Vipralambha unique cultivated mood?

[kailasa]

- Whether there can be who that in ISKCON the individual leader?

- Srivasa Thakur as the head of all devotees Gaura lila

- Whether it is necessary siddha pranali?

- "You kill me, You break my heart"

- A difference in sermon Bhaktivinoda Thakurа, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Bhaktivedanta Svami

- Whether can be vipralambha unique cultivated mood?

- Real spiritual authority ISKCON to whom it belongs?

 

----------------------------

 

 

TO COOPERATE it it is much more difficult, than to meditate on groves Vrndavan. It is the fact. It is one more reason why Prabhupada has told - " all will be shown in cooperation ". Because THIS most difficult. Because in IT all also is shown.

 

THEREFORE ISKCON it is unique. Because ANYBODY here cannot be the individual leader, crushing all others. As Prabhupada has established ISKCON, therefore at top ISKCON there can be only the one who will go in the steps Prabhupada and in His mood. Ramananda Ray and Svarupa Damodar are very close to Lord Caitanya. But Srivasa Thakurа Lord Caitanya in general has put near to itself. Because Srivasa Thakur understands Lord Caitanya even more and it is close to Him.

 

Svarupa Damodar and Ramananda Ray assist Lord Caitanya. But Srivasa Pandit is in mood Lord Caitanya directly. They are very closely connected. It is one of the reasons why Srivasa Thakur does not go in Jaganatha Puri for Lord Caitanya, and it is sent Kamarahatta. He simply divides this mood with Lord Caitanya in Kamarahatta. In the same mood Lord Caitanya and in the same bhajan. He does not go, but somewhat He is the closest to Lord Caitanya. Therefore Srivasa Pandit the head of all devotees Lord Caitanya and consequently in He is present in Pancatattva.

 

Therefore Shrila Prabhupada in the certain sense reformed sampradaya. All knowledge is important, but in the certain context Shrila Prabhupada writes or speaks - " This sastra is not necessary also this sastra not necessary. Do not read that, do not read it ".

 

Because this mood Lord Caitanya comprises all.

 

It is eternal bhajana Lord Caitanya and the supreme point of devoted service.

 

Direct relations are shown spontaneously from this mood. Vipralambha it is the essence soul, therefore direct relations (siddha deha) are shown natural thus. That occurs further. After devotees receives this or that first- hand experience (siddha deha), he again comes back back to bhajana. It natural. And it as, the form of spiritual greed. (true laulyam)

 

To not try to simulate direct relations (" siddha pranali ") it natural as. Because we do not have sufficient qualification. But those who have qualification, they nevertheless cultivate relations in the specific form - in vipralambha.

 

Also it is a part of this mood vipralambha - "absence" of direct relations.

 

It is the certain category of internal energy and the certain category of dependence on the God.

 

It is not ignorance, no. It is the certain type of dependence on the Lord or the certain type of the control of INTERNAL ENERGY or the certain mood. "Not having" the relations, devotee nevertheless it is spiritual happy.

 

 

Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur.

 

Actually this sermon of beginnings Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur. Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur the first who has rejected the sermon babaji in the certain degree was. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur supported these or those installations sastra, such for example as siddha-deha. But Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur did not teach this. In it there was one of problems of His pupils, after His leaving. Because they have lost understanding in this or that degree. Babaji preached him - " you should follow on way Gosvami ".

 

Babaji specified to them sastra where it is written about siddha-deha (and till now specify). Therefore the part GM has not stood and has moved on this sermon (siddha - pranali). Even now some from GM preach this philosophy "babaji" under a kind " pure Gaudiya ". Narayana Svami is mix GM and babaji. They do not follow in this sense for SBST. And a sign on all such people that is usual they advertise itself as the best followers.

 

Concerning vipralambha writes BR Sridhara Svami - " if the person thinks that he falls, it usually a sign on his promotion. " [in a true context] this steady position - bhajana or mood of separation. "

 

It is the good comment and most likely by virtue of this understanding as, БР Sridhara Svami had the certain recognition. Nevertheless comments GM on this theme always have the following specificity - separation is meant that anticipates a meeting. Bajana really conducts on a level of direct relations (siddha deha) natural in the image. BUT Shrila Prabhupada makes comments on this mood -

 

He speaks that vipralambha it and there is a ultimate goal.

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda began the sermon, Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur has continued and Bhaktivedanta Svami has finished finally.

 

Both Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Bhaktivedanta Svami all of them were in the same mood. vipralambha Bhaktivinoda Thakurа it "Saranagati" for example, but "Saranagati" this beginning of a spiritual life IN THIS case. "Saranagati" - a repentance, in correct sense, bhajana.

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakur learned so - vipralambha - direct relations ( including siddha deha ).

 

Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur preached too most. Only He not did references on siddha deha from which materialists have adjusted business (siddha -pranali). He as would write " Prakrita rasa " what very precisely to specify them.

 

Shrila Prabhupada preached already all in a final kind. If we shall look from this point of view we shall see ascending gradation in the sermon acaryas. Though it is the same subject. This standard - aspiration to sambhoga Krishna lila, to direct relations (siddha deha), is the true standard. There is only one problem - those who will follow in the steps Shrila Prabhupada "do not reach" direct relations in the certain sense. Sastra Shrila Prabhupadas also it is written thus, she conducts on the certain level.

