List of Iskcon Gurus

[stonehearted]

See if you can find the time to read the entire conversation. I heard it on tape in 1974, and my hair stood on end at feeling the love and sense of identity between the two brothers. You may also benefit from reading the trascript of a March 1977 conversation found here: http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/swami-vishnu-fs.html

 

Gopidust: As far as Tripurari Swami I will call him swami but I will never read his bhagavad-gita unless i hear he falls down then i won't call him swami anymore.

 

There's no necessity for you to read his Bhagavad-gita. I suggest that you make a thorough study of Bhagavad-gita As It Is and fully assimilate what Srila Prabhupada gives there. However, you should know that many of ISKCON's GBC members, gurus, and sannyasis have read Tripurari Maharaja's edition of Bhagavad-gita and expressed deep appreciation for it. Some have even used it in giving class. You may read a response I wrote to very shallow criticism of that book here: http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0311/ET01-8432.html

 

It's long, but if you want to know something about the book beyond the ISKCON gossip, it will help.

[Kulapavana]

IMHO the shallow and sectarian approach many ISKCON devotees take when it comes to other Vaishnava missions can be traced back to two things:

 

- the ingrained sectarianism derived from our judeo-christian upbringing and common culture

 

- S.P legitimate criticism for his Godbrothers (his disciples used it as a tool to control other devotees, always minimizing any expressions of S.Prabhupada's love for his Godbrothers, often visible only to devotees present at the time of such interactions)

[theist]

But on that is not unique to Iskcon. Examples are world wide of sectarianism and and unwillingness to acknowledge the truth held by others that they trace to a source different than our own.

 

But it is a mental condition, one that we all must individually see to it that we grow beyond.

 

Iskcon's guru issue and how they are chosen is one thing that is problematic but on the other hand I am reading these postings of Indrayumna Swamis and see only the work of a Prabhupada disciple acting as as a sannyasi preacher trying to spread the Holy Name. IOW's a vaisnava guru. Is he an uttama adhikari? How would I know? I can't help but believe his work is pleasing to Prabhupada. So until I learn differently I can only see he is a proper guru to his disciples irregardless of any flaws in the system that bestowed the title.

 

I don't really know any of them and choose to be cautious. But this brings the reason I avoid the ritvik groups. They are not at all cautious and seem to think it's open season on anyone indiscrimately.

 

Somewhere there must exist a nice balance between being bold and being careful.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I read this a long time ago by Pritta Mata and it almost convinced me to not go look for Guruji anywhere except in Iskcon:

 

http://www.geocities.com/priitaa/gaudiya_math.htm

 

Notice it doesn't include 'certain conversations'

 

Also I respect Priita Mata views but I don't agree with them. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-

SRIDHARA MAHARAJA AS SIKSA TO PRABHUPADA?

 

Often the following has been quoted to show that Srila Prabhupada approved and supported Sridhara Swami, even the acceptance of him as Prabhupada's siksa guru. Lets take a look at it:

 

"I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association." ~ SP to Hrsikesa January 9, 1969,

 

 

This is only a partial quote. It also does not reveal the specific situation at hand. We really don't know what was going on. So here it is.

 

 

Hrisikesa and Acutyananda had run off to Bon Maharaja's place to learn from him. They wanted to permanently camp there and be his (siksa) disciples. At this point they all ready had decided they were not going to follow Prabhupada's instructions (go to Germany). Instead they wanted to take a Siksa Guru from the Gaudiya Matha in India. *<font color="brown"> Prabhupada's letter was specific to this situation and not blanket approval. </font color> It was more along the lines of "damage control" for the soul of these two disciple. Bon Maharaja had even been rejected by Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja, so Prabhupada was trying to save them by drawing them away from him.

 

------

 

Should I laugh or cry? Now if the above doesn't make you see unlterior motive, then well..maybe its just me!

 

* /images/graemlins/laugh.gifROFL

 

[Kulapavana]

"..a Prabhupada disciple acting as as a sannyasi preacher trying to spread the Holy Name. IOW's a vaisnava guru. Is he an uttama adhikari? How would I know?"

 

does it really matter if he is uttama or madhyama? can we judge such things properly? should we even try to make such judgements?

 

if people want to learn bhakti from him we should only be happy for them. if he inspires us to perform devotional service he is our siksa guru as well. Hare Krishna!

 

 

 

[theist]

That was my point.

[Guest guest]

does it really matter if he is uttama or madhyama?

-it is not important until we want to surrender to him taking him as diksa or siksa guru

 

should we even try to make such judgements?

-we have simply to care for it praying intensely krsna to send to us vaishnavas and not cheaters

 

[mahak]

Haribol, gopidust, and audarya fellowship readers.

 

I always recommend that one be steadfast in their devotional service, therefore, when I read gopidust stating that ISKCON will never be abandoned, I congratualte, and hope that such perseverance will pay off.

