Verse 11.47BG explanation needed

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, happily have I shown you, by My internal potency, this supreme universal form within the material world. No one before you has ever seen this primal form, unlimited and full of glaring effulgence.

--

 

This world is external representation of Krishna energy right. I don't understand why its said that Krishna manifested the Universal Form with His Internal Potency.

 

Want help to understand. This is Shiva Prabhu fault I am wondering about all this now.!

[Guest guest]

From Jaiva Dharma

 

"Digambara: What is this visnu-maya?

 

Advaita: In the Candi-mahatmya of the Markandeya Purana (81.40), visnu-maya is described, yogamaya hareh saktir yaya sammohitam jagat: "The potency of Sri Hari by which the entire world is bewildered is known as yogamaya."

 

Digambara: Then who is the goddess I know as Mother Nistarini?

 

Advaita: She is Sri Hari’s external potency known as visnu-maya.

 

Digambara then produced his book on Tantra.

 

Digambara: Look, it states in tantra- sastra that my divine mother is consciousness personified. She possesses full will and she is beyond the three qualities of material nature, yet she is the support of those three qualities. Your visnu-maya is not free from the influence of the modes of nature, so how can you equate your visnu-maya with my mother? It really irritates me that Vaisnavas are so fanatical. You Vaisnavas have blind faith.

 

Advaita: My brother, Digambara, please don’t be angry. You have come to see me after such a long time, and I want to satisfy you. Is it a slight to speak of visnu-maya? Bhagavan Visnu is the embodiment of supreme consciousness, and He is the one supreme controller of all. Everything that exists is His potency. Potency is not an independent object, but rather the functional power inherent within an object. To say that sakti (potency) is the root of everything is thoroughly opposed to metaphysical truth. Sakti cannot exist independent of the object from which it originates. We must first accept the existence of an object that possesses full spiritual consciousness, otherwise accepting sakti by itself is like dreaming of a flower in the sky.

 

The commentary on Vedanta states, sakti-saktimator abhedah: "There is no difference between the potency and the possessor of potency." This means that sakti is not a separate object. The Supreme Person who is the master of all potencies is the one truly abiding substance. Sakti is the quality, or inherent function, that is subordinate to His will. You have said that sakti is the embodiment of consciousness, that it possesses will, and that it is beyond the influence of the three qualities of material nature. This is correct, but only insofar as sakti operates fully under the support of a pure conscious entity, and is thus considered identical with that powerful entity. Desire and consciousness depend on the Supreme Being. Desire cannot exist in sakti; rather, sakti acts in accordance with the desire of the Supreme Being. You have the power to move, and when you desire to move, that power will act. To say "the power is moving" is merely a figure of speech; it actually means that the person who possesses that power is moving.

 

Bhagavan has only one sakti, which is manifest in different forms. When it functions in a spiritual capacity, it is known as cit-sakti, and when it operates in a material capacity, it is known as maya, or jada-sakti. It is stated in the Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.8), parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate, "The Vedas say that Sri Hari’s divine sakti is full of variety."

 

The sakti that supports the three modes of material nature— sattva, rajah, and tamah—is known as jada-sakti, and its functions are to create and destroy the universe. The Puranas and the Tantra refer to it as visnu-maya, mahamaya, maya, and so on. There are many allegorical descriptions of her activities. For example, it is said that she is the mother of Brahma, Visnu, and Siva, and that she slew the demoniac brothers Sumbha and Nisumbha. The living entity remains under the control of this sakti as long as he is engrossed in material enjoyment. When the jiva is endowed with pure knowledge, he becomes aware of his own svarupa, and this awareness enables him to transcend maya-sakti and attain the liberated status. He then comes under the control of cit-sakti and obtains spiritual happiness.

 

Digambara: Are you not under the control of some power?

 

Advaita: Yes, we are jiva-sakti. We have abandoned maya-sakti and come under the protection of cit-sakti.

 

Digambara: Then you are also a sakta.