 

Shrila Prabhupada is so strong, that writes - " I preach worldwide - we below than Rupa Gosvami ". /images/graemlins/smile.gif) It is the answer to everyone who preaches - "I am follower Pupa Gosvami"

 

The perfect combination of direct fidelity (not in greatness) and mood of separation this is rupanuga. The mood Lord Caitanya is real is one separation. Nevertheless He has allocated Rupa Gosvami as The one who in the ideal image combines these both moods. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Really a position Lord Caitanya are higher than position Rupa Gosvami. Nevertheless Lord Caitanya has specified on Rupa Gosvami because in certain sense Rupa Gosvami represents both moods in the ideal image. In other sense Svarupa Damodar the head of all Gosvamis because Svarupa Damodar it is even more spiritually close Lord Caitanya. But Srivasa Thakur position it is direct mood Lord Caitanya.

 

Shrila Prabhupada's position in correct sense is higher, than position Rupa Gosvami. But He writes - " I preach worldwide, I am lower than Rupa Gosvami ". /images/graemlins/smile.gif) He for "rupanugas" such probably has written It. Really it simply a part of spiritual mood as.

 

Therefore everyone who follow Shrila Prabhupada test certain spiritual "difficulties". Cleanly my opinion will be, that Prabhupada simply stops the person from all premature attempts at least. And the second - He what that in the spiritual image holds us what to lift on the highest level of understanding. He holds us and He very strongly holds. It is impossible to win. Im-pos-si-ble. And then there comes understanding, later, that occurs.

 

We want a spiritual life, we even have this or that experience, but then, later - all "stops". There is no movement. Stop. And any forces do not help. Shrila Prabhupada's Supreme position is those. The Supreme mood Lord Caitanya is those.

 

When we reach some peak in this spiritual process we start to understand vaguely for the first time that the word "sincerity" in general means. Then the person achieves the following peak of devoted service - not looking on full and obvious disqualification (and sincere devotee "is disqualified" always), the person not looking on any circumstances (spontaneous fidelity?!) decides to serve all the same.

 

This mood does devotee, probably, firm as a stone and then, this stone starts fuse. From this improbable pressure, from catalepsy, start to proceed the following external attributes of a spiritual life, without any your desire. But then, in due course, devotee starts to understand the nature of this great samadhi accordingly.

 

Shrila Prabhupada has written the comments, as there is the most valuable and the most raised in all spiritual life as well as in general in all other world. It seems to me that now it is possible quite precisely and to understand definitely that Shrila Prabhupada's books mean! And what for Shrila Prabhupada has done so long way what to write them.

 

Therefore in the beginning the person should develop belief knowledge. As we can receive this or that first-hand experience or blessings. And then, when the person becomes strong enough, the mood pure devotee starts to dominate.

 

As we have no experience the person thinks - " I fall, the God has left me. " It somewhat so, in spiritual sense. Then, later, when we develop spiritual taste, the person herself remains in THIS mood (vipralambha). The person CAN meditation (siddha deha), but does not do it. It is the certain spiritual nature.

 

It occurs from direct sensation of STRENGTHENING of a spiritual life! -

Absence of meditation or any other artificial methods. It strengthens a spiritual life in this mood. Does not weaken! Nevertheless, what to facilitate understanding of an event, it is possible to tell and so about such mood are the certain spiritual sufferings. It is difficult to get used to sufferings. But this certain spiritual mood.

 

In sambhoga the person supports itself, develop positive mentality. But in vipralambha so to operate it is impossible. Devotee gradually understands that he is disqualified, nevertheless he continues to serve. It seems to me that it is one of the external obvious moments. As it is described by Shrila Prabhupada-

 

" What qualification I have got that I want to see back to home, back to Godhead? It is not so easy thing.... I should be happy even in the hell simply by thinking of Krsna. That is wanted. That is wanted. "

 

This very strong mood, it is very deep -

 

" I may not see Krsna for thousands and thousands of lives.... That does not matter. Still, I cannot give up Krsna consciousness.... How I can see Krsna? It is not possible. ” In this way.

 

“ Without giving me audience, You kill me, You break my heart; still, You are my Lord, You are my worshipable Lord, nobody else. ” This is love.

 

It is last verse Siksastaka and this mood of all gaudiya bhajana. It is the supreme and final point of all spiritual life. Therefore Shrila Prabhupada and our spiritual teacher, teach us to this. If we have positive experience to him it is necessary also negative, for absoluteness of a spiritual life. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Therefore receiving such experience at first we think that a spiritual life there has come the end. How many it occurs, one day? No so can occur and five- ten years while we shall not understand. And then we can estimate in the positive image all. These double riches. These boundless riches are real. As it has described Srila Rupa Gosvami - " When I meet Krishna, there is only I and Krishna. But when Krishna is not present, all world is filled with Him. " It is so nice, it is so poetry, it is so high and is so pure.

 

For this reason gopis so roads Krishna. Matrimonial relations somewhat are more advanced in a marriage. Roads Gopi, because they completely devoted to Krishna.

