What is the destination of Mayavadi Impersonalists?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Hare Krishna

 

What is the destination of Mayavadi Impersonalists.

 

And after they achieve this, they fall down again.

Thats plain to see. So is there desire to go back inherent?

 

Like Krishna devotees want to back to Godhead. Thats plain to see.

 

 

So my questions is. Both have fell-down. So a Mayavadi would say but you have also fell-down. So what is behind this? Is it only desire? to be God...wait did I answer my own question.

 

But when we were envious of Krishna we fell-down. Is Mavayadi desire higher' they actually WANT to be God. So is this down to levels of enviousness only? Ok I have asked many questions. I need some straight answers Now.

[theist]

Just admit your tiny helpless non-independent little jiva. That is the message I get from the heart.

 

Yes mayavadis want to be God and we want to be God. It is the same fallen condition just that different desires have brought us to different paths.

 

We are equally filled with false notions of reality. Both want to be God in one form or another.

 

Presently we rarely run into a liberated mayavadi or Bhakta. It is mostly intellectual. Not a sound footing for either discipline.

 

But even the mixed devotee appears superior to me even under the illusioned status to various degrees. He may even have to force himself to bow down and beg for an improper thing, but he does.

 

But especially in the purified state the soul's natural humility takes a purified form for Krsna's pleasure. Isn't Yashoda's chasing Krsna with a stick and then chastening Him a sign of genuine humility? It is only eclipsed by Krsna's willingness to allow Himself to be caught.

 

Corrections accepted.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

But the word eclipse doesn't quite capture what I meant. More like the of light of a burning flame outshown by the sunlight, in that it is not as recognized by us very readily.

[Guest guest]

Depending on what we learn from our Guru we all think or for that matter everyone think that they are right and others are wrong. But the Supreme Shri Hari is the one who decides about the reincarnation of the soul whether someone chants Hare Krishna or Ohm Nama Shivaya or Oh Lord Jesus or Oh Allah.

This final destination depends on how many times an individual chants, but depends on how far that soul has really matured to the level of leaving all the desires and dislikes of material life and fixes his/her mind on Lord irrespective of whatever form he or she prays to That Supreme Parabrahman.

I know many of us chant Hare Krishna, but how many of us have really reached to that level of real renunciation and we are commenting about what will happen to a Mayavadi impersonalist. Whether he is mayavadi or vaishnava or christian, everyone is going to face the same as long as one does not fix the mind and keep bothering or commenting and discussing the likes and dislikes based on our ego and knowledge.

Ideal thought would be not to worry about what will happen to others, but to worry about what will happen to us when we keep on lingering to our own indifferences in societies and practice.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

I understand your points. But you cannot know my reasons for asking. Last time I looked this was a Forum. Seems whenever I ask a question I am judged becasue I have Dasa on the end of my name. This is not negation Consiosuness. Its Krishna Consiousness. I will ask questions when I choose and please. I heard this is what happens with devotees, questions are brushed under the carpet 'just chant prabhu'. Anybody home? I have a mind. Chanting will be more effective when you know WHY. YOU CHANT!

[Guest guest]

Haribol, pankaja das. Just chant. And ask, too.

 

Devotional service is certainly kirtanam (chanting), but it is also many other things as well, and hearing is the first.

 

Hearing is a direct result from inquiry, and the vaisnava is ordered to inquire submissively from other vaisnavas. This is the process, we hear, we chant, we remember krsna, we offer everything in krsnas service, so many things.

 

So just chant, and do not ever allow anyone to tell you to shut up and not submissively inquire from vaisnavas.

 

Hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

ps mayavadis may burn in hell forever, but they dont feel a thing because one must have identity to feel the pain of hell. What happens to one who denies personal identity is a spiritual suicide, wherein the person actually ceases to exist, never was, never will be, erased, cleared, deleted. This is the desire of the mayavada, and krsna allows this.

 

But worldly eternity is limited, real eternity is not. In another Lord Brahmas life, the person will exist again, hopefully to make better decisions less selfish that the silly desire to be free from existance.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

 

Depending on what we learn from our Guru we all think or for that matter everyone think that they are right and others are wrong. But the Supreme Shri Hari is the one who decides about the reincarnation of the soul whether someone chants Hare Krishna or Ohm Nama Shivaya or Oh Lord Jesus or Oh Allah.