 

That said, we must examine the reality of the situation. Srila Prabhupada certainly was aware of the stubbornness of his disciples, and he also, in many cases, recognized the potential for many to become independent of His society. As Sriman Babhru eloquently stated, some who had left were inticed to return to ISKCON. Babhru was directly invited to return By Srila Prabhupada, at the same time, I was also invited to return via his representative, the late Sudama Swami. And we did return. In fact, all those who left with us did return in one way or another, however, many were never accepted back into the foundation despite the full invitation of Srila Prabhupada. Many had to leave again even before Srila Prabhupada departed from this bio-world. Yet, we did not leave ISKCON, we left those who did not agree with Srila Prabhupadas proposal that we be accepted back. Srila Prabhupada, on more than one occasion, when he came to town, sent his representative to give us good cheer and encouragement, even though we could no longer work within his foundation. Sriman Brahmananda, on one occasion, came to such a place where many devotees and disciples of Srila Prabhupada, aloof from ISKCON, yet fully engaged in his missionary work, resided. He delivered Srila Prabhupadas well wishes, and though it was not necessarily an endorsement of our aloofness, it was acknowledgement that the reciprocal love of the guru-disciple relationship is intact.

 

So, thirty years later, this is what those who are sane look for, proof that the guru-disciple relationship is intact. If so, the disciple is as good as the spiritual master, because the mission is the exact same thing. I accept many devotee-disciples of Srila Prabhupada who have disciples of their own, in ISKCON or outside, heading their own schools. I do so on the strength of guru-shastra-sadhu. I examine their teachings, and Srila Prabhupada, who is always there for the disciple in the vyasasana of the heart, as He so promised, is there for consultation as to the validity of such disciple.

 

So, though you (gopidust) may still refuse to read, I present the following article by Sriman Tripurari Swami. The criteria I have always used to decide whether my peers are disciples or egomaniacs, is how they describe the glories of Srila Prabhupada. Babhru and myself were fortunate to hear a simple discussion by one of Srila Prabhupadas most intimate and earliest disciple, describing his relationship with Him only a few days after his disappearance. I always try to read Vyasapuja addresses by his disciples because Srila Prabhupada set the example by his powerful discourses on the occasion of the disappearance of His guru maharaja, notably the 1969 and 1973 classes.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa.

 

.....

 

'The soul of Srila Prabhupada'

An address, Santa Cruz, CA, 1996, by Swami B.V. Tripurari

 

"It is not enough to exclaim 'amar guru jagat guru', 'My guru is best!' Pointing this out in words says little to those who can see that such a guru's disciples have themselves not experienced the truth he represents."

 

If, as Srila Prabhupada said, his International Society for Krishna Consciousness was his body, I venture to assert that book publishing was his soul. This body/soul metaphor leads naturally to the conclusion that book publishing, the soul of Srila Prabhupada, is more important than his corporate institution. Spiritual though it may be, the institution is so only in as much as it conforms with and serves to facilitate the dissemination of the ideal embodied in the revealed scripture. To the extent that it ceases to do so, it becomes irrelevant. In the language of His Divine Grace, "Books are the basis."

 

Srila Prabhupda's actions speak louder than my words in this regard. When he formed his Krishna consciousness movement, he was careful to establish the corporate structure of the society and that of his book trust as separate entities. His reason for this was to protect the eternal teachings and insure their dissemination, should the body of his formal society become diseased.

 

As we know, the soul is independent of the body. Should the body die, the soul lives on, creating new bodies through which to express itself. In this metaphor, the new bodies appear as institutions to help those externally oriented approach the absolute. The value of the institution is realized in as much as it effectively draws its members to experience the inner ideal that the literature more closely resembles.

 

Since the time of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, the Srila Prabhupada of our Srila Prabhupada, book publishing has been further distinguished from temple worship in our sampradaya. Prabhupada's ISKCON is the spiritual child of the institution of another Prabhupada: the Gaudiya Math, formed by his gurudeva in pursuit of the vision of Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

 

Gaudiya Math had as its logo a symbol, in which one half was decorated with icons representing the devotional path of ritualistic bhakti (vaidhi marg), the other half icons representing spontaneous passionate love of God (raga marg). Our beloved Srila Prabhupada, following in his gurudeva's footsteps, painted that same logo on the front gate of his world headquarters in Sri Dhama Mayapur.

 

In Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati's logo, items necessary for temple worship represented the path of ritualistic bhakti, while the printing press among other things represented spontaneous devotion. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura further coined the phrase, 'brhat mridunga,' or 'great drum' with reference to the printing press. He reasoned that the small clay drum used in congregational chanting could be heard only a short distance, while the big drum of the printing press could be heard around the world. In his vision, we glimpse a dynamic and living conception of what it means to engage in kirtan, the best remedial measure for our present times.

 

Chanting Hare Krishna loudly is highly praised in all the revealed literature of sacred India, for it has a twofold effect of purifying the chanter as well as those who hear the chanting, and thus brings further transcendental merit to the chanter. We can hardly imagine the position then of one such as our Srila Prabhupada, who through his international campaign of book publishing in effect conducted the largest and longest kirtan in recorded history.