 

Advaita: Yes, the Vaisnavas are true saktas. We are under the control of Sri Radhika, who is the embodiment of cit-sakti. It is only under Her shelter that we render service to Krishna, so who is more of a sakta than the Vaisnavas? We do not see any difference between the Vaisnavas and the real saktas. Those who are only attached to maya-sakti, without taking shelter of cit-sakti, may be called saktas, but they are not Vaisnavas; they are only materialists. In the Narada-pancaratra, Sri Durga Devi explains:

 

tava vaksasi radhaham rase vrindavane vane

 

In the forest known as Vrindavana, I am Your internal sakti, Sri Radhika, who adorns Your chest in the rasa dance.

 

From this statement of Durga Devi, it is clear that there is only one sakti, not two. That sakti is Radhika when She manifests as the internal potency, and she is Durga when she is manifested as the external potency. In the condition of freedom from contact with the material modes of nature, visnu-maya is the cit-sakti. That same visnu-maya is the jada-sakti when it is endowed with the modes of nature."

 

 

 

"Srimad Bhagavatam, 4.9.7

 

“My Lord, You are the supreme one, but by Your different energies You appear differently in the spiritual and material worlds. You create the total energy of the material world by Your external potency, and after creation You enter within the material world as the Supersoul. You are the Supreme Person, and through the temporary modes of material nature You create varieties of manifestation, just as fire, entering into wood of different shapes, burns brilliantly in different varieties.

 

Purport

 

Dhruva Maharaja realized that the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, acts through His different energies, not that He becomes void or impersonal and thus becomes all-pervading. The Mayavadi philosopher thinks that the Absolute Truth, being spread throughout the cosmic manifestation, has no personal form. But here Dhruva Maharaja, upon realization of the Vedic conclusion, says, “You are spread all over the cosmic manifestation by Your energy.” This energy is basically spiritual, but because it acts in the material world temporarily, it is called maya, or illusory energy. In other words, for everyone but the devotees the Lord’s energy acts as external energy. Dhruva Maharaja could understand this fact very nicely, and he could understand also that the energy and the energetic are one and the same. The energy cannot be separated from the energetic"

 

 

 

From The Bhagavat by Bhaktivinoda Thakura

 

(Bahiranga=external energy or Visnu Maya or Jada Sakti or Maya Sakti)

 

"Bahiranga-shakti:

 

The power that manifests itself on the outer body is, bahiranga-shakti. As there is no quality between the Body and Entity of the Absolute Person the distinctions as between the inner, outer and marginal positions of His Body are in terms of the realization of the individual soul."

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

So the Internal Potency of the Lord acts here in this Material World as Dugra {external}. When something is Temporary its known as External Energy.

 

We are also External but when we go back we come under Internal energy {obviously Srimati Radharani}.

 

So when Krishna manifested His Virat-Rupa Form it came from Internal Energy {His own}. Because Krishna is not external or mariginal or anything. He is above all these so of-cource the Virat-Rupa came from Him. Makes sense now. This is kind of inspiring to know. Thx.

[Guest guest]

Pankaja wrote:

 

 

So the Internal Potency of the Lord acts here in this Material World as Dugra {external}. When something is Temporary its known as External Energy.

 

 

 

No, the material world is eternal. The idea is that when you are temporarily under the illusory conception, then you are under the auspices of the external energy.

 

From a Bhagavatam purport:

 

"But here Dhruva Maharaja, upon realization of the Vedic conclusion, says, “You are spread all over the cosmic manifestation by Your energy.” This energy is basically spiritual, but because it acts in the material world temporarily, it is called maya, or illusory energy. In other words, for everyone but the devotees the Lord’s energy acts as external energy."

 

 

 

Lord Kapila explains the "material world" in the 3rd canto of the Srimad Bhagavata Purana

The Personality of Godhead, Kapila, continued: My dear mother, now I shall describe unto you the different categories of the Absolute Truth, knowing which any person can be released from the influence of the modes of material nature.

 

Knowledge is the ultimate perfection of self-realization. I shall explain that knowledge unto you by which the knots of attachment to the material world are cut.