 

 

I would say the Lord reveals Himself something similar. Krsna says as one surrenders unto Me I reward accordingly.

He Himself is impartial as to allow the soul freedom of choice.

 

Some may for a time choose to surrender to Him, in the form of maya. We are still surrendered albeit in a poor way. Then when not satisfied with that we desire to grow. Some say this can continue to include Gopi or manjari-bhava and even then it still every expands sweeter and sweeter.

 

But we stop and remain attracted at a spot of our choosing.

 

That brought the question about rasa to Bhaktivinode in the Jaiva Dharma.

 

Q. Is our rasa preordained?

A. Yes and no.

 

LOL We will have to go there I guess.

 

 

I know many of us chant Hare Krishna, but how many of us have really reached to that level of real renunciation and we are commenting about what will happen to a Mayavadi impersonalist. Whether he is mayavadi or vaishnava or christian, everyone is going to face the same as long as one does not fix the mind and keep bothering or commenting and discussing the likes and dislikes based on our ego and knowledge.

 

 

Yes it is important to echo and expand the message of the previous acarya. This is not easy to do without changing the message and method in some subtle ways. An expert disciple and teacher can. I suspect not for most of us.

 

But yet to act as servants of His Diving Grace we have to fulfill his desire. He came with the mission to challenge and defeat impersonalism and voidism that is presently ruining the West and in turn the rest of the globe.

 

That means to be able to defeat the impersonal outlook on life. Impersonalism is an infection but the one who is identifying themselves with that philosophy is in every sense our brother. Just as is Adolph Hitler, Vinobe Bhava, the serial raper, killer and animal abuser down to the gopa-indra germ. The unity we share with the so encased souls I mentioned is in eternity forge, absolutely unbreakable and indivisible. Only through forgetfullness of this can we apparently loose connection. Just like it is all lost we forget Krsna, it is all realized when we realize Krsna.

 

Our reaching out to others will be most effective from a platform like that.

 

 

Ideal thought would be not to worry about what will happen to others, but to worry about what will happen to us when we keep on lingering to our own indifferences in societies and practice.

 

 

It's good to be concerned with others and work to help them. Others have been, and are, concerned with us. But when we are motivated by the modes of strong passion with ignorance the results can be rather seemly, and they don't lead to real understanding.

 

The military has a large number of support staff for every front line soldier so there is ample room for everyone to find a place.

 

Just telling someone there are an evil mayavadi is exactly like some fanatical Christians who take pleasure in calling everyone devils.

 

While our big philosophers try to challenge the mayavadi's and the material scientist we can find other areas to work loudly on. But they must be challenged and for our own protection if no other we need to really challenge ourselves.

[Guest guest]

don't you ever go to your guru with any of your questions and concerns?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

don't you ever go to your guru with any of your questions and concerns?

 

 

 

Well you I am proven right. See this:

 

Guru-------------disciple------knowledge.

 

Understand /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

Ps. Thiest are you doing an English cource. Having trouble understanding. Too 'high' for me.

[theist]

I get going so quickly I forget to concentrate sometimes.

 

No course from me. That's for sure. Anyway just take any or as much as you like and leave the rest.

 

Anyway, what are you doing up now? I am on the West coast and it is after one. But then I am an unregulated guy with no brahmaarya studies to concentrate on. But I will close after this post.

 

That was an interesting exchange above. I hope you are not neglecting to firm up that connection. Initiation means beginning. It also comes with responsible( precise, well thought-out, relevant to your spiritual life) questions put to your guru.