 

“ Without giving me audience, You kill me, You break my heart; still, You are my Lord, You are my worshipable Lord, nobody else. ”

 

Prabhupada - "This is love. "

 

It is full fidelity, it is a final point of fidelity, THIS supreme mood. Such mood as has taste, it is the supreme taste. THEREFORE Krishna has accepted this mood.

 

If we understand the God - these great riches, but if we "do not understand" the Lord ( in vipralambha ) it is even more.

 

Therefore devotee aspires to the God. But in this case (vipralambha), he operates is specific. Somewhat, in this mood, devotee does not accept all other methods. Simply from force of the feelings, he does not accept the everything else. If all is broken. If the person experiences full wreck what there can be a meditation for example?

 

74 O foremost of the Yadu clan, it is impossible for Srimati Radharani to live if You remain forgetful of Vrindavan. She is thinking that if death does not favor her soon then how will she be able to pass the days seeing the picturesque landscape which was formerly the abode of joy for her but is now simply a source of endless torture in Your absence.

 

78 Kubja now freely enjoys the pleasure of carefree residence in Your heart so who can be more fortunate than she? My simple friend Radha has somehow become bereft of her pious activities because she is no longer able to enter into that abode for even a moment.

 

79 O destroyer of the Mura demon! When Srimati faints at the whistling sound of the bamboo's in the wind remembering the sound of Your flute the elderly persons become puzzled and search for the cause of her malady. Some fear that she has been possessed by spirits, some apprehend that she was bitten by some cruel serpent not knowing that actually yes, she has been bitten by that snake Akrura. Others ascribe the cause to epilepsy, but no one actually knows.

 

80 O most beautiful one! Your form is like honey for the starving eyes of the world. You left for Mathura so long ago and Radha has become most anxious due to not getting any news about You. Lately, new waves of ominous fear are dancing constantly in the inner chambers of her mind.

 

Rupa Gosvami.

 

Therefore this supreme mood. It for mature devotees. For BEGINNING it is necessary siddha pranali, for their belief. Shrila Prabhupada and Bhaktisiddhanta Thakur by and large did not operate in sambhoga. They know who they is in Krisna lila, but they operated in the other mood. All devotees Gaura lila stay in this mood. IT IS gift Lord Caitanya, in last stage He is stay IN THIS mood. IT IS gaudiya.

 

" Real Caitanya Mahaprabhu sampradaya is that he should be feeling like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, separation. "

 

Only Bhaktivinoda Thakur preaching FOR babaji speak about siddha deha. As Bhaktivinoda Thakur BEGAN the sermon, therefore He and has explained all FOR BEGINNING. All knowledge is necessary, but necessary to understand a spiritual life. Spiritual life ASSUME UNDERSTANDING. Instead of a certain cult. It not a blind cult.

 

Devotees does not count itself worthy as (for siddha deha). When devotees does not count itself worthy it is a part madhurya rasa too. Ask itself what to you women like. You like women which are hung up stick to you? It is man's mentality, it not the female mentality - to stick to whom that.

 

Devotees "does not develop" siddha deha and consequently, that its mood (vipralambha) is very strong. Somewhat, devotee it is already satisfied in KC. And as he accepts protection of internal energy and he lives and operates on internal logic of it (vipralambha) moods! Vipralambha it really very steady and unshakable position. The only thing, that a full context (vipralambha) in our case will not be, that direct relations (sambhoga, siddha deha), are a ultimate goal (in difference of the comment about vipralambha GM for example).

 

It bhajana, this spiritual life. Therefore since some moment we REMAIN in this mood (vipralambha) meaningly. Since some moment, devotee does not force a spiritual life. That there is a function of spiritual reason. But it does not mean that he ceases to develop spiritually! No, simply having received a certain experience, he receives the following experience. Devotee forces nothing, nevertheless his spiritual life is very sated!

 

It is the certain specific SPIRITUAL moment.

 

Devotee can not accept that sastra and another. Because in the certain sense he does not require them and surpasses them. Therefore Prabhupada writes - " it is not necessary, I have given all. "

 

Shrila Prabhupada as seems to me at all wanted to discuss this moment including because there is nobody was to discuss at that time. But as He uttama adhikari, therefore He has enclosed all in books, in ISKCON and in pupils. As Shrila Prabhupada uttama, therefore it is formal at all not explaining anything, He has made all directly. Look as work uttama!

 

Thus we should understand sastra in a true context and to apply it accordingly. Actually this inconceivable business to explain what in general nobody knows including so-called GM. Inconceivable business to distribute movement alone without any support. But compare - to write sastra and to present true with several in thousand spiritual contexts! As far as it is immeasurably more difficult! Therefore these glorifications - " Prabhupada has made the tough job ... " They at all do not understand THAT He has made, as a subject of a spiritual life do not understand up to the end.

 

Bhajana can have different motive but as bhajana the person can recognize that is steady. The person can test spiritual "sufferings", but it is steady in this mood nevertheless. Bhajana it as a shelter. Separation it too the God.

 

Therefore this mood this Krishna Consciousness. In this sense the person can and NOT CHANGE this mood (to not receive any pranali). Especially any artificial pranali. Even having received pranali the person comes back back in vipralambha. If some has taste, then he is work this.

 

We can quite understand, that cultivating vipralambha or bajana, we become more mature. We become more mature and then we can receive a mature fruit of direct relations. BUT...