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Soul, and He has no beginning. He is transcendental to the material modes of nature and beyond the existence of this material world. He is perceivable everywhere because He is self-effulgent, and by His self-effulgent luster the entire creation is maintained.

 

The material ego springs up from the mahat-tattva, which evolved from the Lord's own energy. The material ego is endowed predominantly with active power of three kinds — good, passionate and ignorant. It is from these three types of material ego that the mind, the senses of perception, the organs of action, and the gross elements evolve.

 

 

 

Very interesting, the gross elements and the senses and the mind evolve from the Ahankara, the material or false ego, what does this mean ? It means that this material world is a product of our vision and understanding, in reality everything is God. It is through misidentifying everything that the material world evolves from our false idea of it, in other words the material world exists because we think it does. We see the world as separate objects, in reality everything is fully God. Our senses, our mind, our body, matter, all is God, but our false identifying of these things create the material world, when we stop this false identifying then we live in the spiritual world, same place, different vision.

 

 

 

More from Kapiladeva

 

The threefold ahankara, the source of the gross elements, the senses and the mind, is identical with them because it is their cause. It is known by the name of Sankarsana, who is directly Lord Ananta with a thousand heads.

 

 

 

 

The false ego is identical with the material world because it is in fact causing at every moment the "material world", but in fact, even that is God as well.

 

 

Pankaja wrote:

 

We are also External but when we go back we come under Internal energy {obviously Srimati Radharani}.

 

 

 

No. We are neither external nor internal. We are a separate category, Tatastha or Jiva Sakti. We can come under the control and auspices of the Internal or External. External meaning illusory. When we are in illusion as to the true nature of reality, in the conditioned state, then we are said to exist under the External energy. It doesn't matter where you are physically, it is a state of mind. Change your vision, you change your reality, from the material world to the spiritual world.

 

Pankaja wrote:

 

So when Krishna manifested His Virat-Rupa Form it came from Internal Energy {His own}. Because Krishna is not external or mariginal or anything. He is above all these so of-cource the Virat-Rupa came from Him. Makes sense now. This is kind of inspiring to know. Thx

 

 

 

Yes, then No. The Internal energy is Krishna proper. If we take into account the totality of reality, the totality of God, we have the Internal energy, External energy, and Jiva. The Internal energy is God without any material designations (external energy) and without Jiva, it is God alone, therefore it is called Internal energy. Just like you and your body. Your muscles and nervous system are your external energy, your soul and mind is your internal energy. It is all you, but the part that is purely you, is your soul and mind or Internal energy. ( God's soul and mind are the same.)

 

From Bhaktivinoda's The Bhagavat:

 

(Antaranga=Internal or Cit or Swarupa)

 

"Antaranga-shakti

 

Antaranga is that which pertains to the proper Entity of the Absolute Person. It is also called Swarupa-shakti for this reason. The literal meaning of the word antaranga is "that which belongs to the inner body." Shakti is rendered as "power."

 

 

From Jaiva Dharma

 

"Krsna is self-effulgent, like a blazing fire or the sun. Krsna is like a blazing fire. In the centre of the fire is the cit-sakti (svarupa sakti), it is present in fullness. In addition to the centre there is also a great expanse illuminated by the fire. The same way the Krsna-sun illumines a great area with sunlight. The rays of sunlight are particles of His internal potency (svarupa sakti). Those atomic particles that constitute those rays of sunlight are the individual spirit souls. The internal potency (svarupa sakti) manifests the Krsna-sun planet itself. The sunlight emanating from that planet is manifested by the cit-sakti (svarupa sakti) and the individual particles of light are manifested by the jiva-sakti. Therefore the individual spirit souls are manifested by the jiva-sakti."

 

 

 

External energy is an illusion, it is the Internal energy, or external energy, depending on your vision. Krishna is not "above" the Internal energy, The Internal energy is Krishna, and Krishna controls it.

 

The detailing of the variety within the Internal energy or Cit Sakti i.e Hladini, Samvit, Sandhini, are meant to teach us about the nature of God. But like Bhaktivinoda says:

 

 

"Durga Devi says: "I am Your loving partner in your delightful Vrndavana pastimes in the form of Your internal pleasure potency". We perceive from the statement of Durga Devi that this energy is non-dual. In the transcendental feature, this energy is present as Srimati Radhika and in the material form manifests as the material energy."