 

If one or two of those becomes postable that would be nice.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

http://www.asitis.com/12/3-4.html

 

But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, fixed and immovable--the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth--by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me

 

PURPORT

 

Those who do not directly worship the Supreme Godhead, Krsna, but who attempt to achieve the same goal by an indirect process, <font color="red">also ultimately achieve the supreme goal, Sri Krsna</font color>, as is stated, "After many births the man of wisdom seeks refuge in Me, knowing Vasudeva is all." When a person comes to full knowledge after many births, he surrenders unto Lord Krsna. If one approaches the Godhead by the method mentioned in this verse, he has to control the senses, render service to everyone and engage in the welfare of all beings. It is inferred that one has to approach Lord Krsna, otherwise there is no perfect realization. Often there is much penance involved before one fully surrenders unto Him

 

http://www.asitis.com/12/5.html

 

For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied

 

PURPORT

 

The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord are called jnana-yogis, and persons who are in full Krsna consciousness, engaged in devotional service to the Lord, are called bhakti-yogis. Now, here the difference between jnana-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jnana-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the <font color="red">same goal</font color>, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul

 

-----

So it appears that after many births impersonalists will become directly attracted to and achieve Hari

-----

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/7/10/en1

 

All different varieties of atmaramas [those who take pleasure in atma, or spirit self], especially those established on the path of self-realization, though freed from all kinds of material bondage, desire to render unalloyed devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead. This means that the Lord possesses transcendental qualities and therefore can attract everyone, including liberated souls

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/3/15/43/en1

 

When the breeze carrying the aroma of tulasi leaves from the toes of the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead entered the nostrils of those sages, they experienced a change both in body and in mind, even though they were attached to the impersonal Brahman understanding

 

PURPORT

 

In other words, the impersonalist who feels transcendental pleasure in striving to become one with the Lord is defeated when he sees the beautiful transcendental features of the Lord.

 

[Guest guest]

http://www.asitis.com/5/6.html

 

The Mayavadi sannyasis sometimes fall down from the path of self-realization and again enter into material activities of a philanthropic and altruistic nature, which are nothing but material engagements. Therefore, the conclusion is that those who are engaged in Krsna consciousness are better situated than the sannyasis engaged in simple Brahman speculation, <font color="red">although they too come to Krsna consciousness, after many births</font color>

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Hare Krishna

 

Ok I don't understand,

 

 

1#Path of Voidness

2#Path of Mayavadi

3#Path of Impersonal concept of God.

Destination..

 

 

1. Voidness is between the Brahmajyoti and this Material Universe.

2. Brahmajyoti

3. Heaven {no realization of personal features of Godhead} In this the realization that God is indeed with Form must come immediately after attainment of heaven.

 

Ok not exactly conclusive. It would take a genious to present all the paths.

 

So see above posts by guest!

 

ALL paths lead to God. Ultimate aim is Krishna. {personal feature}.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Hare Krishna.

 

Ok I talked with a Mayavadi on-line {by chance} Boy what were the chances of that happening? lol

 

He said he wants to merge with pure water. I said can you swim {ok i didn't i just thought that up now}. But I we went on {he was playing mind games} I am pretty good at spotting ppls who do that. So eventually after He declared to me I he was Krishna. I said what did I do yesterday. He said you were thinking about shoes. Now at this point a normal person would be YES! I was. I am not normal. I said i wore sandels {its hot here ok}. So he said he is 8 years old in God years. I said I was 2. {must be something in the water} Karana! Who fell 1st me or him? That was the next question. Starting to parrot one. Finally cornered him. Hopefully he will read Gita. {not sure}. That analogy of water and bowl by Madhavacharya is timeless. Volume changes, but not merge. Use it! Not me. I am goona chant!

[theist]

If someone really wants to be in a fantasy of mayavada dreaming it is very hard to wake them from it. Krsna is fulfilling their wish to dream like that.

 

Most are more easily aroused but they will never admit it in a conversation.

 

Prasad and chanting may be the best approach. If we could only offer the pure forms. That is where much work can be fruitful. Purifying our offerings to the Lord and sharing those without any sense of descrimination.

 

Presently our false egos are blocking the attractive nature of our own natural Krsna consciousness. As that becomes more and more cleared up and that force is released others will become naturally more and more attractive.

 

We must be trying to help others even as we move through this awkward stage. But don't become to deflated when those efforts don't reap the returns as quick enough or large enough as we think.

 

Two traits in particular have been missing in my path to date and which I really need, patience and perserverence. This is never more apparent then when I try to convince others of something.

 

If one won't listen that's his business. there is someone out there that will. We must find those souls. Forums, chat rooms, street corners, parks etc.