Suicide in Hinduism

[Guest guest]

Is there any Hindu scripture that condemns suicide. I know of several that claim that suicide is one of the highest forms of self-sacrifice. After all there is sati which is theoretically if not always in practice suicide. There are also those that in their quest for enlightment or upon achieving their quest commit suicide through self starvation. It could even be argued that Gandhi tried to commit suicide in many of his fasts that he threatened to do to the death should muslims and hindus continue to use violence. Then there are the black tigers of the Tamil Tigers.

Can we argue that suicide is against hinduism when there is so much evidence to suggest that suicide can be supported by Hinduism?

What constitutes suicide? Is a battle where you are heavily out-numbered, where you believe that there is every chance of dieing but proceed because you believe it to be correct dharma count as attempted suicide? or does the slim chance of survival discredit it from suicide?

 

 

[ShegavichaRana]

under whichever name. Suicide is the incorrect use of the free will that Lord Krishna has given us. Our life span is decided by the Karma of the past birth. Until, the allotted life span is not completed, another material body is not available to us, as suicide forces the soul to quit the body. Thus, the soul wanders without any body in the form of ghosts trying to fulfill its desires. At the allotted end of the life span it gets a new body, but the suicide beig against the will of the God, there is severe punishment to the person, in the subsequent birth. As for Sati custom, many things have been written wrongly by uninformed people. Sati in Puranik period was undertaken by women with their own free will and none forced them. Those who committed Sati of their own free will and who were truly dedicated to their husbands reached Vaikuntha (ref: story of Kantimati). However, in subsequent times, Sati custom degraded as it was forced on young widows, who never wanted to die. All in all, Hinduism never supports suicide.

[Guest guest]

We all know "aham Brahmasmi" meaning I am Brahmana, spirit, not matter.

 

I am not this body. There is another fact dealing with this issue. Because I am not the body, all things connected with the physical body cannot be considered a possession of my spiritual identity. The physical body is the possession of virata rupa, Krsna in His external manifestation. In other words, we may rent this body as a payment for our past deeds, but we cannot claim ownership of the physical form.

 

So, since spirit does not die, one cannot destroy the self, kill the self, burn the self, poison the self, crash the self. But if one destroys the physical body, (s)he is responsible for destroying something that belongs to Krsna. If Krsna provides a body, and we destroy such a gift, then we cannot expect to attain another one, nor can we expect to attain enlightenment after destroying something that Krsna has given us the responsibility to maintain to the best of our ability.

 

Suicide is very touchy, and I do not propose to judge those who, for various reasons, do such a thing. I imagine the thought that comes to one who has done this is "jeez, now that was stupid of me!" But there are cases where insanity causes one to do this, and insanity is a karmic reaction in itself, so we all let the Supreme Lord decide whether to protect or reject one who does such a thing.

 

The story of Chota Haridas comes to mind. He gave up his body voluntarily via suicide because of insanity due to remorse of offending Lord Chaitanya, and was protected by the Lord, allowed to continue His devotional service outside of his body. I know of other devotees who have done this, and I always respect the fact that Krsnas promise to always protect His devotee outweighs any moralistic Karmic implication of doing such an act. I myself would not depend on such protection, especially if my reason was mundane pain, depression, or other misery. You can only hurt so much and then ya die anyway, why chance it? Why come back again to experiance the excruciating pain we artifically run away from because of suicide.

 

Actually, I hate suicide, and think it is the most selfish act one can do to another. The pain suffered by the ones left behind is horrible, and if one uses suicide as a threat to gain sympathy, it never works, as my apallment is the only thing that is increased.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[shambu]

In reply to:

 

—What constitutes suicide? Is a battle where you are heavily out-numbered, where you believe that there is every chance of dieing but proceed because you believe it to be correct dharma count as attempted suicide? or does the slim chance of survival discredit it from suicide?—

 

For a member of the Ksatriya order, to die on the battlefield for a just cause, is part of their duty, or dharma.

 

"Oh son of Kunti, either you will be killed on the battlefield and attain the heavenly planets, or you will conquer and enjoy the earthly kingdom. Therefore, get up with determination and fight." [bG 2.38]

 

In the Purport AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada remarks:

 

"EVEN THERE WAS NO CERTAINTY OF VICTORY for Arjuna's side, he still had to fight; for, even being killed there, he could be elevated into the heavenly planets."

