I want to know the truth

[Guest guest]

I want to know the truth, the eternal truth. Happiness is within us and I want that happiness. Only God can give me happiness. Sometimes I become doubtful of things like soul etc although I feel that there is a superior power than us. So I belive in God. But sometimes I become doubtful about souls, the yugas etc. It seems that dinosours existed 65 million years ago and the hindu scriptures do not mention anything about it. Can you advice.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

The dinosaurs are from previous Yugas as far as I know. For some reason their bones are being found but not humans. 65 million year old human? Why not? I think its because human bones are different. Usually previous people were cremated. I am not sure at what temp bones disintegrate for both.

 

I think all this stems from lack of faith. We never think about the Sun ever not existing its always been there {who said that!}. Same for us we think we have always been here. And each person thinks the same. Even dogs are masters when they get together. They say Birds are descended from Dinosaurs. And Humans are descended from monkeys. So does this mean the Dinosaurs came 1st? mmmm

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

{to the experts}

 

 

 

tdsingh@binstitute.org

 

http://www.binstitute.org/contact/

Hare Krishna

My Name if Pankaja Dasa from the United Kingdom. I have been for many years wondering about where Dinosaurs came from. Of-cource being a Krishna devotee..

My question is if you would be very kind to answer in full.

Why are bones of Dinosaurs found to be existing in this Yuga, when human remains of previous Yugas {?} cannot be found. Older than 64 million years.

Are the bone composition of humans different to that of animals namely dinosaurs.

I maybe will have more questions, please wrtie me reply as I don't have much funds to purchase books. I already have Bhagavatam I just got so..

Hare Krishna Thankyou

 

--

 

I'll post if I get reply!

[ShegavichaRana]

Many of us could have worn those those dinosaurs bodies then!!! Are the scriptures meant for guiding us towards final emancipation or salvation or teaching us about chemistry, physics, palaeontology, geology etc.? Only those matters that were immediatley connected with human life, devlopement are discussed with the particular focus on the spiritual progress of the humans. I have also heard that there is a mention about the Foot and Mouth desease of the cows and a remedy for the same in Vedas, but it becomes quite obvious, as tending of cows and the milk products were abundantly used then.

When one is making a transition through, Bandha, Mumukshu, Sadhaka and Sidhdha these stages, only during the initial stages one gets lot many doubts. But they slowly melt away by steady devotion. Many of us are going through those initial stages right now.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

"Many of us are going through those initial stages right now."

 

But its for us to see that these doubts are rid of. I want a complete explanation.

 

 

Morning Walk

--

July 12, 1976, New York

 

Tamala Krsaa: Is it true that there were big dinosaur bodies?

Prabhupada: If they were, it is still now.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, wow.

Prabhupada: We don't say it is extinct.

-----------------

[theist]

If the "hindu" scriptures were inaccurate on the details of yugas etc. would this have any bearing on if God existed or not?

 

 

Yes they have found some old bones of some animals. So? Is that really such a valuable thing to find? Some old animal bones?

 

For certain the paleotonlogists will never uncover the self on one of their dusty digs.

 

Myself I don't care about the cosmology of the veda's vs. modern astronomy or any attempt to explain the history of mankind. 'We came from God' is that one essential truth that I will hang on to. "Maybe" is good enough for me on everything else concerning the details of this universe. I'll "die" again not really knowing just like I have so many millions of times before. But just let me know God this time.

 

 

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

Not so much significant. But interesting. I used to like this subject before I came to KC. When I was young {whenever} I went to the Book place I would look up these books and stuff on space. But over the years my interest has diminished. I am more a faithful person to God, or well don't know how to put it. Who cares how the Universe came about or Dinos, I just want to see Krishna playing sweet flute. But then again I still want to know. I am beggining to sound like you. I think I just noticed that me and you are kinda the same. {I think}! No offence.

[Guest guest]

turn to dust too. The only dinosaur bones ever found are petrified because of no moisture, or buried in peat bogs. Humans dont hang out in peat bogs, at least I dont.

[SubashRao]

<font color="blue">PAMHO</font color>

 

I think this topic is worth to be discussed...

 

I say this because in this material world it is very hard to convince people who are very much engaged in material science to believe the scriptures,vedas and puranas....people are in ignorance.....even if one believes in god..but still it is very hard to make people believe in ancient texts....

 

I think the poster of this topic having the same problem....when the bones of the dinosaurs (aged 65 million years) are laid in front of somebody as proof sure he will have doubts with the old texts...

 

So I think it will be best if devotees could prove the scriptures are true so that the scriptures can be accepted by this yuga's people and have some enlightment...

 

You can't just ask somebody to believe in the scriptures without showing them how true the scriptures are...

 

No offence please...just my opinion..

 

 

 

[shambu]

I was wondering about dragons... In practically all cultures amongst all peoples of the world we find stories and descriptions about these fantastic beasts. Sometimes they have one head, sometimes more, up to seven even, and sometimes they are said to spit fire. Are these the product of mere phantasy? They could be the reflection of some collective memory stored in the mind of mankind from the time that dinosaurs were roaming the earth. Some terrifying creatures they must have been... And big too..... But are these stories also going around in India? And if not, why is this so? Are they typical for asuric people only? He he.... I even tried to look up the word "dragon" in a Sanskrit dictionary, but to no avail. Collective human subconsciousness non-including India?

[Guest guest]

So

 

Do I believe whatz in the scriptures or not believe. Till yesterday..I had so much of faith in all these things.I could feel God's presence most of the time and also when chanting mantras and stotras. It was on one of the episodes on National Geographic I saw, I become doubtful. I want to believe in the scriptures etc, but my mind is not allowing me to do so. It is creating doubts and carrying me away from GOD. I cannot be happy without God. I do belive in GOD, my doubts regarding the scrpitures.

[theist]

 

Not so much significant. But interesting.

 

 

Yes, that is what I mean. I don't at all suggest that one should not learn and discuss these things and just stick their heads in old texts if that is not their inclination.

 

In fact this morning I just saw some interesting show on star birth. Very cool pictures and interesting thoughts as far as I could follow. It seems there were these dark spots in the universe that the most power telescopes could not penetrate. they were then considered to be "holes" were nothing was. Later they determined these were actually gaseous clouded in areas that they just couldn't see through. So they developed and employed infrared scopes, and that worked revealing on the other side that young stars were developing from the gasous material. Absolutely astounding stuff. I never really think of stars beginning. It's like they are just always there. But even this whole universe begins and ends. And it all points the awesome nature of Vishnu. To me that show was Bhagavatam class. Not because the facts were right. I can't even understand the details. Just because it awes me and we can connect it up to Vishnu.

 

To me its not should we approach these subjects or not its how we approach. None of these things should be deciding factors on where we place our faith.

 

Like the moon flap years ago that still kicks around today. People stopped chanting Hare Krsna over where the moon really was in the sky and if men went there our not.

 

I really don't care where it is, the amazing thing is that it is even there in the first place, and placed there by a person no less. What is the nature of the person that could do such a thing?

 

 

I think I just noticed that me and you are kinda the same. {I think}! No offence.

 

 

LOL you are so funny. Of course no offence. Some day we will sense that we are alike with every living being. Of the same nature, parts of Krsna.

 

I find your intense interest in Krsna conscious subject matter inspiring.

[theist]

 

Humans dont hang out in peat bogs, at least I dont.

 

 

lol me either man. Deep caves,deep ocean, deep jungles,antartica and peat bogs are all on my no go list.

 

[theist]

 

 

I think this topic is worth to be discussed...

 

 

sure, me too.

 

 

I say this because in this material world it is very hard to convince people who are very much engaged in material science to believe the scriptures,vedas and puranas....people are in ignorance.....even if one believes in god..but still it is very hard to make people believe in ancient texts....

 

I think the poster of this topic having the same problem....when the bones of the dinosaurs (aged 65 million years) are laid in front of somebody as proof sure he will have doubts with the old texts...

 

So I think it will be best if devotees could prove the scriptures are true so that the scriptures can be accepted by this yuga's people and have some enlightment...

 

You can't just ask somebody to believe in the scriptures without showing them how true the scriptures are...

 

No offence please...just my opinion..

 

 

Another one. Prabhu, if you knew who I was you wouldn't even worry about offending me. I offend myself all day long by forgetting Krsna, so what can anyone else say to insult me. People who are easily offended by another point of view really have a problem. Wait..Are you saying I got a problem or something?!

 

Just kidding. I am in an unusually happy mood this morning.

 

Besides disagreement is not offensive, its stimulating.'Nuf said.

 

Here is a question I believe we all should ponder.

 

What if some of those stories in the Puranas and old texts are just allegories and parables and we take them literally and then try to preach them as being literal to the scientific community?

 

Do we then run the risk of them not accepting the story and also rejecting the essence of what is being taught along with it? Filing it all in their minds as fairy tale.

 

Maybe we should extract the essence from the Bhagavatam and try to present that in ways that are more understandable to the modern mind.

 

First thing they need to learn is that are not the body. they have given great evidence for this that we can use to illustrate this point. Like the process of metabolism, the fact that matter is constantly changing but we are remaining. That is also Bhagavad-gita but if we just quote gita right off they may not listen.

 

To me it doesn't matter if they have faith in the old texts or not. Just in the essence of what those texts contain. Let them see that essence in the context of that their minds are already formed to assimilate.

 

I'll post a letter from Prabhupada that alludes to this.(after some mint tea /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

 

 

[theist]

My Dear Krsnadasa,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that

vedaham samatitani

vartamanani carjuna

bhavisyani ca bhutani

mam tu veda na kascana

[bg. 7.26]

that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise.

But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King .. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version:

gam avisya ca bhutani

dharayamy aham ojasa

pusnami causadhih sarvah

somo bhutvah rasatmakah

(BG, 15.13)

``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know.

 

[snip]

 

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

[theist]

Why not dragons? Just legends or not I have no idea. But if we can think it can manifest. If not on earth then somewhere there must be.

 

If there can be a T-rex and a Godzilla in our reality then why not a Dragon?

[theist]

So

 

 

Do I believe whatz in the scriptures or not believe. Till yesterday..I had so much of faith in all these things.I could feel God's presence most of the time and also when chanting mantras and stotras. It was on one of the episodes on National Geographic I saw, I become doubtful. I want to believe in the scriptures etc, but my mind is not allowing me to do so. It is creating doubts and carrying me away from GOD. I cannot be happy without God. I do belive in GOD, my doubts regarding the scrpitures.

 

 

I also watch those National Geographic shows. They can also strengthen our faith in God. Please read Prabhupada's letter to Krsnadasa (posted above) on this point.

 

Everyone should read that letter, copy and distribute it so this type of crisis in faith can be avoided in the future. It is unnecessary and I believe harmfull. I snipped out a part on Hitler where Prabhupada said basically "who cares if he was good or bad...." I can post the complete letter if someone wants and has no access.

[krsna]

So we can all see the context more closely.

Thank you

[krsna]

Do you have that quality of character to speak the truth ?

 

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura Prabhupada

 

A chanter of the kirtana of Hari is necessarily the uncompromising enemy of worldliness and hypocrisy. As a chanter of the kirtana of Hari, it is his constant function to dispel all misconceptions by the preaching of the truth in a most unambiguous form, without any influence of person, place or time. That form has to be adopted which is least likely to be misunderstood. It is his bounden duty to op-pose any person who tries to deceive and harm himself or other people by misrepresent-ing the truth either due to malice or genuine misunderstanding. This will be possible if the chanter of kirtana is always prepared to submit to be trodden on by thoughtless people if any discomfort to himself will enable him to do good to his persecutors by chanting the truth in the most unambiguous manner. If he is unwilling to chant the kirtana under all cir-cumstances due to consideration of self-respect or personal discomfort, then he is unfit to be a preacher of the absolute truth. Humil-ity implies perfect submission to the truth and no sympathy for untruth. A person who en-tertains any partiality for untruth is unfit to chant the kirtana of Hari. Any clinging to un-truth is opposed to the principle of humility born of absolute submission to the truth.

 

 

[krsna]

Bhakti is destroyed by the following six kinds of faults:

 

(1) eating too much or collecting more than necessary,

 

(2) endeavours which are opposed to bhakti,

 

(3) useless mundane talks (in the name of bhakti),

 

(4) failure to adopt essential regulations or fanatical adherence to regulations,

 

(5) association with persons who are opposed to bhakti,

 

(6) greed or the restlessness of the mind to adopt worthless opinions.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

 

 

True. Who wrote Bhagavatam under whos order. We all know. It does have all the answers {far as I can see}. The previous guest who said he has lost faith. Listen:

 

you lost faith, even a little faith for Lord Gaura-Nitai is enough. Have a little faith. Like me.!

 

Question: How many layers does this Universe possess?

[theist]

Letter to: Krsnadasa

--

Vrindaban

7 November, 1972

72-11-07

 

My Dear Krsnadasa,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated October 30, 1972, and I have noted the contents. It appears that you are again constantly disturbed by the same nonsense doubts. These things are not very important, we may not waste our time with these insignificant questions. If we are seeking to find out some fault, maya will give us all facility to find any small thing and make it very big, that is maya. But such questions as yours: why there is so-called discrepancy between the views of Bhagavat and modern scientists regarding the moon and other planets, and whether Hitler is good or bad man, these are most insignificant matters, and for anyone who is sincerely convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for him these questions do not arise. Our information comes from Vedas, and if we believe Krishna, that

vedaham samatitani

vartamanani carjuna

bhavisyani ca bhutani

mam tu veda na kascana

[bg. 7.26]

that He knows everything, and ``vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyo vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham,'' that Krishna is non-different from Vedas, then these questions do not arise.

But because you have asked me, I am your spiritual master, I must try to answer to your satisfaction. Yes, sometimes in Vedas such things like the asura's decapitated head chasing after Candraloka, sometimes it is explained allegorically. Just like now we are explaining in 4th Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the story of King .. Just like the living entity is living within this body, and the body is described there as city with nine gates, the intelligence as the Queen. So there are sometimes allegorical explanations. So there are many things which do not corroborate with the so-called modern science, because they are explained in that way. But where is the guarantee that modern science is also correct? So we are concerned with Krishna Consciousness, and even though there is some difference of opinion between modern science and allegorical explanation in the Bhagavat, we have to take the essence of Srimad-Bhagavatam and utilize it for our higher benefit, without bothering about the correctness of the modern science or the allegorical explanation sometimes made in Srimad-Bhagavatam. But this is a fact that in each and every planet there is a predominant deity, as we have got experience in this planet there is a president, so it is not wonderful when the predominating deity fights with another predominating deity of another planet. The modern science takes everything as dead stone. We take it for granted that everything is being manipulated by a person in each and every affair of the cosmology. The modern scientists however could not make any progress in the understanding of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore we do not accept modern science as very perfect. We take Krishna's version:

gam avisya ca bhutani

dharayamy aham ojasa

pusnami causadhih sarvah

somo bhutvah rasatmakah

(BG, 15.13)

``I become the moon,'' and ``yac chandramasi yac cagnau,'' (ibid, 12) ``I am the splendor of the moon,'' and ``jyotisam api taj jyotis,'' (BG, 13.18) ``I am the source of light in all luminous objects,'' so no one is able to give us the correct information than Krishna, that you should know.

Regarding Hitler, so Hitler may be good man or bad man, so what does he help to our Krishna Consciousness movement? But it is a fact that much propaganda was made against him, that much I know, and the Britishers are first-class propagandists. And I have heard that his officers did everything without informing him, just like in our ISKCON there are so many false things: ``Prabhupada said this, Prabhupada said that.'' But we have nothing to do with Hitler in our Krishna Consciousness. Do not be deviated by such ideas ``Jnanam jneyam jnana-gamyam,'' (ibid), Krishna is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, He is the goal of knowledge, and

you mam evam asammudho

janati purusottamam

sa sarva-vid bhajati mam

(BG, XV, 19)

``Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is to be understood as the knower of everything, and he engages himself therefore in devotional service''--this is the understanding of advanced devotee, so my best advice to you is to agree to come to this understanding. Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

 

[mpuri]

Dear Guest, the truth is found in the striving!

 

I found a lot of truth in the Urantia Book, as did I in the Bhagavad Gita and all other major religions.

 

For an interesting view of what was happening on earth 65 million years ago, I suggest you check out the Urantia Book on www.urantia.org.

 

Very interesting in my view.

[SubashRao]

<hr>Wait..Are you saying I got a problem or something?!

<hr>

 

hehehe...no prabhuji..not at all

 

 

<hr>

What if some of those stories in the Puranas and old texts are just allegories and parables and we take them literally and then try to preach them as being literal to the scientific community?

 

Do we then run the risk of them not accepting the story and also rejecting the essence of what is being taught along with it? Filing it all in their minds as fairy tale.

 

Maybe we should extract the essence from the Bhagavatam and try to present that in ways that are more understandable to the modern mind.

<hr>

 

 

Of course the essence is more important....what is the need of presenting some allegories and parables literally?.....It would be best if only the essence is preached.....The problem is, the essence doesn't come alone....it comes together with the stories....so how would someone take the essence accompanied with allegories and parables (I hope the stories are not allegories and parables)...

 

When this is the case then won't the essence be doubted and taken as fictional?...Even if the essence is true...but still for the listener it will sound fictional....and for the worst, we have too many religions and their own scriptures....people will prefer the one which sounds less fictional...

 

So it is better to prove the stories are not allegories and parables...

 

Back to our root topic (Dinosaurs)...modern scientists tell the dinosaurs ruled the earth 65 million years ago...

and we have our scriptures telling about the four yugas...now which one is true...if both are true wat are the posibilities?...if the story of the yugas to be considered as allegories and parables just to explain the essence then we have problem....

 

 

And thanks for the letter prabhuji /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[shambu]

What I was trying to say, was that dragons and dinosaurs are actually the very same thing, the one being presented in the myths and histories of mankind, and the other one being presented in the form of fossiles. Double proof. So there are no descriptions of such things in the Vedas? Pity, there are also no descriptions of them in either Bible or Quran as far as I know, so don't be upset. Should we loose our faith in Sri Krsna or God because holy scriptures fail to mention these things? Are they a fraud just because of that? Ahem.

 

And should we simply deny the findings of modern science or other evidence because they are not in line with Vedic conclusions and close our eyes and mouths, not seeing and not talking? To become blind and numb followers, simply accepting that which is pallatable to us? There seems to be a problem here, no matter how hard you try to deny it by saying: "Oh, as long as I believe that Sri Krsna is Supreme Godhead, which is the esssence of knowledge, I don't care about all the other things. They are irrelevant — let's chant Hare Krsna."

 

Maybe there has to be made a distinction between material and spiritual knowledge as presented in the Vedas. Some things as presented in Vedic scriptures are simply unacceptable for modern man as they seem to be conflicting with common sense and tangible evidence. I could mention numerous examples, but I won't, since we try to focus here on dinosaurs.

 

Modern science is also partially a hoax. There is something like "forbidden archaeology"—things that just shouldn't be there, and for that reason are swept under the carpet. An example of this are the famous Ica Stones of southern Peru. How old they exactly are, nobody knows, but a sure thing is that one third of all of them (there are thousands) depict dinosaurs IN THE COMPANY OF MEN. Please have a look at this and tell me what you think... It's pretty amazing. Check this out:

 

http://genesismission.4t.com/dinosaurs/Ica_stones.html

 

or just enter "Ica Stones" on any search machine like Google.