 

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura's insight with regard to the printing press and its relationship with spontaneous love was novel. In his classic Saranagati, Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes kirtan rasa or the aesthetic experience of chanting thus: 'while lifting the soul to the highest transcendental experience, it impels the devotee to dedicate his life to making this experience available to all souls', declaring in Bhaktisiddhanta's words, "totalitarian war against illusion and all other theistic conceptions " short of that which was taught by Sri Caitanya ?the path of spontaneous love of God.

 

This is not a sectarian outlook, rather the ensuant ecstasy of the experience of kirtan rasa, in which the holy name of Krishna is the object of love (visaya alambana vibhava) and Sri Caitanya the shelter of that love (asraya alambana vibhava). The udippina vibhava or stimulus of this experience is the sound of the drum, or in the dynamic sense the sound of the booting of the brhat mridunga, Macintosh or Windows. The anubhavas or ensuant ecstasies include ministering to the fallen souls. Auxiliary emotions (sancari bhavas) include humility, madness and a host of others. All of the involuntary transformations (sattvika bhavas) are manifest, and the dominant emotion(stayi bhava) is either servitude, friendship, parental or conjugal love.

 

It is not that other paths have no validity. Yet when with the yardstick of objectivity we go to measure the depths of penetration into transcendence that the various ego effacing traditions afford, none reaches further into that great unknown than the cult of Sri Caitanya. From deep within transcendence his missionaries return here to tell us more about its nature, and the possibilities that lie there beyond the mere cessation of material existence, and reverential love of God.

 

The teachings and example of Sri Caitanya afford us a glimpse and ultimately access to the intimate social life of God, to the embrace of the personification of Joy, Sri Krishna, who is God when he wants to be himself. As joy is at the heart of the life of the absolute, the person of Krishna represents the absolute in its ultimacy, enjoying intimately with those souls who's love knows no distinction between God's desires and their own. Such is the fruit of adherence to the Bhagavata Purana that Sri Caitanya held so dear, and that was the very life of Srila Prabhupada, that which he embodied.

 

Srila Prabhupada arrived in Boston Harbor in 1965 carrying with him several copies of his edition of the first canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. This was published in India in three volumes. In these three books he elaborately explained the devotional conclusion of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, fearing while doing so that he would not live long enough to complete the entire work of twelve cantos. As he envisioned it, this was a vast undertaking, each volume replete with original devanagari script, English transliteration, word for word definition, translation, and purport. At that time he was already late in age at 70 years and his health hardly robust.

 

He was correct in his suspicion as to the limits of his time on earth and the strong possibility that he would not complete the task. Yet he gave us much more than these three volumes of the Bhagavatam, and there is significance as well with regard to just where in the Bhagavata his relentless voice of urgency and love fell silent, his dictaphone immortalized.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave us not less than fifty volumes, ornamented with all of the previously mentioned embellishments. This is hard to fathom even for those of us who had a hand in assisting him. When the tradition attributes the writing of all of the Vedic literature to the legendary Vyasa, the academic community looks on in utter disbelief at what they see as the blind spot of the devoted. To pacify those who illogically insist that all, even soul and God must answer to ultimately to reason, we can further add that Vyasa was assisted in this enormous task by his disciples, Jaimini, Vaismpayana, etc. He spoke, while Ganesh acted as the scribe. Yet all of this does not go far in the way of convincing the scholars that the entirety of the Vedas and Puranas, the most voluminous body of literature known to humanity, should be attributed to one person that the devotees considered was empowered by God, if not God himself.

 

Better we cite the example of Srila Prabhupada, who in twelve years while circling the globe constantly, opened over 108 temples, staffed them with trained priests, initiated thousands of disciples whose correspondence with him alone gave rise to enough letters in response to fill six hardbound volumes. This he did and more all in the course of writing the fifty plus books already mentioned, while seeing to their translation further into numerous languages and their distribution to the tune of 64,000,000 books by the time he left us in 1977. As he liked to say quoting Napoleon, "Impossible is a word in a fools dictionary." That we are fools to think that God and his representative must conform to our frame of reference in order to be validated.

 

Understanding God is not easy. Understanding Krishna is still more difficult. It is possible, however, to love Krishna, yet in order to do so we must have some knowledge about him. In the Bhagavad Gita, Sri Krishna tells us something about himself. Srila Prabhupada called this most famous of all Vedic texts the ABC's of spiritual life. His edition of the text, Bhagavad Gita As It Is, has sold more copies than any other translation to date. More impressive than the sheer volume of its circulation, however, is the number of persons who, having read it, became devotees of Krishna themselves.

 

Whenever Srila Prabhupada met someone familiar with the Gita, he was quick to ask if such persons knew the conclusion of the text. From the editions they had read, most of these persons had not realized there was a conclusion. Indeed there is, and it is 'man manah bhava mad bhakto', Krishna instructs us, "Fix your mind upon me, become my devotee," this is the most confidential knowledge.

 

Out of more than fifty available translations that I am aware of, I know of no persons who, having become devotees of Sri Krishna, attribute their conversion to or inspiration for devotional life of Krishna bhakti to any of these translations. Yet I know thousands of devotees who are quick to point to Srila Prabhupada's edition as a major factor in the unfolding of their 'sraddha', their faith.