 

"In the battlefield, a king or ksatriya, while fighting another king envious of him, is eligible for achieving heavenly planets after death, as the brahmanas also attain the heavenly planets by sacrificing animals in the sacrificial fire." [Purp. to BG 2.32]

 

"It is said that two kinds of men, namely the ksatriya who dies directly in front of the battlefield UNDER KRSNA's PERSONAL ORDERS and the person in the renounced order of life who is absolutely devoted to spiritual culture, are eligible to enter into the sun globe, which is so powerful and dazzling" [Purp. to BG 1.31]

 

"One who lays down his life on the sacrificial altar, or in the proper battlefield, is at once cleansed of bodily reactions and promoted to a higher status of life. So there was no cause for Arjuna's lamentation." [Purp. to BG 2.23]

 

and:

 

"O Partha, happy are the ksatriyas to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought, opening for them the doors of the heavenly planets. If, however, you do not perform your religious duty of fighting, then you will certainly incur sins for neglecting you duties and thus lose your reputation as a fighter. People will always speak of your infamy, and for a respectable person, DISHONOR IS WORSE THAN DEATH." [bG 2. 32-34]

 

The Purport to this final verse concludes:

 

"So, the final judgment of the Lord was for Arjuna to die in the battle and not withdraw."

 

So a ksatriya is supposed to happily sacrifice his body in battle, and this is not considered to be suicide or sinful, but on the contrary to be the perfection of his life. Unfortunately there are no more real ksatriyas, like ~Arjuna, nor are there religious or just wars. We should sacrifice ourselves on the sacrificial altar of the Holy Names, and thus become cleansed of all sinful reactions. Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

Haribol. Nice description of ksatriya dharma, but this is not suicide in any way. Even vaisyas and sudras suffer the fate of dharma as well. A hard working laborer, to protect and provide for his family members, has to inflict misery leading to demise of the material body. Every time we look at the new sunrise, death approached.

 

The ksatriya dies from dharma, not suicide. If a ksatriya killed himself with his own sword, now that would be what is spoken of here, not the odds against a successful battle. To give up ones life with such honor is not at all comparable to the dishonor of suicide, where there is no honor, only waste and anti-dharma.

 

General George Patton, the closest thing to a modern day ksatriya (and also intensely studied bhagavad gita, BTW), had a well rounded, and true ksatriya saying. "the object is not to die for your country, the object is to make the other poor bastard die for his". This is ksatriya dharma. A true ksatriya never gladly dies in battle, he gladly kills his enemies, and employs great skill to prevent the death of his own soldiers (unlike the false ksatriya bush the butcher, who only kills his own, and disowns them, refusing to even honor them, etc, but alas, another topic)

 

Haribol, thanks, shambu for your nice points. ys, mahaksadasa

[shambu]

A bad (or actually very good) example of a military officer who declined to do his duty is that of Commander Karremans, in charge of the Dutchbat division of UNPROFOR (United Nations Protection Force) that was appointed to protect the Bosniac Muslim enclave of Srebrenica back in 1996 against the assaults of the Serbs under command of the cruel General Mladic. When they were under attack of the Serb forces and Air-support from French UN-divisions didn't come about, as they had hoped for, they immediately surrendered to Mladic and his troops - realizing they were outnumbered by the enemy - without even firing one bullet. In a personal encounter with his opponent soon afterwards, the named Commander Karremans said: "I am just the piano-player. Don't shoot the piano-player." These words (quoted from "LUcky LUke") were translated to General Mladic, to which he replied: "You are a very bad piano-player." Immediately after this commemorable scene they had a drink together. This was filmed and the images were broadcasted worldwide. The result of this sweet surrender was that about 7000 innocent Bosniac Muslim men were brutally killed by the Serb forces. Long debates ensued over "what went wrong and who was to blame..." I think it would have been better if they had at least tried to do their duty (dharma) as soldiers, namely to protect citizens against danger. Even if they would have all been killed in the battle, that would have been a more honourable plight than to survive as cowards. Am I right? Of course I can also understand that there wasn't such a high level of personal motivation in this case, them being just military personel employed by UN for "peace-keeping purposes," but anyway... Just the idea, you know.