 

 

The detailing of the Sakti is important. But ultimately they are non dual. From Sandhini Sakti the form of Krishna is manifest, From Hladini Shakti the form of Radha is produced. But really Sandhini and Hladini are a single Shakti, one energy that is being detailed so we can learn about how God thinks.

 

What is Sakti ? Sakti is the potency, the power/energy of God. God is Sakti. God is energy/potency/power, an infinite field of superconscious multi dimensional energy. Plus the ability to do pretty much anything with the energy-that-is-Him. So God is Sakti and Saktiman. Energy and the controller of the energy.

 

The teachings of Cit Sakti and Maya Sakti and Tatastha Sakti are to educate us. But really everything is part of one Acintya Sakti. There really is no separate Sakti. Just categorizing of one infinite Acintya Sakti. Cit Sakti and Maya Sakti are therefore described by Bhaktivinoda as non-dual, there is no difference. We categorize them as different depending on what activity is being done, and how we perceive reality.

 

Jiva Sakti also is categorized as a unique Sakti, but really it isn't totally different. It is bhedabheda, the same and different. Different only because we are not the whole thing, we are tiny parts of the whole. Everything else but the jiva, is non dual. Cit Sakti and Maya Sakti are the same thing.

 

Whatever form Cit Sakti takes i.e Krishna, Radha, Baladeva, Laksmi, Narayana, Goloka, Vaikuntha, is non dual as well. Cit Sakti is the plenary or complete potency, whatever Cit Sakti produces is complete, or God completely. It is all just different bodies, personas, shapes and forms of the same all pervading consciousness. These are all Svamsa expansions. They are all various forms that the one all pervading consciousness/energy, or Visnu, manifests. They are all Krishna in various forms. That is Cit Sakti. God and only God.

 

 

From Jaiva Dharma:

 

"The chit-potency is Krishna's plenary potency; Whatever she produces is eternally accomplished; the jiva is not so eternally accomplished; when he becomes accomplished by practices (sadhana-siddha), he enjoys bliss like those eternally accomplished entities. The four kinds of confidantes of Sri Radha (to be described hereafter) are eternally accomplished; their bodies are about the same, with slight variations, with that of Sri Radhika who is essentially the chit-shakti. The jivas have grown out of the jiva-shakti of Sri Krishna. Chit-shakti is Sri Krishna's full (plenary) shakti, whereas the jiva-shakti is the incomplete shakti. From the plenary potency are produced complete entities, but from the incomplete potency have grown the jivas as atomic chit. Krishna manifests entities of different types in accordance with the kind of the shakti He applies.

 

When established in His essential chit-shakti He reveals His essential Nature as Sri Krishna Himself on the one hand and on the other as Sri Narayana, the Lord of Vaikuntha."

 

 

Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, Adi lila 4.66

 

"Lord Krsna’s father, mother and household affairs are all displayed in the same visuddha-sattva existence. A living entity situated in the status of pure goodness can understand the form, quality and other features of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna consciousness begins on the platform of pure goodness…Krsna is always all-spiritual. Aside from the parents of the Personality of Godhead, all the other paraphernalia of His existence is also essentially a manifestation of sandhini-sakti, or a transformation of visuddha-sattva. To make this more clear, it may be said that this sandhini-sakti of the internal potency maintains and manifests all the variegatedness of the spiritual world. In the kingdom of God, the Lord’s servants and maidservants, His consorts, His father and mother and everything else are all transformations of the spiritual existence of sandhini-sakti…"

 

 

 

 

From a purport by Srila Prabhupada in the Bhagavatam, he is translating a verse by Baladeva Vidyabhusana:

 

"Lord Visnu has three principal potencies--internal, external and marginal. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has accepted para-sakti (internal potency), the spiritual energy of the Lord, as being identical with the Lord. Thus she is also included in the independent visnu-tattva."