 

Srila Prabhupada's phrase, "As It Is", which he attached to the title of his Gita edition is significant. Being acquainted with the Gita's speaker on the intimate terms Sri Krishna lays down as the 'adhikari' or qualification for entering the mystery of the text, Srila Prabhupada, as a friend and devotee, 'bhakto si me sakha ceti', knew in effect the mind of Krishna when he spoke the Gita. If we know someone intimately, when they speak we will understand the intentions behind their words. Knowing the mind of the author is the most comprehensive means of understanding that which he or she writes.

 

It is this approach to understanding the Bhagavatam that Sri Jiva Goswami four plus centuries ago adopted to penetrate the mystery of Srimad Bhagavatam in his treatise on the same entitled Tattva sandarbha. Therein Sri Jiva has demonstrated the clear and indisputable means to sort out the essential message of all revealed scripture ?examining the mind of its author (Vyasa), revealed as it is within the essence of all revealed scripture, Srimad Bhagavatam. Srila Prabhupada's term, As It Is, thus follows the lead of none other than the immortal Jiva Goswami, the greatest philosopher in Indian religious history, if not the world over.

 

Sri Gita leads us to the Bhagavatam, and the Bhagavata to the Sri Caitanya Caritamrita. Thus Srila Prabhupada called the Bhagavatam and the life and precepts of Sri Caitanya found in Caitanya Caritamrita the graduate and post graduate studies of Krishna consciousness respectively. Although the Bhagavatam is the most important work for the Gaudiya Vaishnavas, Caitanya Caritamrita brings out the deepest meaning of the Bhagavatam, as do the other works of the legendary Six Goswamis of Vrindavana and their followers. Srila Prabhupada rendered the immortal Caitanya Caritamrita into seventeen English volumes. Just how they came into print is significant in terms of the influence Srila Prabhupada had over his disciples.

 

Srila Prabhupada had completed his translation of Caitanya Caritamrita, yet his disciples had not managed to publish a single volume of the work due to preoccupation with Srila Prabhupada's ongoing translation of the Bhagavatam. His disciples working directly in the field of publishing in Prabhupada's BBT, were producing one volume of Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavatam rendering per month, no small task for a small crew of largely self taught devotee publishers.

 

When Prabhupada brought to their attention the fact that they were falling behind him, his disciples stayed up all night, presenting Srila Prabhupada with a plan for publishing the entire seventeen volumes in nine months, two volumes per month. They planned to continue to publish at the same time one volume of Prabhupada's Bhagavatam translation per month. This was indeed ambitious. Srila Prabhupada, however, was not satisfied with this plan.

 

When he heard all seventeen volumes would be published in nine months, two books per month, he replied "I want all books in two months." Flabbergasted, his disciples surprised no one more than themselves when they accomplished this task, imbibing the spiritual power to do so from Srila Prabhupada's order itself.

 

Other than the books already mentioned, Srila Prabhupada also gave us a summary study of Srila Rupa Goswami' s magnus opus, Bhaktirasamrita-sindhu. This work is based squarely upon the Srimad Bhagavatam's rasa theology. The text discusses at length the abhideya or means by which love of Krishna can be realized. Prabhupada appropriately termed it the science of bhakti yoga. It is indeed the original handbook of devotional life, and thus indispensable for anyone who cares to tread the bhakti marg.

 

Beginning with a generic description of bhakti, followed by a lengthy discussion of vaidhi and then raganuga sadhana, Rupa Goswami delineates his theory of bhakti rasa, aesthetic experience in transcendence. In doing so he supports all of his rasa theology, in which the object of all aesthetic experience or love is Sri Krishna, with examples primarily from Srimad Bhagavatam. He thus demonstrates that the notion of Krishna is not a sectarian one, rather "Krishna" means the perfect object of love.

 

And it is because the absolute is such that he is depicted and indeed appears eternally in the particular form that he does, head adorned with peacock feather, complexion like that of the monsoon rain cloud, bearing the flute as his constant companion. Acquaintance with Indian aesthetic theory and Vedanta philosophy as taught by Srila Rupa Goswami and represented by Srila Prabhupada in his Nectar of Devotion summary study reveals that, were one to enter all that the perfect object of love would embody into one's computer, the print out would be the two syllables 'kr- sna', the asraya or ultimate shelter for all described in Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

While Srila Prabhupada completed his Gita edition, the Caitanya Caritamrita, Bhaktirasamrita-sindhu summary study, and a host of lesser works, as mentioned earlier, he did not complete his translation and commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam. Falling ill in the spring of 1977, Srila Prabhupada continued to translate in his labor of love the work that is the foundation of Gaudiya Vaishnavism as well as its penthouse sweet. Srimad Bhagavatam is both a philosophical treatise par excellence, as well as a book of savor, relish, the aesthetic experience of rasa that escapes definition, yet is at the same time the essence of reality, 'raso vai sah'. Srimad Bhagavatam is both Vedanta and bhakti - Bhaktivedanta.

