus and all time or was it specific to himself according to time place and circumstances? Does anyone have an idea?

[Kulapavana]

it would seem to me that if a person wanted to ask such a question ("whether he was a kanistha adhikari or what kind of devotee he was") he should inquire BEFORE accepting this person as his or her guru. asking your guru such a question is certainly inappropriate, as disciple should see his guru as saksad-hari (as good as Krishna).

 

even if a person acting as guru gives answer to such a question (lets say: "I'm a kanishta bhakta"), such answer may be very humble and reflect his inner perspective.

 

If someone wonders what level of advancement this person (guru or prospective guru) has, the answer is in OBSERVATION of his activities and comparing it to standards from the shastra (like Nectar of Devotion).

 

Anyway, that is just my take on this issue.

[gopidust]

The problem is since Srila Prabhupada in later years remained more aloof than in the beginning in regards to associating so intimately with his disciples his newer successors continue to follow in his footsteps. If a new devotee wants to know about a guru, first of all we are not allowed to ask if the guru chants his rounds because that is an offense! We just have to accept that he does because our prospective godbrothers say he does. Why can't we actually see for ourselves our prospective guru chant even one round in public?

If we ask to then we are told our guru in not proselytising for new disciples and we can forget the whole thing. We cannot see our guru because all of the Senior devotees of Srila Prabhupada need to be able to call each other at a moment's notice to discuss vital preaching plans and so on.

And that is why our guru need not go to class like the rest of the devotees. He is so important he cannot be bothered with going to the temple but needs to stay in his disciples houses with their surrendered wives who love nothing better than serving the gurus and advanced devotees while the poor devotees at the temple receive no association at all.

And in the Gaudiya Matha I heard the gurus don't always want to be bothered either or else they may have to give up thinking about krishna to be bothered by the problems of their disciples. So they just shake their heads from side to side as Indians do.

As new devotees we should have the right to question our prospective guru just like Srila Prabhupada did with Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. At least externally since Prabhupada said he only asked one question of his guru,"How may i serve you?"

[Guest guest]

And in the Gaudiya Matha I heard the gurus don't always want to be bothered either or else they may have to give up thinking about krishna to be bothered by the problems of their disciples. So they just shake their heads from side to side as Indians do.

 

 

from where you get your informations? be careful to not blasphemy devotees

[Kulapavana]

if the information you are providing here is correct, these must be some extreme cases. My experiences (however limited in nature) are quite different with respect to initiating gurus, but yes, there are some problems there, or at least there may be problems. if you have any doubts about your prospective guru, you should wait untill they are cleared up before you take initiation. This is a serious business.

 

Srila Prabhupada never advocated accepting guru blindly. Quite contrary - he always insisted that his qualifications must be verified. Once guru is accepted, than your most appropriate question is: "How may i serve you?"

 

I'm sure you will find an advanced and approachable guru who inspires you to serve Krishna. Trust your heart and pray to Krishna for guidance. Haribol!