 

If we can not receive direct relations?

 

What is it?

 

It is eternal bajana.

 

It also is that Shrila Prabhupada preaches. This mood Lord Caitanya.

 

( Still couple of years, and I can prove it 165 in the ways. )

 

Therefore devotee can and not receive a fruit of direct relations. Though it not so all is strict, as both those (sambhoga) and others (vipralambha) relations are spiritual. Nevertheless IN PROCESS OF the DEVELOPMENT, devotee can deepen only ONE mood. Lord Caitanya is in one mood. In the beginning He shows many moods, but then only one mood later dominates.

 

Anyhow direct relations it is relations of spiritual happiness and absence of relations (vipralambha), it too spiritual happiness both that and another spiritually and favorably.

 

Thus, since Bhaktivinoda Thakurа us also have brought to understanding that is true Gaudiya siddhanta. Bhaktivinoda Thakur writes in Jaiva Dharma that the person should be equally located between Krishna lila and Gaura lila. Besides Shrila Prabhupada in the supreme sense preaches only one mood Gaura lila.

 

In the SOME sense it is not important, whether there is Shrila Prabhupada Shrivasa Thakur whether or not. It is simply possible to understand thus why Srivasa Pandit part Pancatattva. I by the way as that looked through old forums Visnupada, and so that Shrila Prabhupada is Narada Muni, one devotee already wrote for a long time. Such ideas already were, a difference that we could not understand POSITION Srivasa Panditа independently, Prabhupada has written all this in the His books.

 

Srivasa Thakur as began this sermon in Navadvipa not looking on all circumstances and consequently that Srivasa Thakur is the friend to Krishna as Shrila Prabhupada writes - "to friends He gives all ".

 

Therefore go in the steps Shrila Prabhupada who that can develop conformity qualification. But such person will never apply on anything in with this specificity. It is answer. Therefore Shrila Prabhupada only is dared - because He has established a society where the REAL spiritual authority will ALWAYS be in hands devotees, which it do not apply on anything. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Which are transcendental also which Lord Caitanya indefinitely will simply immerse all in this devoted service in mood. It is such big theme! Thus antheming will grow only, bringing only one fruit which is described in Siksastaka (and all other parts of a spiritual life too). If you have 100 roubles 50 roubles too are in 100 roubles.

 

It is possible to read many books. But the UNDERSTANDING comes from dialogue with pure devotee Lord Caitanya - Srivasa Thakura. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Therefore it is better to accept uttama guru, avoiding those who is occupied in self- glorification and to avoid kanistha adhikari, aspiring to material dividends.

 

Hare Krisna, all glories guru and Gauranga!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Privet! Ya govoryu na russkom horosho. ponimat?

 

hahaha. Not really.

[kailasa]

You this artikle ponimat or no?

[Guest guest]

Shrila Prabhupada's position in correct sense is higher, than position Rupa Gosvami.

 

This is wrong and offensive.

 

Srila Rupa Goswami is the most senior of all. Kailasa, you are concocting ideas. This is simply speculation, what you are saying. Nonsense, and offensive.

[Guest guest]

i agree.... the attempt is to take out prabhupada from the tradition

 

they are like ritviks

[Guest guest]

***Shrila Prabhupada's position in correct sense is higher, than position Rupa Gosvami.

 

This is wrong and offensive.

 

In correct sense no. You read artikle? Position Lord Caitanya less Rupa Gosvami? It is offensive. You write "Rupa Gosvami" but not understand His position. Some buisnes "we rupanugas", but matter His pfilosopi you understand, boy?

 

***Srila Rupa Goswami is the most senior of all.

 

Srila Prabhupada write - head all Gosvamis - Svarupa Damodara. I am has this citation. Lord Caitanya senyor of all. You agree?

 

***Kailasa, you are concocting ideas.

 

No.

 

***This is simply speculation, what you are saying.

 

You false "rupanugas".

 

***Nonsense, and offensive.

 

I am write artikle and ARGUMENTS. I am now too write ARGUMENTS. You able read? You has arguments? We stay in vaisnava site, not in market.

[Guest guest]

*** agree.... the attempt is to take out prabhupada from the tradition....they are like ritviks

 

This mans very big devotees. /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

not like you..you are much bigger

[Guest guest]

Write ofence it is very easy Prabhu, but needs some interest for spiritual life.

[Guest guest]

- The perfect combination of direct fidelity (not in greatness) and mood of separation this is rupanuga.

 

- The mood Lord Caitanya is real is one separation.

 

- Nevertheless He has allocated Rupa Gosvami as The one who in the ideal image combines these both moods.

 

- Really a position Lord Caitanya are higher than position Rupa Gosvami.

 

- Nevertheless Lord Caitanya has specified on Rupa Gosvami because in certain sense Rupa Gosvami represents both moods in the ideal image.

 

-In other sense ( in mood Lord Caitanya ) Svarupa Damodar the head of all Gosvamis because Svarupa Damodar it is even more spiritually close Lord Caitanya.

 

- But Srivasa Thakur position it is direct mood Lord Caitanya.

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada used to sing, Vande Rupa Sanatana Raghuyugau, Sri Jiva Gopalakau, when he sang the song of Srinivas Acharya in praise of the six Goswamis. The six Goswamis are empowered Spiritual Masters who are direct personal associates of Sri Chaitanya. Srila Prabhupada is their servant.