 

While Bhaktivedanta Swami, our beloved Srila Prabhupada continued to translate in spite of his failing health, his disciples world wide distributed his books against all odds, accomplishing with all of its shortcomings in terms of methodology something truly remarkable. As Srila Prabhupada once said regarding the distribution of his books, "I do not think that ever before in the history of the world have so many books about God been distributed in such a short period of time."

 

Living in a spiritual bubble, I for one, and I know I speak for many others involved in the service of distributing his books, never thought he would leave us, not to speak of failing to complete his translation of Srimad Bhagavatam. Yet he did apparently fail to do so, but his so called failure is instructive to us all, and it serves to underscore that which he labored so hard to establish.

 

Srila Prabhupada fell silent in the middle of the Bhagavatam's discussion of the brahma vimohana lila. This lila covers three chapters of the Bhagavatam that are in one sense the most important chapters of the Purana. Although all agree that the 'rasa pancadhyaya', the five chapters discussing the rasa lila of Radha Krishna constitute the essence of the work, without understanding the brahma vimohana lila one can not properly understand the rasa pancadhyaya.

 

It is in the brahma vimohana lila more than anywhere else that the truth of the ultimacy of Sri Krishna is established. This section is thus relied heavily upon in Krishna das Kaviraja's second chapter of the Adi lila of Caitanya Caritamrita, wherein he establishes the supremacy of Sri Krishna above all as well as the identity of Sri Caitanya with Sri Krishna.

 

Understanding the brahma vimohana lila, one can proceed with the required adhikary, 'aprakrita sraddha', or transcendental faith in the ultimacy of Sri Krishna to take advantage of the love lila of Radha Krishna described in the rasa pancadhyaya.

 

Thus Srila Prabhupada's departure from our mortal vision in the midst of the brahma vimohana lila serves to underscore that which he labored so hard to impress upon the world. His message: Love of Krishna is the goal of life. The transcendental relish of madhurya rasa, or conjugal love in relation to Sri Sri Radha Krishna is the zenith of transcendental culture. Yet there is considerable qualification one must acquire in order to take advantage of it.

 

Without understanding Radha and Krishna's love dance by way of hearing about it from the guru parampara, which awakens 'aprakrita sraddha', these lilas will serve only as the uddipina vibhava for a life of lust. Hearing about them through the life and teaching of mahbhagavata the likes of Srila Prabhupada on the other hand, will stimulate the highest love of God.

 

Let us all offer our pranams at his lotus feet on this occasion, and pray that we may be blessed to take advantage of the literary legacy he has left behind. It is not enough to say that everything is in his books. We must read them and more, practice that which they teach. The reality of Srila Prabhupada's greatness will be realized only by those who seek experiential spiritual life, and not mere theory.

 

It is not enough to exclaim 'amar guru jagat guru', "My guru is the guru of the universeMy guru is best." Even if it were so, that one guru could be objectively the "best," and he or she was our guru, pointing this out in words says little to those who can see that such a guru's disciples have themselves not experienced the truth he represents.

 

This is the message of Srimad Bhagavatam, and this is what we are to learn from the person of Srila Prabhupada, the person Bhagavatam. All of us must understand the urgency of the task at hand, take inspiration from the life example of His Divine Grace, and, to quote Srila Prabhupada in a famous letter he once wrote to me, "Take the necessary steps and do the needful."

 

The path of spontaneous love is open to all by the mercy of Sri Caitanya. It is the special message of the Bhagavatam and thus the ideal of all Gaudiya Vaishnava institutions. As many of us here years ago embraced the body of Srila Prabhupada in the form of his ISKCON, let others today embrace the particular mission of their choice.

 

If anyone should raise the objection that the body/soul metaphor I began with is not valid, claiming that it does no apply because the body of Srila Prabhupada in the form of Iskcon is a spiritual one, non-different from its soul, then let them see things in that way.

 

And let us ask them to see the other institutions that have arisen and gained prominence due to Srila Prabhupada's extensive preaching campaign as his vaibhava prakash, or expansions of his own form just suited to express his multidimensional personality in the diversity he so stressed spiritual life was about.

 

And in the embrace of one or another of these institutions, let us unite on the platform of the soul through the common tie we all have to the message of Srimad Bhagavatam, its philosophy and its ecstasy, both in its manifestation in literature and the person of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Swami B.V. Tripurari

 

 

[Guest guest]

***SRIDHARA MAHARAJA AS SIKSA TO PRABHUPADA?

 

SBST speak SP - "why you do not rise his?" (Sridhara Svami). It is not good idea. Idea for administrate "glorifications" SM.

 

"I can refer you to one who is most highly competent of all my god-brothers. This is B.R. Sridhara Maharaja, whom I consider to be even my siksa guru, so what to speak of the benefit that you can have from his association." ~ SP to Hrsikesa January 9, 1969,

 

It is context citation. In this citation SP write - "GO IN GERMANY ( ISKCON ), but AT LEAST go SM.

 

SP very match critiks SM, you has 2-3 citation about nice side SM, but has 5-8 citation about bad sides SM.