[Guest guest]

 

My aunt once told me a story of a girl accepted Krishna Conciousness and she committed suicide because couldn't stand her parents forcing her to get married.....

 

She died chanting (screaming) the Maha Mantra.......

 

 

So i was kind of wondering her position

[SubashRao]

Above post was mine

[shambu]

I wonder why this girl didn't run away from home instead of committing suicide. She could have taken full shelter of Krsna as her only husband. Family-dharma is pretty heavy in India, isn't it? She could have taken Krsna's advice:

 

sarva-dharman parityajya / mam ekam saranam vraja

 

"Abandon all varieties of religion [or: worldly duties] and just surrender unto me."

 

I do realize that this is the hardest thing to do...but suicide is the other extreme and not beneficial in any way.

 

She must have felt she had no other option.

[SubashRao]

 

maybe she took the meaning of "surrender" in a different way....

 

 

btw this incident happened in Malaysia....

[shambu]

CC Antya 4.1: When Sanatana Gosvami returned from Vrndavana, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu affectionately saved him from his determination to commit suicide. Then, after testing him, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu purified his body.

4.2: All glories to Lord Caitanya! All glories to Lord Nityananda! All glories to Advaitacandra! And all glories to all the devotees of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu!

4.3: When Srila Rupa Gosvami returned from Jagannatha Puri to Bengal, Sanatana Gosvami went from Mathura to Jagannatha Puri to see Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

4.4: Sanatana Gosvami walked alone on the path through the Jharikhanda forest in central India. Sometimes he fasted, and sometimes he would eat.

4.5: Because of bad water in the Jharikhanda forest and because of fasting, Sanatana Gosvami contracted a disease that made his body itch. Thus he was afflicted with itching sores from which fluid oozed.

4.6: In disappointment, Sanatana Gosvami considered, "I am of a low caste, and my body is useless for devotional service.

4.7: "When I go to Jagannatha Puri, I shall not be able to see Lord Jagannatha, nor shall I always be able to see Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

4.8: "I have heard that the residential quarters of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu are near the temple of Jagannatha. But I shall not have the power to go near the temple.

4.9: "The servants of Lord Jagannatha generally move about tending to their duties, but if they touch me I shall be an offender.

4.10: "Therefore if I sacrifice this body in a good place, my unhappiness will be mitigated and I shall attain an exalted destination.

4.11: "During the Rathayatra festival, when Lord Jagannatha comes out of the temple, I shall give up this body under the wheel of His car.

4.12: "After seeing Lord Jagannatha, I shall give up my body under the wheel of the car in the presence of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This will be the highest benediction of my life."

4.13: Having made this resolution, Sanatana Gosvami went to Nilacala, where he asked directions from people and approached the residence of Haridasa Thakura.

4.14: He offered his respects to the lotus feet of Haridasa Thakura, who knew him and thus embraced him.

4.15: Sanatana Gosvami was very eager to see the lotus feet of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Therefore Haridasa Thakura said, "The Lord is coming here very soon."

4.16: At that very moment, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, after visiting the temple of Jagannatha to see the offering of upala-bhoga [morning refreshments], came with His other devotees to see Haridasa Thakura.

4.17: Seeing Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, both Haridasa Thakura and Sanatana Gosvami immediately fell flat like rods to offer obeisances. The Lord then lifted Haridasa and embraced him.

4.18: Haridasa Thakura said to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, "Here is Sanatana Gosvami offering his obeisances." Seeing Sanatana Gosvami, the Lord was greatly surprised.

4.19: When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu came forward to embrace him, Sanatana backed away and spoke as follows.

4.20: "My Lord, please do not touch me. I fall at Your lotus feet. I am the lowest of men, having been born of a low caste. Besides that, I have infections on my body."

4.21: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, however, embraced Sanatana Gosvami by force. Thus the moisture oozing from the itching sores touched the transcendental body of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

4.22: The Lord introduced all the devotees to Sanatana Gosvami, who offered his respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of them all.

4.23: The Lord and His devotees sat on a raised platform, and below that sat Haridasa Thakura and Sanatana Gosvami.