 

Would Srila Prabhupada be happy if he heard his followers are saying he is senior to Srila Rupa Goswami?

 

Srila Prabhupada warned us not to speculate but you are speculating with your own foolish ideas Kailasa.

 

Has any senior devotee ever told you that Srila Prabhupada is senior to Srila Rupa Goswami? I believe the GBC would condemn any senior ISKCON devotee who was preaching this type of offensive foolishness. Maybe Harikesa said this sort of nonsense. But he is in Maya, that is clear.

[Guest guest]

***Politics, and stupidity

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif) Yes, politiks destroyed. Some may be so stupidly, but this fact do his some active. May be they understand more spiritual matter this way?

***Srila Prabhupada used to sing, Vande Rupa Sanatana Raghuyugau, Sri Jiva Gopalakau, when he sang the song of Srinivas Acharya in praise of the six Goswamis.

 

Yes. We follow not only Rupa Gosvami. If you follow only Rupa Gosami but not follow Sanatana Gosvami and Jiva Gosvami, then it be pure materialism - sahajiya. Real rupanuga it is following all Gosvamis.

 

Lord Caitanya teach you - sicsa sampradaya - many gurus, not one guru. Some cheating - "only one guru" - it is wrong conception, it is not rupanuga.

 

***The six Goswamis are empowered Spiritual Masters who are direct personal associates of Sri Chaitanya.

 

Who is head Gosvamis? Raghunatha Gosvami teach from Svarupa Damodara. Then Raghunataha theach Rupa-Sanatana. Svarupa Damodara head Gosvamis, but above Lord Caitanya Himself. It is obvious. Lord Caitanya teach humble you - point on Rupa Gosvami. And Lord Caitanya in vipralambha soo anothers " perfect" not Himself. But real Lord Caitanya head all.

 

Rupa Gosvami teach two moods, it is some point devotional servise, but mood Lord Caitanya it is pure, supreme perfection. Lord Caitanya as pure devotee it is Srivasa Thakur. Yes? No?

 

In Pancatattva who stay - Rupa Gosavami? Svarupa Damodara? Why Srivasa Thakur stay in Pancatattva? You do not know most esoterik aspect Krisna's - Lord Caitanya. Then you do not know most esoteric aspect Narada Muni.

 

***Srila Prabhupada is their servant.

 

Who it Srila Prabhupada? If you do not know, what you write?

 

***Would Srila Prabhupada be happy if he heard his followers are saying he is senior to Srila Rupa Goswami?

 

Prabhupada write - "Srila Rupa Gosvami was write sastra for neophits". I am has this citation. Srila Prabhupada serve all, but all serve Prabhupada. I am write many things and I am not write stupidly - "Would Srila Prabhupada be happy if he heard his followers are saying he is senior to Srila Rupa Goswami? ". Srila Prabhupada write - "If you desire understand Me, read Me books." What needs understand Prabhupada? /images/graemlins/smile.gif)) may be best understand Rupa Gosvami? What Prabhupada speak - "I am give all". It is not fact? Simply some guru kanistha adhikari envy SBST and Prabhupada, then they do not able understand spiritual life.

 

***Srila Prabhupada warned us not to speculate but you are speculating with your own foolish ideas Kailasa.

 

It is not me ideas. Prabhupada write - " I am not see krisna, I am not possible see krisna. This way, it way Lord Caitanya, it mood Lord Caitanya." It foolis speculation? Or foolish speculation half-way "rupanuga"? false rupanuga from kanistha adhikari.

 

***Has any senior devotee ever told you that Srila Prabhupada is senior to Srila Rupa Goswami?

 

Who? Narayana Svami? /images/graemlins/smile.gif) I am do some respect Narayana Svami, but not follow his. What Rupa Gosvami write - "If I meet Krisna has only I and krisna, if am not see Krisna all world full Krisna." It most advanced mood. Srila Rupa Gosvami, Svarupa damodara, Srivasa Thakur and Lord Caitanya stay in THIS mood. All sastra about direct relations was write for beginers and neopfits, it is write Srila Prabhupada. You has some arguments? Your guru will be not accept this? You guru above Prabhupada?

 

***I believe the GBC would condemn any senior ISKCON devotee who was preaching this type of offensive foolishness.

 

I am write arguments not offensive foolishness. You has so many spiritual progress, "offensive foolishness." Offensive foolishness it not write any, only "offensive foolishness".

 

GBC and all Iskcon follow for Srila Prabhupada. And GBC not so offensive foolishness, then time will go. I am write many in article about Rupa Gosvami, you need read more carefully, and more spiritually. It is not good, read all as offensive foolishness. If you see eweryvhere offensive foolishness, then you stey in this condition. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

***Maybe Harikesa said this sort of nonsense.

 

May be Lord Brahma said ? Who Prabhupada? May be Lord Hanuman answer for you? Who Prabhupada, boy? May be Lord Siva said you? You may question about this from Gosvamis. You rupanuga? Oooo! It is nice. Question this from Rupa Gosvami. Rupa Gosvami knows who Prabhupada. All Vrindavan knows. Any people Vrindavan answer you, who Prabhupada - Yasoda, all gopis. May be you guru knows?