 

It is bad wrong idea - "SRIDHARA MAHARAJA AS SIKSA TO PRABHUPADA"

 

Books SM it is some compilation, I am do not belive in purities this books. It books some compilation and attempt use name SM in some political target "followers" SM.

 

SM I am sure be against this mad ideas - "SRIDHARA MAHARAJA AS SIKSA TO PRABHUPADA?" I am sure. He is be humble and reasonable person.

 

Another wrong idea - "SM it is Rupa".

[Guest guest]

Those who not stay in ISKCON do not follow mood Prabhupada. They do not make offences, but they follow another moods vaisnava sampradaya. It is not bad. But they in some sence do not follow Prabhupada.

 

Some gurus ISKCON too do not follow mood Prabhupada. Some gurus ISKCON too follow so called "GM". In first may it is they natural position, in second may be they listen propaganda GM. But any way person may stay in ISKCON.

 

If some do not able this. Then they needs some dialoge with ISKCON and in some time all will be nice.

[Guest guest]

We needs make nice ISKCON and nice GBC. Humility means - we stay in ISKCON and make nice ISKCON and GBC.

[Guest guest]

you cannot make gurus... you are a disciple

 

a disciple can only choose a guru.. not make it

 

if in an organization there's no gurus, we have to avoid it

[Guest guest]

***you cannot make gurus... you are a disciple

 

I am write "make ISKCON, make GBC". I am not write "make guru".

 

***if in an organization there's no gurus, we have to avoid it

 

Any vaisnava organisations has guru. Needs avoiding self-glorifications guru, it is write SP.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

This is Trancendenal subject matter to me.

 

I look at it 'why did Krishna steal the better if He knew Mother Yahosha would be angry?' Nobody knows the answer. If they do then again its transcendental. Endless answers and questions. Unlimited!

[Guest guest]

***I look at it 'why did Krishna steal the better if He knew Mother Yahosha would be angry?

 

He is desire angry Yasoda, and Krisna desire biten (?) his mother. If Yasoda biten (?) Krisna, it is love. She is bite Krisna and krisna some moment time see in eyes (?) Yasoda and Yasode see in eyes Krisna experience so strong love for Him. So strong. She is think - " I am will be never bite me son, he is so nice. " But Krisna joke and Krisna desire anger his mother, them he is make another "bad" thing. Any rasa has some special moments. Then no possible understand who rasa "highe", who rasa "low". It is material. Gopis glory for they surrender for God, not for another.

 

Material world it is wrong reflection spiritual world. In spiritual world all bring only happines, but material world not has any happy.

 

Thancs.

[krsna]

faultfinding vs. self-analysis and self-correction

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaja

 

Jnana-sunya-bhakti. “If You come to judge, I have got no hope. Please grant grace, then I can hope to approach You, to offer myself to make progress towards You; if You become very lenient, not to find fault with me”; but if at the same time, in the same breath, we say, “Why should this disqualified man get any grace? Why should he get some mercy and affection?” That is hypocrisy in us, and that causes a great deal of difficulty within us. It is suicidal.

 

This is Vaishnava-ninda, Vaishnava-aparadha—offence to the devotee. A devotee may be accepted by Him, and gradually he will be purified; but we are very eager to find fault in him. That is most dangerous for our own progress; it is suicidal. If in my case I want something higher, but in the case of others I can't tolerate the same behavior of the Lord, that is a most difficult position.

 

Generally that is the basis of Vaishnava-aparadha. When someone has been accepted by the Lord, and He is gradually purifying him, and we give particular attention to the remnants of impurities and difficulties in him, the result is that all those difficulties will be transferred to us. This is the actual experience. If I especially mark the fault of another devotee, that will be transferred to me. It happens. In our experience and also in the shastra we have seen this.

 

Either from the position of Siksha-Guru or Diksha-Guru one may detect the faults of the students of this line, and help them sincerely to get free from them. Otherwise, if we are attracted by those faults, they will come to us and we shall have to pay for it.

 

It is also warned in the Vaishnava literature that we must be careful about vaishnava-aparadha that comes from the jealous spirit of competition. That jealousy is very detrimental to our spiritual life.

 

So we all must be very careful not to be especially attracted by any defect. If some doubt about anyone comes to our attention we may refer it to the higher authority. But if we make too much of it, either in opposition or in any other way, that will be transferred back. We must know, “My mind is coming in touch with that fault and I am devouring it.” That is being devoured as food, and the contamination is transferred to the critic; somehow it is entering into the mental system of the critic, and it must get its satisfaction there as a reaction.

 

This is like a trade secret of our devotional line. You must be aware and very careful about these practical difficulties in the path of your life.

 

In one word, when we say that we have some devotion, we are not in devotion.

 

Rather, when we can feel that we have nothing, although we have no aspiration for any other thing, at that point we may be making some progress. We do genuinely want something, although we can't clearly understand what; but we appreciate the devotees and the divine scriptures of devotion. When our appreciation is on that side, yet we feel we are bereft, that is a sober and healthy position—so vacant.

 

We ought to remember that although we are negative, infinitesimal parts, we have come forward for a relationship with the Infinite, the Absolute. What price should we be prepared to pay for that? What form does that price take? We ought not to purchase such a thing very cheaply.

