Who is the "real" Pure Devotee of the World?

[Guest guest]

After hearing about the falldowns of various gurus in Iskcon, I wonder if there is any "real" pure devotees, not just pure devotees who say they are.

 

I guess I am just not sincere in my searching because every guru who I meet seems to be bogus.

 

I have read Prabhupada's books and he says to find a real pure devotee, to take initiation from.

 

Why in kali yuga do we have to take initiation, why not just follow the words of those who we can be sure are the real pure types?

 

Thankyou very much for your help, a struggling soul in the world.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

ever heard this saying?

 

You never met a pure devotee. Then you must not trust the potency of Krishna. Who can make Pure devotees. I've never met Bill Gates doesn't mean he doesn't exsist. If you can see the similarity then good.

 

When I hear 'show me the pure devotees' If there are some. I feel the need to say well I know who is not a devotee. {take a look in the mirror}

 

We live in a dual world so there must be many. Take Krishna's hand and let Him guide you. Haribol!

[Guest guest]

I have read Prabhupada's books and he says to find a real pure devotee, to take initiation from.

-so there's not the possibility to avoid to follow (pancaja knows a pure devotee.. ask to him!)

 

Why in kali yuga do we have to take initiation, why not just follow the words of those who we can be sure are the real pure types?

-the words of the pure devotees wants us to take initiation from a pure bhakta.. books are not enough, we need someone who teach us personally to apply the written instructions in our life. The demonstration is that you read "surrender to a pure devotee and take initiation " in prabhupada books and you are dubious

 

pray sri krsna

 

 

 

 

[gopidust]

It says in the Nectar of Instruction that one must be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master because one cannot advance very well under the insufficient guidance of a kanistha.

The devotees who stay in ISKCON longest are forced to become more and more pure. We cannot remain stagnent we either have to go up or fall down.

Look toward the Senior Prabhupada gurus or if you are in the Matha other Senior devotees but except for rare circumstances one must take a spiritual master who is personally present. How else are you going to get initiated and receive personal guidance and instruction? IT JUST ISN'T DONE THE WAY THE RITVIK PEOPLE ARE IMAGINING. Prabhupada used the ritvik system to train his new disciples how to become gurus before he left the planet not to break the disciplic succession and ignore guru sadhu and sastra.

Certainly at least you can find SOMEONE more advanced than you are can't you?

[Kulapavana]

you do need to rely on faith to some extent. do not be preoccupied with finding the "absolute flawless pure" devotee to take shelter of. it is easy for a flawed mind to find flaws everywhere. trust your heart. if you are sincere, Krishna will guide you to the right guru. There are many good devotees out there (in several different camps) who are qualified to be gurus.

[theist]

 

The devotees who stay in ISKCON longest are forced to become more and more pure.

 

 

Maybe you would elaborate on this a bit. First read below.

[Guest guest]

And I want to thank all for their kind help, I think to ask the questions of the "rank and file" devotees may be safer than asking to the "guru's" of Iskcon. Since they could be very motivated to become my guru. (I am wealthy, but ignorant)

[gopidust]

One time a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada how do we know who is a pure devotee. Srila Prabhupada said, look around when you are 80 years old. Whoever is still around, they are the pure devotees. So whether they were already pure devotees back then or whether they were to become fully pure devotees in the future at least we can see that the longer one remains a devotee the more pure he/she becomes.

And like Kulapavana was sort of saying, don't look at the body of a pure devotee. Materially speaking the body has faults but what has that got to do with an advanced devotee?

[gopidust]

Anyway don't tell anybody you are rich and join ISKCON!

[Kulapavana]

"Anyway don't tell anybody you are rich and join ISKCON!"

 

funny but true /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

And I want to thank all for their kind help, I think to ask the questions of the "rank and file" devotees may be safer than asking to the "guru's" of Iskcon. Since they could be very motivated to become my guru. (I am wealthy, but ignorant)

---

 

you may be right or wrong... but do not take gurus that you consider motivated

 

if you are wrong you go to hell because you are blaspheming

 

if you are right you go to hell because you're following a cheater

[Guest guest]

How can anyone know if the guru is not motivated materially if he only blows through the temple and then blows out so fast. And with all of the "pomp and circumstance" they are very elevated to the point where I am afraid to speak to them. Then when the are away I hear this guru has this problem and that guru has that problem etc.

 

I think the advise is to not get initiated anymore since the people who are "into" ritvik are called bogus, and the people who are not are backing these gurus who have a track record that is very troubling.

[gopidust]

What the hell are we supposed to do? The gbc should make new rules that a guru stays somewhere for a while and gets to know his disciples before initiating them, not just blows through like you said. Isn't that the Vedic way?

Why is it such a sin to have the guru actually converse with prospective candidate disciples when we have to surrender our entire lives to them? It seems to be imitating Srila Prabhupada to this very day. I don't mean to be offensive but am I wrong?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Hare Krishna

 

I think the advise is to not get initiated anymore since the people who are "into" ritvik are called bogus, and the people who are not are backing these gurus who have a track record that is very troubling.

 

 

 

So go get a monkey for a Guru, have some faith. Pray to Lord Nityananda. Its not easy. His not just going to come knock on your door and give you Harinama Diksa.

 

jai SRI NITAI!!!

[Kulapavana]

"..gets to know his disciples before initiating them, not just blows through like you said. Isn't that the Vedic way?"

 

certainly this is the Vedic way. the disciple must know his guru, and his guru must know his disciple. sometimes it is difficult to expect that a great acharya like Srila Prabhupada (who had very limited time and many things to accomplish) would spend much time with all of his many disciples, yet he knew them all. but that is not to be imitated.

 

[Kulapavana]

"And with all of the "pomp and circumstance" they are very elevated to the point where I am afraid to speak to them"

 

you should not be afraid to ask your guru to dispell your doubts. if he cant do that - maybe you should find one that will. but be carefull not to accuse anyone of anything unless you have some proof. that is called slander, and is even against the material law. inquire respectfully and submissively - that is also the Vedic way. Vedic ways apply to both gurus and disciples.

[gopidust]

I was just caught up in my own emotions. If we actually try to approach a guru he probably will let us ask questions and talk with him and if not.....? See ya! But it probably will be his selfish disciples' faults that we could not see him.

[Kulapavana]

yes, sometimes the fanatical or overzealous disciples will try to isolate non-disciples from their guru or discourage them from posing serious questions dealing with their doubts. that was happening even with Srila Prabhupada. it is our great loss that some difficult issues were never reported to him and swept under the carpet so to speak.