 

In Krsna Sandarbha Jiva Goswami says there are two types of expansions of God:

 

 

"This is confirmed in the Varaha Purana:

 

The two kinds of expansions from the Supreme Personality of Godhead are : 1. svamsa (personal expansions) and 2. vibhinnamsa (separate persons). The svamsa expansions are unlimitedly powerful. Their form and personality are the same as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself.

 

There is not the slightest difference between the svamsa expansions and the Original Personality of Godhead. The vibhinnamsa expansions are very weak in comparison to Them."

 

 

"svamsa-vibhinnamsa-rupe haina vistara

ananta vaikuntha-brahmande karena vihara

svamsa-vistara - caturvyuha, avataragana

vibhinnamsa jiva - ta-ra saktite ganana

 

Krsna expands Himself in many forms. Some of them are personal expansions, and some are separate expansions. Thus he performs pastimes in both the spiritual and material worlds. The spiritual worlds are the Vaikuntha planets, and the material universes are brahmandas, gigantic globes governed by Lord Brahma. Expansions of His personal self - like the quadruple manifestations of Sankarsana, Pradyumna, Aniruddha and Vasudeva - descend as incarnations from Vaikuntha to this material world. The separated expansions (vibhinnams) are living entities. Although they are expansions of Krsna they are counted among His different potencies. (Caitanya-Caritamrta Madhya 22.8-9)"

 

 

 

 

From SRI HARINAMA CINTAMANI by BHAKTIVINODA THAKURA

 

The three kinds of vaibhava

 

Vibhu is perceivable only by the grace of His vaibhava

energies, of which there are three kinds. They are, as revealed

in the scriptures, the spiritual energy (cid-vaibhava), the

material energy (maya or acid-vaibhava), and the marginal energy

(jiva-vaibhava).

 

[Footnote 2 by Bhaktivinoda:] Krsna's cid-vaibhava is a

direct transformation of His cit sakti, His personal internal

potency. The display of cid vaibhava includes His abode, known

as the Vaikunthaloka; His innumerable names like Govinda, Hari,

etc.; His transcendental forms like the threefold bending form

with two hands playing the flute; His divine qualities, so

sublimely pleasurable to His devotees; His superexcellent

pastimes like the rasa dance in Vrindavana and its corresponding

appearance in Navadvipa as the the congregational chanting of the

holy names. These spiritual opulences are countless.

 

Another feature of the cit sakti is the sandhini potency by

which all things exist and are held together as an interrelated

whole, including the relationships of the jivas to the Lord.

 

Similarly, the cit sakti manifests the samvit potency, which

reveals knowledge of Krsna, His energies, and one's own identity.

 

The cit sakti also generates the hladini potency, which

gives rise to the ecstatic bliss of spiritual relationships,

spiritual emotions and their combination in the sweet exchanges

of rasa or the mellows of divine love. All of these transformations

of the cit sakti or Yogamaya (i.e. cid vaibhava and the

sandhini, samvit and hladini saktis) are beyond material place,

time and qualities, being eternally pure and full of bliss. [End

of footnote 2]

 

 

[theist]

He tells Arjuna that he showed him by His internal potency.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I'll read what you posted later on. I have question re: this

 

 

Subhadra is yogamaya. The spiritual energy is called yogamaya. And she has 16 different expansions. Out of these 16 expansions, Subhadra is one. The mahamaya of the material energy is also expansion of the energy of yogamaya; and both yogamaya and mahamaya are equally important to Krishna as much as any government department is equally important for functioning of the government. The police department may be horrible for the criminals, but to the government it is a department as good as university department. Similarly, mahamaya is horrible to the conditioned soul, but to the liberated soul, there is no fear of mahamaya, because he is protected by yogamaya.

 

 

 

--

Regarding your question about Subhadra and Durga, they are not at all the same. Durga's other name is Bhadra, not Subhadra, and Durga's activities are within the material world. Subhadra does not work as Durga. Subhadra is internal energy, and Durga is external energy. As energy, they have a relationship as much as we are energies of Krishna, but the energies are working in different capacities. Although originally the energy is one, by their expansion, the accents of the energies are different, and as we are not impersonalists, this variegatedness of actions are essential for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as much as the government is one but there are multi-departments for management of the government. The education department and the criminal department are all departments of the government. The government is connected with all parts and departments, but the education activities are different from the criminal activities. This is the philosophy of inconceivably simultaneously one and different manifestations of the Absolute Truth.