 

To serve the devotees will be tangible, and to continue with the devotional practices and program that has been recommended by the scriptures and saints is most important. To go on—that in itself should be our reward. We are reading about Him, we are serving the saints and hearing their words. This is an engagement in itself. If we are thus satisfied, then we have something substantial and that must not be underestimated.

 

Promotion is inevitable if we always try to adhere to the lower duty. Eagerness for promotion is the enemy. That is for pratistha (renown), and that will undermine everything. Prabhupad, Saraswati Thakur, said that imitation arises from the attraction for pratistha or desire to hold the superior position and acquire a name for oneself. That is the great enemy. Don't fall prey to that pratistha, eagerness to hold the higher position. Rather, dainyam—humility, is the healthy sign of a devotee.

 

The mind is concerned with misconception. It is an element of the aparasakti, the inferior potency. That potency is both subtle and gross. Earth, water, fire, air and ether are gross; mind, intelligence and ego are subtle; but they’re all material. Soul is transcendental. And Svarupa-sakti or the Lord’s Personal Potency, bhajana or Divine Service, and Goloka-Vaikuntha are all Supra-mundane and Transcendental—on the other side of the soul, not on the lower side where the mind is located.

 

Mind emerges from the ego, that is, the false ego, and it is made of the exploiting tendency. But Mahaprabhu says, mora mana—vrndavana: “My speculation is on the other side—Vrindavan.” That is not an element of this mundane plane.

 

So there is a pure mind?

 

Properly speaking, the word ‘mind’ does not deserve to be used in this context at all, otherwise everything will be wrongly equated. The residents of Goloka also possess senses, etc., but the affairs of the mundane world are never one with that. The mundane mentality is a product of exploitation, sense-exploitation.

 

We need relief from this mind. We are surrounded by poisonous thought. In the narration of the Tridandi-sannyasin in Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.23.45, all the disciplines are common in that the mind should be checked.

 

Only after passing through the proper stages—sravana-dasa, varana-dasa, sadhana-dasa and prapana-dasa (the phases of hearing, acceptance, practice, and attainment)—then you can preach independently (apana-dasa). Otherwise, only with the help of someone in prapana-dasa can you go to preach.

 

We should have an immovable connection with reality, an absolute conception of reality. Such a stable position is necessary. Invulnerable. A sure position, what is what—sambandha jnaña. Then we shall be able to understand and harmonize the differences that we find in the writings of the Acharyas; what applies where—under what circumstances a particular line has been advised to be taken up, and under what circumstances another has been advised. Practical knowledge.

 

Srila Raghunath Das Goswami, the greatest exponent of the faith of servitude to Srimati Radharani, Radha-dasyam, says, “I wont allow myself to become fascinated by the proposal of the higher level service as a friend, sakhya. Rather, I shall tend always to do the lower service, dasya, the service of the servant. I shall not consider myself to be a high-class servitor and I shall always tend to go towards the lower class of service. But He may forcibly take me to a higher service—“No, you are no longer to serve there; now you must serve in this higher category.”

 

Anartha means "separate interest." Krishna consciousness is causeless, nirguna, it has no end. Nirguna means that the central flow and vibration of Krishna consciousness is eternal. That wave has no end. Any interest which is separate from Krishna consciousness is anartha. 'Artha' means 'necessity' and 'anartha' is that which is not my necessity—that which is opposed to my necessity, being based on separate consciousness and interest.

 

[Guest guest]

Srila Raghunath Das Goswami, the greatest exponent of the faith of servitude to Srimati Radharani, Radha-dasyam, says, “I wont allow myself to become fascinated by the proposal of the higher level service as a friend, sakhya. Rather, I shall tend always to do the lower service, dasya, the service of the servant. I shall not consider myself to be a high-class servitor and I shall always tend to go towards the lower class of service. But He may forcibly take me to a higher service—“No, you are no longer to serve there; now you must serve in this higher category.”

 

Because it IS the highest.

[Guest guest]

but from where receive Tripurari Swami the rigth to initiate disciples?, not from Srila Prabhupada!

[Guest guest]

[q] but from where receive Tripurari Swami the rigth to initiate disciples?, not from Srila Prabhupada![/q]

 

Who says? What do you mean by receiving the right to initiate? How would that right be given? Do you not believe that Srila Prabhupada wants all of his disciples to become qualified to intitate disciples? If someone's preaching bears fruit (awakens others' interest in becoming devotees), what would you have them do? Turn them over to Bhavananda or Hansaduta?

 

And what's the point of asking such a question?

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada empowered all of his disciples to carry out his missionary work when the reciprocal agreement of formal initiation (diksa) took place. The disciple immediately becomes linked to parampara at that point. Each and every disciple is part of a gosthyananda movement of active preachers of the Bhakti cult.

 

Srila Prabhupada instructed many of his advanced disciples that to initiate disciples of their own was not proper while he was still physically present, and the proper method was to introduce such candidates to him, either directly, or to recommend to him such a candidate for initiation. There is no evidence whatsoever that Srila Prabhupada forbade his disciples from accepting their own disciples after his departure from this realm.