 

Ohhh, but you only master write offences - "Maybe Harikesa said this sort of nonsense. " It is your guru teach you? Hmm. Very great. "Politics, and stupidity" . I am use yours citation. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

***But he is in Maya, that is clear.

 

But Prabhupada speak - " he is best grandson SBST". You know? You accept Prabhupada as autority? Yes? No? Why Prabhupada speak this? Mistake? Ohh another mistake Srila Prabhupada. Oh-oh.

 

Do not make real offence and read books Srila Prabhupada. And teach himself speak more culture. Spiritual life not blind process, then no needs follow guru kanistha adhikari who do not follow SBST and Srila Prabhupada.

 

Pls write arguments. Your ofences do not help you. Hare Krisna.

[Guest guest]

This obsession with "higher vs. lower" is one of the most obvious signs of a mentality stuck in the lowest consciousness. Although disguised through false-ego as glorification of Srila Prabhupada, it is in fact searching for where the supposed disciple will receive the most personal benefit.

 

Our goal is to become "servant of all" by assuming the lowest possible position. Krsna consciousness is not somehow achieved by calculating relative relationships, particularly those of others no doubt far superior to ourselves. Relating with the Absolute requires an absolute attitude towards surrender in relation to everyone.

 

Speculations and mental manoeverings are simply a waste of time. When the mind starts fantasizing is the time to drown it out with the Holy Names, aloud or silently, whatever proves effective. We forget and are reminded over and over again of the necessity to chant continuously. Instead of trying to perfect ourselves through thinking/doing this, that or whatever we must trust solely and wholly in the Holy Names.

 

Chanting becomes it's own perfection, but of course everything takes time. Meanwhile, best shelter oneself by identifying with the lowest and let others dispute who is the highest. Worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna ONLY, in everyone always, acting as the humble servant of everybody. That will inevitably deliver the desired results, however most likely not exactly how one might assume...

 

God does indeed work in mysterious ways, not to be limited by our conceptual understanding, let alone speculative manipulating. His Divine Grace can be truly appreciated only through personal surrender. First and foremost this means allowing the Holy Names to invade our consciousness and defeat us. HARIBOL!

[Guest guest]

***This obsession with "higher vs. lower" is one of the most obvious signs of a mentality stuck in the lowest consciousness.

 

All equally only in impersonal brahman. Anyway, what needs follow for Rupa Gosvami - it is "mentality stuck in the lowest consciousness. "

 

***Although disguised through false-ego as glorification of Srila Prabhupada, it is in fact searching for where the supposed disciple will receive the most personal benefit.

 

Ooo you so nice understand motives other people. Prabhupada speak stay in ISKCON, in ISKCON you do not be able "receive the most personal benefit".

 

***Our goal is to become "servant of all" by assuming the lowest possible position.

 

It is simply emty words. You servant all? It is right? I am wait you answer.

 

***Krsna consciousness is not somehow achieved by calculating relative relationships, particularly those of others no doubt far superior to ourselves.

 

Santa rasa equally madhurya rasa? It is right? "Krsna consciousness is not somehow achieved by calculating relative relationships"

 

"particularly those of others no doubt far superior to ourselves. "

 

Why Lord Caitanya point superior? He is not vaisnava? "This obsession with "higher vs. lower" is one of the most obvious signs of a mentality stuck in the lowest consciousness. " ?

 

***Relating with the Absolute requires an absolute attitude towards surrender in relation to everyone.

 

I am not underdstand contecst this yours words/

 

***Speculations and mental manoeverings are simply a waste of time.

 

Yes I am bring article, may be you avoid speculayion.

 

***When the mind starts fantasizing is the time to drown it out with the Holy Names, aloud or silently, whatever proves effective. We forget and are reminded over and over again of the necessity to chant continuously. Instead of trying to perfect ourselves through thinking/doing this, that or whatever we must trust solely and wholly in the Holy Names.

 

If you do offence you may repeat 1 000 000 years with out any spiritual progress. Needs understand sastra it is holy name too.

 

***Meanwhile, best shelter oneself by identifying with the lowest and let others dispute who is the highest.

 

"Lowest" not do so many noyes. You write me -

 

"This obsession with "higher vs. lower" is one of the most obvious signs of a mentality stuck in the lowest consciousness. "

 

"Although disguised through false-ego as glorification of Srila Prabhupada, it is in fact searching for where the supposed disciple will receive the most personal benefit."

 

and so on.

 

***Worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna ONLY,

 

You do not know spiritual science so many. If you do not know greatness God this worsipping "Worship Sri Sri Radha-Krsna ONLY" - useless.

 

****in everyone always, acting as the humble servant of everybody.

 

Bla-bla. You distribute Prabhupada books?

 

***let alone speculative manipulating.

 

let alone empty words.

 

***His Divine Grace can be truly appreciated only through personal surrender.

 

From reading books Srila Prabhupada. He is speak - "if you desire understand Me, read Me books." And distribute.

 

Hare Krisna.

[Guest guest]

Devotee 2: Devotees sometimes think, “This devotee is not really a vaisnava, he is only a neophyte, therefore if I think something bad of him it is all right.”

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Don’t hear such a thing.

 

Devotee 1: It is very difficult to not hear such talk...