4.24: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu inquired from Sanatana about news of his well-being. Sanatana replied, "Everything is auspicious because I have seen Your lotus feet."

4.25: When the Lord asked about all the Vaisnavas at Mathura, Sanatana Gosvami informed Him of their good health and fortune.

4.26: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu informed Sanatana Gosvami, "Srila Rupa Gosvami was here for ten months. He left for Bengal just ten days ago.

4.27: "Your brother Anupama is now dead. He was a very good devotee who had firm conviction in Raghunatha [Lord Ramacandra]."

4.28: Sanatana Gosvami said, "I was born in a low family, for my family commits all kinds of irreligious acts that violate the scriptural injunctions.

4.29: "My Lord, without hatred for my family You have accepted me as Your servant. Only by Your mercy is there good fortune in my family.

4.30: "From the very beginning of his childhood, my younger brother Anupama was a great devotee of Raghunatha [Lord Ramacandra], and he worshiped Him with great determination.

4.31: "He always chanted the holy name of Raghunatha and meditated upon Him. He continuously heard about the activities of the Lord from the Ramayana and chanted about them.

4.32: "Rupa and I are his elder brothers. He stayed with us continuously.

4.33: "He heard Srimad-Bhagavatam and talks about Lord Krsna with us, and both of us examined him.

4.34: "'Dear Vallabha,' we said, 'please hear from us. Lord Krsna is supremely attractive. His beauty, sweetness and pastimes of love are without limit.

4.35: "'Engage yourself in devotional service to Krsna with the two of us. We three brothers shall stay together and enjoy discussing the pastimes of Lord Krsna.'

4.36: "In this way we spoke to him again and again, and because of this persuasion and his respect for us, his mind turned somewhat toward our instructions.

4.37: "Vallabha replied, 'My dear brothers, how can I disobey your orders? Initiate me into the Krsna mantra so that I may perform devotional service to Lord Krsna.'

4.38: "After saying this, at night he began to think, 'How shall I give up the lotus feet of Lord Raghunatha?'

4.39: "He stayed up all night and cried. In the morning, he came to us and submitted the following plea.

4.40: "'I have sold my head at the lotus feet of Lord Ramacandra. I cannot take it away. That would be too painful for me.

4.41: "'The two of you please be merciful to me and order me in such a way that life after life I may serve the lotus feet of Lord Raghunatha.

4.42: "'It is impossible for me to give up the lotus feet of Lord Raghunatha. When I even think of giving them up, my heart breaks.'

4.43: "Upon hearing this, we each embraced him and encouraged him by saying, 'You are a great saintly devotee, for your determination in devotional service is fixed.' In this way we praised him.

4.44: "My dear Lord, the family upon which You bestow even a little mercy is always fortunate, for such mercy makes all miseries disappear."

4.45: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "There was a similar incident concerning Murari Gupta. Formerly I examined him, and his determination was similar.

4.46: "Glorious is that devotee who does not give up the shelter of his Lord, and glorious is that Lord who does not abandon His servant.

4.47: "If by chance a servant falls down and goes somewhere else, glorious is that master who captures him and brings him back by the hair.

4.48: "It is very good that you have arrived here. Now stay in this room with Harida¯sa Thakura.

4.49: "Both of you are expert in understanding the mellows of Lord Krsna's devotional service. Therefore you should both continue relishing the taste for such activities and chanting the Hare Krsna maha-mantra."

4.50: Having said this, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu got up and left, and through Govinda He sent prasadam for them to eat.

4.51: In this way, Sanatana Gosvami stayed under the care of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He would see the wheel on the pinnacle of the Jagannatha temple and offer respectful obeisances.

4.52: Every day Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu would go there to meet these two stalwart devotees and discuss topics of Krsna with them for some time.

4.53: The offerings of prasadam in the temple of Lord Jagannatha were of the highest quality. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu would bring this prasadam and deliver it to the two devotees.

4.54: One day when the Lord came to meet them, He suddenly began speaking to Sanatana Gosvami.

4.55: "My dear Sanatana," He said, "if I could attain Krsna by committing suicide, I would certainly give up millions of bodies without a moment's hesitation.

4.56: "YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT ONE CANNOT ATTAIN KRSNA SIMPLY BY GIVING UP THE BODY. Krsna is attainable by devotional service. There is no other means for attaining Him.

4.57: "Acts such as suicide are influenced by the mode of ignorance, and in ignorance and passion one cannot understand who Krsna is.

4.58: "Unless one discharges devotional service, one cannot awaken one's dormant love for Krsna, and there is no means for attaining Him other than awakening that dormant love.

4.59: [The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, said:] "My dear Uddhava, neither through astanga-yoga [the mystic yoga system for controlling the senses], nor through impersonal monism or an analytical study of the Absolute Truth, nor through study of the Vedas, nor through austerities, charity or acceptance of sannyasa can one satisfy Me as much as by developing unalloyed devotional service unto Me."

4.60: "MEASURES LIKE SUICIDE ARE CAUSES FOR SIN. A DEVOTEE NEVER ACHIEVES SHELTER AT KRSNA'S LOTUS FEET BY SUCH ACTIONS.

4.61: "Because of feelings of separation from Krsna, an exalted devotee sometimes wants to give up his life. By such ecstatic love, however, one attains the audience of Krsna, and at that time he cannot give up his body.

4.62: "One who is deeply in love with Krsna cannot tolerate separation from the Lord. Therefore such a devotee always desires his own death.

4.63: "'O lotus-eyed one, great personalities like Lord Siva desire to bathe in the dust of Your lotus feet to drive away ignorance. If I do not get the mercy of Your Lordship, I shall observe vows to reduce the duration of my life, and thus I shall give up bodies for hundreds of births if it is possible to get Your mercy in that way.'

4.64: "'O dear Krsna, by Your smiling glances and melodious talk, You have awakened a fire of lusty desire in our hearts. Now You should extinguish that fire with a stream of nectar from Your lips by kissing us. Kindly do this. Otherwise, dear friend, the fire within our hearts will burn our bodies to ashes because of separation from You. Thus by meditation we shall claim shelter at Your lotus feet.'"

4.65: Caitanya Mahaprabhu told Sanatana Gosvami, "Give up all your nonsensical desires, for they are unfavorable for getting shelter at the lotus feet of Krsna. Engage yourself in chanting and hearing. Then you will soon achieve the shelter of Krsna without a doubt.

4.66: "A person born in a low family is not unfit for discharging devotional service to Lord Krsna, nor is one fit for devotional service simply because he is born in an aristocratic family of brahmanas.

4.67: "Anyone who takes to devotional service is exalted, whereas a nondevotee is always condemned and abominable. Therefore in the discharge of devotional service to the Lord, there is no consideration of the status of one's family.

4.68: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, is always favorable to the humble and meek, but aristocrats, learned scholars and the wealthy are always proud of their positions.

4.69: "'One may be born in a brahmana family and have all twelve brahminical qualities, but if in spite of being thus qualified he is not devoted to the lotus feet of Lord Krsna, who has a navel shaped like a lotus, he is not as good as a candala who has dedicated his mind, words, activities, wealth and life to the service of the Lord. Simply to take birth in a brahmana family or to have brahminical qualities is not sufficient. One must be a pure devotee of the Lord. Thus if a svapaca, or candala, is a devotee, he delivers not only himself but his entire family as well, whereas a brahmana who is not a devotee but simply has brahminical qualifications cannot even purify himself, what to speak of his family.'

4.70: "Among the ways of executing devotional service, the nine prescribed methods are the best, for these processes have great potency to deliver Krsna and ecstatic love for Him.

4.71: "Of the nine processes of devotional service, the most important is to always chant the holy name of the Lord. If one does so, avoiding the ten kinds of offenses, one very easily obtains the most valuable love of Godhead."

4.72: After hearing this, Sanatana Gosvami was exceedingly astonished. He could understand, "My decision to commit suicide has not been greatly appreciated by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

4.73: Sanatana Gosvami concluded, "Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who knows everything — past, present and future — has forbidden me to commit suicide." He then fell down, touching the lotus feet of the Lord, and spoke to Him as follows.

[SubashRao]

 

Very nice post Shambuji...and enlightning too...

 

Hope anyone with the intention of suiciding will change their mind after reading the post....