Krsna tries his best to give something to his devotees in return:

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

 

 

from the book

 

 

Sri Guru and His Grace

by

His Divine Grace

Bhakti Raksak Srila Sridhar Dev-Goswami

 

{extract}

 

 

 

Once, Parvati-devi asked Lord Siva, "Of all kinds of worship, whose

worship is best?" Then, Lord Siva told her plainly, "The worship and

devotional service of Lord Narayana, Visnu, is the highest." Then

Parvati became a little mortified and disappointed, thinking, "But I am

serving Siva, so I hold a lower position." Then the next line came,

tasmat parataram devi tadiyanam samarcanam "But higher than the

worship of Narayana is worship of the devotees of Lord Narayana.

 

That is even greater than devotion to the Lord Himself." Then, Parvati

smiled, thinking, "Then I am serving the devotee of the Lord. Siva is a

devotee: vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh. So, I am doing the best thing."

This is also confirmed by Krsna, in the Adi Purana:

 

ye me bhakta-janah partha

ne me bhaktas ca te janah

mad bhaktanam ca ye bhaktas

te me bhaktatama matah

 

"Those who worship Me directly are not real devotees; real devotees

are those who are devoted to My devotees." And this principle is true

in our own experience. It is said, "If you love me, love my dog." How

intense one's love for his master must be if he can love the master's

dog. And he loves the dog only because it is his master's dog; not that

he wants to take away the dog for himself. He loves it not with the

idea of independent love for the dog, but because it is the master's

dog.

 

This is a higher test of our love than simply to love the master. This

will test whether we are really lovers. Krsna is more pleased if he sees

that his servant is being served. Why? Because His servant always

serves Him, but he won't take anything in return from Krsna. Krsna

tries to give his devotees something, but they won't take it. They have

no aspiration to fulfill, no petition to enter in the course of their

service. They want only cent per cent service.

 

There is no possibility

for Krsna to award any remuneration there, He can't find the slightest

hole in their devotional service through which some remuneration can

be pushed. His devotees are wholesale servants, and nothing but.

Krsna tries his best to give something to his devotees in return for

their service, but He fails. So, when Krsna sees that His desired aim of

rewarding his servants is being done by someone else, He becomes

indebted to that person thinking, "What I wanted to do for my servant,

he is doing. I wanted to do that, but failed: it was not accepted. But

now someone else is doing the same thing I wanted to do." Krsna is

more favorable to the devotee who serves his servant. Then Krsna

comes to serve him. That is the underlying purpose of His saying

 

"Those who are devotees of my devotee, they are the real devotees of

my heart." So, bhakta puja, worship of the devotees, is the best kind of

worship. This statement is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, in

the Vedas and by Vrndavana Das Thakura in the Caitanya Bhagavata,

amara bhakta-puja, ama haite bala. Bhakta-puja, worship of the

devotees, is advocated everywhere. At the same time, we should try to

understand who is a devotee. That is also to be ascertained. What is

the sign of a real devotee?

 

Krsna says, "Those who say they are directly devoted to me are not

devotees proper; those who are devotees of my devotees are my real

devotees." We should try to follow the principle of this saying. This is

not a perverted remark, but there is some genuine reality in it. If we

look for its inner meaning, we will reach the conclusion our guru

maharaja has announced. He said, "We are suddha sakta, worshipers

of the pure potency, not the mundane potency." We worship the

potency who is wholesale dedicated to the potent without retaining

Her individual independence as a separate entity at all, who is cent per

cent dependent on Krsna. Such a potency as this is very, very rarely to

be conceived.

 

The direct approach to Krsna is improper. One must approach him

through the proper channel, through the devotees. That is the real

approach. Therefore, Gaudiya Math eliminates Mirabhai and so many

other apparently great devotees from the category of real devotees,

because, although they are mad in praise of Krsna, they have little

regard for the real devotees of Krsna.

 

 

 

 

 

[vanamali]

Therefore, Gaudiya Math eliminates Mirabhai and so many

other apparently great devotees from the category of real devotees,

because, although they are mad in praise of Krsna, they have little

regard for the <font color="red"> for the real devotees of Krishna </font color> .

 

 

 

 

-----

 

Please Pankaja dasji, do not take this the wrong way, but when you "eliminate" devotees from being "actual devotees," I am not sure if that would be pleasant for Krishna. I mean, classifying a devotee as being not a devotee, does that constitute service?