 

Gour Govinda Swami: The jiva is vaisnava! jivera ‘svarupa’ haya krsnera ‘nitya-dasa’, the svarupa of the jiva is vaisnava. But we have no such vision. We cannot see, because we are such rascals, degraded fellows. We are blind. We have no proper vision. So how can we see the svarupa? We only see the outward, nasty things, the outer body. We have no vision to see. But every jiva is a servant of Krishna — jivera ‘svarupa’ haya krsnera ‘nitya-dasa’. That is what Mahaprabhu has said. But we cannot see it. A real sadhu, paramahamsa, pays respect to one and all. amani manada — Don’t demand respect for yourself, rather, pay respect to one and all. A sadhu doesn’t even disrespect an ant. He sees him as a jiva. You should know that before you offer respect to a sadhu, the sadhu has already paid respect to you in his mind. For practical dealings we have this consciousness of superior and inferior. But a sadhu offers respect to one and all. Seeing the jiva soul within, he doesn’t disrespect even an ant.

 

Please see krsna's thread on begging forgiveness for complete quote. Meanwhile, best you keep chanting while distributing all those books. You know, just in case...

[Guest guest]

***Gour Govinda Swami: The jiva is vaisnava!

 

I am not write "jiva is not vaisnava". This topiks about spiritual matter.

 

Hare Krisna.

[Guest guest]

- Whether there can be who that in ISKCON the individual leader?

- Srivasa Thakur as the head of all devotees Gaura lila

- Whether it is necessary siddha pranali?

- "You kill me, You break my heart"

- A difference in sermon Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and Bhaktivedanta Svami

- Whether can be vipralambha unique cultivated mood?

- Real spiritual authority ISKCON to whom it belongs?

 

You has reason? where "jiva not vaisnava"?

[Guest guest]

Lord Caitanya teach you - sicsa sampradaya - many gurus, not one guru

--the fact that with this statement you are actually preaching "no guru". Guru is uttama adhikari. if he's alone or in a council it is a secondary matter

 

Srila Prabhupada write - "If you desire understand Me, read Me books." What needs understand Prabhupada?

--to have initiation by a pure devotee, to chant hare krishna under his guidance, to read prabhupada's books and other shastras under his guidance. A conditionated soul cannot understand prabhupada's books without personal guidance by an acharya

 

But Prabhupada speak - " he is best grandson SBST". You know? You accept Prabhupada as autority?

--he's best grandson if he follows prabhupada. You and me too are "best" devotees if we follow properly

 

Prabhupada speak stay in ISKCON

--there's subtle and gross ways to understand this statements

 

Whether there can be who that in ISKCON the individual leader?

-yes iskcon needs a pure uttama adhikari individual leader. if they are two, three, four, fifty, six hundreds, uttama adhikaris spiritual leaders they reunite in a gbc council.., if they are not uttama, they can reunite even one billion times but the result will be problems.....(where's the difficulty?)

[Guest guest]

Avoiding speculation is one of the basic four regulative principles for good reasons. Continually trying to convince oneself by looking for affirmation from them is an obvious sign of weak faith. This applies to guru and shastra alike.

 

Inability to recognize Sri Guru and the essence of parampara misses the whole point of our sampradaya. We've been through these discussions, with the all the usual inherent aparadha, many times before, here and elsewhere.

 

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." In this case, why bother to keep trying? APARADHA is a highly infectious disease, best avoided completely, which of course is the real point of those quotes from HH Gour Govinda. Some get it -- some don't...some will -- some won't.

 

Mostly we remain "virtual" strangers to each other here. Shiksa guru must know the disciple intimately, in every aspect of their lives. Somehow the meaning behind important terminology has been twisted and confused, attempting to make it fit external realities. That just ain't the way it works, prabhus.

 

One on one we may be able to help each other untie the innumerable knots, person-to-person as friends and confidantes. However forums such as Audarya Fellowship are necessarilly limited, simply by the nature of the media, especially when conflicts develop into personal insults.

 

Sorry, but I must adieu from this thread. Best wishes, Kailasa prabhu and all who dare to interact with him on these topics. Might be better to discuss more personal reality, like what we did yesterday and our future plans, offering encouragement and sympathy as required.

 

For me at least, the "association of devotees" fundamentally must entail deeply caring souls as it's foundation. Anyway, to each his/her own. We all have a role to play in Lord Sri Caitanya's sankirtan movement, I'm sure.

 

One way or another, His Divine Grace ultimately encompasses everything and everyone, in the end somehow or other engaging all. That's the basis of MY faith anyway. Impersonal as that may sound, actually She is the most personal of all.

[Guest guest]

***Lord Caitanya teach you - sicsa sampradaya - many gurus, not one guru

--the fact that with this statement you are actually preaching "no guru". Guru is uttama adhikari. if he's alone or in a council it is a secondary matter

 

6 Gosvamis not uttama?

 

***A conditionated soul cannot understand prabhupada's books without personal guidance by an acharya

 

Yes.

 

***But Prabhupada speak - " he is best grandson SBST". You know? You accept Prabhupada as autority?

--he's best grandson if he follows prabhupada. You and me too are "best" devotees if we follow properly

 

Love not base on termins "work - not work", it is not love it is buisnes. Visnupad make many more then all GM and all modern ISKCON. He is save ISKCON 2 times.

 

***Prabhupada speak stay in ISKCON

--there's subtle and gross ways to understand this statements

 

Pfisikally stay in organisation names ISKCON. GM it is not ISKCON and SP speak - "do not come in GM never".

 

***Whether there can be who that in ISKCON the individual leader?

-yes iskcon needs a pure uttama adhikari individual leader.

 

ISKCON has pure uttama adhikari individual leader.

 

***if they are two, three, four, fifty, six hundreds, uttama adhikaris spiritual leaders they reunite in a gbc council.., if they are not uttama, they can reunite even one billion times but the result will be problems.....(where's the difficulty?)

 

Single acarya GM it is spiritual death. GBC it is desire SBST, and GM not has ANY pure uttama adhikari individual leader. SP desire GBC. It is speculation kanistha guru fro his maintaining buisnes guru - "if they are not uttama, they can reunite even one billion times but the result will be problems.....(where's the difficulty?) "

 

Txanks.

[Guest guest]

***Avoiding speculation is one of the basic four regulative principles for good reasons. Continually trying to convince oneself by looking for affirmation from them is an obvious sign of weak faith. This applies to guru and shastra alike.

 

This boys not able understanding mission Lord Caitanya.

 

***Inability to recognize Sri Guru and the essence of parampara misses the whole point of our sampradaya. We've been through these discussions, with the all the usual inherent aparadha, many times before, here and elsewhere.

 

Svarupa Damodara it is head all Gosvamis. Sri guru it is Bhaktivedanta Svami, another - it is canistha adhikari with many speculations.

 

***APARADHA is a highly infectious disease, best avoided completely,

 

Yes, we may see result APARADHA Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura Prabhupada.

 

***Somehow the meaning behind important terminology has been twisted and confused, attempting to make it fit external realities. That just ain't the way it works, prabhus.

 

Needs understand spiritual context sastras.

 

***However forums such as Audarya Fellowship are necessarilly limited, simply by the nature of the media, especially when conflicts develop into personal insults.

 

Then write on theme. Not needs write empty silly words. Read name theme and write on theme do not make personal ofences.

 

***Sorry, but I must adieu from this thread. Best wishes, Kailasa prabhu and all who dare to interact with him on these topics. Might be better to discuss more personal reality, like what we did yesterday and our future plans, offering encouragement and sympathy as required.

 

All do own choise. All take results own choise. Srila Prabhupada it is uttama, then He is write sastra for following and understanding. We do not glad stay in some sect, we needs following uttama pfilosopi.

 

Hare Krisna.

[Guest guest]

 

...Sri guru it is Bhaktivedanta Svami...

 

 

Sorry, prabhu, wrong again! Sri Guru is Lord Nityananda Prabhu...hence, "Sri Guru and Gauranga". Get it? Got it? Good!

[Guest guest]

6 Gosvamis not uttama?

-why are you asking it?

 

Love not base on termins "work - not work", it is not love it is buisnes

--who spoke of work-ot work?.. i spoke of following

 

Pfisikally stay in organisation names ISKCON

--i am the president of russia because i wrote "president of russia" on my door

 

GM it is not ISKCON

--iskcon is not a branch of chaitanya's tree?

 

SP speak - "do not come in GM never"

--you need to read some more biographies and conversations

 

ISKCON has pure uttama adhikari individual leader.

--i agree and i know him.. i payed obeisances to him the last saturday (of course i suppose he's not the only one)

 

Single acarya GM it is spiritual death

--if he's true acharya there's no death.. prabhupada was a single acharya for iskcon

 

GBC it is desire SBST

--of course.. but also pure devotees as gurus, not kanistas reunited in a kanista council

 

GM not has ANY pure uttama adhikari individual leader

--you are simply a fool... when there's generalizations the madness is automatic

 

everytime you speak you give bad reputation to iskcon saying that his leaders are kanistas but they're good because they simply are reunited in a council under the iskcon label. Sometimes ago you have said also that your guru was/is kanista/madyam

 

is it your mission to insult iskcon and your guru maharaja? what result do you expect to get with your messages? you are simply preaching that iskcon is a bunch of cheaters but it is allright because also other maths are cheaters... where's the advantage?

[Guest guest]

***Sorry, prabhu, wrong again! Sri Guru is Lord Nityananda Prabhu...hence, "Sri Guru and Gauranga". Get it? Got it? Good!

 

Srila Prabhupada ity is expansion Guru and Gauranga. He is expansion Lord Nityanada and Caitanya. Really He is expansion Lord Caitnaya, pure devotee Lord Caitanya.

 

If you desire name some "Sri Guru", then Srila Prabhupada first person who "Sri Guru".

[anadi]

 

... you give bad reputation to iskcon saying that his leaders are kanistas but they're good because they simply are reunited in a council under the iskcon label...

 

ISKCON has pure uttama adhikari individual leader.

--i agree and i know him.. i payed obeisances to him the last saturday (of course i suppose he's not the only one).

 

 

Can you give as an example ome of his lectures, please?

 

 

Sometimes ago you have said also that your guru was/is kanista/madyam

 

 

 

to know one's guru is kanishta or madyam is not an insult.

An uttama bhagavat guru is a quite rarely incidence.