 

--

 

Ok so this is what it says. But also Jiva Goswami says that Durga is same as Sri Radha. Now anybody would think then what about Subadra She is also sister. So how can Durga {who its said is diff from Subadra} both be same as Radha. When they are Krishna's sister. Whats going on?

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

I read what you wrote. So Krishna Cit-sakta{Internal Energy}

is same as Krishna. Ok this question is complicated don't know how to ask {but sure you've thought of it!}.

 

In Bhagavad-Gita Krishna says He is in this creation and also apart from it when describing His divine potencies 'behold my mystic opulances Oh Arjuna He says'.

 

So do you know what I'm asking?

[Guest guest]

 

 

I read what you wrote. So Krishna Cit-sakta{Internal Energy}

is same as Krishna. Ok this question is complicated don't know how to ask {but sure you've thought of it!}.

 

In Bhagavad-Gita Krishna says He is in this creation and also apart from it when describing His divine potencies 'behold my mystic opulances Oh Arjuna He says'.

 

So do you know what I'm asking?

 

 

 

Krishna is more then the material world, the world you see. It is Krishna, but Krishna is more then just this creation.

 

As far as Subhadra, Yoga Maya, Durga etc.

 

They are all expansions of Radha.

 

From Prabhupada's Cc purport

 

"As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary portions. All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna's pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself."

 

This is not impersonalism. This is the truth. There is God, and the incarnations/expansions of God. Two kinds of living beings are manifest from God. Svamsa and Vibbhinamsa. Svamsa expansions are all God in various guises. Vibbhinamsa are the jivas.

 

Internal potency means Svamsa potency. God's personal or Swarupa Sakti. Whatever beings manifest from the Internal potency, they are God, in one form or another.

 

God is both Sakti and Saktiman. God is the power, and God wields the power. Feminine names are given to various aspects and activites of His power, but they are all Him. Krishna is Sakti and Saktiman, Power and controller of Power.

 

"radha-purna-sakti, krsna-purna-saktiman

dui vastu bheda nai, sastra-paramana

radha-krsna aiche sadaeka-i svarupa

lila-rasa asvadite dhare dui-rupa

 

( Prabhupada lecture on Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 4.96 )

 

There is no difference between the energy and the energetic, sakti-saktiman abhina. Therefore there is no difference between Radha and Krsna. Radha is purna-sakti and Krsna is purna-saktiman, so there is no difference, but, lila-rasa asvadite dhare dui-rupa, to relish the mellow of pastimes two bodies are there, Radha and Krsna, otherwise they are one. So in Vraja-lila there are two bodies, Radha and Krsna, visaya and asraya. But in the form of Gauranga They are one. Radha and Krsna combined together. Krsna assuming the mood and complexion of Radharani appears and that is Gauranga. This is the tattva, and that is a very deep and confidential tattva"

 

 

"radha-krsna pranaya-vikrtir hladini saktir asmad

ekatmanau api bhuvipura deha-bhedam gatau tau

caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam

radha-bhava-dyuti-suvalitam naumi krsna-svarupam

 

The loving affairs of Radha Krishna are transcendental manifestations of the Lord's internal pleasure-giving potency. Although Radha and Krishna are one in Their identity, They have separated Themselves eternally. Now these two transcendental identities have again united in the form of Sri Krishna Caitanya. I bow down to Him, who has manifested Himself with the sentiment and complexion of Srimati Radharani although He is Krishna Himself." (C.c. Adi 1.1.5)

 

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

All these quotes must be coming from somewhere. Can you send me a file? Would be helpful, also since I am PDF Archarya now would be useful.

 

hare krishna ty

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I have gathered them from various places.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

Specific I can read about this.

 

I just found a site with loads of Books.

 

Please