 

Just think about it. Don't get angry please, but just think about it...

 

Not meaning to offend, but merely to defend who I consider as a great devotee... but anyway if you don't accept her that's okay. Few accepted her in her day as well. However, to insinuate that Krishna also did not accept her, is intolerable for me.

 

I think when Meera sang "Mere to Giridhara Gopala, dusaro na koi!" she served generations upon generations of devotees, because whenever we hear her words, we remember that Krishna is our only shelter in this world.

 

I feel she has served beyond what most of us will ever accomplish, with her divine gift of music, and therefore I worship her lotus feet.

 

And remember, by serving Krishna, we serve everyone. Especially the devotees. If Krishna sees you serving a devotee, He will be more pleased than if you served Him. Similarly, if you serve Krishna, the devotees will be more pleased than if you serve them. And thus the joy of both is tied together...

 

-----------

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I can offer no explanation. Previous to my extract the talk is about Parampara and how some devotees are included {more prominent figures} and why some are not. It doesn't mean to say they are disregarded but this is the nature of disicplic succession. I.e to cite my own example the Hunter which Narada muni initiated.

 

I cannot understand your feelings Maharaja says:

 

The direct approach to Krsna is improper. One must approach him

through the proper channel, through the devotees. That is the real

approach. Therefore, Gaudiya Math eliminates Mirabhai and so many

other apparently great devotees from the category of real devotees,

because, although they are mad in praise of Krsna, they have little

regard for the real devotees of Krsna.

--

 

Mirabhai didn't goto a Guru etc. So people may think to follow her example. Thats the only reason for this.

 

I hope you understand. Hare Krishna

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat.php?Board=hinduism&Number=4035

 

[vanamali]

It doesn't mean to say they are disregarded but this is the nature of disicplic succession.

 

-----------

 

Saying that she is not part of Gaudiya parampara, and that he would not like his devotees following her example, that is a different story altogether, and perfectly acceptable from my perspective.

 

It would be nice if the comment ("Gaudiya Math eliminates Mirabhai... from the category of <font color="red"> real devotees </font color> ") had included something like "as far as real devotees that express the Gaudiya ideal..." or "For those who consider themselves disciples in the Gaudiya tradition, this is not acceptable." Perspective does make a difference.

 

(Otherwise it kind of sounds like, "Oh such-and-such was not a real devotee, so you can say whatever you want about her. She loved God, but anyway you don't have to respect her because this verse in Adi Purana says you have to serve the devotees, and we think she did not serve the devotees.")

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

But do you know who BR Sridhara Maharaja is?

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

Well, Krishna says that the way to approach Him is througha spiritual master. Since Mira did not have a spiritual master (as far as I know), she may be viewed with suspicion. Not saying she was not bonafide but since she didn; follow the prescribed method, it will up for debate.

 

 

It doesn't mean to say they are disregarded but this is the nature of disicplic succession.

 

-----------

 

Saying that she is not part of Gaudiya parampara, and that he would not like his devotees following her example, that is a different story altogether, and perfectly acceptable from my perspective.

 

It would be nice if the comment ("Gaudiya Math eliminates Mirabhai... from the category of <font color="red"> real devotees </font color> ") had included something like "as far as real devotees that express the Gaudiya ideal..." or "For those who consider themselves disciples in the Gaudiya tradition, this is not acceptable." Perspective does make a difference.

 

(Otherwise it kind of sounds like, "Oh such-and-such was not a real devotee, so you can say whatever you want about her. She loved God, but anyway you don't have to respect her because this verse in Adi Purana says you have to serve the devotees, and we think she did not serve the devotees.")

[anandamahadeva~]

In the most very rare cases some dovotees did not require sri-guru and still abtained prema......this is not to say that we should follow her lead, but we must still respect the love and devotion she showed thru out her life to my lord krishna as example to follow in the art of bhakti-proper.

[Guest guest]

But how do we know if they really achieved prema? Externally, we can show any signs though we may not have attained that state. Look at some of the cheater gurus for example.

 

 

In the most very rare cases some dovotees did not require sri-guru and still abtained prema......this is not to say that we should follow her lead, but we must still respect the love and devotion she showed thru out her life to my lord krishna as example to follow in the art of bhakti-proper.