 

Srila Prabhupada did, indeed, clearly state that such a decision should come only when he orders the disciple to do so, but such an order is between him and his disciple, much like the order he receives from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. Srila Prabhupada also clearly stated that communication of this type will continue between himself and his disciple after disappearance.

 

So how can we be sure if such a person is authentic? Easy, the same way we decide that Srila Prabhupada is authentic. Engage in the sadhana bhakti process, and follow the criteria of guru-shastra-sadhu. If there is incongruence, then, by all means, doubt, investigate, submissively inquire. But, by all means also, reject the temptation of religiosity where we become a "neti, neti" philosophy, where we only collect absolute untruth, and die with a pocketful of lies.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

As much as I know there are 2 ways to become guru, by the personal order of Krishna or by the order of your spiritual master. tripurari dosen t receive a clear personal order like this from Srila Prabhupada, maybe from Krishna?

[Guest guest]

That tripurari doesnt get the order from Srila Prabhupada. This is a serious misconception by those who interfere with the guru disciple relationship. They refuse to accept Srila Prabhupadas clear statement to the effect that his personal communication with his disciple continues without regard to appearance or disappearance.

 

So we have a whole contingent of nay sayers claiming that Srila Prabhupada is now powerless to give orders to his disciples because he is dead and gone. And these same folks are the first ones to claim that He is still present in Vani, but they dont even have the slightest faith in him.

 

No, there will be no letters from Srila Prabhupada to a governing board stating that such and such has been ordered to accept disciples, but such orders are forthcoming, because he is present in the heart of his disciples. Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[stonehearted]

Ditto what Mahaksha says. What do you think it means to have been ordered by your guru to accept disciples, or anything? Does he have to have some certificate notarized by some ISKCON bureaucrat? I'm sorry, but those who even approach the neighborhood of implying that Srila Prabhupada can't give an instruction to his sincere disciple today, or five years from now, have no understanding of guru and apparently no experience of associating with the guru's vani.

[theist]

 

So we have a whole contingent of nay sayers claiming that Srila Prabhupada is now powerless to give orders to his disciples because he is dead and gone. And these same folks are the first ones to claim that He is still present in Vani, but they dont even have the slightest faith in him.

 

 

Yes it is very strange to watch the antagonism fly back and forth between the ritvik camp and the eclesastics, both acting like Srila Prabhupada is out of the picture and that Supersoul doesn't even exist.

 

The ritviks give the most lip service to his continued presence it just that somewhow he can't make this one particular communication.

 

So much confusion on why didn't Srila Prabhupada clear up this guru question before he left? HE DID!!!! On every page of all his books we learn how transcendental knowledge is transmitted between devotee and aspirant and between devotees themselves. Where is the secret?

 

The thing is if we take the transcendental approach to the matter that leaves no room for us to have any illusion control. It's Krsna's perogative entirely. Because our disease is we don't like that idea, our polluted brains must somehow come up with another arrangement.

 

Where is Prabhupada's certificate of guruship from Bhaktisiddhanta? It's there but not in the form that we may expect and not visible for mundane inspection. It is held in security by the Lord in heart and only revealed to the sincere aspirant. Disciple meets guru by the order of the transcendental system. Weren't we told this early on?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This limbaugh talk gets me all emotional =;-) But Theist makes a real transcendental point here. He states:

 

"So much confusion on why didn't Srila Prabhupada clear up this guru question before he left? HE DID!!!! On every page of all his books we learn how transcendental knowledge is transmitted between devotee and aspirant and between devotees themselves. Where is the secret?"

 

This is the very key to the idea of FAITH in the Spiritual Master. Srila Prabhupada has given his disciples and followers everything, he has left nothing out, he has not forgotton anything, he is 16,108% perfect and complete in his missionary work on behalf of Lord Nityananda Prabhu.

 

It is so sad that so many think that something is missing. That something else must be the key to Krsna Consciouswness. But Srila Prabhupada has given us Goloka Vrndavan, he has informed us of Swarupa, he gives us prasadam, fully tasted by himself, and causelessly distributed freely, without discrimination.

 

Once, when disciples were distributing GM literature through the New Dwaraka Bookstore, Srila Prabhupada was not very pleased. Not because he was selfish or sectarian, or jealous of Tirtha Maharaj, but because His own disciples were showing some of this faithlessness. He stated then that EVERYTHING his disciple needs to go back home, back to godhead, was contained in the INTRODUCTION of Bhagavad Gita as it is. Since I heard Him say this, I try to read this work often. One who has realized this essay, lives it, acts on this realization, such a person is a full successor of Srila Prabhupada. And what does successore mean? That Srila Prabhupada is fully present in such a disciple, as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta is fully present in the vani of Srila Prabhupada, as Lord Chaitanya is fully realized through the teachings of the Goswamis of Vrndavan.

 

When one sits at the feet of a bonafide disciple of Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada is fully present in His vani. This is how Vani works, through those who have tasted the essence of Guru, who represent Guru.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa