Is Begging Forgiveness for Offenses unto Great Souls Enough?

[krsna]

Is Begging Forgiveness Enough?

 

Gour Govinda Swami

 

The fourth canto, second chapter of Srimad Bhagavatam describes how Daksha, the son of Lord Brahma, organized a great sacrificial ceremony, but in the process committed an offense to the topmost vaisnava Lord Siva. Sivaji did not take Daksha’s offense seriously and afterwards Daksha cried, begged forgiveness from Siva, and was forgiven. By the blessings of Lord Siva, Daksha was able to complete his sacrifice. However, in spite of achieving the forgiveness, Daksha had to suffer a reaction for his offense. Srimad Bhagavatam (4.30.48) describes:, yasyam mahad-avajnanad ajany ajana-yonijah — As a result of his offense to Lord Siva, Daksha had to take birth again, this time in a ksatriya family, a lower birth. In that next birth Daksha also committed an offense at the lotus feet of Sri Narada Muni. Jiva Goswami comments that this offense to Narada was an additional fruit of Daksha’s previous offense to Lord Siva. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada describes this in his purport to Bhagavatam 4.4.13:

 

He [Daksha] offended the lotus feet of Lord Siva because he thought that his body, being the father of the body of Sati, was superior to Lord Siva’s. Generally, less intelligent men misidentify in that way, and they act in the bodily concept of life. Thus they are subject to commit more and more offenses at the lotus feet of great souls.

 

So if Lord Siva forgave Daksha, how is it that Daksha still had to suffer these multiple reactions? Why didn’t Lord Siva’s forgiveness forestall all reactions to the offense?

 

Earlier in the same purport, Srila Prabhupada gives a hint:

 

A great soul may forgive offenses, but Krishna does not excuse offenses to the dust of that great soul’s feet...

 

In his Bhakti-sandarbha (265.57-8), Srila Jiva Goswami says:

 

sat-prabhrtisv aparadhe tu tat-santosanartham eva santata-nama-kirtanadikam samucitam ... uktas ca nama-kaumudyam — mahad-aparadhasya bhoga eva nivartakah tad-anugraho va

 

In order to be free from offenses unto great souls, one should please that same personality whom one originally offended through constantly engaging in the process of bhakti, beginning with the chanting of the holy names.... Nama-kaumudi confirms this as follows: “Offenses to great devotees may be relieved either by experiencing the calamities they bring or by attaining the favor (anugraha) of the offended devotee.”

 

If Daksha had achieved the favor of Lord Siva then there should have been no reaction whatsoever. But Bhagavatam 4.7.16 describes that he only achieved the forgiveness of Lord Siva (ksama), and not his favor (anugraha). Because he retained the concept of being the father-in-law of Lord Siva, he could not see Lord Siva in a superior position as an advanced vaisnava and achieve his favor by bowing down to touch his feet.

 

One mundane example may serve to illustrate this important distinction. Suppose you lend some money to someone else, then later they come to you, apologize, and say that they are unable to repay you. You may say, “OK, you are relieved of the debt.” But are you satisfied by such behavior? No. Satisfaction can only come through being repaid the debt as originally promised. Similarly, begging for and acquiring forgiveness for an offense is not the same as achieving the blessings and favor of the offended vaisnava. If one actually achieves the favor of the offended vaisnava then one will be protected from Krishna’s displeasure.

 

In contrast to the behavior of Daksha, when Durvasa Muni realized that he needed to achieve the favor of Maharaja Ambarish in order to become free of his offense, he bowed down and touched the feet of that great vaisnava, and immediately he was delivered. This he did even though he was a famous sadhu while Maharaja Ambarish was merely a king.

 

Another example is found in the pastime of Srila Gadadhar Pandit and Pundarik Vidyanidhi as described by Srila Vrindavan Das Thakur (Cb. madhya 7.44-113). Upon seeing the material opulence of Srila Pundarik Vidyanidhi, some doubts came to the mind of Gadadhar Pandit. Later when he realized the exalted position of Vidyanidhi Mahasay, Gadadhar felt great remorse and felt it necessary to take initiation from Pundarik in order to become free from what he considered to be his offense.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Sometimes I think you are reading my mind, always seem significant to what I am going through. Hare Krishna, keep up good work. I do not know much about your Gurudeva. Could you post something I'd like to read.

[krsna]

Devotee 2: Devotees sometimes think, “This devotee is not really a vaisnava, he is only a neophyte, therefore if I think something bad of him it is all right.”

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Don’t hear such a thing.

 

Devotee 1: It is very difficult to not hear such talk.

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Do you think it is easy to get Krishna? It is very difficult and it is very easy. You think, “I will do all nonsense and I will get Krishna.” What is this? Day-dreaming! It is not so easy!

 

Devotee 2: So anyone could be a vaisnava.

 

Gour Govinda Swami: The jiva is vaisnava! jivera ‘svarupa’ haya krsnera ‘nitya-dasa’, the svarupa of the jiva is vaisnava. But we have no such vision. We cannot see, because we are such rascals, degraded fellows. We are blind. We have no proper vision. So how can we see the svarupa? We only see the outward, nasty things, the outer body. We have no vision to see. But every jiva is a servant of Krishna — jivera ‘svarupa’ haya krsnera ‘nitya-dasa’. That is what Mahaprabhu has said. But we cannot see it. A real sadhu, paramahamsa, pays respect to one and all. amani manada — Don’t demand respect for yourself, rather, pay respect to one and all. A sadhu doesn’t even disrespect an ant. He sees him as a jiva. You should know that before you offer respect to a sadhu, the sadhu has already paid respect to you in his mind. For practical dealings we have this consciousness of superior and inferior. But a sadhu offers respect to one and all. Seeing the jiva soul within, he doesn’t disrespect even an ant.

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

That is wonderful. AGTSP!

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

That is wonderful. AGTSP!

 

 

Why would you say AGTSP [which I assume is easier for you to type than ALL GLORIES TO SRILA PRABHUPADA], when the quote you apparently admired is from HH Gour Govinda Swami? Since he is glorifying Lord Caitanya and "real" sadhus [paramahamsas], it seems more appropriate to give all glories to Him and them. This quick AGTSP! stamp at the end of some posts puzzles me. Perhaps you could explain the consciousness behind it in this particular case.

 

Gour Govinda Swami: "The jiva is vaisnava! jivera ‘svarupa’ haya krsnera ‘nitya-dasa’, the svarupa of the jiva is vaisnava. But we have no such vision. We cannot see, because we are such rascals, degraded fellows. We are blind. We have no proper vision. So how can we see the svarupa? We only see the outward, nasty things, the outer body. We have no vision to see. But every jiva is a servant of Krishna — jivera ‘svarupa’ haya krsnera ‘nitya-dasa’. That is what Mahaprabhu has said. But we cannot see it. A real sadhu, paramahamsa, pays respect to one and all. amani manada — Don’t demand respect for yourself, rather, pay respect to one and all. A sadhu doesn’t even disrespect an ant. He sees him as a jiva. You should know that before you offer respect to a sadhu, the sadhu has already paid respect to you in his mind. For practical dealings we have this consciousness of superior and inferior. But a sadhu offers respect to one and all. Seeing the jiva soul within, he doesn’t disrespect even an ant."

[Guest guest]

 

Is Begging Forgiveness for Offenses unto Great Souls Enough?

 

 

Nothing is ever "enough" -- love knows no limits. Devotion is not a calculated procedure, nor is self-protection/advancement a concern for genuine devotees. The "true sadhus" spoken of by HH Gour Govinda Swami are acting honestly in accordance with their actual vision. We worship them and pray for that same vision. Meanwhile, best to keep chanting continuously, or at least whenever Krsna so kindly reminds us, since all rememembrance comes from Him [bhagavad-gita]. Haribol, prabhu!

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Mmmm not sure why I said it. Could be because I see HH Gour Govinda Swami as disicple of Srila Prabhupada. So I was really prasing both at same time. Hare Krishna.

[krsna]

 

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Therefore, sadhu has two things, krpa and vañcana — mercy and cheating. If someone only wants external things, he is cheated. And if he wants inner things, he gets mercy, krpa. Therefore, I say, you deserve what you get. Krishna knows what you want and what you deserve. A suitable arrangement will be made for you. Although there are many thousands of Prabhupada disciples, how many have gotten real mercy? One says, “Don’t you know who I am? I am a Prabhupada disciple!” In actuality, he is suffering and suffering. Now he has become a karmi and is gliding down to hell.

 

Why is this? If you are not serious, you cannot receive mercy. You are such a rascal! He gave you mercy but you cannot receive it. You are so unfortunate! Sometimes I’m amazed! How is it that these Prabhupada disciples cannot understand this point? If you are serious, if you are hankering and crying in your heart, then mercy and help is always there. It is hanging like a rope in front of you — you just have to grab it. However, you are careless, not serious. So, although it is hanging right in front of you, still you cannot have it.

 

[krsna]

 

<font color="red"> Offering pranams to the Deities as he sits on the Vyasasanna in the Chicago temple, 1974 </font color>

 

" My dear Lord Krishna, You are so merciful upon this useless soul, but I do not know why You have brought me here. Now You can do whatever You like with me. But I guess You have some business here, otherwise why would You bring me to this terrible place? Most of the population here is covered by the material modes of passion and ignorance. Absorbed in material life, they think themselves very happy and satisfied, and therefore they have no taste for the transcendental message of Vasudeva. I do not know how they will be able to understand it. But I know Your causeless mercy can make everything possible, because You are the most expert mystic. Somehow or other, O Lord, You have brought me here to speak about You. Now it is up to You to make me a success or failure as You like."